What needs to be done to help the poor in this country?

[LyLMyssChaos]

I hear it repeatedly said that Republicans don't care about the poor, they aren't doing enough for the poor, they don't understand the poor, etc. So as a republican who VERY much cares about the poor, I am curious as to what people think needs/can be done to help the poor in our country? And how do people feel these things should be implemented/funded? And because there are varying definitions of what "poor" means, for the sake of this thread, let's use the following guidelines:
Federal Poverty guidelines found here (http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Governance/notices/iegs/IEGs01-02.pdf).
1 person $15,892
2 people $21,479
3 people $27,066
4 people $32,653
5 people $38,240
6 people $43,827

[pocket]

Raise the minimum wage.
Universal Health Coverage.
Increase food assistance.
Expand the social safety net.
Strengthen access to family planning.
Expand public and subsidized housing.
Strengthen low-income housing percentages for new developments
Expand public transportation
Universal preschool.
A year of paid maternity like Canada has.
Repeal 3-strikes laws, decriminalize possession
Increase access to job training programs
Improve high school edcuation

For starters.

[curlyjr]

dammit, im legally poor:mad:

[AirForceLove]

It is really sad when one income is $790 every 2 weeks and the other is unemplyment and you still don't qualify for WIC.

[LyLMyssChaos]

Raise the minimum wage.
Universal Health Coverage.
Increase food assistance.
Expand the social safety net.
Strengthen access to family planning.
Expand public and subsidized housing.
Strengthen low-income housing percentages for new developments
Expand public transportation
Universal preschool.
A year of paid maternity like Canada has.
Repeal 3-strikes laws, decriminalize possession
Increase access to job training programs
Improve high school edcuation

For starters.

I understand some of this, but could you explain how repealing the 3-strikes laws and decriminalizing possession does anything to help the poor? And I don't understand how "universal preschool" has any effect either.

Some of these I disagree with. I don't think that we need to necessarily "improve" high school education, I think that for the most part, the teachers and school districts are doing a really good job. I think it's the students that are not attending or paying attention that we need to focus on. I also don't think we need to "increase" food assistance. I was really shocked to find out what the limits are to qualify. My family currently qualifies for all federal aid, and my husband makes $12.50 an hour! To me, that is insane. Growing up, I always thought that people who made what my husband does were "middle class." I envied those people because they always seemed to have so much more than I did. And now I find out that the government considers that to be poor? I think what needs to be done is more education about the programs that are available and what qualifies someone to be a participant. I also don't see how a one year paid maternity leave benefits the poor. I mean, wouldn't ANYONE who had a baby be eligible, not only the poor?

[jennylou]

I understand some of this, but could you explain how repealing the 3-strikes laws and decriminalizing possession does anything to help the poor? And I don't understand how "universal preschool" has any effect either.

Some of these I disagree with. I don't think that we need to necessarily "improve" high school education, I think that for the most part, the teachers and school districts are doing a really good job. I think it's the students that are not attending or paying attention that we need to focus on. I also don't think we need to "increase" food assistance. I was really shocked to find out what the limits are to qualify. My family currently qualifies for all federal aid, and my husband makes $12.50 an hour! To me, that is insane. Growing up, I always thought that people who made what my husband does were "middle class." I envied those people because they always seemed to have so much more than I did. And now I find out that the government considers that to be poor? I think what needs to be done is more education about the programs that are available and what qualifies someone to be a participant. I also don't see how a one year paid maternity leave benefits the poor. I mean, wouldn't ANYONE who had a baby be eligible, not only the poor?

$12.50 an hour, middle class? Hardly.


Things to help the poor:

More funding for public transportation - which would lead to better bus systems. Better bus systems would offer better hours, leading more potential to jobs that are later than many systems operate. Also, they could increase bus service to areas that they aren't serving currently.

More funding for Section 8 tenants - did you know the Section 8 program is rated one of the best programs that the government runs? Also, most families average only two years on Section 8 - it's a helping hand when they need it most. Also, they have a step down approach, unlike so many other gov't programs. When the family income increases, they are expected to pay a higher percentage of their rent.

Universal Health Coverage - Many people find themselves paralyzed by medical bills - it just shouldn't be that way. Even with insurance, people still often have to pay an arm and a leg for said insurance and it still isn't that great!

[Asha]

And I don't understand how "universal preschool" has any effect either.

i don't have the specific research on me right now, but there is a lot of research that shows that good early childhood education correlates with success later in life. this not only includes pre school programs but also early intervention programs to help struggling readers in the primary grades. unfortunately, in most schools a lot of money for interventions goes to the tested grades (usually 3rd grade and up.). studies have shown it is much more effective to catch a child who is struggling with reading and writing in the early stages rather than intervening when a child has been struggling for several years. it's not clear exactly why, but i can tell you from my own teaching experience by the 3rd grade students who have not learned to read are very disullisioned and don't want to try at all. it's very hard to motivate these students to want to better their education even when they are only in the 3rd grade. it is a lot easier to motivate younger students bc they are generally optimistic about school, and they have poor self evaluative skills, so they are not fully aware of how they are doing compared to their peers. this is actually helpful to teachers bc by the time students are fully aware that they are behind their peers, their attitude towards schools is usually pretty poor.

[Asha]

i think we could help the poverty situation by making it advantageous to actually hold a full time job. you're actually better off if you don't work at all bc then you qualify for lots of gov't assistance. if you hold a job, that usually means you make too much money to qualify. i'm talking about people making minimum wage or close to minimum wage. obviously, it is better to hold a job if hold a well paying one, but there is really no advantage to being part of the working poor except having pride that you are working to sustain yourself.

also, i think there needs to be gov't regulations that make parents more responsible for their children's education. the students who i saw succeed had involved parents and the students who were not succeeding had either confrontational parents are parents who were not involved at all. i am not talking about parents having to come in and volunteer. i am talking about making parents bring their children to school on time, monitoring their children's homework, making sure their children get a good night's sleep, and attempting to provide a healthy home env't. you would think that children services are supposed to prosecute parents that don't do this for neglect, but it never, ever happens. the only time i saw it happening in my 6 years of teaching was when a child was 2 hours late, 95% of the time to school. they are so busy prosecuting parents who are physically abusing children, that they don't have the time or resources to prosecute parents on ed'l neglect.

i think "ghettos" also contribute to the poverty problem. i think it would be much better to have subsidized housing distributed through out all areas rather than having these humongous projects clustered together. the children in those neighborhoods don't realize there is life outside the projects.

[philnikki]

LMC - When I was little I thought that was a lot of money too (and 12.50 isn't today what it was back then...god I sound like my grandma! :p )


I guess its all in your perspective. I grew up well below poverty level and I am now above it, all on my own. I have student loans, I have credit card debt, but I am making it work. I think the one key that you need to have is the desire to want more for yourself. If you have that, you will SEEK OUT the knowledge and resources you need to succeed and overcome poverty.

I grew up in West Virginia (one of the poorest states in the nation). My family is also considered poor based on the govt's statistics. One summer, my mom had to pawn a bunch of her stuff bc it was so hot outside and she couldn't afford the $12 for a wading pool for me, my little brother and my little sister. That's poor.

So as much as I think that certain programs are worth it, I think its more about the type of person that you are. I know that a lot of people don't *choose* to be poor,. But there are plenty of people, who through their decisions, do *choose* it. My sister is a great example. She had all of the resources of the Federal Goverment willing to give her loans and grants to go to college. Did she use it? No! She also has been offered free child care for her son. Does she use it and go back to school now? No! She chooses to live in the situation she's in. She knows all of this exists. My mom and I have offered it extensively (as have many many others). You can lead a man to water, but you can't make him drink it.

Anyway, just my experience and two cents. I know that others probably have vastly different experiences and perspectives. That was just mine.

[laurenc]

pocket -- by universal preschool, did you mean more like a universal daycare? or were you thinking preschool specifically? the first thing i thought was "universal daycare".

lylmysschaos -- universal daycare (i don't want to speak for pocket so i'll just explain my point-of-view) would help because it would allow moms and dads with very young children to work outside the home and make a decent living without having to worry about their kids. a universal, government-sponsored daycare system might require workers to be trained professionals with background checks, would be affordable, would have flexible hours... parents (especially single parents) who choose to use the system would not have to be forced into a decision to work or not work. many parents are forced with the decision, do i work a low-paying job that barely pays me enough to cover daycare and my other needs? or do i stay home and go on welfare? or do i work and leave my young kids with a sketchy neighbor or home alone?

and you're right, one year paid maternity leave would benefit everyone, not just the poor -- but, wealthy women can take one-year maternity leaves anyhow. the poor can't. can you imagine if everyone had the option of staying home a year with their new baby?

I don't think that we need to necessarily "improve" high school education, I think that for the most part, the teachers and school districts are doing a really good job. I think it's the students that are not attending or paying attention that we need to focus on.

well, i agree that students need to meet the educational system halfway, but i would disagree that the schools as they are today are just fine. some schools use textbooks that are decades old and either in need of major updating (i.e., history books barely cover the post-WWII era) or are falling apart at the spine. some schools force students to pay for music or sports. some schools barely have lab to accompany science class, some schools don't have enough art supplies to go around, and some schools use computers older than half the people on this board. it's hard to learn when the learning tools you're given are in disrepair (or if you're just not given tools at all). as for teachers, i'll say this much: in many parts of the country, teachers are paid so poorly that the salary is actually a deterrent for many bright individuals. teachers do soooo much -- and the crappy pay that many of them make is an insult to their love of kids and their love of education. i'm not a teacher at the elementary/secondary level, so, i'll leave those who are to comment further.

[Asha]

in many parts of the country, teachers are paid so poorly that the salary is actually a deterrent for many bright individuals. teachers do soooo much -- and the crappy pay that many of them make is an insult to their love of kids and their love of education. i'm not a teacher at the elementary/secondary level, so, i'll leave those who are to comment further.

this is one of the reasons i left teaching. i wouldn't say we were paid horribly, but it really wasn't enough for life in nyc. i made about $40k per year after 6 years of teaching, and that's including extra pay i got by working summers and after school. it's not really bad, but it really struck home that i didn't make enough is that our mortgage company thought my income wasn't enough to be considered for a mortgage of our home in a not-so-great area of the city. also, i considered it too much stress and too much work outside of the school day for the pay i was getting.

i now am getting a phd in an education related field, so i will have the opportunity to still work in the field of education, but work in a job with less stress and hopefully more pay.

[artist]

Raise the minimum wage.
Universal Health Coverage.
Increase food assistance.
Expand the social safety net.
Strengthen access to family planning.
Expand public and subsidized housing.
Strengthen low-income housing percentages for new developments
Expand public transportation
Universal preschool.
A year of paid maternity like Canada has.
Repeal 3-strikes laws, decriminalize possession
Increase access to job training programs
Improve high school edcuation

For starters.

I agree with a lot of this! (I would need to research the repealiong of the 3 strikes law before knowing whether or not I agree, but I do agree with decriminalizing possession.)

I also definitely agree with the importance of preschool and early childhood education! Those early years are so crucial for example for learning how to read. Without getting the basics down in the early years, a 6th grader can end up having the reading level of a 2nd grader. (And that 6th grader will also have classmates who are at the 10th grade reading level!)

I also think the poverty lines/levels need to be revised.


For example...

1 person $15,892
2 people $21,479
3 people $27,066
4 people $32,653
5 people $38,240
6 people $43,827

There is no way in hell DH and I could survive with only $21,479! I realize we own a house which is more expensive perhaps then renting, but even if we were renting, we still couldn't afford that. Combined we made more then that amount when we were renters and it was still really hard to make ends meet. Regardless too of any "luxuries" we may or may not have or have had in the past. I honestly don't think DH and I live that extravagantly, so for the metropolitan area of MN, these figures seem unrealistic. I also cannot imagine us trying to raise a child with only $27,066 a year! (And if we made stlightly more, we would not qualify for assistance?)

So, I would blame both parties for that one. Either political party really could update the poverty line, but neither really has.


More information that I found interesting:

http://www.answers.com/topic/poverty-in-the-united-states

http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2000-04/05dowd.htm

[artist]

Causes of poverty

There are numerous perceived direct and indirect causes of poverty in the United States. They include:

Unfavorable economic conditions
Mental illness
Substance abuse
Poor education
Institutional racism: The gross disparities among impoverished people in the United States along racial lines have lead many to believe that historic and/or ongoing institutional racism is responsible for much of the poverty in the United States today.
Limited job opportunities appear to exist for significant subgroups of some races and ethnic groups. This is reflected by the low-income nature of large sections of the economy, as divided along racial/ethnic lines:
21 % of all children in the United States live in poverty, but 46 % of African American children and 40 % of Latino children live in poverty. (Center for the Future of Children, The Future of Children. Vo. 7, No 2, 1997).

http://www.answers.com/topic/poverty-in-the-united-states

[artist]

Think it doesn't matter though because you are not Latino or Black?

According to the demographic estimates of the US Census Bureau, Latinos will become the majority population of California by the mid 21st Century and the largest ethnic and racial group in the United States.

and...

The majority do improve their living conditions compared to what they had in their homeland but in the context of the US society, they share the same racial and ethnic discrimination suffered by African Americans.

The majority of Latino workers have not benefited from the booming economy. They are the most likely to lose their jobs.


About 30% of Latinos live in poverty.

Latinos have the lowest levels of educational achievement.

Only 2% of all lawyers in the United States are Latinos although they are 12% of the nation's population.

Like African Americans, Latinos are over represented in the prisons.
The dramatic increase of the Latino population has generated a racist anti-Latino immigrant politics in the United States that has resulted in perhaps the most repressive immigration policy in the nation's history.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/americas/2000/us_elections/hispanic_vote/1003642.stm
(Granted, a 2000 source, but still seems relevant)

ETA:
I've heard that Latinos will be the majority in the U.S. by about 2050. (So, this is not just a California issue.)

[LyLMyssChaos]

I do agree that the poverty levels need some redefining. I mean we are taking care of our family of 4 (soon to be 5) with only $1000 more a year than they allow for a family of 3. Do we survive? Yes, but just barely.

[villanelle75]

I agree with Pocket's list, though I think the raise in munimum wage should be very slight at a federal level and only moderate in more expensive cost of living areas. $12 sounds like too mcu to me.

The only one I disagree with completely and strongly is the one year of paid maternity leave. I know this is a huge hot-button issue and I learned my lesson after getting into it on WC (probably more than once. I'm a slow learner. ;) ). So I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

[pocket]

Yeah, I just threw that one in for sport!

[philnikki]

Ok, I'll bite ;)

I don't want to start a debate (alas I probably will), but I have apparently missed it in other threads, and I am curious was to why this is a bad thing? I can think of the economic impacts to businesses, etc, but that's it. Please enlighten me, all that wish to do so!

[pocket]

A few more I forgot - Minimum Wage should be replaced with Living Wage which is indexed to the local economy.

Predatory Lending should be strictly policed.

More programs to help young moms stay in school.

Heating oil subsidies.

Grameen-bank style microlending. I wish someone would do this. I believe there is a huge untapped entrepreneurial spirit among low-income Americans. Outreach, mentoring, training and micro-lending could help poor Americans become entrepreneurs.

Programs that help the elderly with food, housing, transportation and care. Not only are old people more likely to struggle in poverty, but caring for an elderly parent can plunge a family into poverty.

As you can tell, I don’t believe that straight hand-out payments are the best way to effect change and help people lift their families from poverty.

[villanelle75]

I believe there is a huge untapped entrepreneurial spirit among low-income Americans. Outreach, mentoring, training and micro-lending could help poor Americans become entrepreneurs.


I have no idea what Grameen-style mocrolending is, but as for the rest of the quote, this is what the non-profit I work for does, among other things. THere are so many resources out there and ever since i started here I've thought about how sad it is that most of them (includign ours, to be frank) are available only to certain groups and just be being in those groups means most of them are not pivign in poverty. (e.g students). Our eceonomy rusn on small businesses and creating more of them can only help, but we dont' do this on any governmental level.

[artist]

Ok, I'll bite ;)

I don't want to start a debate (alas I probably will), but I have apparently missed it in other threads, and I am curious was to why this is a bad thing? I can think of the economic impacts to businesses, etc, but that's it. Please enlighten me, all that wish to do so!

Why what is a bad thing?

[artist]

A few more I forgot - Minimum Wage should be replaced with Living Wage which is indexed to the local economy.


You can try to get a livable wage thing passed by your City Council. Kind of a challenge, but not as hard as it sounds considering that you only need a few votes from the City Council as opposed to a Referendum the citizens vote on.

[pocket]

The Grameen Bank is a microfinance organization started in Bangladesh that makes small loans (known as microcredit) to the impoverished without requiring collateral. The system is based on the idea that the poor have skills that are underutilized. The bank also accepts deposits and provides other services.
<snip>

The system is the basis for the microcredit and the Self Help Group system now at work in over 43 countries. Each group of five individuals are loaned money, but the whole group is denied further credit if one person defaults. This creates economic incentives for the group to act responsibly, increasing Grameen's economic viability.

In a country in which few women may take out loans from large commercial banks, the fact that most (96%) loan recipients are women is an amazing accomplishment. In other areas, Grameen's track record has been equally astonishing, with very high payback rates—over 98 percent. More than half of Grameen borrowers in Bangladesh (close to 50 million) have risen out of acute poverty thanks to their loan, as measured by such standards as having all children of school age in school, all household members eating three meals a day, a sanitary toilet, a rainproof house, clean drinking water and the ability to repay a 300 taka-a-week (US$8) loan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grameen_Bank

I didn’t even realize that the was a grameen foundation usa! http://www.gfusa.org/

I guess we have finally gotten poor enough for other countries to feel like they need to send us aid. We should be ashamed that Venezuela wants to give us subsidized heating oil, and the Jordan will give money to rebuild New Orleans. Especially Venezuela – when we spend money there it’s to illegally overthrow their democratically elected government. While we spend the money that ought to strengthen our own citizens in devastating another country beyond recognition. USA! USA!

[miel]

Pocket for President!

[pocket]

I understand some of this, but could you explain how repealing the 3-strikes laws and decriminalizing possession does anything to help the poor?

When thinking about how people rise from poverty, we need think about two things: (1) why are people poor; and (2) what sort of things would help people not pass on their poverty to their children? I know these things seem like no-brainers, but if we want to craft good policy we need to have answers. As you know (because you of course have memorized every detail of my life) I work in international development aid. I raise money to fund international poverty alleviation and democratic access. I see development aid as simply a public policy initiative that is funded and run by an extra-governmental organization (foreign government, non-profit organization or international organization (UN, World Bank etc.)

I think that drug policy reform is connected to reducing poverty because I think that sometimes people are poor because they have an addiction problem or at least that if you have an addiction problem that could make you poor. When I look around at the poorest of the poor here in San Francisco, the visible homeless, they are mostly addicts and alcoholics. If you are an alcoholic or an addict, it gets hard to hold down a job. So you work outside the law, in the “informal sector” (just a value-neutral way of saying “black market” or “black economy”). I think drug “prohibition” encourages the growth of extra-legal militias (gangs) just as alcohol prohibition encouraged the growth of the Mafia and Jewish gangs of the same period. These gangs sell addictive drugs to poor people. Our drug policy is a complete failure, and IMO just a BS reason for being involved in nefarious secret politics in Latin America.

There are some policy solutions for alleviating poverty and there are some for ending poverty. Some work, some don’t. But a lot of them do help. Most of the policies that focus on helping people save are not that useful for the vast majority of poor people who are poor because they don’t have enough money.

Wages have fallen and fallen. Minimum wage is so low that if you work at a minimum wage job , you will work all day all year and you will still be poor. You will still live in a neighborhood with low rents and a low tax base because everyone rents. That means fewer municipal services and bad schools and fewer people in your community with the time to advocate for change. If you are poor there might not be enough to eat at your house at certain times of the month. You might not have heat or electricity in your house or it might get turned off a lot. You might not have a safe and quiet place to do your homework. If there is gunfire in your neighborhood and you are hungry, you might not sleep well and that will affect how you do in school.

I just believe that in this country a person who works hard all day should make enough money to survive and raise their family. We are the citizens of this country; we are the human resources of this country. We should be investing in ourselves and our children not mortgaging our children’s future to China.

[SweetRed]

Three words:

Education
Education
Education

(Yes, I am working on my M.Ed. in Community Education.)

The kind of education I'm talking about extends beyond the bounds of formal education and schooling. A few examples:

1. Education about Nutrition: If a family only has $X to spend each month on food, do they know what foods provide the best nutritional value for the buck? Or do they just buy what is cheap and has volume to simply fill hungry tummies? Healthy bodies are better able to work or attend school and/or be less of a burden on our health care system.

2. Education about Financial Management: If a family only has $X each month from either paychecks or assistance programs, do they know how to manage money and prioritize expenses? Or do they just spend until the money runs out and spiral further into economic peril? (This gets into a whole other ball of wax if there are chemical dependencies eating away at funds...) Do they know how to apply for assistance programs for reduced home heating costs or WIC programs? Just because those programs exist doesn't mean the people who need them use them.

3. Education about Parenting: A lot of parents below the poverty line are stressed beyond belief and have little time or energy to give to their children (NOTE: I did not say ALL...) Many of these parents were raised in poverty themselves and didn't have very good role models on how to provide loving, nuturing parenting. Heck, I think this applies to plenty of people above the poverty line...

4. Education about Personal Health: Kind of along the same train of thought as proper nutrition, except that a little bit of knowledge about one's health can go a long way in either preventing illness or disease or detecting and treating a problem early enough. It is absolutely mind boggling how so many impoverished people don't know or don't believe the warnings about cigarette smoking (I wish I could find the study to cite it...) And don't get me started on the ignorance of teens (or preteens) and sexuality.

I'm starting to run out of time here, but my general point is that the more you educate people, the more you empower them with the tools and self-esteem necessary to get ahead. Is it a cure-all? Heck no. Are there exceptions to all this? Sure. But as a fiscally conservative, bleeding-heart liberal, I believe it's better to teach someone to fish than to just hand them a fish every week. You just give them the fish long enough so they don't starve while they're learning.

BTW, pocket, I remember reading recently a Boston Globe article (I think) about a program that was matching money saved by people below the poverty line if the money was being used to start up a business. I really wish I could find that article now. It had several good examples about how people used that program wisely and did well for themselves with small, but decent-paying businesses.

And yes, predatory lending should be banned. But then again, look at The World Bank...