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lawyerlee
02-14-2006, 11:47 AM
U.S. and Israelis Are Said to Talk of Hamas Ouster (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/international/middleeast/14mideast.html?ei=5094&en=d28cff5caa1702fa&hp=&ex=1139979600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print)
New York Times

By STEVEN ERLANGER

JERUSALEM, Feb. 13 — The United States and Israel are discussing ways to destabilize the Palestinian government so that newly elected Hamas officials will fail and elections will be called again, according to Israeli officials and Western diplomats.

The intention is to starve the Palestinian Authority of money and international connections to the point where, some months from now, its president, Mahmoud Abbas, is compelled to call a new election. The hope is that Palestinians will be so unhappy with life under Hamas that they will return to office a reformed and chastened Fatah movement.

The officials also argue that a close look at the election results shows that Hamas won a smaller mandate than previously understood.

The officials and diplomats, who said this approach was being discussed at the highest levels of the State Department and the Israeli government, spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly on the issue.

They say Hamas will be given a choice: recognize Israel's right to exist, forswear violence and accept previous Palestinian-Israeli agreements — as called for by the United Nations and the West — or face isolation and collapse.

This seems so wrong to me. We supposedly believe in spreading democracy all over the Middle East, yet when the Palestinians have a democratic election to select a government, if we don't like their choice, we will force these democractically elected leaders out? And who is going to enforce this? Do we really have the forces right now to back Israel up, given our entrenchment in Iraq and the ongoing difficulties with Al Qaeda? :( I'm really concerned about this tactic. It scares the hell out of me. :(

What does everyone else think about this?

hockeybrat
02-14-2006, 11:50 AM
I agree with you. I don't really care for Hamas either but they won the election fairly and even though we, as a nation, don't care for them either doesn't give us the right to not recognize them or even try to oust them out of power. That isn't the point of democracy.

eta - What will happen if Iraq ever votes in a Sunni majority party and we don't happen to agree with that? Will we also try to oust that government? It is too hands-on on our part.

PG-rated
02-14-2006, 11:52 AM
Hmmm. Well, I think we're well within our rights to cut off aid to Palestine over this, and that would be a true economic blow to them. It doesn't seem that they're talking about a forcible overthrow or anything like that. But I don't think it's exactly the smartest move, especially for Israel, since it will just gain more support for Hamas.

lawyerlee
02-14-2006, 12:06 PM
Hmmm. Well, I think we're well within our rights to cut off aid to Palestine over this, and that would be a true economic blow to them. It doesn't seem that they're talking about a forcible overthrow or anything like that. But I don't think it's exactly the smartest move, especially for Israel, since it will just gain more support for Hamas.
I agree. To think that trying to exert this kind of influence is going to make people support a different kind of leadership is just nonsense.

As to whether it is okay or right to cut off aid, I personally think it is sick and wrong to cut off aid because we disagree with a government. The leadership does not suffer, the ordinary people do. :(

msnicolea
02-14-2006, 12:08 PM
Apparently, "free" elections only count if we like the outcome.

PG-rated
02-14-2006, 12:10 PM
As to whether it is okay or right to cut off aid, I personally think it is sick and wrong to cut off aid because we disagree with a government. The leadership does not suffer, the ordinary people do. :(
I agree. If we can keep sending aid to North Korea, I think we can keep sending aid to Palestine. I think it would've been a lot smarter to let Hamas stand or fall on their own. If they fail without any interference, then so much the better. If they succeed, then there's a good chance that terrorism will be reduced, anyway, since people who live comfortable lifestyles are less likely to become radicalized.

msnicolea
02-14-2006, 12:12 PM
If they succeed, then there's a good chance that terrorism will be reduced, anyway, since people who live comfortable lifestyles are less likely to become radicalized.

Exactly right. If the standard of living improves for Palestinians EVERYONE, including Israel, will benefit!

lawyerlee
02-14-2006, 12:14 PM
I think it would've been a lot smarter to let Hamas stand or fall on their own. If they fail without any interference, then so much the better. If they succeed, then there's a good chance that terrorism will be reduced, anyway, since people who live comfortable lifestyles are less likely to become radicalized.
Excellent points. Maybe there is still a chance we'll go this way instead. A girl can hope, anyway! ;)

asksmd94
02-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Apparently, "free" elections only count if we like the outcome.
In so many words, this is exactly what I said this morning to my BF as I was watching the morning news and getting ready for work.

sue-bert
02-14-2006, 12:56 PM
After encouraging democratic elections, deliberately destabilizing a democratically-elected government by encouraging a coup or a war is hypocritical. That being said, I have no problem cutting aid to the Palestinian authority. It's the Palestinians' democratic right to elect terrorists, but why should my US tax dollars fund them?

If they succeed, then there's a good chance that terrorism will be reduced, anyway, since people who live comfortable lifestyles are less likely to become radicalized.
Actually, most of the terrorists/suicide bombers who murdered Israeli civilian in the current intifada are comfortably middle-class.