Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter [Archive]

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kimbyj

02-12-2006, 03:37 PM

Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
12 minutes ago

Sorry - I don't know how to link this and don't want to violate copyright.

Here is the article in brief....

Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and wounded a companion during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, spraying the fellow hunter in the face and chest with shotgun pellets.

Harry Whittington, a millionaire attorney from Austin, was "alert and doing fine" in a Corpus Christi hospital Sunday after he was shot by Cheney on a ranch in south Texas, said Katharine Armstrong, the property's owner.

He was described as in stable condition by Yvonne Wheeler, spokeswoman for the Christus Spohn Health System in Corpus Christi.

Armstrong in an interview with The Associated Press said Whittington, 78, was mostly injured on his right side, with the pellets hitting his cheek, neck and chest during the incident which occurred late afternoon on Saturday

She said emergency personnel traveling with Cheney tended to Whittington until the ambulance arrived.

Cheney's spokeswoman, Lea Anne McBride, said the vice president was with Whittington and his wife at the hospital on Sunday.

The shooting was first reported by the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. The vice president's office did not disclose the accident until nearly 24 hours after it happened.

Armstrong said she was watching from a car while Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of the vehicle to shoot at a covey of quail.

Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Cheney and the third hunter walked to another spot and discovered a second covey.

Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," Armstrong said.

"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."

___

Associated Press writer Paul Weber in Dallas contributed to this report.

gokatgo

02-12-2006, 03:41 PM

(In light of the fact that the man he shot is fine) I can't stop laughing about this. At least the lack of competence is consistent.

chefker

02-12-2006, 04:34 PM

sublime311

02-12-2006, 04:35 PM

Natural selection at work, I think.

chrisinluv

02-12-2006, 04:37 PM

I'm glad nobody was seriously injured- especially the bird!

MLA

02-12-2006, 04:47 PM

I'm glad nobody was seriously injured- especially the bird!

LMAO!

Quails are cute. Who'd want to shoot a quail? Seriously, the man's a cyborg.

chefker

02-12-2006, 05:07 PM

Seriously, the man's a cyborg.

ROFL, something like that!

Man...he's starting to make Gerald Ford look like grace personified.

Witty Username

02-12-2006, 05:12 PM

What's the slogan again.... Guns don't kill people, people kill people....

Indeed.

I'm glad no one was seriously injured. It seems like Cheney's poor health insured immediate medical attention.

"Fortunately, the vice president has got a lot of medical people around him and so they were right there and probably more cautious than we would have been," she said. "The vice president has got an ambulance on call, so the ambulance came."

Delta

02-12-2006, 06:10 PM

OMG this is sooo bad. :o

(Although I know nothing about hunting and don't care to, it does seem like it was the guy who got shot who messed up. Regardless, hunting really makes me want to throw up.)

jnettie

02-12-2006, 06:23 PM

Witty Username...no way! He's got an ambulance on call!!!!!!!!!!!! That is NOT a possitive thing!

I'm glad the guy who was shot is ok because I, too, was laughing when I heard this on the news. :o

kimbyj

02-12-2006, 11:25 PM

phoenix

02-12-2006, 11:50 PM

oh my :o

justHB

02-13-2006, 12:37 AM

Have y'all seen a quail? They're tiny! I can't image there being anything left to it after being filled with bullets. Unless, of course, the Veep likes to kill for killing's sake and hadn't planned on grilling up some quail for dinner, in which case how much of the bird was left would be irrelevant.

sublime311

02-13-2006, 06:04 AM

Sorry but any which way I look at this I would be PISSED if I were the one who was shot - close friends..accident...etc. Aren't they shooting at birds up in the sky? Shouldn't they look before shooting? I dunno. Sad story - hope the friend is okay. Okay meaning alive, not scarred on his face and neck and mentally/emotionally doing okay. I think I would be having some serious anxiety issues had this happened to me.
Actually, though quail can fly, they prefer to run/walk and spend most of their time on the ground. I think they startle the covey and send them into the air to shoot them. Usually, they only fly up long enough to find a new hiding place.

Bastards. Quail are amazing. :mad:

batgirl

02-13-2006, 06:51 AM

This is too funny! (just wish that Bush or Scalia was hunting with him this time, but regardless, better to shoot a big time $$ contributer than an innocent little bird!).

I personally love how they are saying it was the victims fault! He "snuck up" behind Cheney. Yeah, I know I personally love to sneak up behind people with loaded weapons! Specially ones with little regard for human life.

Does anyone know the status of this guy's condition? First I heard that he was "fine" and was probably going to be released today, but then this morning I heard he was still in intensive care?

chefker

02-13-2006, 06:58 AM

I personally love how they are saying it was the victims fault! He "snuck up" behind Cheney.

Yeah, he 'snuck up' on Cheney--wearing a BRIGHT ORANGE hunting vest. :rolleyes:

It does seem like they're trying to deflect blame. Or at the very least, the VP's people aren't going to issue a statement saying it was totally Cheney's fault. Understandably, it was an accident....but geez. It is sounding like Cheney is just not an experienced quail hunter!

LyLMyssChaos

02-13-2006, 07:05 AM

I see nothing wrong with hunting quail and I feel badly that this guy didn't follow proper hunting protocol, but I am glad that he was not injured seriously. I am guessing he was an inexperienced hunter. Anyone who has ever hunted know that if you are rejoining your group after trying to locate a target(which you really shouldn't do, when hunting in a group, you should keep the group together to avoid these types of accidents,) you should announce yourself verbally because your partners are most likely visually fixated on a target and will not be looking for you to walk up until you announce yourself. I think the whole group of them needs to retake a hunter's safety class before they head out hunting again.

udsweetpea

02-13-2006, 07:14 AM

But I think its fairly obvious the man was not a quail and should not have been shot because he didn't use proper hunting protocol.

chefker

02-13-2006, 07:16 AM

I think the whole group of them needs to retake a hunter's safety class before they head out hunting again.

Couldn't agree more with this! My dad and I used to go duck hunting when I was younger. The logistics of duck hunting are somewhat similar to quail hunting--i.e., flush them out while remaining somewhat concealed. (I don't hunt anymore as I don't see the 'need', but that is a different thread altogether).

And, while it IS common sense to announce yourself when rejoining a group, the thing my dad taught me about gun safety that ALWAYS stuck with me is simple: 'Think before you shoot that gun.' This is how hunting accidents happen--people just get trigger happy, assuming that any sudden movement is their quarry.

LyLMyssChaos

02-13-2006, 07:22 AM

And, while it IS common sense to announce yourself when rejoining a group, the thing my dad taught me about gun safety that ALWAYS stuck with me is simple: 'Think before you shoot that gun.' This is how hunting accidents happen--people just get trigger happy, assuming that any sudden movement is their quarry.

Oh I agree. I don't think any of them should be allowed to hunt again. I have hunted MANY times in my life(been going out since I was 4) and no one I was with has ever been shot, or even come close to being shot.

gokatgo

02-13-2006, 09:54 AM

Oh I agree. I don't think any of them should be allowed to hunt again. I have hunted MANY times in my life(been going out since I was 4) and no one I was with has ever been shot, or even come close to being shot.

Well, that's quite an accomplishment.
I'm sure it's best not to sneak up on anyone with a shotgun and heart problems, but I've also never seen a quail that was over 5 feet tall and looked like an old man in an orange vest.
Though it is entirely consistent with Cheney's whole shoot/torture/bomb first, investigate later methodology.

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-13-2006, 10:16 AM

I think the logistics are not being entirely understood here.

According to the story, it wasn't an issue of Cheney mistaking his hunting companion for a quail, and I don't think it's logical to assume that was what happened, when you consider how people hunt quail. He and the other guy flushed out a covey. As the covey was flying up, they followed the arc of their flight. And as Cheney was following the arc, and presumably turning as he did so, his other buddy was in or walked into the path of the arc.

IMO, it's a very unfortunate accident.

That said, I definitely question how they've handled the accident.
More Questions Raised About Delay in Reporting Cheney Misfire (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001995719) Editor & Publisher
The more than 18-hour delay in news emerging that the Vice President of the United States had shot a man, sending him to an intensive care unit with his wounds, grew even more curious late Sunday. E&P has learned that the official confirmation of the shooting came about only after a local reporter in Corpus Christi, Texas, received a tip from the owner of the property where the shooting occured and called Vice President Cheney's office for confirmation.

The confirmation was made but it is not known for certain that Cheney's office, the White House, or anyone else intended to announce the shooting if the reporter, Jaime Powell of the Corpus Christi Caller-Times, had not received word from the ranch owner.
More at link.

Delta

02-13-2006, 10:16 AM

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/york/york200602131129.aspIn Washington this morning, administration officials are defending their decision not to tell the press about the incident in which Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fellow hunter while hunting quail in Texas. The accident happened at about 5:30 P.M. local time on Saturday, but it was not reported until the vice president's host, Katharine Armstrong, called her local paper, the Corpus Christi Caller-Times, on Sunday morning to give them the story. Only afterward, when contacted by the local paper, did the vice president's office confirm the incident.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1159061,00.htmlThe cardinal rule of hunting could not be more simple: Don’t shoot the people (or the dogs). If there’s anyone in Washington who knows this, one would have thought it would be Vice President Dick Cheney, who accidentally shot his friend and fellow hunter Harry Whittington, 78, late Saturday afternoon. Whittington is expected to recover from his injuries, but the question will linger on: how does an accident like this happen among hunters with so much experience?

Delta

02-13-2006, 10:21 AM

Here is an article about the 'victim'.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/02/021206whittington.html

kimbyj

02-13-2006, 10:23 AM

I understand the mechanics of hunting and understand the size of the quail etc. What I don't understand is HOW this can happen if they are practising safe hunting guidelines. The friend has to be somewhere between 5.5-6.5 feet so Cheney was shooting at that height. Was he not aware of his surroundings?

Also, As much as I abhor hunting I do know some people who hunt. They have a policy of NOT verbally announcing their return for fear of scaring off their prey. They have some sort of other signal - I think they once said some kind of walkie talkie thing - but they don't talk into it.

For me this is not about politics or Cheney. It is simply about the "tragedy" of this event.

msnicolea

02-13-2006, 10:24 AM

Here is an article about the 'victim'.

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/02/021206whittington.html

Why is 'victim' in quotes? The man was shot, which I think means that he IS, by definition, a victim.

"one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions"

chefker

02-13-2006, 10:34 AM

Why is 'victim' in quotes? The man was shot, which I think means that he IS, by definition, a victim.

I was kind of wondering about this too.... :confused:

chrisinluv

02-13-2006, 10:38 AM

I'm not happy about how they immediately started trying to paint the victim as the person who was in the wrong. I found this article and found it interesting.

Texas Parks and Wildlife
March 14, 2005
Texas Hunting Accidents Drop to Record Low (http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20050314c)

Particularly this part...
The primary reason for Texas hunting accidents remains swinging on game outside a safe zone of fire. This happens when a person points a firearm at another hunter while following a moving target, such as a flying game bird. Hunter education teaches people to set up safe zones of fire where a gun can be safely pointed whether the target is moving or stationary.

Careless firearm handling remains another primary factor in many accidents.

“Careless handling incidents almost always involve three factors: pointing a loaded firearm muzzle at yourself or someone else with the safety off and with your finger inside the trigger guard,” Hall explained. Hunter education courses teach ways to safely handle firearms, including how to carry them in the field and pass them from one person to another.

Delta

02-13-2006, 10:41 AM

Why is 'victim' in quotes? The man was shot, which I think means that he IS, by definition, a victim.

"one that is injured, destroyed, or sacrificed under any of various conditions"
Lordy, no reason. I guess because I was thinking he wasn't killed so I put it in quotes.

My point was to post the article, he's an interesting guy.

Delta

02-13-2006, 10:45 AM

Also, the rumor from DC is that he'd had a few.

chrisinluv

02-13-2006, 10:50 AM

Also, the rumor from DC is that he'd had a few.

Actually, that was my hunch as well! But I was surprised to see that alcohol doesn't play as big a role in hunting accidents as generally thought.

IrisHope

02-13-2006, 10:51 AM

You have to be dead to be a victim?

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-13-2006, 10:55 AM

Uh-oh. If one had a few, then the likelihood is that all had a few.
Either way, that'd explain the delay in notifying anyone.

Delta

02-13-2006, 10:59 AM

And to clarify, I was talking about Cheney wrt my rumor post.

ysolde

02-13-2006, 11:19 AM

Yes, there are rumors circulating around here (FWIW) that Cheney had had a few. Good Lord, though. The hunters I know are pretty upset about this, because it seems the whole incident violates all the "safe hunting guidelines" they are taught.

fuzzy

02-13-2006, 11:23 AM

What I don't understand is HOW this can happen if they are practising safe hunting guidelines. The friend has to be somewhere between 5.5-6.5 feet so Cheney was shooting at that height. Was he not aware of his surroundings?

I think the primary reason probably is carelessness, on the part of both parties. That said, my assumption is that they were using bird shot. Bird shot "sprays" quite a bit, so even if he wasn't directly in front of Cheney (as in, if he was standing more to the side) and even if Cheney was shooting well above his head, it could have happened. Again, carelessness is the likely culprit, but...I am much less nervous around rifle hunters than I am hunters using bird shot.

Delta

02-13-2006, 11:24 AM

And here's the thing. Had the WH released the information themselves on Saturday night, instead of waiting for the ranch owner to call the Corpus paper the next day, this would not be as big of a story. Now the press is all over the WH wondering why the delay. I just watched the WH press briefing live and they were hammering Scott almost as bad as they did over the Libby stuff.

I mean really, it's the basic rule of the WH press office - get the story to the press yourself and as soon as possible in order to own the story, or the story will own you.

Cheney's going to have to have a press conference.

Delta

02-13-2006, 11:25 AM

That said, my assumption is that they were using bird shot.
Yes, it was shot from what I understand. Not a bullet.

chrisinluv

02-13-2006, 11:29 AM

I was disgusted by how they made sure they didn't really answer the questions.

One of the reporters asked why it took 22 hours for the story to break, and his response was something to the effect of, "Because the VP was concerned about getting his friend medical care." That is not an answer to the question.

ysolde

02-13-2006, 11:57 AM

greenbunny

02-13-2006, 12:31 PM

Bird shot "sprays" quite a bit, so even if he wasn't directly in front of Cheney (as in, if he was standing more to the side) and even if Cheney was shooting well above his head, it could have happened. Again, carelessness is the likely culprit, but...I am much less nervous around rifle hunters than I am hunters using bird shot.

I know very little about shooting animals (I've only ever done target shooting) but the news radio show I listen to was saying this morning that the shot they were using sprays out, but also slows down very quickly and does not travel far (compared to other guns used for hunting). It can't do much damage to a person unless they are fairly close (as this guy was) compared to the types of rifles used for deer hunting.

I remember the discussion of how a rifle can be deadly for long distances during a local news story in which a pregnant woman was shot in the head in her driveway by a stray bullet from a hunter too close to her development.

katmg

02-13-2006, 12:37 PM

According to the story, it wasn't an issue of Cheney mistaking his hunting companion for a quail, and I don't think it's logical to assume that was what happened, when you consider how people hunt quail. He and the other guy flushed out a covey. As the covey was flying up, they followed the arc of their flight. And as Cheney was following the arc, and presumably turning as he did so, his other buddy was in or walked into the path of the arc.

Yes. This is my understanding as well. The whole thing is so frustratingly stupid. The lawyer was stupid for approaching from the rear without warning his hunting party that he was rejoining. Cheney was a dumbass for shooting over an area where someone could be approaching. You NEVER point a loaded weapon in the direction where people are.

My DH is a hunter. He and his buddies were so angry that this accident happened. Not only is a tragedy for the man shot, but it gives all hunters a bad name and increases the number of hunting accidents in the state. Cheney should be required to retake the "hunter safety" course before hunting again.

Seems like such a "rookie" mistake to let this story sit.

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-13-2006, 01:32 PM

My DH is a hunter. He and his buddies were so angry that this accident happened. Not only is a tragedy for the man shot, but it gives all hunters a bad name and increases the number of hunting accidents in the state. Cheney should be required to retake the "hunter safety" course before hunting again.
I guess I don't know why I would have thought otherwise, but I was surprised to see that the number of such accidents in the state was in the low double digits. Editor & Publisher quoted the Chronicle: "In 2004, it said, the state's one million-plus hunters were involved in only 29 hunting-related accidents (19 involving firearms), four of which were fatal."

I would've thought it'd be a lot more.

lawyerlee

02-13-2006, 01:37 PM

Regardless, hunting really makes me want to throw up.
Totally. :(

I've known a number of people who have been killed in hunting accidents, so I'm just glad this man's injuries were as minor as they seem to be. Still, it must hurt like a bitch to have buck shot dug out of your face. :eek: :(

katmg

02-13-2006, 02:01 PM

aussie

02-13-2006, 02:14 PM

I guess I don't know why I would have thought otherwise, but I was surprised to see that the number of such accidents in the state was in the low double digits. Editor & Publisher quoted the Chronicle: "In 2004, it said, the state's one million-plus hunters were involved in only 29 hunting-related accidents (19 involving firearms), four of which were fatal."

I would've thought it'd be a lot more.

My understanding is that very few are reported and that is why it's so low. My friend's husband takes people out dove hunting and says this has happened to him a dozen time in the past 5 years. The accidents rarely yield major injuries so they go unreported. I'm sure what made this situation so bad was the guy's age and the fact that it apparently mostly got his face.

dionysia

02-13-2006, 03:42 PM

Time to recalibrate the robot's aim!!!

Di

PG-rated

02-13-2006, 04:06 PM

I think it's very interesting that the timing of notifying the press has become a story. Personally, I don't really think it's an issue, because it's clear there was no coverup, but I think it speaks to a general paranoia that the White House will avoid telling the whole story wherever possible.

White House Under Fire Over Cheney Shooting (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11312757/)

jnettie

02-13-2006, 05:42 PM

Exactly! Ultimately, it's not really a story. People would make fun of him for being stupid and move on. Now, it's a bigger story because it seems like a coverup.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrr, maybe it is a cover up? Conspiracy theorists unite!

Delta

02-13-2006, 07:05 PM

What it does is illustrate that fact that Cheney really does what he wants, when he wants.

Apparently Scott McClellan didn't even know about it until early Sunday morning. And he referred most of the questions at the briefing today to the VP's office, which isn't saying much. It sounds like Cheney made the decision as to how the information was going to be released, or at least made the decision to defer to K. Armstrong to tell the Corpus paper. Whatever it was it totally violated the number one rule of the WH press office. He really just doesn't give a flying fart it seems like. And now, once again, his office has put McClellan in a tight spot, to say the least. I cannot believe though that nobody told the Veep that this would be a good idea. Or if they did, he either shot them down (no put intended) or they didn't press the issue too hard. Regardless, the insight this gives is pretty interesting.

lawyerlee

02-13-2006, 08:00 PM

The way McClellan sounds when he gets all pissy like he did today just drives me up a wall. I think it's pretty interesting that he didn't know right away, too. I personally think he's kinda pissed about that and that came through in his interaction with the press today. Heh. :)

ellybelle

02-13-2006, 10:45 PM

Delta I agree that it's an interesting commentary on Cheney's influence.

I also think the whole "it took 21 hours to reveal it!" is lame bs, and stupid partisan "nya-nya". I'm sick of partisan "oooh, oooh!" whether it's about a blowjob or a hunting accident. Who cares?
Now, if it had taken 6 months to be released, then it would be a story. And if it was about something more important?

Oh, wait, it's the press and the Dems who sit on their hands for several months, then put things out! (and yes, I am left of center -- just disgusted by Washington at this point).

greenbunny

02-14-2006, 07:10 AM

I'm sick of partisan "oooh, oooh!" whether it's about a blowjob or a hunting accident.

Funny you should mention this, because the funniest joke I've heard about this incident relates to that. It's waaaaay dirty, though. :cool:

alootikki

02-14-2006, 07:22 AM

Ok greenbunny, now you HAVE to post the joke! ;)

jnettie

02-14-2006, 07:32 AM

just use code words for the dirty parts!

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-14-2006, 07:44 AM

I also think the whole "it took 21 hours to reveal it!" is lame bs, and stupid partisan "nya-nya". I'm sick of partisan "oooh, oooh!" whether it's about a blowjob or a hunting accident. Who cares?
Now, if it had taken 6 months to be released, then it would be a story. And if it was about something more important?
I have to disagree. Accident or not, this is someone getting shot. By the Veep, of all people. That is big news. And what makes it bigger is the possibility that he may have "had a few." Which puts an entirely different meaning on the delay.

As far as it being partisan, I don't think it is. People on the left and the right are making a big deal about it.

batgirl

02-14-2006, 07:55 AM

I have to disagree. Accident or not, this is someone getting shot. By the Veep, of all people. That is big news. And what makes it bigger is the possibility that he may have "had a few." Which puts an entirely different meaning on the delay.

ITA. Too bad we'll never know the whole story (especially about him "having a few" since the deputy that went to question him the night of the incident wasn't let in...) My guess is that they were trying to keep it as quiet as possible, then blame the victim, then blame the dog... who are they blaming now?

And the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department has determined that the shooting of Harry Whittington was caused by a "Hunter's judgment factor." Not "Victim moved into line of fire", which is apparently one of the boxes on the Hunting Accident and Incident Report Form.

Jeez, you guys remember how much hassle that Cheney gave Kerry for wearing a new hunting vest? At least Kerry never shot anyone!

I really believe that if Cheney would have just made a statement to the media saying that he made a mistake and felt some remorse about it, this wouldn't be as big of an issue as it is. But no one has even seen the f*cker since its happend and the only statement released said he did nothing wrong and blamed the vicitm. Typical.

batgirl

02-14-2006, 07:59 AM

These are funny!

TV joke writers take shots at Cheney

"Late Show with David Letterman," CBS

"Good news, ladies and gentlemen, we have finally located weapons of mass destruction: It's Dick Cheney."

"But here is the sad part -- before the trip Donald Rumsfeld had denied the guy's request for body armor."

"We can't get Bin Laden, but we nailed a 78-year-old attorney."

"The guy who got gunned down, he is a Republican lawyer and a big Republican donor and fortunately the buck shot was deflected by wads of laundered cash. So he's fine. He took a little in the wallet."

"The Tonight Show with Jay Leno," NBC

"Although it is beautiful here in California, the weather back East has been atrocious. There was so much snow in Washington, D.C., Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fat guy thinking it was a polar bear."

"That's the big story over the weekend. ... Dick Cheney accidentally shot a fellow hunter, a 78-year-old lawyer. In fact, when people found out he shot a lawyer, his popularity is now at 92 percent."

"I think Cheney is starting to lose it. After he shot the guy he screamed, 'Anyone else want to call domestic wire tapping illegal?' "

"Dick Cheney is capitalizing on this for Valentine's Day. It's the new Dick Cheney cologne. It's called Duck!"

More here:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/14/cheney.jokes.ap/index.html

greenbunny

02-14-2006, 10:18 AM

Okay, here's the cleanest version of the joke I've heard:

At least when Bill Clinton shoots someone in the face, it only takes a tissue to clean up the mess.

jp'swife

02-14-2006, 10:22 AM

Okay, here's the cleanest version of the joke I've heard:

At least when Bill Clinton shoots someone in the face, it only takes a tissue to clean up the mess.

or a dress.

lawyerlee

02-14-2006, 10:46 AM

I love the joke, but I love jp'swife's addition even more!!! :D

Delta

02-14-2006, 11:27 AM

Apparently Harry Whittington has some shot lodged in his heart. They found it this morning after he had a minor heart attack. :(

What a nightmare. I don't feel comfortable joking about it now, at least until he gets better for sure.

lawyerlee

02-14-2006, 11:29 AM

Apparently Harry Whittington has some shot lodged in his heart. They found it this morning after he had a minor heart attack. :(
I hadn't heard this. Yet another reason it was wrong it not allow the police immediate access to the Vice President. Sounds like the situation is much more serious than originally thought. How awful. :(

Delta

02-14-2006, 11:30 AM

It's breaking news right now. They just found it.

ysolde

02-14-2006, 11:31 AM

Mr. Whittington will be in my prayers. What a sad, sad event.

Delta

02-14-2006, 11:35 AM

Per the docs, it was atrial fibrillation and he was asymptomatic. They only picked up the heart attack via a monitor.

The docs are downplaying it and saying he's just fine and will be just fine, but it sounds scary to me.

ETA: Lordy, the docs are like YELLING at the press right now.

lawyerlee

02-14-2006, 11:35 AM

Per the docs, it was atrial fibrillation and he was asymptomatic. They only picked up the heart attack via a monitor.

The docs are downplaying it and saying he's just fine and will be just fine, but it sounds scary to me.
No doubt. Any mention of heart attack sounds scary to me! :(

mgrace

02-14-2006, 11:35 AM

From the AP:

Man Accidentally Shot By Dick Cheney Has Heart Attack
Cheney Accidentally Shot Hunting Companion

UPDATED: 12:25 pm CST February 14, 2006

LOS ANGELES -- Doctors in Texas said some of the birdshot that Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally fired at a fellow hunter over the weekend has lodged in the man's heart, causing a minor heart attack.

Harry Whittington, 78, moved from intensive care to a "step-down unit" yesterday. That was after doctors decided to leave several birdshot pellets lodged in his skin, rather than try to remove them.

Cheney accidentally shot and wounded Whittington on Saturday while they were hunting on the 50,000-acre Armstrong ranch in South Texas. State officials said Cheney was in violation of Texas game law for failing to buy a hunting stamp.

The vice president's office said Monday night he's sent in a $7 check for the stamp.
I hope Whittington is OK. I haven't read therough the whole thread yet, but he didn't have a game stamp? Nice. I'm sure the $7 was prohibitive.

jp'swife

02-14-2006, 11:36 AM

I love the joke, but I love jp'swife's addition even more!!! :D

thank you! thank you!
I'll be here all week!

(see Diana...we were talking about comedians WAY too much yesterday!) ha! ha!

lawyerlee

02-14-2006, 11:37 AM

I hope Whittington is OK. I haven't read therough the whole thread yet, but he didn't have a game stamp? Nice. I'm sure the $7 was prohibitive.
The story I read said that his office asked the State of Texas exactly what permits he needed to be legally allowed to hunt, but, according to the reps, failed to mention the $7 stamp. They also said that he has already sent the money for it. So that part might be a non-issue.

lawyerlee

02-14-2006, 11:38 AM

thank you! thank you!
I'll be here all week!

(see Diana...we were talking about comedians WAY too much yesterday!) ha! ha!
No doubt! ;)

mgrace

02-14-2006, 11:38 AM

Thanks lawyerlee.

jp'swife

02-14-2006, 11:41 AM

Oh no! a heart attack? how horrible!

jesvet

02-14-2006, 12:01 PM

No longer funny. That really stinks. :( I hope he's OK.

dionysia

02-14-2006, 12:28 PM

Here's hoping that Mr Whittington makes it through ok.

Poor guy. :(

Di

PG-rated

02-14-2006, 01:00 PM

As always, Slate has a really good take on the press situation:

Cheney's Bad Aim (http://www.slate.com/id/2136128/nav/2/&GT1=7838)

jp'swife

02-14-2006, 01:11 PM

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.02.12.SittingDuck-X.gif

from www.coxandforkum.com

greenbunny

02-14-2006, 02:58 PM

Oh, that just writes itself. I don't think the cartoonist should even get paid for that. ;) (jk)

Delta

02-14-2006, 08:53 PM

http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,1159347,00.html

The Vice President was the press strategist, and Karl Rove was the investigative reporter. Vice President Cheney overruled the advice of several members of the White House staff and insisted on sticking to a plan for releasing information about his hunting accident that resulted in a 20-hour, overnight delay in public confirmation of the startling incident, according to several Republican sources.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 11:31 AM

I'm just shaking my head. Thankfully nobody was hurt...

I wonder if something is (medically) wrong with the VP.
He's had health issues before, so I wonder how wise it was for him to be out hunting. (Or to continue to hold office as VP, but that's a whole different thread altogether).

Why does it necessarily have to be something wrong with the VP in this situation. Do you realize that the person that was shot, left the group and didn't tell anyone when he returned.

As someone who advocates gun owner rights and the right to bear arms, I hate how the media is having field day with this.

A good hunter knows safety and that you always let the others in your party know where you are at all times. It's obvious that Cheney was not the only one at fault here.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 11:32 AM

batgirl

02-15-2006, 11:48 AM

Why does it necessarily have to be something wrong with the VP in this situation. Do you realize that the person that was shot, left the group and didn't tell anyone when he returned.

As someone who advocates gun owner rights and the right to bear arms, I hate how the media is having field day with this.

A good hunter knows safety and that you always let the others in your party know where you are at all times. It's obvious that Cheney was not the only one at fault here.

Oh please, let's stop the blame the victim bullshit. Its getting old. Even the police department said the incident resulted from “hunter’s judgment factor.” And now its being reported that the ranch owner, Katharine Armstrong, told NBC News that "There may have been a beer or two".

Have you guys heard? The f*cker is finally going to speak, today at 2pm on Fox news (where else?)

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 12:02 PM

Oh please, let's stop the blame the victim bullshit. Its getting old.

It's obvious that Cheney was not the only one at fault here.

Where did I say again that his hunting party was the only one at fault again?

I say again that it really p!sses me off how the media is all over this one. Guns have been and always will be the focal point of the leftist media, especially when it has to do with another human being injured. It's amazing how this stuff happens every day but geezus, if the VP does it, wow, it must be bad! The only good thing, is that I hope it will come to light the importance of gun safety on all cases. The public will always fear what they don't understand.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/DorGunR/Cartoon/badgun0nr.gif

chrisinluv

02-15-2006, 12:03 PM

Why does it necessarily have to be something wrong with the VP in this situation. Do you realize that the person that was shot, left the group and didn't tell anyone when he returned.

It does have to be the VP's fault, sorry. He's the one who pointed his gun and shot without looking where he was shooting.

Is there anyone who would disagree that a "good hunter" looks where his gun will spray? What characteristics make a good hunter who is BEHIND the gun? Truth is, Whittington should be able to walk wherever he wants without expecting to get shot. If somebody doesn't know how to manage a gun, he shouldn't be shooting it. I would think gun advocates would be ashamed of Cheney.

hockeybrat

02-15-2006, 12:04 PM

dionysia

02-15-2006, 12:09 PM

From the TX Dept of Wildlife:
"The number of people injured in hunting accidents in Texas decreased from 44 in 2003 to 29 in 2004."

That's hardly one a day.

Di

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 12:10 PM

Thought I'd drop in how birdshot works for those who are "stoopid" when it comes to firearms:

Birdshot is not a single bullet but a shell loaded with small pellets. Think carnival shooting. When you shoot, you are spraying. There are numerous hunters that have been sprayed with birdshot and they'll tell you it hurts, but it won't kill you. The only reason that lawyer's life was in danger was because some of the lead happened to get near his heart.

batgirl

02-15-2006, 12:13 PM

I say again that it really p!sses me off how the media is all over this one. Guns have been and always will be the focal point of the leftist media, especially when it has to do with another human being injured.

I really don't see this as a gun issue (and I'm as leftist liberal as you can get). Do I want to outlaw guns? No. Do democrats? No. This is about Cheney being a complete incompetent stubborn ass who immediately tried to hide, refused to comment, blaming first the victim, then the dog! Jeez! If he would have come out and made an announcement (hence showed some compassion for shooting a guy) this would not have blown into the issue it has become.

msnicolea

02-15-2006, 12:14 PM

Yeah-silly leftist media--I mean, why even report what happened?

Emilie

02-15-2006, 12:16 PM

I say again that it really p!sses me off how the media is all over this one. Guns have been and always will be the focal point of the leftist media, especially when it has to do with another human being injured.

I don't see the media saying hunting is bad, I don't see anyone saying because Cheney shot someone we need to ban guns - reading into it much? I see the media saying that maybe Cheney should have been more forthcoming when he shot someone instead of doing what APPEARS to be a cover up and I agree with them.

I personally think it is because he was drinking or drunk - that is why the delay in letting anyone interview him.

And calling people stoopid in an attempt to educate them, usually doesn't work too well.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 12:17 PM

I really don't see this as a gun issue (and I'm as leftist liberal as you can get). Do I want to outlaw guns? No. Do democrats? No. This is about Cheney being a complete incompetent stubborn ass who immediately tried to hide, refused to comment, blaming first the victim, then the dog! Jeez! If he would have come out and made an announcement (hence showed some compassion for shooting a guy) this would not have blown into the issue it has become.

We will never know exactly what happened because we weren't there. And anyone who takes what the media has to say for gospel are plainly idiots.

Furthermore, why should Cheney, or anyone for that matter, have to run to the media to make an announcement? What does the media have to do with anything? "oh! oh! Let me call the media on this before I call 911! The public must know what happened!"

:rolleyes:

batgirl

02-15-2006, 12:21 PM

Thought I'd drop in how birdshot works for those who are "stoopid" when it comes to firearms:

Excuse me? Who exactly are you calling "stoopid"? Sorry, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how you kill a farm raised bird with a shotgun...

When you shoot, you are spraying. There are numerous hunters that have been sprayed with birdshot and they'll tell you it hurts, but it won't kill you.
A photographer for the Corpus Christi Caller-Times has simulated the accident by firing his own 28-gauge shotgun, loaded with birdshot, at a paper target 30yards away -- the same distance that is said to have separated Cheney from Whittington when the vice president pulled the trigger. The result is at this link...
http://mas.scripps.com/CCCT/2006/02/14/p-1cheneyc0214_e.jpg

The only reason that lawyer's life was in danger was because some of the lead happened to get near his heart.

But this isn't because he was sprayed with birdshot? (Because we all know it "won't kill you." It'll put you in intensive care for a week...)

Emilie

02-15-2006, 12:21 PM

Have you guys heard? The f*cker is finally going to speak, today at 2pm on Fox news (where else?)

Since there has been lots of speculation on drinking - care to take bets on whether Fox news has the integrity to ask if the VP was drinking or not? My money says that they won't ask.

Tanya

02-15-2006, 12:22 PM

Is there anyone who would disagree that a "good hunter" looks where his gun will spray?
Of course the blame has to fall to the person holding the weapon, but that's why rules are in place. As a type of double-check. You can only be responsible for yourself, unfortunately, and he should have not trusted that Cheney would know he was there. I've shot trap and skeet many times and I can understand when you are following a target how difficult it would be to see someone out of your line of site. But, I was shooting up in the air (clay pigeons), not at the ground. Shooting in range of where people are is much more dangerous and requires much more vigilance for safety.

batgirl

02-15-2006, 12:24 PM

Since there has been lots of speculation on drinking - care to take bets on whether Fox news has the integrity to ask if the VP was drinking or not? My money says that they won't ask.

:D funny!

5 bucks says that Cheney provided the questions!

katmg

02-15-2006, 12:25 PM

Furthermore, why should Cheney, or anyone for that matter, have to run to the media to make an announcement? What does the media have to do with anything? "oh! oh! Let me call the media on this before I call 911! The public must know what happened!"

It's about an attitude that he is above such announcements. After making sure that his friend got medical attention he should have immediately called the WH and let them know the situation. He should let the WH press secretary control the story from the beginning. By not doing that it made it look like he had something to hide. Accidents happen - you look guilty when you run away from them. Like it or not, he has to answer to the President and they both have to answer to the American public. Having an attitude that "I'll only tell you what I want you to know" is what makes people not trust the government.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 12:27 PM

Excuse me? Who exactly are you calling "stoopid"?

Calm down chickie. When anyone types "stoopid" it's normally meant in a joking way, but I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand that.

Thanks for posting that picture, but I know what it looks like when shooting birdshot. All you did was visualize what I was saying. But even so, it was a photographer from some newspaper that ran his own "simulation." Where did it say that he had a background in CSI for me to even consider that his simulation would be even near to what may have happened that day?

And once again, I reiterate that birdshot is not the same as a .45 caliber bullet.

Getting lead from birdshot into the heart is way more dangerous than say, if he was shot in his leg or lower torso.

I suggest you try to edumacate yourself a little more before trying to kid a kidder.

Emilie

02-15-2006, 12:28 PM

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 12:30 PM

I doubt he'd be charged. It's been pretty much ruled that both parties were at fault. I'm curious to know if the question if he should consider resigning will come up again. :rolleyes:

pocket

02-15-2006, 12:32 PM

You don't think an elected official needs to release a statement to the press if he accidentally shoots someone? That's manslaughter if he does die, and then what are you going to say if he dies and you didn't release a statement to the press. The dude is 78 and Cheney sprayed him with shot in the larynx, face, liver and heart. he was using very poor judgment in his hunting, not following sensible safety guidelines. That's no surprise when it comes to cheney. his entire life is about being above the rules. pita pointed out that they probably weren't drinking as Cheney probably isn't allowed to drink because of his health problems.

And at some point Cheney's starchy behavior is also insulting. Shouldn't there be some minimum level of explanation he's willing to offer as the second-highest ranking public official? When you nearly commit manslaughter as a public official shouldn't the honor of your office compel you to stand up and explain yourself in some fashion, at least say something in a press release and not just whisper it to a Texas rancher? from the slate article link above.

Emilie

02-15-2006, 12:33 PM

It's been pretty much ruled that both parties were at fault.

Ruled by who? Fox news? Or Scott "I get pissy when asked direct questions that I didn't supply to the press" McClellan?

dionysia

02-15-2006, 12:41 PM

batgirl

02-15-2006, 12:45 PM

Calm down chickie. When anyone types "stoopid" it's normally meant in a joking way, but I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand that.

I just figured you couldn't spell. Sorry.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 12:47 PM

Ruled by who? Fox news? Or Scott "I get pissy when asked direct questions that I didn't supply to the press" McClellan?

Umm, the actual accident report?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/images/02/14/CheneyAccidentReport.ap.pdf

msnicolea

02-15-2006, 12:50 PM

So, it's our business when Bill Clinton gets a "happy ending," but Dick Cheney shooting someone should be kept out of the papers?

And for something to be said/written in a "joking way" it should be funny.

batgirl

02-15-2006, 12:53 PM

Umm, the actual accident report?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/images/02/14/CheneyAccidentReport.ap.pdf

You mean the accident report with the "Hunter's judgment factor" box checked and the "Victim moved into line of fire" box empty?

Emilie

02-15-2006, 12:54 PM

The summary reads:

Whittington downed a bird and went to retrieve it. While he was out of the hunting line another covey was flushed and Cheney swung on a bird and fired striking Whittington in the face, neck and chest at approx. 30 yards.

Bolding is mine but where exactly does it say that they were both at fault - Cheney swung and shot.

The other thing that kills me is the report was taken on 2/12 but the incident took place on 2/11. Of course they checked the box that he wasn't under the influence - it was over 12 hours later!

batgirl

02-15-2006, 12:57 PM

Also, I was talking with my DH about this last night - if the man who was shot dies, would Cheney be charged with manslaughter - involuntary or otherwise? Would someone who wasn't the VP be charged? I honestly don't know the laws here so I am asking.

The New York Times posted about this today.

Kleberg County District Attorney Carlos Valdez told the Times that the death of Cheney's victim would prompt a new report from the local sheriff and, probably, a grand jury investigation. "The victim probably told the sheriff's department it was an accident," Valdez says. "Now, if the worst happens and the man happens to die, we would take an additional step."

As the Times explains, "even an accidental hunting fatality" can lead to criminal charges if prosecutors or a grand jury believed that Cheney acted negligently in turning to shoot at a bird in flight without noticing first that Whittington was in his line of fire.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/politics/15cheney.html?hp&ex=1140066000&en=4115ca90864b33ca&ei=5094&partner=homepage

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 01:03 PM

Wow, reading that report brings something interesting to light:
*Neither party has completed a hunter's safety course*
*Neither party had a hunting stamp*

I think that was a huge no-no for everyone involved. They should have taken a hunter's safety course before heading out hunting and they most definitely should not have been poaching!

IrisHope

02-15-2006, 01:04 PM

I just figured you couldn't spell. Sorry.

LOL

msnicolea

02-15-2006, 01:07 PM

Cheney's Response A Concern In GOPPublic Statement On Shooting Urged

By Jim VandeHei and Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, February 15, 2006; Page A01

Vice President Cheney's slow and unapologetic public response to the accidental shooting of a 78-year-old Texas lawyer is turning the quail-hunting mishap into a political liability for the Bush administration and is prompting senior White House officials to press Cheney to publicly address the issue as early as today, several prominent Republicans said yesterday.

The Republicans said Cheney should have immediately disclosed the shooting Saturday night to avoid even the suggestion of a coverup and should have offered a public apology for his role in accidentally shooting Harry Whittington, a GOP lawyer from Austin. Whittington was hospitalized Saturday night in Corpus Christi, Tex., and was moved back into the intensive-care unit after suffering an abnormal heart rhythm yesterday morning.

"I cannot believe he does not look back and say this should have been handled differently," said Vin Weber, a former Republican congressman from Minnesota who is close to the White House. Weber said Cheney "made it a much bigger issue than it needed to be."

Marlin Fitzwater, a former Republican White House spokesman, told Editor & Publisher magazine that Cheney "ignored his responsibility to the American people."

The episode is turning into a defining moment for Cheney, a vice president who has operated with enormous clout to shape White House policy while avoiding public scrutiny over the past five years.

President Bush has allowed Cheney to become perhaps the most powerful vice president in history and has provided him with unparalleled autonomy. Early in Bush's first term, Cheney developed the administration's energy policy, largely behind closed doors, and then heavily influenced Iraq policy after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

No evidence has emerged to suggest that the shooting was anything more than a hunting accident, but the spectacle of the vice president wounding a prominent Republican at an exclusive Texas ranch has become the punch line for politicians and comedians alike, and has penetrated the popular culture through late-night television. Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) said he referred to Cheney as the "shooter in chief" in a meeting with members of Congress yesterday morning. It has also raised anew criticism of Cheney's operating style.

Cheney has avoided public comment on the shooting other than to release two short statements. One stated that he would be issued a warning for not paying a $7 hunting fee in Texas; the other, released by his office yesterday, detailed when he learned of Whittington's worsening condition and said his "thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Whittington and his family."

Whittington suffered an irregular heartbeat yesterday after a shotgun pellet in his chest traveled to his heart, according to hospital officials in Corpus Christi.

Some current and former White House officials said Cheney's refusal to address the issue or accept any blame has the potential to become a political problem for Bush because it reinforces the image of a secretive and above-the-law White House. Top White House aides are pressuring Cheney to discuss the incident as early as today, according to people familiar with the matter.

Cheney, a former House member, White House chief of staff and corporate executive, is dismissive of the national media and unfazed by criticism and unflattering publicity. Bush picked Cheney as vice president in large part because of his lack of political ambitions and his ability to keep confidences.

"If I read Dick Cheney right, he's got to be just devastated" by the shooting incident, said Robert H. Michel, a former House Republican leader from Illinois and a longtime friend. But Michel said he is mystified that the vice president has not come out in public to express his feelings.

"I guess he's so measured with what he does say personally, but boy, I'd think on something of this nature, you'd let your feelings [be] known," Michel said.

In general, Michel said, Cheney has "enclosed" his personal feelings so tightly to avoid showing them in public. "I guess that discipline upon himself is probably the thing that holds him back." Cheney, he added, is virtually immune to public criticism and image problems: "I don't think he really cares."
Former senator Alan K. Simpson, a fellow Wyoming Republican who hunts with Cheney, said the vice president decided when he was defense secretary during the Persian Gulf War that journalists ask "stupid questions" and distort things, and so he probably sees no need to publicly explain himself.

"Whatever he does, Dick will do it his own way, because whatever he does, it will be the subject of ridicule," Simpson said.

That disregard for public approval, though, can become a problem for the White House, according to veteran presidential aides from both parties. "When the vice president is immune to politics and tone-deaf to politics, as Vice President Cheney has shown himself to be at various stages along the way, then his perspective on this kind of situation isn't as sharp," said Ronald A. Klain, chief of staff to Vice President Al Gore.

Despite a string of political embarrassments linked to Cheney, including not finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the indictment of the vice president's chief of staff in the CIA leak case and now the shooting, he remains a powerful force inside the White House.

A testament to his power is the deference Bush showed Cheney in the handling of last weekend's shooting episode. White House aides said Bush has not pressured Cheney to disclose more details about the shooting or to apologize.

One person close to both men said that Bush is the only person in the White House who could persuade Cheney to change strategy and that even high-level White House aides are reluctant to take on the vice president's office. That left White House press secretary Scott McClellan to be battered by reporters on national television.

"This is one of the challenges of having a high-profile, very powerful vice president inside the White House," said Klain, who added: "The disadvantage is when something negative happens involving the vice president, it is much harder for the White House staff to step in and exert control."

Typically, the relationships between vice presidents and White House staffs are fraught with politics and personal ambitions because nearly every modern vice president has used the position as a launching pad for his own campaign for the top job. With Cheney, Republicans have often boasted that no such dynamic would get in the way because he does not covet the presidency. Cheney has said he will never run for president.

Nonetheless, the relationship has become increasingly complicated. With no political future of his own at stake, Cheney seems indifferent to public perceptions of him. He prefers not to talk with reporters, favoring red-meat speeches before friendly audiences such as last week's Conservative Political Action Committee gathering or call-in chats to conservative radio hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity.

His approval rating dropped to an all-time low of 36 percent in November, according to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll, before rebounding to 41 percent last month. Although White House officials disagree, some outside Republicans wonder whether he has lost influence because his aggressive promotion of the Iraq war led to the CIA leak case and the indictment of his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who resigned after being charged.

Mary Matalin, a Cheney adviser who has helped him deal with the shooting fallout, rejected suggestions that the White House's handling of the incident might result in political damage. "We have a history replete with evidence to the contrary," she said. "Every time we've had predictions of monumental liability, it never occurred."

IrisHope

02-15-2006, 01:10 PM

It's funny how some people just jump to excuse him for his actions merely because he's a republican.

chrisinluv

02-15-2006, 01:21 PM

I suggest you try to edumacate yourself a little more before trying to kid a kidder.

President Bush, what on earth are you doing frequeting CC? I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I understand the need to "protect your identity" by choosing the feminine username; so I would encourage you to take the next step by getting Condi to check your spelling before you post. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 01:21 PM

You mean the accident report with the "Hunter's judgment factor" box checked and the "Victim moved into line of fire" box empty?

No, I'm talking about where they both violated not having a permit to shoot that kind of bird. They both shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Small detail, but nonetheless, that's the way I look at it.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 01:22 PM

President Bush, what on earth are you doing frequeting CC? I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I understand the need to "protect your identity" by choosing the feminine username; so I would encourage you to take the next step by getting Condi to check your spelling before you post. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

Same with you dollface. That would be frequenting, not frequeting.

Talk about calling the kettle black! :rolleyes: I didn't know this site was visited by grade schoolers.

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 01:23 PM

President Bush, what on earth are you doing frequeting CC? I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I understand the need to "protect your identity" by choosing the feminine username; so I would encourage you to take the next step by getting Condi to check your spelling before you post. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

Hey now!!! We ALL KNOW that I am President Bush!! :p Don't go giving away my identity to someone else! ;)

Emilie

02-15-2006, 01:23 PM

So the lack of a $7 permit trumps the fact that Cheney SHOT the guy?! Are you kidding me?

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 01:25 PM

So the lack of a $7 permit trumps the fact that Cheney SHOT the guy?! Are you kidding me?

Huh? You aren't talking to me, right? I just think that this was all around a bad situation.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 01:26 PM

So the lack of a $7 permit trumps the fact that Cheney SHOT the guy?! Are you kidding me?

So? They didn't have the permit, they shouldn't have been there. Or are you eluding to the fact that it's Dick Cheney we're talking about here and so he shouldn't have to follow ALL of the rules, like John Q. Public?

In all seriousness, would you even be arguing if nothing had happened and all they got caught for was not having the permit?

Emilie

02-15-2006, 01:26 PM

Huh? You aren't talking to me, right? I just think that this was all around a bad situation.

No, no, no, President Bush ;) I was talking about this post from gi_janearng

No, I'm talking about where they both violated not having a permit to shoot that kind of bird. They both shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Small detail, but nonetheless, that's the way I look at it.

jp'swife

02-15-2006, 01:28 PM

Hey now!!! We ALL KNOW that I am President Bush!! :p Don't go giving away my identity to someone else! ;)

Now wait a second!!!

Just when you think you know someone.....geez!

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 01:28 PM

No, no, no, President Bush ;) I was talking about this post from gi_janearng

Ahh, just checking! :p

I really think that there were some really wrong maneuvers pulled in this situation and I wonder if the reason why they weren't so quick to report it was because they were hunting illegally, and Cheney didn't want to deal with the downfall from that?

Emilie

02-15-2006, 01:28 PM

So? They didn't have the permit, they shouldn't have been there. Or are you eluding to the fact that it's Dick Cheney we're talking about here and so he shouldn't have to follow ALL of the rules, like John Q. Public?

In all seriousness, would you even be arguing if nothing had happened and all they got caught for was not having the permit?

I am arguing the fact that bird shot to the face trumps a $7 permit.
Whittington: didn't have the $7 permit.
Cheney: didn't have the $7 permit AND SHOT someone in the face!

Regardless of whether they should have been, they were there and Cheney shot someone. How in the WORLD can you say that not having a permit is as bad as shooting someone in the face?

chrisinluv

02-15-2006, 01:29 PM

Same with you dollface. That would be frequenting, not frequeting.

Talk about calling the kettle black! :rolleyes: I didn't know this site was visited by grade schoolers.

lol! You got me! I am Queen of the Typos, that's true. But it was a joke, so lighten up.

LyLMyssChaos

Hey now!!! We ALL KNOW that I am President Bush!! Don't go giving away my identity to someone else!

Sorry LMC, I definitely did not mean to slight you. :) (((((But I have to say with regards to your sig, your kids are so darling!)))))

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 01:29 PM

Now wait a second!!!

Just when you think you know someone.....geez!

Well, I may NOT be Georgie, but I have been accused of sharing a brain with him! ;)
And before someone else says it...I know, there isn't much there to share! :p

batgirl

02-15-2006, 01:32 PM

No, I'm talking about where they both violated not having a permit to shoot that kind of bird. They both shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Small detail, but nonetheless, that's the way I look at it.

Although your logic is fascinating (and quite humorous), you never answered the question regarding your quote "It's been pretty much ruled that both parties were at fault" (see post 99). The question was "ruled by whom"? You posted a link to the accident report (which ruled it Cheney's fault)... So I ask again....

Who ruled that both parties were at fault? You?

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 01:32 PM

LyLMyssChaos
Sorry LMC, I definitely did not mean to slight you. :) (((((But I have to say with regards to your sig, your kids are so darling!)))))
Thank you very much, I love my little munchkins!

Emilie

02-15-2006, 01:33 PM

And before someone else says it...I know, there isn't much there to share! :p

Well said. :)

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-15-2006, 01:38 PM

I think it helps to make an analogy to a driving accident when determining fault.

Say they were both in cars, on private property. Neither one has a current license. Cheney backs into Whittington, who was parked, Whittington suffers some minor injuries.
Kind of funny, not a big deal, both might get a minor ticket.

OTOH, if we find out that for some reason, they waited a whole day to let the local sheriff's office check things out and to release the information to the media, it seems a little shadier.

Then it turns out that there were serious medical complications for Whittington, and both men might've been under the influence...
Not good. In fact, pretty bad. And if Whittington died, regardless of whether he was intoxicated as well and didn't have a license either, it would make sense to charge Cheney with manslaughter, wouldn't it?

You know, I do think it's true that this sort of thing happens every day across the nation. However, when it does, and when somebody is seriously injured or dies, the person who was shooting gets charged. I don't think it makes sense to relax the rules because the person involved in the accident just happens to be the Vice President.

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-15-2006, 01:43 PM

In all seriousness, would you even be arguing if nothing had happened and all they got caught for was not having the permit?
I doubt anyone would care much if nothing happened.
But that's the way things are dealt with everyday. You get pulled over for going 15 over the speed limit? You get a ticket, no big deal. OTOH, if you're going 15 over the speed limit and a kid walks into the street, and you hit him, you've got a lot more than a speeding ticket on your hands.

chrisinluv

02-15-2006, 01:55 PM

You know, I do think it's true that this sort of thing happens every day across the nation. However, when it does, and when somebody is seriously injured or dies, the person who was shooting gets charged. I don't think it makes sense to relax the rules because the person involved in the accident just happens to be the Vice President.

I see what you are saying. Who needs relaxation of rules when we have the power of prayer? Hasn't Cheney been spending the last couple days praying? That oughta do it. Plus, ignoring the whole thing and acting like it never happend seems to at least buy a little bit of time.

ysolde

02-15-2006, 01:57 PM

I doubt anyone would care much if nothing happened.
But that's the way things are dealt with everyday. You get pulled over for going 15 over the speed limit? You get a ticket, no big deal. OTOH, if you're going 15 over the speed limit and a kid walks into the street, and you hit him, you've got a lot more than a speeding ticket on your hands.

I think that is a very good analogy.

Emilie

02-15-2006, 02:04 PM

Cheney takes the blame (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060215/pl_nm/cheney_accident_blame_dc)

Cheney took the blame for the accident saying that it "wasn't Harry's fault. You can't blame anyone else."

Good for him for taking some ownership however, I wish he had addressed the reasons behind not releasing it - he just said it was the right call and he is sticking by that.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 02:25 PM

GIJane:

Quick lesson for you: implying that your fellow (well-established and intelligent, I might add) board members are "stoopid," "plainly idiots," or un"edumacated" is not going to win you any friends around here.

Di

An internet chat board is no place to be making friends.

Regardless of whether they should have been, they were there and Cheney shot someone. How in the WORLD can you say that not having a permit is as bad as shooting someone in the face?

You're missing the point. They should never have been there in the first place since they didn't hold the proper permit.

I doubt anyone would care much if nothing happened.
But that's the way things are dealt with everyday. You get pulled over for going 15 over the speed limit? You get a ticket, no big deal. OTOH, if you're going 15 over the speed limit and a kid walks into the street, and you hit him, you've got a lot more than a speeding ticket on your hands.

I understand where you're coming from, but I find it fascinating how some are quick to jump on a politician's ass for an accident when the same is happening almost everyday involving none other than Joe Blow. It's amazing they aren't rushing to fill the boards with reports of the latter, but it just goes to show how our lives revolve around celebrities if we let it.

I'm surprised with as much attention as this is getting that someone isn't screaming that he tried to murder that 78 year old lawyer, cause that's sure what it sounds like from what I've read out of most here.

lawyerlee

02-15-2006, 02:30 PM

An internet chat board is no place to be making friends.
Then why are you here? :confused:

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:32 PM

An internet chat board is no place to be making friends. Fine, change that to respect. In fact, patronizing others and calling them names is a fast way to have everything you say ignored or flamed. If that's what you want, I'd suggest going over to one of the Usenet groups.

Di

chrisinluv

02-15-2006, 02:35 PM

Then why are you here? :confused:

Pres Bush, in West Virginia (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/07/20050704.html) might be able to answer that question.
By advancing the cause of liberty in a troubled part of the world, we will remove a source of instability and violence, and we will lay the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren.

eta: such a noble cause.

gi_janearng

02-15-2006, 02:36 PM

Then why are you here? :confused:

This is an internet discussion board, yes? Hence the name, Constant Chatter? :confused:

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:37 PM

CC a source of violence and instability?? Who knew?! :p

Di

Emilie

02-15-2006, 02:38 PM

You're missing the point. They should never have been there in the first place since they didn't hold the proper permit.

OMG. The point is not whether they should have been there or not - they were. Can't take that back. The point is whether Cheney SHOT SOMEONE, which he did - and read the article I posted - your beloved VP admitted it was all his fault.

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:38 PM

This is an internet discussion board, yes? Hence the name, Constant Chatter? :confused:Yes, and we have our own community rules and etiquette. You might want to read up on those.

Di

batgirl

02-15-2006, 02:39 PM

This is an internet discussion board, yes? Hence the name, Constant Chatter? :confused:

Wow, you ARE smart! (he/she can spell and deduce a subject from a title!)

I am still awaiting an answer to my question. I just love to be wowed by brilliance!

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:40 PM

Back on-topic!

I am glad that Cheney finally spoke about this. I just wish he had done so earlier. Taking responsibility for your actions is a good thing.

Di

batgirl

02-15-2006, 02:43 PM

Back on-topic!

I am glad that Cheney finally spoke about this. I just wish he had done so earlier. Taking responsibility for your actions is a good thing.

Di

I completely agree. I haven't seen it yet... did he at least express some remorse? Maybe Rove told him to shed some tears, too, you know, to humanize him... Regardless, I am glad that he took responsibilty (surprised, but glad). Now I just hope the true victim is okay and released soon.

Well, its been fun! Gotta go catch my bus!

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 02:45 PM

CC a source of violence and instability?? Who knew?! :p

Di

Oh come on, you know better than that! ;) This place thrives on controversy and drama! :p

hockeybrat

02-15-2006, 02:47 PM

Oh come on, you know better than that! ;) This place thrives on controversy and drama! :p

Yes but that doesn't equal violence.

Should we all get into a catfight so we could really qualify?

msnicolea

02-15-2006, 02:47 PM

I'm a lover not a fighter.

chrisinluv

02-15-2006, 02:48 PM

CC a source of violence and instability?? Who knew?! :p

Di

Oh, we are such instigators. I am looking at my cat, who is flopped on top of my monsterous monitor; unaware that there is a gun pointed in the direction of her delicate little paw. By enacting those surveillance techniques, I can deduce that either that nasty handgun avatar needs to go, or poor little kitty needs to find a warmer place to nap! OOPS! It'll be her fault if she gets shot, so pardon me while I find a safer resting place for my cat. [mental note: learn how to call yourself out when there are guns around and you are just getting the cat out of the way]

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 02:48 PM

Yes but that doesn't equal violence.

Should we all get into a catfight so we could really qualify?

LOL That could be arranged, let's see, what topic should I start that would get everyone all in a tizzy??? Perhaps something that we haven't discussed in awhile....:cool:

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:49 PM

This place thrives on controversy and drama! :pTotally different than violence and instability though! :p

Di

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:50 PM

LOL That could be arranged, let's see, what topic should I start that would get everyone all in a tizzy??? Perhaps something that we haven't discussed in awhile....:cool:Pepsi vs Coke
PCs vs Macs
Hamsters vs Ducks

Take your pick!

Di

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 02:50 PM

Totally different than violence and instability though! :p

Di

It all depends on which parties are involved and what the topic at hand is! ;)

dionysia

02-15-2006, 02:51 PM

It all depends on which parties are involved and what the topic at hand is! ;)I can think of very few CCers who I think are unstable. I won't name names, though.

Di

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 02:52 PM

Pepsi vs Coke
PCs vs Macs
Hamsters vs Ducks

Take your pick!

Di

Hmmm, only if we can do ducks with mullets. Cause there is no point in discussing ducks if you don't mention the mullets. :)
http://mikeli.image.pbase.com/u48/fiveholer/small/37077201.IMG_9995.jpg

ysolde

02-15-2006, 02:52 PM

Pepsi vs Coke
PCs vs Macs
Hamsters vs Ducks

Take your pick!

Di

Di, don't you remember? You marry your hamster, you suck your (scrunchie, mulletted) duck! Keep up, ladies! :D

lawyerlee

02-15-2006, 02:53 PM

This is an internet discussion board, yes? Hence the name, Constant Chatter? :confused:
No shit, sherlock. That doesn't mean you come around and be a bitch to everyone. There are rules and accepted ways of conducting yourself. Get a clue. :rolleyes:

IrisHope

02-15-2006, 02:54 PM

Diana, pow pow.

jp'swife

02-15-2006, 02:54 PM

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00000/93/86/376839_m.gif

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00000/30/17/727103_m.gif

I wanna be unstable!!

ysolde

02-15-2006, 02:55 PM

LMC, I think you and I share a brain! Welcome inside my head. :p

ysolde

02-15-2006, 02:56 PM

Hello, Jill! I (heart) Napoleon D.!!!!!

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 02:56 PM

Those are freaking sweet!!! I love Napoleon!

msnicolea

02-15-2006, 02:56 PM

No shit, sherlock. That doesn't mean you come around and be a bitch to everyone. There are rules and accepted ways of conducting yourself. Get a clue. :rolleyes:

Watch out, Di--she's armed!

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 02:58 PM

LMC, I think you and I share a brain! Welcome inside my head. :p

Hey now, I'm already sharing a brain with Georgie, do you got enough room there for all of us?? ;)

ysolde

02-15-2006, 02:59 PM

Hey now, I'm already sharing a brain with Georgie, do you got enough room there for all of us?? ;)

Well, I make up voices for my cats, so I am sure htere's always room for one more. :o

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 03:01 PM

Well, I make up voices for my cats, so I am sure htere's always room for one more. :o

At least your cats are living creatures, I frequently am making up voices for my DD's little people and the animals for Noah's ark. I just don't have the heart to break it to her that giraffes don't talk!:)

jp'swife

02-15-2006, 03:03 PM

I just don't have the heart to break it to her that giraffes don't talk!:)

wha wha what!!!!?????

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00000/95/10/240159_m.gif

dionysia

02-15-2006, 03:20 PM

Watch out, Di--she's armed!With a glittery pistol, even!

Di

dionysia

02-15-2006, 03:21 PM

I have never seen Napoleon Dynamite.

Di

msnicolea

02-15-2006, 03:27 PM

I have never seen Napoleon Dynamite.

Di

You = Dead To Me

ysolde

02-15-2006, 03:30 PM

I have never seen Napoleon Dynamite.

Di

You must rent it RIGHT NOW.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

jp'swife

02-15-2006, 03:39 PM

I have never seen Napoleon Dynamite.

Di

We have the DVD and if it were up to my DH, he would mail it to you free of charge.
He calls him Johnny Dynamo. He's not a fan. :rolleyes:

pocket

02-15-2006, 03:40 PM

But that's the way things are dealt with everyday. You get pulled over for going 15 over the speed limit? You get a ticket, no big deal. OTOH, if you're going 15 over the speed limit and a kid walks into the street, and you hit him, you've got a lot more than a speeding ticket on your hands.

what a good analogy littlef!

lawyerlee

02-15-2006, 03:43 PM

Watch out, Di--she's armed!
True. I'd hate to get shot over some bullshit.

jnettie

02-15-2006, 03:51 PM

Katy

02-15-2006, 03:58 PM

This is an internet discussion board, yes? Hence the name, Constant Chatter? :confused:Actually, (since I was dragged into this thread) we are a message board-based community. There's a whole lot more here than just "discussions" about various topics, but to each their own.

lawyerlee

02-15-2006, 03:59 PM

Actually, (since I was dragged into this thread)
At gun point?! :eek: Buh-dum-bump. ;)

Katy

02-15-2006, 04:15 PM

At gun point?! :eek: Buh-dum-bump. ;)LOL - maybe. maybe not. :p

chefker

02-15-2006, 04:16 PM

I have never seen Napoleon Dynamite.

Di

Umm....neither have I! :o

But, it's in my Netflix queue....there is still hope for me. :)

lawyerlee

02-15-2006, 04:30 PM

Man, I hate when I have to work! I missed out on all the fun!

Hey, since message boards aren't ment to make friends, does that mean I can't be friends with any of you anymore? Because that would make me sad. :(
Well, we could schedule a community-wide flogging for those who haven't yet seen Napolean Dynamite. What's a good time for you? :p

hockeybrat

02-15-2006, 04:45 PM

Well, we could schedule a community-wide flogging for those who haven't yet seen Napolean Dynamite. What's a good time for you? :p

Since I've seen the movie, can I be a flogger?

chefker

02-15-2006, 04:48 PM

Well, we could schedule a community-wide flogging for those who haven't yet seen Napolean Dynamite. What's a good time for you? :p

HEY NOW! I have every intention of watching it, once we finish watching the crap movies DH rented from Netflix, and return those. :)

LDS Angel 19

02-15-2006, 04:49 PM

I love Napoleon too, but is it just me or does this:

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00000/93/86/376839_m.gif

look rather disturbing?

chefker

02-15-2006, 04:50 PM

I love Napoleon too, but is it just me or does this:

http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00000/93/86/376839_m.gif

look rather disturbing?

Yes. Just as troubling as that avatar with David Hasselhoff's crotch. I forget who had that one, but it gave me nightmares. *shudder*

kimbyj

02-15-2006, 05:16 PM

A public service message:

Sigh! Why is it that this topic can't be discussed in a way that people are not called names, cursed at or spoken down to? This requires the very basic principles of common courtesy and human decency. Clearly we are all entitled to our own opinions, however I am sure we can all find a more constructive way to voice them in this thread...please.

I know there are only ONE or two people being downright rude however, I thought I would just remind all of us. Thank you! :D

LyLMyssChaos

02-15-2006, 05:52 PM

Katy

02-15-2006, 06:41 PM

What, there's derailing going on in here?!?! Why didn't someone warn me?!?!

um...I never saw Napoleon Dynamite either (and I'm proud of that!)

jnettie

02-15-2006, 06:42 PM

Well, gee, I haven't seen Napoleon Dynomite either... so I'm for getting us back on track or I may have to run for cover!

jp'swife

02-15-2006, 07:03 PM

My fault for the Napoleon derailment. I just didn't see too much real discussion going on anymore and the mood was just a little too nasty.....
sorry.

MLA

02-15-2006, 07:25 PM

Okay, I'm outing myself. I saw Napoleon Dynamite and didn't think it was all that. Although it does have some good lines that I like to pepper my conversation with.

Please don't hate me.

pocket

02-15-2006, 08:54 PM

lawyergirl25

02-15-2006, 09:06 PM

Okay, I'm outing myself. I saw Napoleon Dynamite and didn't think it was all that. Although it does have some good lines that I like to pepper my conversation with.

Please don't hate me.
I'm with you on this one. I thought it was a funny movie, but not the cinematic genius my friends insisted it was. Best part for me was Napoleon's dance scene and that was because I love Jamiroquai and was excited to hear Canned Heat! :)

kimbyj

02-15-2006, 09:09 PM

Oh man, you're such a downer!! I thought we derailed this thread A LONG time ago! :p Who still wants to discuss the topic this thread started with;) ???
Yeah, kind of sucks when I started the thread and hoped for it to stay on topic - I know.

Edited to say: I also don't believe we have to keep up the vicious nonsense!!! WINK!!!

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-16-2006, 06:28 AM

Edited to say: I also don't believe we have to keep up the vicious nonsense!!! WINK!!!
Vicious nonsense?

jnettie

02-16-2006, 08:20 AM

Well, I thought ya'll did really well. No one was really ever too vicious. Sarcastic, yes! Vicious, no. MLK jr and Ghandi had passive resistance, we have sarcastic resistance!

Chatters of the world unite!

IrisHope

02-16-2006, 08:26 AM

Did somebody delete all of her posts?

dionysia

02-16-2006, 08:27 AM

You = Dead To MeYou = Film Snob

Di

dionysia

02-16-2006, 08:29 AM

Did somebody delete all of her posts?
I guess so.

I was looking forward to reading them. Shame on me for not logging in last night and watching the Olympics instead!

"Vicious nonsense?"

I didn't hear Sid's version of "My Way;" did any of you?

Di

jnettie

02-16-2006, 08:37 AM

I think she's gone! :eek:

IrisHope

02-16-2006, 08:37 AM

buh bye...

ysolde

02-16-2006, 08:41 AM

Look, it's a tr . . . , nameless creature, heading for the hills!

dionysia

02-16-2006, 08:42 AM

TRibble
TRoglodyte
TRiceratops

:confused:
;)

Di

Delta

02-16-2006, 09:07 PM

Can I put this thread back in topic?

I am glad Cheney did the interview finally. I felt for him. I don't think he handled it the best way, but he's clearly traumatized (not necessarily an excuse, I'm just sayin'.) The only thing I wish he hadn't done was say that the WH press was jus jellus of the Corpus paper. I don't think that's true. I do think that the WH has an obligation to put that kind of story out on the national wire first. Cheney just has a deep and abiding distain for the national media. That is very clear. I can understand that, but you've still got to be smart and not cut off your nose to spite your face.

I hope Harry recovers quickly.

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-16-2006, 11:01 PM

And just yesterday, I thought it was all about Cheney doing what he wanted, when he wanted. Whatever excuse flies, I guess.

Delta

02-16-2006, 11:23 PM

And just yesterday, I thought it was all about Cheney doing what he wanted, when he wanted. Whatever excuse flies, I guess.
I was just saying I'm glad he finally came out and said something. I don't see how that contradicts anything else I've said.

LittleFredPunkinHead

02-17-2006, 09:03 AM

I was just saying I'm glad he finally came out and said something. I don't see how that contradicts anything else I've said.
Sorry, that was me taking a potshot as I was PUI last night. :o You're right, it doesn't contradict what you said. Sigh! Now please do say something to contradict yourself so I can feel better about myself. ;)

Delta

02-17-2006, 09:15 AM

as I was PUI last nightI sooo knew it. We've all done it.

Delta

02-17-2006, 11:54 AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3666111.html

The Austin attorney accidentally shot last week by Vice President Dick Cheney said he was "deeply sorry" for all that Cheney and his family had been through in the past week in his first public statement since the incident.

Whittington greeted a crowd of journalists outside the Corpus Christi hospital where he has been recovering since being hit by birdshot on a hunting outing with Cheney last Saturday.

"I regret I couldn't have been here earlier so you can see what a lucky man I am," Whittington said.

msnicolea

02-20-2006, 10:23 AM

"It has been brought to the Vice President's attention by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department this afternoon that, although he had acquired a 125 dollar Texas non-resident season hunting license, he lacked a 7 dollar stamp for hunting upland game birds.... The Vice President has sent a 7 dollar check to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, which is the cost of an upland game bird stamp."

- First public statement from the office of Vice President Dick Cheney two days after he mistakenly shot Harry Whittington, a lawyer. A second statement, four days after the incident, described Whittington's medical condition, and that Cheney's "thoughts and prayers are with Mr. Whittington and his family."

Rosebud

02-28-2006, 04:51 PM

Just saw this shirt and it cracked me up.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6625/1035/400/US-NEWS-CHENEY-TSHIRT-2-KRT.jpg