Anyone move to Europe temporarily?

[houseblend]

I have always wanted to go to Europe and spend a year there, staying in different countries and taking in all the history and culture. DH and I were recently thinking of taking a vacation there, but after more thinking, realized we are at a good point in life where if we sold our house (which we were considering anyway) we could actually spend 6 months to a year there. Our jobs fortunately allow us to work from anywhere.

My two main concerns are:
1. Health care - would we have to get additional coverage for Europe? How does medical care work there for visitors?

2. Finding short-term apartment rentals - I've searched the internet and mostly find vacation rentals on a weekly basis, but we would be interested in staying each place for 2-3 months. Where do you find such places?

There are a lot of factors to consider in whether or not we would actually do this, so I would welcome any additional tips or advice as well!

[tlew12778]

There are a bunch of us here that live in Europe. You should come over to the international members thread in the Misc. section.

Where do you have in mind?

For the EU countries, (at least, I think this is applicable in all of them since we basically share a healthcare system), once you have coverage in one, you have coverage in all of them. There is an EU national healthcare card that is valid in all the countries. In Italy, you need to show that you are paying into the national healthcare system through your taxes in order to get your residency permit (and sometimes your visa). Generally, you can get your visa by showing your current US coverage (provided it has some intl coverage policy) then you can get your residency permit with EU coverage. I could go into specifics but the rules will vary slightly country to country and your tax withholdings will change based on however you decide to declare your earnings. Anyway, once you pay into the system (I pay 5% of my gross taxabale income each month), you have the same coverage as any EU citizen.

For an apt, your best bet is contacting expat real estate agents that specialise in short term leases. If you are planning on staying a year though, you can get a better deal by working with local real estate agents (adding "expat" to anything with a pricetag is like adding "wedding" to anything with a pricetag... the cost increases exponentially). Another option is a serviced apartment, sometimes called a residence, that are essentially long term hotel suites. You could also try some local expat forums for ads for each specific city in which you are interested. You can find these on MSN or Yahoo usually.

Come visit us on the intl members board. We have members in the UK, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Norway, Greece and Italy of course :).

[houseblend]

Thanks for the invite, Tiffany! I will stop by!

You bring up an interesting point with the health coverage. I don't think we were considering getting visas. Do we need them if we stay employed with our current jobs based in the U.S.? Also, while we would be in Europe for up to a year, we were thinking of spending 3 months max per country. I know nothing about the legality of these things, so more to research! The main countries we are thinking of spending time in are Switzerland and Italy and then possibly France or the Netherlands.

I've been browsing trying to find some expat forums but haven't had much luck so far. I've mostly focused broadly on Europe, though, so I think I'll try to narrow down to a specific place and see if I can get more info.

Thanks again!

[emmjay]

If you aren't going to get visas, you'll have to look into the Schengen Agreement. I am going off of memory here, but IIRC it states that as a US citizen you can stay in most EU countries for a total of 90 days in a 6 month period - you can't go to a new country and have the 90 days start over. It excludes the UK and Ireland, and includes all EU countries plus Switzerland, Iceland and Norway. So, if you were without visas and stayed for an entire year you would be there illegally for 9 months. Some people are willing to risk it, but when you went back to the US you would have someone looking at your passport and they might notice the dates.

[Mrs U]

I know here in Switzerland one has to have basic health insurance- either from the US or from a Swiss based company. It might be easier to see if your health insurance offers an extented coverage package.

As for apartment short term rentals, I can tell you that here in Switzerland it wont be cheap. You may want to call the weekly ones to see if they will do a deal for a couple of months. Plan on spending around 2,500 Francs/month with food allowance of 1000 Francs (darn expensive country to live in, but so worth it!)

You might want to check out this English site for x- pats in Switzerland: www.xpatxchange.ch

[houseblend]

emmjay - Thanks so much for the info! I've been researching the Schengan Agreement. The language is a bit tricky, but I think to be on the safe side we will have to look at getting a visa. On the good side, though, it doesn't appear to be too difficult to get one.

Mrs U - Thanks for stopping by! We went to Switzerland for our honeymoon and fell in love with the country. Switzerland is definitely on our list for spending a lot of time. 2500 Francs is a lot for an apartment, but I'm assuming we can save by not dining out. Are groceries really that more expensive as well? Do you find that the apartments in smaller towns are cheaper? When we went there before we stayed in a smaller town called Altdorf. We would love to go back there again. Anyway, I envy you for living over there. It is definitely a great country! I'll check out the website as well.

[tlew12778]

Oh yeah, here is one of the expat sites for Italy:
http://expatsinitaly.com/

There is also a chat on MSN called Expats in Italy but it's been a little dead lately.

[Asha]

I have always wanted to go to Europe and spend a year there, staying in different countries and taking in all the history and culture. DH and I were recently thinking of taking a vacation there, but after more thinking, realized we are at a good point in life where if we sold our house (which we were considering anyway) we could actually spend 6 months to a year there.

that is my dream! i still have to convince dh to get on board with it, though.

as far as health insurance, couldn't you just get some traveller's insurance? that will cover you for most emergencies, and it is a lot cheaper than getting regular health insurance.

why are you not getting a visa? i don't think it is that difficult to apply for and get a visa granted as long as you are not interested in taking up permanent residence anywhere.

[emmjay]

emmjay - Thanks so much for the info! I've been researching the Schengan Agreement. The language is a bit tricky, but I think to be on the safe side we will have to look at getting a visa. On the good side, though, it doesn't appear to be too difficult to get one.

That's probably the best way - I know there are people who just stay illegally but I think for peace of mind I personally would prefer the visa!

We were in Europe for several months in 2004 and we didn't even know about the Schengen Agreement until we got to Italy from Slovenia (non-Schengen, or at least it was in 2004). Then we realized that if we went to Spain for 3 months like we had planned we would have been there illegally b/c we had already been to Germany and Italy. We ended up totally changing our plans and going to Morocco because we didn't want to risk any trouble at passport control.

For apartments - we found one in Spain that was a weekly vacation rental but we emailed him and asked for a discount if we stayed for a month instead of a week. That might be an option if you can only find vacation rentals.

As for insurance - if your current insurance won't work, you can get traveler's insurance like rebjc said. When I was out of the US for an extended period of time we had Global Travel Insurance (http://www.globaltravelinsurance.com) and we had an additional emergency policy for emergency evacuation (we were in mostly developing countries). The Global Travel Insurance was pretty reasonable - it really was just for emergencies, not preventative care or routine stuff.

I think it's awesome that you are going to do this - I don't think a lot of people would even come up with this as an option.

[houseblend]

Tiffany - Thank you! I will check it out!

rebj - Ironically, while I've always wanted to do this, DH is the one convincing me we could actually do it (he does not love traveling as much as I do). We're seriously looking at it, but it feels too good to be true!

I've done some more research on the insurance and found some companies that extend coverage internationally if we feel the need. DH and I are both fairly healthy, so we likely won't have any problems, but I worry that traveling will make us more susceptible to illness. Of course, I'm a natural worrier, so I like to prepare for the worst! We have also been TTC, so that throws a kicker into this as well. We may delay TTC until we get over there and then once I get a BFP, stay there for the first few months. As far as the visa, I'm not opposed to getting one, it's more I'm just not familiar with these things (the necessity, the requirements, etc.). Now that I know a bit more, we will probably go ahead and get them.

[houseblend]

emmjay - (Sorry - We crossposted.) I had actually been looking at Global Travel. It looked like they had some policies that included routine stuff as well. Did you have any problems with them?

Asking for a discount for extended stays is a great idea. It is definitely easier to find vacation rentals than apartments from what I have seen so far, but that may be just knowing where to look as well.

Thanks for all the great advice!

[emmjay]

We actually never had to use them at all! When we did get sick/injured it was basic stuff like colds, a few viruses, traveler's diarrhea, etc. I did have to go to the doctor a couple of times in S. America but it was so cheap I just paid for it out of pocket.

In terms of dealing with the company, from what I remember they were very helpful and I didn't have any problems setting up the policy.

We were just being cheap so we had a huge deductible and basic emergency care in case we were in an accident or something.

[tlew12778]

OK personally if you want to be pregnant in Europe, I would seriously consider being on whatever national healthcare plan is offered in your host country. Reason being is that private healthcare is VERY expensive. My OB/gyn charges me 100 euro just for the visit, not including any tests. I could go through the national healthcare system and have the same stuff done for 1/3 of the price. The reason I don't is bc the one time I did that, I ended up seeing one of FH's friends (the medical community is way too small for me). Never again!

If you are natl healthcare, pregnancy is almost free. As is infertility treatment BTW. Many travel insurances will not cover something routine like a pregnancy (although an intl extension on your regular insurance prob. will). Just make sure you read the fine print on everything.

[Mrs U]

Groceries are really that expensive. Meat is the costly part because it's all done measured out in grams unlike EU with kilos. For 2 chicken breasts, it cost us 12 Francs.Going out to eat expect to pay with a semi good wine about 120 Francs (McD's costs 23 Francs for 2 small menue meals to give you an idea.) We set ourselves an allowance of 1000 Francs- some months it's spot on, others we can save a 100.

Each canton is different in rental price due to taxes. Where I live in Zug (20 minutes east of Luzern), apartments are expensive since we have a lower tax rate. 2500 is a rough estimate for a fully furnished short term apartment rental- depending where its located, which season you'll be here, and how many rooms are needed.

Altdorf isnt too far away- 40 minute drive. We pass it all the time driving down to Andermatt for an afternoon outing on the weekends.

HTH!:D

[houseblend]

Tiffany and Mrs. U (or anyone else living abroad) - What kind of internet access is available in Italy and Switzerland (broadband, 3G)? Do you know how fast it is and how easily available it is?

ETA: Sorry if this seems like a silly question. DH mentioned he thinks that Europe is on a different type of connection than the U.S.

[tlew12778]

I work in telecom so I can tell you all about this.

Telecom technology in Italy (not sure about CH but prob there as well) is more advanced in the US. Europe and Asia are the testing grounds for most next-gen telecom services. That said, we currently have a fiber optic connection. We have had fiber optic service for over 3 years. "Fiber to the Surface" as it is called in the US, was just introduced last year I believe. Our service includes internet, phone, and television. We pay about 70 euro a month although we have the most expensive package. FMIL pays something like 15 euro a month.

3G refers to UMTS service. In the US you have EDGE. This is for navigating the internet with a cellular connection. They are currently installing HSDPA infrastructure to bring connections speeds of ADSL level to your laptop while on the go.

What is different is the cellular platform that we use. GSM is used across Europe while in the US you have mostly CDMA, some GSM, PCS, Tacs (analog), and one more that I don't remember. If you have AT&T, T-Mobile or Cingular you have GSM phones. But unless they are tri-band, they will not work in Europe (we use 900-1800 Mhz while the US uses 800-1900 Mhz). To further complicate the matter, most telephones in the US are operator locked meaning that you will not be able to just switch to a local provider upon your arrival in Europe (keeping the same handset). Mobile phones in Europe (with the exception of those sold by the company H3g) are not operator locked. You can therefore switch btwn providers at will.

Cell phones are often cheaper overall if you are not planning on staying in a country for a long time. Instaling a land line is expensive, as is its upkeep (basic charges). Until about 7 years ago, fixed line providers were state-run and they used monopoly pricing practices. As a result, basic charges are still very high. I currently pay 10 eurocents per minute for cell calls. We do not pay for incoming calls. The connection fee is 10 cents as is the text messaging fee. We also have packages similar to the US now where you pay xx per month and you get xxxx minutes per month (although this is a new phenomenon here).

[Mrs. M.]

You could consider Austria... you've got the landscape like Switzerland, but the cost of living is much lower, and you are still in the very middle of Europe with easy acces to lots of coutries. Excellent medical care too... I am on the natl. healthcare system and have never had to pay for anything (including a birth).

Vienna has a large expat community (UN offices are here) and a great support system for expat moms.

[houseblend]

Tiffany - Thanks so much for the info! I will admit to being pretty unknowledgeable about technology. All these terms make my head swim a bit!

Hopefully I can phrase this next question in a way that makes sense then. If we were in Italy and wanted to be able to access the internet from our apartment, but did not want to have to set-up through cable/landline, what are our options? Basically we would want the internet with cellular connection you were mentioning. Do you know any good providers? How fast would it go? DH's job is in technology, so being able to have this access would make finding an apartment much easier since we wouldn't have to limit it to those that already have connections. We also have VOIP phones through work, so I'm thinking that would eliminate our need for a phone line there.

Mrs. M. - For some reason I hadn't even been looking at Austria, but I think that may be a really good option. I visited there briefly after high school and really liked it there. I'll definitely look more into that!

[tlew12778]

If his work will pay for your internet connection, then you want to get a mobile connect card. You can get them from any of the wireless providers here but they are spendy (around 200 euro just for the card). Right now, they are running on the UMTS network and there are package deals for xx euro per month that includes xx euro worth of traffic (traffic is measured by how much you download (even a webpage counts)). For daily use this is generally NOT the most economical mode of connecting to the net. BUt if a company is paying, that's another story. As for speed, slower than DSL but faster than dial-up.

The major providers here are TIM, Vodafone, Wind, and Tre. You can access all of their websites by adding .it to their names.

By the time you move here, the HSDPA network should be installed. I know that Vodafone is planning on launching theirs in Sept. 2006. The pricing packages are not out for that yet.

[houseblend]

Well, the company is paying for it, but I'm in charge of the finances for the company, so we still have to watch how much we spend unfortunately . It sounds like the best option for us is still to find an apartment that already has the connection or that will allow us to hook up for that short of time. I'll keep my eye out for the HSDPA. That would make perfect timing if it is set up by then!