FEMA cuts off hotel subsidies to Katrina survivors TODAY

[batgirl]

I am amazed at how little news attention this has gotten... I looked at all the major news websites including cbs, abc, msnbc, cnn and couldn't find a postable story. Here's bits from a story on salon.com (but I can't provide the link because it requires a membership).

Homeless again in New Orleans
When FEMA cuts off their hotel subsidies Feb. 7, thousands of Katrina victims will be forced into the streets.

Feb. 7, 2006 | NEW ORLEANS -- Without having a lot of money, it's almost impossible to find a place to live in New Orleans. People who came here after Hurricane Katrina, seeking rebuilding jobs, figured they could rent apartments or cheap rooms. But there's little housing to be had in Crescent City, and what is available rents for double what it cost before.

With nowhere to go, dozens of people have taken up residence in New Orleans City Park, sleeping in tents or under jury-rigged blue tarps. A group of Apache Indians from Arizona has even set up a teepee. Seeking to impose some sort of order, the city contracted with an Alabama firm called Storm Force, which has corralled people into a few manageable fields and started charging $300 a month for muddy plots big enough for four or five tents, huddled close together. Showers are available for $5.

Officials say New Orleans can't handle an influx of traumatized, homeless families, but that may be what it is about to get. Five months after Hurricane Katrina, many of the storm's victims are facing a second crisis. The Federal Emergency Management Agency is ending its hotel subsidy program despite the fact that thousands of Katrina victims have nowhere else to go. Thousands of evacuees will be cut off Feb. 7, and almost all will lose their hotel rooms by early March. Advocates for Katrina evacuees are terrified about what will happen next.

On Feb. 6, FEMA held a press conference to brief reporters on the impending end of the hotel program. Little was said that would ease Washington's fears. "We have spent more than $529 million on this emergency sheltering program," said Libby Turner, head of FEMA's transitional housing program for hurricanes Katrina and Rita. "It is not long-term housing assistance that can continue for folks, and it is not what moves them along in their recovery. So we are working to end this program. Throughout disaster history, our partners have addressed the populations that do not qualify for federal assistance, most typically state departments of social and health services and charitable partners like voluntary organizations."

Have you guys seen much coverage about this? Does anyone know if FEMA (or other agency) have even begun to rebuild homes in New Orleans? What about people who had homeowners insurance? I guess I'm just really concerned about these people. Where did all the donations go?

ETA: here's a link to yahoonews...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060207/ap_on_re_us/katrina_evacuees_hotels;_ylt=AhfF6hk.yc8tnXZbb1m7t xSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

[allyray231]

I heard this on the local news of all places today. I don't think they have starting building anything

[GeekGirl]

Um...and what is FEMA suggesting as a housing alternative for these people who have lost everything...including the means to their livelihood??

[BTB]

Actually, I've heard a lot about this on cable news for the past month. They (networks) have been mentioning the impending deadline as it approaches. No one need be forced out into the streets, it is possible to apply for a continuation of funds and the networks have been plastering that number up on the screen for a while. I'm actually surprised that article leaves that part out, seems kinda important to include that. People aren't being completely cut off - the automatic payment is what's ending. If continuing need is demonstrated funds are still available.

[BethIrish]

I know the Red Cross has been gearing up to re-open shelters down in that area. (My Dad was down there volunteering for a month after the hurricane -it looks like he will be leaving to go back down next week.)

[thedoorchick]

I've been hearing about this for a couple of months now.

[allyray231]

See the way the news said it today was that people who were living in hotels had to now pay for it themselves or find another place to live. They could ask for a week extenstion of something

[LIZNKEITH]

I've been hearing a lot about it, too. I guess because Atlanta has taken in so many evacuees. From what I understand, they are cutting off everyone who hasn't applied for further assistance (through some other agency or something). It's just the people who haven't applied for the continuation of funds (as BTB mentioned). I think I heard that it's about 1500 people that will be affected.

[BTB]

What I heard was that the minimum extension granted was one week, and that the continued payment was approved on a case-by-case basis. People aren't just out on the streets, their eligibility for rental assistance and other forms of help are considered. It's far cheaper to help people get apartments and such than to continue to pay for hotels. I really don't see why anyone would be upset by this.

Here's the FEMA website pertaining to the issuing of hotel codes:

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=22960

Here's the important part:

The FEMA authorization code program has a few, simple important dates:

January 30, 2006. Evacuees must request an authorization code by Jan. 30, 2006, in order to extend the federal subsidy for their hotel stay beyond February 7, 2006.
February 7, 2006. If an evacuee does not get an authorization code by Jan. 30, 2006, FEMA will stop paying for that hotel room on Feb. 7, 2006.
February 13, 2006. If an evacuee gets an authorization code by Jan. 30, 2006, FEMA will continue to pay for that hotel room until at least Feb. 13, 2006.
If evacuees have not received an eligibility decision on temporary housing assistance by Jan. 30, 2006, FEMA will continue to pay for that hotel room through March 1, 2006, or two weeks after receiving eligibility determination, whichever is later. In every case, FEMA will fund the hotel or motel room for evacuees for two weeks after they have received a determination on their request for assistance from FEMA. Evacuees DO NOT need to complete a Small Business Administration loan application to be eligible for FEMA housing assistance.

When an evacuee calls for their authorization code, FEMA will let them know when FEMA will stop paying for their hotel room.
The authorization code allows FEMA to work closely with individuals and families displaced by the hurricanes to ensure they are registered with FEMA for assistance and to ensure they are fully processed for rental assistance eligibility before making the transition to longer-term housing. In addition, the authorization code process will help FEMA make referrals to other assistance sources if individuals are not eligible for FEMA programs and will aid in identifying individuals who may be attempting to exploit the program.

FEMA initiated an extensive outreach effort to help people understand program end dates and access other forms of assistance to help them with longer term housing solutions. In addition to the community relations teams that have been fanning out and canvassing hotels in an effort to reach those still residing in hotels and motels, flyers and notices have been placed in every room occupied by hurricane evacuees on five occasions since January 9th announcement that the program would be coming to an end. Ads have also been placed in newspapers across the country, including publications targeting multilingual and multiethnic populations.

[allyray231]

Ahh interesting :) Thanks

[isign]

Just wanted to add a few things - first, this isn't just happening in NOLA, but here in Gulfport & Pass Christian & Long Beach & Biloxi & several other cities too, I think the media forgets that. Also, in *some* cases, there is obvious abuse going on, not just with the rooms, but with the FEMA trailers as well. There is a guy that we know who moved out of state, got married, and now is back (due to lack of inative on his part in getting a job) and living in someone else's FEMA trailer. The person/family already has a new home and instead of turning the trailer back in so someone else can use it - like those in hotels - this couple is living in it rent free.
*Some* people took their FEMA & Red Cross $$ and blew it on random wants, and now are stuck in the problem of looking for shelter with out any money.
FEMA is still offering rental assistance to people in need. They will be here & in NOLA for years to come.

[Aimee]

The story on salon is a bit misleading. It's making it sound like families are living in tents in City Park, because they have no choices, when that's not the case. There are people doing that, but as far as I know, they are all contractors and construction workers, who are here voluntarily, and are being paid quite well for their services.

I don't think they have starting building anything

Again, this just shows how poorly things are being reported around the country. The area is filled with construction. People are working 7 days a week on their homes, which are in various state of destruction. Many people are still battling their insurance companies, but many others have gotten settlements and are working.

My grandmother got about 4 feet of water, all storm surge (i.e., it came in and went out over the course of a day, it didn't sit for weeks upon end). She would have been eligible for the FEMA hotel program, but is instead living with my mom. Her house is about 90% completed, and all we're really waiting on is carpet. I know anectodal evidence is generally frowned upon here, but, as someone who has been back living in the hurricane zone since September 6, one week after Katrina hit, I can assure you that there have been massive rebuilding efforts.

There is so much construction going on here, there's a shortage of materials and workers.

[Aimee]

Just wanted to add a few things - first, this isn't just happening in NOLA, but here in Gulfport & Pass Christian & Long Beach & Biloxi & several other cities too, I think the media forgets that. Also, in *some* cases, there is obvious abuse going on, not just with the rooms, but with the FEMA trailers as well. There is a guy that we know who moved out of state, got married, and now is back (due to lack of inative on his part in getting a job) and living in someone else's FEMA trailer. The person/family already has a new home and instead of turning the trailer back in so someone else can use it - like those in hotels - this couple is living in it rent free.
*Some* people took their FEMA & Red Cross $$ and blew it on random wants, and now are stuck in the problem of looking for shelter with out any money.
FEMA is still offering rental assistance to people in need. They will be here & in NOLA for years to come.

ITA, Julie! It's amazing how unethical people have been when it comes to all this stuff - if they just used their efforts and energy to do things properly, they'd get ahead a lot faster than by all the scheming.

It has been 5 months and in that time, the vast majority of people have figured out how to take care of themselves, one way or another. It is far cheaper for FEMA to offer rental assistance for people than it is to put them up in hotels. The hotel program was a stopgap measure to get people out of shelters, but was never intended to be permanent.

[mamahammer]

Maybe the reason some of us (like thedoorchick and I) have heard about this a lot is due to where we live. Dallas/Houston/Austin took in many of the evacuees, and many of our local hotels have had beds set up in their conference rooms since the evacuation began.

I do think the article is misleading. Their is a ton of construction going on in New Orleans. Rebuilding will be a massively long, tedious process, but it is by no means at a standstill. My parents were able to move back to NOLA in January, and their neighborhood (in the impoverished and hard-struck Orleans parish) is in constant motion as they try to regain some of their footing.

The American Red Cross is still providing financial support for families who need to find housing, and many of the apartment homes in the Dallas area are working with the ARC to match families with housing. We have had many job fairs throughout DFW specifically for Katrina evacuees, with jobs for every skill level. Many states have opened up their unemployment, food stamp and welfare programs to include those from the Gulf States hit by Katrina. And their are massive amounts of faith-based programs providing housing, food and job assistance on an ongoing basis in and around Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi.

Add that to what BTB has already posted about FEMA's assistance for those who show an ongoing need, and I think it's erroneous for that article to imply that the evacuees are being tossed out with nowhere to go and no help in sight.

It will most certainly be hard for those who need to leave the hotel accomodations they have had access to for the past few months. But they will not be without help from many, many agencies.

[BTB]

Maybe the reason some of us (like thedoorchick and I) have heard about this a lot is due to where we live.

I'm sure there's more about it in affected areas, but just sayin': I'm in Illinois and have known about this for about a month.

[boilermaker]

Just to provide a little more info, an article on this is on CNN's front page and has been all day (I read it about 7 am this morning). According to that article, 5000 people of the 20,000 currently still in hotels either did not apply for extensions or were not granted them. It also appears that hotels did provide info to the evacuees so they weren't just tossed out when the day arrived.

Here's the CNN article link:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/07/katrina.hotels.ap/index.html

[batgirl]

Thanks for posting (especially those of you near where Katrina hit). I did cut and paste the salon article a bit (nothing out of context, just couldn't post the whole article because its a members only site). That's why I asked people to post links to websites that people thought to be less biased against FEMA.

Man, boilermaker I swear I checked the cnn website... must have been a momentary lapse in eyesite or something...

BTB actually it said in the salon article (or maybe the yahoo one?) that people in hotels could apply for an extension (thus were not being booted out on Feb 7th). But it said that it was only an extension until early March. Then what?

CBS news did do a slot on this early in the week, and they sounded pretty doombsday, also. It didn't say there was lots of building yet, I think it said that many people WITH homeowners insurance were still struggling to get money to rebuild, that the insurance companies always drag their feet during times of big payout. I've heard that the French quarter is open for business, but honestly that's all I heard (which is why I started this thread). I live in the Midwest, and really haven't heard anything other than on the national news (which never sounds very good)... Do you guys think that America is suffering from Katrina burnout?

Aimee I certainly believe you when you say that there is lots of building going on (which IS what I would expect) but is it only people that have $$ that are able to rebuild? Or are they already building low income housing or apartments or whatever? I just ask because I read somewhere that FEMA must return Katrina survivors that are living in hotels all over the country back to New Orleans once the hotel thing comes to an end. I'm just wondering where they are all going to go, since these are people that won't be able to afford to rebuild.

[BTB]

BTB actually it said in the salon article (or maybe the yahoo one?) that people in hotels could apply for an extension (thus were not being booted out on Feb 7th). But it said that it was only an extension until early March. Then what?

I think that's either a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation. As I quoted above from the FEMA website:

If evacuees have not received an eligibility decision on temporary housing assistance by Jan. 30, 2006, FEMA will continue to pay for that hotel room through March 1, 2006, or two weeks after receiving eligibility determination, whichever is later. In every case, FEMA will fund the hotel or motel room for evacuees for two weeks after they have received a determination on their request for assistance from FEMA.

It's not that assistance runs out in early March, it's that a decision could be delayed as long as March 1st, until which time the hotel room is still paid for.

And, also as stated in what I quoted above, the goal is to get people out of hotel rooms and into long-term housing arrangements. The linked site has more information on rent assistance. There's lots to complain about with FEMA, but frankly I think the news on this has been incredibly biased. IMHO it's a great idea to stop paying for hotels and pay rent on apartments instead. Continuing to pay for hotels indefinitely is poor stewardship - it's simply not cost-effective.

[batgirl]

Thousands of Katrina Victims Evicted
http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/wireStory?id=1592318&page=1

NEW ORLEANS Feb 7, 2006 (AP)— Hauling everything he owned in a plastic garbage bag, Darryl Travis walked out of the chandeliered lobby of the Crowne Plaza, joining the exodus of Hurricane Katrina refugees evicted from their hotel rooms across the country Tuesday.

The occupants of more than 4,500 government-paid hotel rooms were ordered to turn in their keys Tuesday, as the Federal Emergency Management Agency began cutting off money to pay for their stays.

Far more people the occupants of at least 20,000 hotel rooms, many of which housed entire families were given extensions by FEMA until at least next week and possibly until March 1, said FEMA spokesman Butch Kinerney.

FEMA said it gave people every possible opportunity to request an extension.

"We've bent over backward to reach out. We've gone door-to-door to all of the 25,000 hotel rooms no fewer than six times. And there are individuals who have refused to come to the door, refused to answer. There are people who have run when they saw us coming those are the ones that are now moving on," Kinerney said.

FEMA maintains that as many as 80 percent of those being forced to check out this week have made other living arrangements, ranging from trailers to receiving federal rent assistance to living with relatives.

While many of the evacuees leaving the Crowne Plaza said they had found other housing, several said they were now homeless.

Travis, 24, and his five childhood friends all in their 20s had been living on the floor of another evacuee's hotel room, never having registered.

"All I got is a couple pairs of pants and some shirts. The pressure is on," said Jonathan Gautier, 26, one of the six, who was also carrying a single plastic bag filled with clothes.

Wheeling out her boxes of belongings, 20-year-old Katie Kinkella and sister, Jennifer, were heading back to their ruined house in heavily flooded St. Bernard Parish. The sisters had stayed first at the Marriott, and later at the Crowne Plaza as they waited for FEMA to deliver a trailer. Then they waited for FEMA to hook up the electricity at the trailer.

"They just connected it yesterday," Kinkella said as she loaded bags, boxes and suitcases into the back of a pickup on the curb outside the hotel.

In Houston, where 4,000 evacuees were staying in hotels, around 80 percent had received permission to extend their stays until at least Monday. The remaining 20 percent either failed to contact FEMA or made other housing arrangements, said Frank Michel, a spokesman for Mayor Bill White.

"People need to begin to take responsibility for themselves," Michel said.

In New York, around 50 protesters including both evacuees and activists gathered at the steps of City Hall to protest the evictions.

In Oakland, Calif., demonstrators carrying signs and chanting "Evict FEMA" tried to present an eviction notice to employees at a FEMA branch office.

When the more than 50 protesters were turned away, they posted large eviction signs in the front and back of the building. The demonstrators left the property when threatened with arrest.

Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco complained that FEMA was pulling the plug on the hotel program before securing other housing.

Outside the Crowne Plaza, protesters held up signs that said: "No trailers. No eviction."

Brittany Brown, 21, wept as she explained that although she had been given an extension, eviction was now looming next week. She applied for a trailer in October and, although she keeps calling, her trailer has yet to show up.

So it's really not this bad???

[BTB]

So it's really not this bad???

What is bad about other, more permanent arrangements than hotel rooms being made and then enforced after five months? I can't think of a more expensive option than hotel rooms.

"We've bent over backward to reach out. We've gone door-to-door to all of the 25,000 hotel rooms no fewer than six times. And there are individuals who have refused to come to the door, refused to answer. There are people who have run when they saw us coming those are the ones that are now moving on," Kinerney said.

What else are they supposed to do? I was in no way personally affected by Katrina, and I've known of the looming deadline. Would it be better if the free hotel rooms expired in a year? Two years? Three? Never?

[LyLMyssChaos]

This may not be a well received opinion, but I'll share it none the less. I know that these people have been through terrible devistation, but when do they finally start to take care of themselves? I mean, is the government supposed to support them forever because they endured a tragedy? I don't think so. I mean, the government has provided them ample time to make other arrangements, and I think it's time they start taking care of themselves. Take for example, the people in the article who never even bothered to register. Now they are complaining that they have "no where to go." And who's fault is that? They should have registered, gotten the help while it was available, and perhaps they could begin to get back on their feet by now. Instead, they want to cry and act like a victim. The Hurricane happened, it caused great devistation, it was horrible, but it's time for these people to start moving on. They need to start finding jobs and permanent living arrangements. If that means not returning to the area they left? Well, then that's what life has dished out for them, and they need to learn to start dealing with it.

[batgirl]

"We've bent over backward to reach out. We've gone door-to-door to all of the 25,000 hotel rooms no fewer than six times. And there are individuals who have refused to come to the door, refused to answer. There are people who have run when they saw us coming those are the ones that are now moving on," Kinerney said. [/I]


I had a feeling that this was the paragraph you would point out ;)

I agree with you, the hotel thing was a terrible (and expensive) idea. But what my question is... now that people are getting the boot (and they are or will be soon)... is there anywhere for them to go?

[Aimee]

CBS news did do a slot on this early in the week, and they sounded pretty doombsday, also. It didn't say there was lots of building yet, I think it said that many people WITH homeowners insurance were still struggling to get money to rebuild, that the insurance companies always drag their feet during times of big payout. I've heard that the French quarter is open for business, but honestly that's all I heard (which is why I started this thread). I live in the Midwest, and really haven't heard anything other than on the national news (which never sounds very good)... Do you guys think that America is suffering from Katrina burnout?


Yes, the insurance companies have been dragging their feet, and haven't been fair with everyone for payout. It's been a bigger problem, I believe in MS, where the storm surge was wind-driven water, rather than the result of the levee breach. There, the flood companies are saying it's wind and the wind coverage is saying it's flood, and that has been a big problem.

I can't find the link online, but there was an article in the NO Times-Picayune on Sunday that said 69% of homeowners' claims, with an average settlement of $15,641 and 80% of flood claims, at an average of $101,018, have been settled in Louisiana. I'd say those are decent numbers for settlement, considering the expansiveness of this disaster. Even in the minimally-damaged areas, people still had roof damage and downed trees, and adjusting those smaller claims just added to the load of serious damage. But, since you have to file a claim within a certain amount of time, most people didn't want to wait and trusted the insurance companies to prioritize.

Yes, the French Quarter is open for business. As is the central business district, uptown, and many other areas. The fact that the FQ got little damage had nothing to do with bombed levees or any other conspiracy theory. It had everything to do with geography. When the city was founded, it was built at a high spot. Sorry if the rest of the country thinks we're being "frivolous" by "opening" the FQ, like we opened Disneyland before anything else, but to us, it's just a neighborhood. And if a neighborhood isn't badly damaged, we're going to live there. I know so many people have the idea that the FQ is some horrible strip of sin and debauchery, but it's a neighborhood. Yes, there are lots of bars in that neighborhood, mostly on Bourbon St., but there are many more homes, antique shops, offices, and other things in that neighborhood. It was where the city was born the first time and it's where the rebirth is taking place. It's very symbolic for us.


Aimee I certainly believe you when you say that there is lots of building going on (which IS what I would expect) but is it only people that have $$ that are able to rebuild? Or are they already building low income housing or apartments or whatever? I just ask because I read somewhere that FEMA must return Katrina survivors that are living in hotels all over the country back to New Orleans once the hotel thing comes to an end. I'm just wondering where they are all going to go, since these are people that won't be able to afford to rebuild.

This article (http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/index.ssf?/base/money-2/1139122664210420.xml) explains some of the other options that participants in the FEMA hotel program have beyond the temporary housing.

I'm not sure of the progress of the public housing in New Orleans, as some of it was badly damaged. I have seen where some of the developments have opened back up to residents, but that others remain closed due to damage. I'd bet that for most of them, work is being done, or is slated to be done, but things are moving slowly here due to a shortage of contractors and materials.

The article says that people can register for housing vouchers, section 8, etc. through FEMA. My guess is that if people can't return their old development in New Orleans just yet, they can apply to live somewhere else, either in Louisiana, or another state. Just like a lot of homeowners have had to live in other cities/states until they can get in their homes. It's not the best, but it's better than being homeless. We're all in a make-do situation right now and many, many people are not in their homes, regardless of socieoeconomic status.

RE: the article you posted, if you notice, the guy that was "put out" with his friends did not register with FEMA and was sleeping in someone else's room. Had he registered with FEMA, which is relatively simple to do, he may have been granted an extension. At some point, he's got to take responsibility for himself rather than waiting for someone to come to him.

The local news in New Orleans last night showed people leaving the hotels and it was almost a non-event. They had buses waiting to take people to shelters and nobody used them. There were crisis counselors waiting to counsel people and nobody showed up to be counseled. Most people were grateful for the time they had and said that they'd made other arrangements now.

I've said this before, but the hotel program was just a stopgap measure intended to give people a temporary place to live, to get them out of shelters. A lot of people have used the 5 months in the hotel to work on their homes, find a job, set up a new life, etc. Others probably just sat around and waited to see what was going on. 5 months is a long enough time for most people to develop some plan, even if only temporary.

There are a lot of options out there. They may not be perfect, it may not get them back to New Orleans today, but there are options.

[allyray231]

Well, then that's what life has dished out for them, and they need to learn to start dealing with it.

Wow way to be supportive of your fellow americans

I am sure there are people who abuse the system--there always are. There were people who did it after 9/11. Those people should not get the help.

But what about all the others-what are these people suppose to do? If it was a terriost attack instead of natural would it be different.

And we are not talking about a lot of rich people here. A lot of these people only have their homes -no savings accounts, nothing.

So what should they do?

[isign]

Batgirl - that's really not all that bad. Yes it's taking forever to get housing, but there are alot of people to take care of. I really wish the media would show the positive things, but they aren't. There are amazing things going on here with rebuilding & homes, just as AIMEE said there is in NOLA. Yes there are alot of people in FEMA trailers, not permenant housing, but alot of that is due to the cities trying to decide how they will rebuild. A big hold up here is the new requirements for home elevation in 'flood' zones,and also like Aimee said - insurance problems.
Many people wonder - what is FEMA doing for people - FEMA is providing jobs starting at 12/hour and going up. Most office jobs start b/t $7/8, but not FEMA - these jobs are 12 hour days, resulting in MAJOR overtime pay. FEMA is checking on people and making sure they are ok. I had a missed call from them yesterday checking on us to make sure we didn't need anything else. They are trying to help those who are still fighting with their insurance companies.


FEMA maintains that as many as 80 percent of those being forced to check out this week have made other living arrangements, ranging from trailers to receiving federal rent assistance to living with relatives.

While many of the evacuees leaving the Crowne Plaza said they had found other housing, several said they were now homeless.

Travis, 24, and his five childhood friends all in their 20s had been living on the floor of another evacuee's hotel room, never having registered.

"All I got is a couple pairs of pants and some shirts. The pressure is on," said Jonathan Gautier, 26, one of the six, who was also carrying a single plastic bag filled with clothes.

Wheeling out her boxes of belongings, 20-year-old Katie Kinkella and sister, Jennifer, were heading back to their ruined house in heavily flooded St. Bernard Parish. The sisters had stayed first at the Marriott, and later at the Crowne Plaza as they waited for FEMA to deliver a trailer. Then they waited for FEMA to hook up the electricity at the trailer.

"They just connected it yesterday," Kinkella said as she loaded bags, boxes and suitcases into the back of a pickup on the curb outside the hotel.

In Houston, where 4,000 evacuees were staying in hotels, around 80 percent had received permission to extend their stays until at least Monday. The remaining 20 percent either failed to contact FEMA or made other housing arrangements, said Frank Michel, a spokesman for Mayor Bill White.

"People need to begin to take responsibility for themselves," Michel said
ITA with this quote - the guy who'd been living on the floor hadn't even registered, but he and his buddies were in a hotel and technically shold not have been. There is money out there to get started rebuilding homes or to find another place to live. My parents have had to gut their entire house with barely any money from insurance, but FEMA and some great CC ladies and people from all over have given them time & money. I can't speak for NOLA, but this is the norm here. If people are jobless & are now on the street due to the hotel issue then it is their own fault.

[batgirl]

Aimee thanks for your informative post.

Boy, I don't really know what else to say... Wow, I'm at a loss for words!!! My Dh would never believe it;)

ETA: I just read your post isign... I agree, I wish that the media would show some/more of the positives, but at the same time, I would worry that this would give the impression that it is all rosy now, so no more concern or aid to the people who may still need it... double edged sword, I guess.

[isign]

batgirl - I wish they would show the need, not just for money, but for people to help work. All the money in the world won't fix the shortage of contractors or electricians or plumbers. We are only at 50% debris clean up, but on the flip side - that's 50% gone. We have a bridge that hasn't even been started on, but we do have another bridge completed. I just wish there was a way for people to honestly see the situation, not just the media hype.

Well, then that's what life has dished out for them, and they need to learn to start dealing with it.

I think that is the dead honest truth. It's been 5 months and to sit back and wait for the gov't to deal with this is just plain silly.

This is not just about poor people - there are alot of them here too. It's about living. Yes bad things happen - people die, cars crash, & homes are destroyed but there is nothing we can do but get back up and live.

[allyray231]

I am not saying that they should just sit back and wait for the goverment to make it all better, but I think there is a better way to get people motivated then to say "get over it"

[isign]

No, I'm not saying get over it either, but I am saying stop sitting on your butt and go get a job and take the help there and rebuild your life.

[IrisHope]

Ally I agree with you. It just sounded callous.

[Aimee]

Wow way to be supportive of your fellow americans

I am sure there are people who abuse the system--there always are. There were people who did it after 9/11. Those people should not get the help.

But what about all the others-what are these people suppose to do? If it was a terriost attack instead of natural would it be different.

And we are not talking about a lot of rich people here. A lot of these people only have their homes -no savings accounts, nothing.

So what should they do?

They should work with the system just a tiny bit rather than just expect it to be done for them and complain when it's not.

FEMA, the Red Cross, any other agency cannot help a person if they don't know that they exist. If they don't make their need known, how can they expect to be helped? At some point, the people have to take the initiative to help themselves, even if it's as simple as saying "I need help."

The job market right now in New Orleans is crazy. Fast food places are paying about $10/hour and Burger King has a $6500 signing bonus, paid out over 26 paychecks. Other restaurants are paying even more. Someone living in a hotel in New Orleans was essentially living rent free for the last 5 months. They could have made a decent amount of money by working in the city and had some savings to help them for when the hotel program ended. And, then they still could get FEMA grants, or SBA loans, housing vouchers, etc.

The old saying about leading a horse to water rings true in this situation. If people aren't going to "drink" after being led, what else can you do?

[LyLMyssChaos]

No, I'm not saying get over it either, but I am saying stop sitting on your butt and go get a job and take the help there and rebuild your life.

That's exactly what I was saying. It's time to start doing something. You can't sit around forever and wait for other people to make your life better. You have to start doing something. I'm sorry if it sounded callous, but I just think to sit back and say "whoa is me, I've got nowhere to go" when they have had 5 months of assistance is just for lack of a better word, lazy. You can sit around and complain about what you don't have, or you can do something to change it and appreciate that which you do have. People should have been using this time to make preparations for when the assistance would end, unless they expected it to be everlasting.

[allyray231]

Maybe they are afraid to go back?

I am all for working with the system, but I don't think it is fair for us-to tell these people-who have lost everything to sucked it up and get over it.

I find it hard to believe that places are going to hire people off the street with no address, no place to live.

I hear what you are saying about people who just sit back and don't do for themselves but I am sure it is hard to 1) get all the info and 2) deal with it.

[LyLMyssChaos]

Maybe they are afraid to go back?

I find it hard to believe that places are going to hire people off the street with no address, no place to live.


Perhaps they are afraid, so maybe they need to relocate elsewhere? As for getting hired. These people have had addresses for the last 5 months. What stopped them from getting jobs for that period of time and start saving money like a PP-er said? They could have saved up enough money to either relocate or to be able to be sustained with the help of all the programs that are available. I think what quite a few people misunderstood was these programs were meant to be assistance, not handouts.

[allyray231]

Maybe you are right-but 5 months does not seem like a whole lot of time to get your life back together.

Guess I am just a bleeding heart liberal that wants to help eveyone :)

[batgirl]

Ally I agree with you. It just sounded callous.
It was meant to be callous. But let's consider the source...

isgin When I mentioned agreeing with your post I was not referring to this quote:
If people are jobless & are now on the street due to the hotel issue then it is their own fault.

I really agree with Ally on this one. Granted you are more familiar with the area and the rebuilding than I am, but I know that people always fall through the cracks. These are the poor, uneducated, aged members of our society. They can survive from day to day, but rip the floor out beneath them, and they have no idea what to do. They don't have the luxury of having family members take them in, they probably don't trust the goverment (since it really doesn't give a rat's ass about them unless its november of an election year), what are they to do? They don't have a safety net, they certainly don't have insurance... what? They can aspire to get a signing bonus at BurgerKing? Is $6500 really going to help them build a house?

We all know that the current building that is going on is going to happen on a priority basis... wealthy first, then people who's insurance money comes through, and low cost housing last. That's the way its always been in America, and that's why we have such a poverty problem.

[allyray231]

I guess my BIG issue to is we can help other nations for YEARS, but for our own people there is a "get off you as and do it yourself" idea sometimes.

It just makes me mad.

[jp'swife]

Ally, I see where you are coming from and I would like to see everyone helped.
But, what if some of these people ARE the same people who abused and used the system for all it's worth BEFORE the Hurricane...didn't have a job or any drive to do any better before so much devastation and here they are now, living in a hotel facing an eviction because they didn't do A, B, or C in the last 5 months to get their life 'straightened' out.

I think most of us would have done things properly (or at least attempted to) like going through the proper applications, getting a job, starting to make some income again to get out of this mess. Some people just have no drive and will suck the system and take every handout possible without a second thought on NOT relying on a handout or the system.

[allyray231]

jp I totally agree-and I know there are people out there who abuse--they do that with all goverment programs.

But I just don't think that all the people who are dealing with this-even the hotel issue aside-all fall into the categories of people who abuse the system.

[msnicolea]

This may not be a well received opinion, but I'll share it none the less. I know that these people have been through terrible devistation, but when do they finally start to take care of themselves? I mean, is the government supposed to support them forever because they endured a tragedy? I don't think so. I mean, the government has provided them ample time to make other arrangements, and I think it's time they start taking care of themselves. Take for example, the people in the article who never even bothered to register. Now they are complaining that they have "no where to go." And who's fault is that? They should have registered, gotten the help while it was available, and perhaps they could begin to get back on their feet by now. Instead, they want to cry and act like a victim. The Hurricane happened, it caused great devistation, it was horrible, but it's time for these people to start moving on. They need to start finding jobs and permanent living arrangements. If that means not returning to the area they left? Well, then that's what life has dished out for them, and they need to learn to start dealing with it.


I'm curious, LMC--for how long did you receive government aid?

[curlyjr]

ITA with LMC (gulp;) )

[LyLMyssChaos]

It was meant to be callous. But let's consider the source...


Thank you so much for trying to guess what I'm thinking and being TOTALLY offbase. Contrary to what you seem to believe, I am a VERY compassionate person.


I really agree with Ally on this one. Granted you are more familiar with the area and the rebuilding than I am, but I know that people always fall through the cracks. These are the poor, uneducated, aged members of our society. They can survive from day to day, but rip the floor out beneath them, and they have no idea what to do. They don't have the luxury of having family members take them in, they probably don't trust the goverment (since it really doesn't give a rat's ass about them unless its november of an election year), what are they to do? They don't have a safety net, they certainly don't have insurance... what? They can aspire to get a signing bonus at BurgerKing? Is $6500 really going to help them build a house?


Did you read that article that you posted. One example was of someone that was 24 years old. That is FAR from aged. I think that those people that were interviewed are simply lazy. There is no nice way to put it. There is absolutely no reason not to have registered, and then to complain because you aren't getting any help. People cannot expect the government to go out looking for people to assist. If people want help, they need to ask for it.

[jp'swife]

No, that's why I said some and not all. I don't believe all do.
However, it seems like there was a lot of help or at least access to help for many in this situation.
I'll be interested in how the events play out!

[batgirl]

Ally, I see where you are coming from and I would like to see everyone helped.
But, what if some of these people ARE the same people who abused and used the system for all it's worth BEFORE the Hurricane...didn't have a job or any drive to do any better before so much devastation and here they are now, living in a hotel facing an eviction because they didn't do A, B, or C in the last 5 months to get their life 'straightened' out.

I think most of us would have done things properly (or at least attempted to) like going through the proper applications, getting a job, starting to make some income again to get out of this mess. Some people just have no drive and will suck the system and take every handout possible without a second thought on NOT relying on a handout or the system.

Of course "most of us" would have done it differently. But "most of us" on CC have college educations, cars, insurance, the internet... We can not fairly compare ourselves to the people that need this help. Its not fair to say they are just out for handouts. We really have no idea what its like to live as they do, to be raised as they were...

And to make it sound like they (the impoverished) are the only ones that "abuse and use" the system... Look at whose in charge... DeLay, Frist, Rove, everyone linked to the Abramoff scandal... not to change the topic, but its not always the poor that take advantage...

[LyLMyssChaos]

I'm curious, LMC--for how long did you receive government aid?

My father received government aid for about 10 years I believe. And I don't see what that has to do with anything. I am not expecting these people to have their lives completely fixed in 5 months, but they sure as heck have NO reason to not have some sort of plan in the works to improve things. I can't imagine that in 5 months time that they couldn't have some sort of plan on where they were going to live, or what they were going to do.

[Aimee]

Maybe they are afraid to go back?

Afraid of what? Nobody is telling them that they have to go back to New Orleans.


I am all for working with the system, but I don't think it is fair for us-to tell these people-who have lost everything to sucked it up and get over it.


Then is it fair for people like isign or me or anyone else in the hurricane area to say it? Every day, I see people moving on, rebuilding, and figuring it out. It's very, very hard, but it's not impossible. It's what the vast majority of people are doing, in all their varying stages of loss.

My FIL owned a business in St. Bernard Parish. It was innundated with 10 feet of water that sat for about 2 weeks. He has been back at work, in his office, since late September. He got in there with his business partner, and cleaned up with their bare hands and didn't wait for anything from anyone. Why? Because he's dealing and doing what he's got to do. I think if anyone has a right to tell someone else to move on and figure out a plan, he can. And he's just one small business owner that's done it. There are thousands of others who are struggling to get back on their feet and are succeding every single day.


I find it hard to believe that places are going to hire people off the street with no address, no place to live.


It is happening. There are contractors living in their trucks, in motel parking lots, but people are hiring them, as long as they've got the correct paperwork. The labor force is so thin right now that nearly every single business in the restaurant and retail sector is hiring. Some places even have set up trailer parks of FEMA trailers for their employees.

I live in a suburb that was about 30 miles west of the eye. We're above sea level and didn't have massive flooding. Most of our damage was from trees. Most of our residents returned home, and we've gained about 50,000 new residents since the storm. Even still, there is nobody to work. Restaurants have hour-long waits on a routine basis, since they are so understaffed. Wal-Mart is still closing at 7pm, when it was formerly 24 hours.

Nobody knows exactly what is happening, but it's suspected that a lot of people left their retail/restaurant jobs to work in construction or cleanup, leaving a shortage of retail/restaurant workers. If someone wants to work, there is a job for them here, regardless of if they've got a permanent physical address.


I hear what you are saying about people who just sit back and don't do for themselves but I am sure it is hard to 1) get all the info and 2) deal with it.

Remember the $2000 debit cards? You had to register with FEMA to get those, and FEMA was at the Astrodome signing people up. There are FEMA centers all over Louisiana and Mississippi to get information from a live person, rather than over the phone. It is not difficult to get the basic information.

If you notice in the article from abc.com, it says that workers knocked on doors at least 6 times to try and aprise people of the situation. Some people refused to answer the door. If people aren't going to accept the information, how can you help them?

[msnicolea]

My father received government aid for about 10 years I believe. And I don't see what that has to do with anything. I am not expecting these people to have their lives completely fixed in 5 months, but they sure as heck have NO reason to not have some sort of plan in the works to improve things. I can't imagine that in 5 months time that they couldn't have some sort of plan on where they were going to live, or what they were going to do.

I just find it interesting that you keep talking about handouts and people "sucking off the system," etc. . when you have gone through the same type of things. I mean, 10 years is A LOT longer than 5 months--so why is your Dad being given allowances that poor people from NO are not?

[allyray231]

Aimee I hear what you are saying and it is amazing that you and your family were able to do that-BUT my big issue was more of the idea that all these people are lazy. We can't know every story.

ETA-I think the reason people are not there is fear. I know here in NYC after 9/11 companies did not want to come back here and risk something happeneing. It is sad that people don't want to go back-but it happens

[LyLMyssChaos]

I just find it interesting that you keep talking about handouts and people "sucking off the system," etc. . when you have gone through the same type of things. I mean, 10 years is A LOT longer than 5 months--so why is your Dad being given allowances that poor people from NO are not?

My father was a disabled person that got off of welfare as soon as he was physically able to. Some of the time that we received assistance it was as minimal as medicaid. Other times it was food stamps, and other times it was cash assistance, but my father did what he could. He did not just sit back and wait for checks to come in. He worked, and had his assistance lessened accordingly, and honestly, if he did not have children, he most likely wouldn't have taken any kind of assistance. As soon as he was physically able to work full time, he stopped receiving assistance completely. As I have said before in this thread, I don't think that the people that were affected by the Hurricane need to have all assistance stopped, but they most certainly can start contributing to their own care.

[allyray231]

So honestly-if it had been a terriost attack-would you be saying the same thing to people 5 months later?

[LyLMyssChaos]

So honestly-if it had been a terriost attack-would you be saying the same thing to people 5 months later?

Yes, yes I would. I mean, you can only sit around for so long complaining about what is wrong in your life. I am not saying that they need to just "get over it" but come on, they need to start moving on. The key word there is start. If they just sit where they are, then their life is never going to get any better. And I find it extremely ironic that the people who are agreeing with me for the most part, actually live in the areas affected by the hurricanes, so perhaps my thinking isn't too far offbase?

[allyray231]

Yes but 2 stories does not a whole part of the US make.

And what you said Lyl was not for them to start it was "Realize this is what life has dealt you and move on" If it had been a terriost attack, would you say the same thing?

I think these people are dealing with A LOT of emotional shock as well and other things and it is great that so many have been able to rise about it and move it, but I can't even imagine what it would be like to get have to get your life back together like that.

[msnicolea]

Exactly, Ally. We have no idea what these people have gone through or how they are feeling, and I'm sick and tired of the stereotypes about less fortunate people that are being expressed here.

[Aimee]

Aimee I hear what you are saying and it is amazing that you and your family were able to do that-BUT my big issue was more of the idea that all these people are lazy. We can't know every story.


No, we don't know every story. My family is just one story, and there are so many others that have just carried on as well. Of everyone in my extended family, friends, friends-of-friends, etc., network, everyone is just getting by, taking it one day at a time and trying to rebuild, whatever degree of loss there was. And I'd venture to guess that a lot of the people still in hotels, the ones that filed for extensions are average people who are trying to make it and are not lazy. I personally know of one girl who was a part of the hotel program, living in a B&B uptown, while she worked on her home in Metairie. I'm sure there are many more like her.

The ones that are lazy, IMO, are the ones that didn't do anything for the last 5 months, didn't file for an extension, didn't file for any help in any way, and are now crying that they've been thrown out. There were so many chances to avoid this and they didn't take any of the opportunities. At some point, they've got to be accountable for their choices. I hope the guy quoted in the article does get some help, because I'd hate to see him homeless, but FEMA, Red Cross, etc, has their hands full without trying to track down people and force them to register for help.


ETA-I think the reason people are not there is fear. I know here in NYC after 9/11 companies did not want to come back here and risk something happeneing. It is sad that people don't want to go back-but it happens

The big difference is the economy of NOLA v. NYC. New Orleans thrives on tourism, and has a very poor business economy. There are a very few large companies in the city, such as Entergy and Shell. They have come back, and most of their employees have come back too. But the "fear" of going back isn't really that big of an issue since there aren't that many companies here to begin with. It's a lot of small businesses that are just carrying on because it's their livelihood. Most businesses are being extremely accomodating when it comes down to finding housing for employees.

The less educated sector of the New Orleans workforce was in hotel/motel, restaurant and retail. And most of those businesses are back and ready to reopen to the public, and are doing so on a limited basis, becasue of the shortage of employees.

[BTB]

I agree with you, the hotel thing was a terrible (and expensive) idea. But what my question is... now that people are getting the boot (and they are or will be soon)... is there anywhere for them to go?

It sure sounds like every attempt has been made to find other arrangements for people in terms of rental assistance or other longer-term housing. That's a far cry from just being abandoned, homeless, with nothing. I don't think it's time for people to be completely on their own, but I do think it's time for them to be out of hotels. I'm sure the gov't isn't paying rack rate, but even so, staying in hotels was a "crisis stopgap" that got roofs over people's heads and now it's time to move to more sustainable, longterm solutions.

It was meant to be callous. But let's consider the source...

That was insulting and unnecessary, as well as potentially amounting to a personal attack on a community member which is not permitted. This kind of swiping at someone weakens an otherwise worthwhile discussion.

[allyray231]

I hope the guy quoted in the article does get some help, because I'd hate to see him homeless, but FEMA, Red Cross, etc, has their hands full without trying to track down people and force them to register for help
ITA

I was just using companies as an example. I understand the tourism thing as well-NYC is the same way. It took YEARS for it to come back here and it still isn't like it was downtown (except for the people who go to the WTC site)

In all of this, I am sure it is the SB owner that gets hurt the worst-they usually do.

[isign]

I realize to those outside the area, it looks & sounds like we are being cold hearted and uncaring. I understand what Aimee is saying, and I think she get's the gist of what I'm saying. I am not saying that every person who is homeless/jobless right now are lazy. What I am saying is that in many cases I've seen this is how it is. DH works for a Rent to Own company, & manages the custom tire/wheels store. The amount of business that store did just after the storm was unbelivable. They set records for the company, not just in this small market but records that beat out the entire company. People would come in and say - what can I buy for $2000. People would say, hey I want to rent something for $400 a month, but when we'd call their references they'd say that the person's house/job was destroyed but somehow these people managed to pay for these 'wants' not needs. These are the people that are now crying out for help - do I feel sorry for them? Not one bit.

There are jobs to be had - heck the pay rate for cleaning up debris is higher than construction jobs before the storm. Bottom line - if you want a job, you can find a job. Even the $10 at McDonalds, which is way up from the $6 re-storm pay, it's a start to rebuilding. The deadlines for fileing for FEMA were extended, several times. The red cross was out in the community signing people up. Our state has programs for people to get help. If people do not go out and let others know that they need help then why are we to feel sorry when the oppertunity was given to them.

[PG-rated]

I'll be honest; after Katrina, I have a hard time believing anything a FEMA official says. So it doesn't mean much to me that a spokesperson is quoted saying that they went door-to-door six times before the deadline. However, it does sound from the local posters in this thread that they really have been an effective and available presence in the area, and that assistance was as available as they say it was. So that does make a difference in my feelings on the situation.

[LyLMyssChaos]

Here is an interesting article that I found in regards to the lodging and money that was spent in the wake of Katrina:

WASHINGTON-
In its rush to provide Katrina disaster aid, the Federal Emergency Management Agency wasted millions of dollars and overpaid for hotel rooms, including $438-a-day lodging in New York City, government investigators said Monday.

Two reports released by the Government Accountability Office and the Homeland Security Department's office of inspector general detail a series of accounting flaws, fraud or mismanagement in their initial review of how $85 billion in federal aid is being spent.


You can read the entire article here (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/13/D8FOAFI80.html).

It just really makes me angry that they have found so many people who were fraudulently making claims when there were so many people that legitimately needed(and still need) aid.

[oldsalt]

Count me in as being uncompassionate, if that's what this is. My town was a host site for many Katrina refugees. And the FEMA people here aren't the high ranking folks, they are on the front lines of all this and for the most part are doing their jobs.

Not to mention the behavior of some of the refugees doesn't make me want to exactly jump up and be their advocate. I know a lot of people are hurting from this storm, and some people do fall through the cracks. But trust me, there is more than one side to this whole poor homeless soul story.

[DiscoDiva]

The vast majority of the Katrina evacuees were honest, decent, hardworking people who have wanted nothing but to get back on their feet. The vast majority of them knew that the hotels were a temporary measure until they got new jobs, found new living arrangements (house, apartment, etc.), and restablished themselves.

The evacuees knew that the hotels were a temporary measure and knew that they couldn't stay there forever. They also knew of the deadline. If they lived in areas with large concentrations of evacuees, it was all over the news on a daily basis.

This country has bent over backwards to show compassion for all the people that had their lives devastated by the hurricane - and I doubt many evacuees will doubt that. But, at some point, they have to restart their lives. They have to find jobs, find their own housing, and reestablish themselves. It would be no different if it was war, terrorist attacks, or whatever other harm could hit our country. At some point, we all have to get back on our feet and start a new life. That is the only option. The evacuees knew that, and when the deadline was.