View Full Version : Apple faces suit over iPod-related hearing loss
lawyerlee
02-03-2006, 06:06 AM
Apple faces suit over iPod-related hearing loss (http://news.com.com/Apple+faces+suit+over+iPod-related+hearing+loss/2100-1041_3-6034366.html?tag=html.alert)
CNET News
A Louisiana man has filed a class action suit against Apple Computer, saying the computer maker has failed to take adequate steps to prevent hearing loss among iPod users.
The suit, filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in San Jose, Calif., charges that the iPod music player can produce sounds of up to 115 decibels even though some studies suggest that listening to music at that level for 28 seconds a day can cause damage over time. The suit, filed on behalf of John Kiel Patterson and all other iPod buyers, seeks monetary damages to compensate for the hearing loss suffered by iPod users, as well as a share of Apple's iPod profits.
The suit also seeks to force Apple to offer a software upgrade to limit the iPod's output to 100 decibels as well as provide headphones designed to block out external noise.
"Millions of consumers have had their hearing put at risk by Apple's conduct," the suit states.
Common sense would probably protect your hearing just as well. :rolleyes:
batgirl
02-03-2006, 06:30 AM
Personal accountability? Not in America.
Anything for a buck...
Aimee
02-03-2006, 06:59 AM
Y'know, I've been pretty embarassed to be from Louisiana in the last year, and this just adds fuel to that fire.
The iPod earbuds are too big for my small girly ears. Can I get some money because it makes my ears kind of ache if I wear them too long?
Idiot.
EmilyBronte
02-03-2006, 07:15 AM
Right. It's Apple's fault. This guy did nothing to contribute to his hearing loss, I'm sure.
Idiot.
LyLMyssChaos
02-03-2006, 07:24 AM
Pure stupidity! I say, how bout ya don't listen to the thing for so long at such high levels??? I mean, come on, it's right in your ear, the only one who needs to hear it is you, how loud do you really need to have it anyway??? :rolleyes:
well, actually i was reading in a magazine (i think it was rolling stone.) that it is only really safe to listen to ipods with the earbuds on medium level volume for only one hour a day. there are many, many people here in nyc who listen to them non stop on their whole subway commute which could easily top one hour. i don't think any of thoe people are aware that they could be damaging their ears.
PrincessTommi
02-03-2006, 08:21 AM
Yup. All Apple's fault. Never mind there have been personal music players for years. Headphones. Earbuds. Loud music. Hearing loss is soley contributed to iPod's negligence.
People are stupid.
LyLMyssChaos
02-03-2006, 08:29 AM
well, actually i was reading in a magazine (i think it was rolling stone.) that it is only really safe to listen to ipods with the earbuds on medium level volume for only one hour a day. there are many, many people here in nyc who listen to them non stop on their whole subway commute which could easily top one hour. i don't think any of thoe people are aware that they could be damaging their ears.
Hmmm, that is a good point. My DH listens to his for extended periods of time as well. I wonder if there should be some sort of caution label or something, ya know? At least notify people of it?
ignutzz
02-03-2006, 08:29 AM
There are many, many people here in nyc who listen to them non stop on their whole subway commute which could easily top one hour. i don't think any of thoe people are aware that they could be damaging their ears.
I'd be one of those people that always has their headphones on and I have much better ones than the apple's crappy earbuds which leak more sound than they send into your ear. I'm fully aware that as loud as I sometimes have the volume I'm def. contributing to some eventual (even current) hearing loss. That's my choice.
At the same time, the decibel level on the construction going on in this city, general traffic noise, horns etc. is at least as bad, if not worse at certain times, than my music. I'd bet a lot of people listen to their car stereos too loud, have the tv up to high etc. etc. According to science I've read previously, a lot of what we all encounter on a day to day basis is actually too loud. :)
LittleFredPunkinHead
02-03-2006, 08:31 AM
At the same time, the decibel level on the construction going on in this city, general traffic noise, horns etc. is at least as bad, if not worse at certain times, than my music. I'd bet a lot of people listen to their car stereos too loud, have the tv up to high etc. etc. According to science I've read previously, a lot of what we all encounter on a day to day basis is actually too loud. :)
Yes! Apple's just getting hit with a suit on this because the iPod has been such a goldmine for them, and someone has decided to cash in on their success. Apple's no more responsible for hearing loss than my car stereo manufacturer is.
swcolleen
02-23-2006, 07:28 PM
I had a roommate who was studying audiology in grad school and she said running a hairdryer too long will hurt your ears after continued use-and I think a lot of Vaccums are too load too!
And for the record...who said you have to use apple's earbuds-or listen to high volume? get whatever headphones you want....and this is why we have volume control!
UGh...sorry. These type of suits annoy me to no end :)
Delta
02-23-2006, 09:40 PM
What?
;)
Mrs. M.
02-24-2006, 03:58 AM
Puh-leeze.
Just turn the volume down. :rolleyes:
(Not in response to Delta, but to the suing party)
lawyerlee
02-24-2006, 04:23 AM
I had a roommate who was studying audiology in grad school and she said running a hairdryer too long will hurt your ears after continued use
Geez, I had no idea. I guess there are a lot of things to be careful of. Sometimes it just doesn't seem like people use good judgment at all.
according to that article, earbuds and headphones contribute more to hearing loss than a stereo or even a concert. i suppose it's because it is closer to the ear. also, earbuds contriubute more to hearing loss than headphones. perhaps, that is what has spurned this lawsuit bc as far as i know ipods only come with one hearing device - the earbuds.
KarenS
02-24-2006, 07:39 AM
also, earbuds contriubute more to hearing loss than headphones. For a variety of reasons, too. Incidences of ear infections have gone up something like 400% since earbuds (both for music systems and for cell phones) were introduced.
I'm one of the statistics. I talk on my phone several hours a day and used to to use an earbud-type headset. About 2 years ago I started getting bad ear infections in my left ear and I couldn't figure out why. My doctor finally asked if I used an earbud and when I said yes, she told me that bacteria build up on the part that goes in your ear. She said that also the natural waxes and fluids that normally just migrate out of your ear and dries naturally gets trapped in the ear canal when you're using an earbud. I now have scar tissue and reduced hearing in my left ear. I will have problems with my left ear the rest of my life because the scarring is so bad that my ear doesn't drain properly anymore.
Will I sue over this? No, probably not. But I'd have like to have known so I could make an informed choice. Now I use a headset that has a padded earphone - either one that goes over my head or one that hooks over my ear, depending on where I am.
And so while I'm the first to say that frivolous lawsuits are a bad thing, I do think that companies should make this information available up front - if they provide earbuds, they should also inform us of the risks of using them.
Karen
karen - i hadn't even thought of ear infections. though, i had thought it is kinda gross to stink this little thing inside your ear with all that wax.
lawyerlee
02-24-2006, 08:46 AM
For a variety of reasons, too. Incidences of ear infections have gone up something like 400% since earbuds (both for music systems and for cell phones) were introduced.
I'm one of the statistics. I talk on my phone several hours a day and used to to use an earbud-type headset. About 2 years ago I started getting bad ear infections in my left ear and I couldn't figure out why. My doctor finally asked if I used an earbud and when I said yes, she told me that bacteria build up on the part that goes in your ear. She said that also the natural waxes and fluids that normally just migrate out of your ear and dries naturally gets trapped in the ear canal when you're using an earbud. I now have scar tissue and reduced hearing in my left ear. I will have problems with my left ear the rest of my life because the scarring is so bad that my ear doesn't drain properly anymore.
:eek:
I definitely never considered this. That really sucks, Karen. It does seem to me that now that this information is know, it should be made available so others don't experience what you have. :(
lawyerlee
03-29-2006, 10:21 AM
An update:
Apple Releases Software to Set iPod Volume (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/apple_volume_setting;_ylt=AqiM2fxpl.UCQmMdTD_1L0ys 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)
AP
CUPERTINO, Calif. - Owners of recent iPods will now be able to set how loud their digital music players can go. Apple Computer Inc., facing complaints and a lawsuit claiming the popular player can cause hearing loss, made the setting available as part of a new software update Wednesday. The free download applies to the iPod Nano and the iPod models with video-playback capabilities.
Parents also can use the feature to set a limit on their child's iPod and lock it with a code, the company added.
"As the leading provider of digital music players, Apple continuously brings iPod customers innovative and easy to use solutions," Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president for iPod marketing, said in a statement. "With the increased attention in this area, we want to offer customers an easy to use option to set their own personal volume limit."
Earlier this year, a Louisiana man filed a lawsuit against Apple, claiming that the iPod can cause hearing loss in people who use it.
laura
03-29-2006, 10:31 AM
according to that article, earbuds and headphones contribute more to hearing loss than a stereo or even a concert. i suppose it's because it is closer to the ear. also, earbuds contriubute more to hearing loss than headphones. perhaps, that is what has spurned this lawsuit bc as far as i know ipods only come with one hearing device - the earbuds.
I'm sorry, but I still call BS. There are risks too lots of things, and people choose to take on that risk by using certain devices. Common sense tells you that if people standing next to you can hear music from your headphones, it most likely cannot be good for your long-term hearing, but people do it anyway. This is like the woman who sued McDonald's b/c she was burned by her coffee. It's HOT coffee.
Isn't there some basic level of personal responsibility a consumer she be expected to possess?
Scooter
03-29-2006, 11:41 AM
Isn't there some basic level of personal responsibility a consumer she be expected to possess?
If it has been proven that using earbuds can cause more hearing loss and ear infections than headphones, I think they need to come with some type of warning label. I don't think every customer should be required to research every part of every item they buy to look for potential problems.
Isn't there some basic level of ethical responsibility a company should be expected to possess, if they know their product has the potential to harm people?
As far as the volume of the iPod itself goes, I think it's like every MP3 player and stereo and walkman on the market have always been--able to go way louder than anyone should listen to them. It's not fair to target Apple about the volume.
villanelle75
03-29-2006, 11:50 AM
I'm going to start a class action law suit agains tpencil makers. If you jam them in your ear, you can cause serious damage, or even potentailly hearign loss. They don't even come with a warning about this. Anyone want to join me?
PG-rated
03-29-2006, 01:58 PM
If pencils were designed and marketed as something to be jammed in your ear on a regular basis, then sure, I would join you.
Karen, I never thought of that hazard with earbuds. I'm going to mention it to my DH, because he walks around with his cell phone earbud in quite a bit.
Really, when it comes to cell phones, you can't win. If you hold the phone to your ear, you get cancer. If you use the earbud, you destroy your ears. What are we supposed to do?
lawyerlee
03-29-2006, 02:06 PM
If pencils were designed and marketed as something to be jammed in your ear on a regular basis, then sure, I would join you.
Here, here. Filing a products' liability suit against a manufacturer because you misused the product just doesn't make any sense. It's when you use the product as directed and suffer some kind of loss that you have a case. :)
villanelle75
03-29-2006, 02:37 PM
Were earbuds deisgned to be used specifically to listen to your music in a loud (and dmaging way)? I 'm not looking at this from a legal persepctive, btu from a common sense one (and sadly, oftentimes the two viewpoints don't converge at all). Your earbuds weren't made so that they have to be used ad dmadaging volume levels. They were made to listen to music with. If you use them to, by choice, plya your music loud, to meet that seem slike a personal decision, not an ear bud flaw.
Music is also made (and produced and sold) to be listened to. Does that mean that if you play "Material Girl" at obnoxious volumes on your iPod and you lose hearign you can sue Madona as well?
Scooter
03-29-2006, 07:07 PM
Were earbuds deisgned to be used specifically to listen to your music in a loud (and dmaging way)?
I think you're confusing the 2 separate arguments going on in this thread. One is about the guy's lawsuit--that Apple shouldn't make the iPods be able to go up to a certain volume. The other is about the earbuds, which apparently can cause more hearing loss than other types of headphones and also can cause ear infections (again risking hearing loss). That is, earbuds in general are an issue, and not just those made by Apple.
So as far as your pencil analogy goes, if they found that writing with mechanical pencils posed a serious health risk in comparison to using regular old yellow pencils, I don't care which company is making the mechanical pencils, I want a warning label on the package so I can be informed before I risk my health.
We're talking serious risk based on normal usage as expected by the company. We're not talking about blasting earbuds at high volumes or jamming pencils in your ear.
villanelle75
03-30-2006, 10:07 AM
We're talking serious risk based on normal usage as expected by the company.
I think that is where our opinions differ. I don't consider listening to your music super-loud to be normal usage as expected by the company, and more than I consider ear-jamming to be normal usage of a pencil, as expected by the pencil company.
jnettie
03-30-2006, 11:00 AM
As stupid as this lawsuit is, I think that companies really just have to assume that customers are just this stupid. Pick up any random product and read the warnings. DH's shaving cream says "Warning: do not use near open flame." Huh? I can see it now, DH shaving by candle light! But you know, some idiot must have got their shaving cream near a candle or stove or some stupid crap and sued.
camberne
03-30-2006, 11:10 AM
As stupid as this lawsuit is, I think that companies really just have to assume that customers are just this stupid. Pick up any random product and read the warnings. DH's shaving cream says "Warning: do not use near open flame." Huh? I can see it now, DH shaving by candle light! But you know, some idiot must have got their shaving cream near a candle or stove or some stupid crap and sued.I was just reading the thread and was going to post this very thing. I'm extremely surprised that the iPod didn't already have a warning for the earbuds. Generally any device that will cause a product to deposit something into your body (this being sound into your ear) contains a warning. I just couldn't imagine, in this day and age, that Apple wouldn't have covered themselves with a "prolonged use or use at higher volume levels can contribute to hearing loss". Even using hearing protection in an environment that is loud doesn't prevent hearing loss (my husband's company tested their employees annually for hearing loss, and they were all required to wear hearing protection).
Bad call on Apple's part for not anticipating this from the start.
PG-rated
03-30-2006, 11:55 AM
I think that is where our opinions differ. I don't consider listening to your music super-loud to be normal usage as expected by the company, and more than I consider ear-jamming to be normal usage of a pencil, as expected by the pencil company.
You're still missing the point. The "normal usage" part refers to the fact that earbuds used at any volume can cause ear damage that other types of headphones don't cause, and that most consumers aren't aware of this.
The actual lawsuit was over the iPod device itself, not the earbuds (saying that the iPod shouldn't be able to play music at a volume that's known to cause hearing loss). There are two separate discussions going on in this thread.
villanelle75
03-30-2006, 12:17 PM
I don't think I am missing the point. I did confuse the issue a bit, admitedly, by bringing up the earbuds, but now (and in the post you quoted) I am refering to the iPod. I don't agree that the Apple should have conisdered turning up the volume to freakishly loud levels was "normal usage', which I why I don't feel they are responsible for damaged hearing that resulted from that kind of usage.
The ear bud issue is separate and from what I've read in this thread, it seems that the normal, intenteded use of an ear bud (i.e. putting it in your ear) can lead to infection, and perhaps that is something there should be a warnign about, or a note on hwo to sterilize them, or something.
Scooter
03-30-2006, 12:19 PM
I think that is where our opinions differ. I don't consider listening to your music super-loud to be normal usage as expected by the company, and more than I consider ear-jamming to be normal usage of a pencil, as expected by the pencil company.
Did you read the sentance after the one you quoted from me? Here it is: We're not talking about blasting earbuds at high volumes or jamming pencils in your ear.(boldface added)
I think you're still not getting the point. You're the one saying ear jamming with a pencil is analogous, I said that WRITING with a pencil is analogous.
I also said the earbuds issue is a different argument from the volume issue. It's not about listening to earbuds loudly.
I'm talking about two separate arguments here.
1. The lawsuit guy's claim that iPods shouldn't go to such a loud volume.
(here's where we probably agree, this is a stupid frivolous lawsuit and Apple shouldn't be targeted any more than any other stereo/MP3/walkman manufacturer)
2. There appears to be evidence that earbuds can cause more hearing damage than headphones do, just by normal usage.
(here's where I'm talking about having a warning label for the product, regardless of the company or if the earbud is for listening to music or for use with a cell phone)
Scooter
03-30-2006, 12:21 PM
crossposted :)
I threw those earbuds out within minutes of getting my ipod. Seriously, anyone thinking they are anything but useless really needs their head examined.
that would be half of nyc then!!
udsweetpea
03-30-2006, 05:06 PM
I bought headphones at the same time as buying my iPod because I can't stand the earbuds. I guess I always thought the earbuds would cause some type of hearing loss because its a foreign object sitting in your ear for a long period of time. And I've never been able to find earbuds that weren't immediately painful.
that would be half of nyc then!!
Yeah - I noticed that - but it seemed to be more of a status thing than anything. The buds show that your player is an ipod. It's certainly not the best way to listen to the music playing and looking at the design, well duh they would impact your hearing!
i was reading a magazine (don't remember which one) while waiting to get my car fixed and they had a snippet about the hullabaloo about the excessive volume on ipods. it actually said that the ipods sold in europe are only allowed with a lower volume limit. now ipod is offering a free download that will automatically lower the volume limit. i thought i would a pass it on to all of you.
www.apple.com/ipod/download
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