Booster Seats...

[emschwar]

When is it time for a new car seat?
(This is a general list - rules for your seat may be different. Always read your owner's manual!)
Your child is too big to rear-face (RF) in their convertible seat when a) they reach the RF weight limit, or b) the top of their head reaches the top of the seat.
Your child is too big for the convertible seat (forward facing) when a) they reach the weight limit or b) the tops of his/her ears reach the top of the seat or c) his/her shoulders are at the level of the highest strap slots



Car seat inspections
Car Seat Inspection Stations (http://www.seatcheck.org/)
Get your seat inspected!!!! A majority of car seats are incorrectly installed! An incorrectly installed seat is not safe! Even if you think you did it right, GET IT INSPECTED!!!



Booster Seat Information

Boosters, Belts and Big Kids (http://www.tetonwyo.org/phn/nav/200511.shtm)
Boosters are for Big Kids (http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm)
5 Step Test (http://www.paaap.org/pdf/teleconf/020503/kim.pdf)
Booster Seats (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/childps/booster_seat/brochure/outside.html)



Car Seat Compatibilty Database (http://www.carseatdata.org/selectseat.asp)


Car Seat Info for Canada (http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/canadianchildrestraintsa fety/)


Options for a 5 Point Harness past 40 lbs
Britax Marathon (http://www.britaxusa.com/products.cfm?action=ShowProduct&pro_id=7C71C785-4FBA-42 2D-83DC419B3D5B8213)
Britax Regent (http://www.britaxusa.net/products/detail_regent.aspx)
Britax Decathlon (http://www.britaxusa.net/products/detail_decathlon.aspx)
Britax Boulevard (http://www.britaxusa.net/products/detail_boulevard.aspx)

Cosco Apex 65 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009N1KB6/qid=1144120834/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-4850966-7064860?v=glance&s=baby)

SafeGuard Child Seat (http://www.safeguardseat.com/child/index.htm)

Sunshine Kids Radian (http://www.skjp.com/Pages/radian.html)

Fisher Price Safe Voyage (to 55 lbs) (http://www.babyage.com/products/ef20b2a_fisher-price_fisher-price_safe_voyage_ex_convertible_car_seat.htm) (made by Britax for FP)

Recaro Como (http://www.recaro.com/index.php?id=3312&region=3&L=2)
Recaro Signo (http://www.recaro.com/index.php?id=3312&region=3&L=2)

Evenflo Triumph Advance (http://www.evenflo.com/Homepage/ProductList/tabid/203/navid/1/Default.aspx?categoryid=0967b93d-ca99-479b-99cd-cb460e254ea8)
Evenflo Titan Elite (http://www.evenflo.com/Homepage/ProductList/tabid/203/navid/1/Default.aspx?productid=c8138cb0-17bb-4fee-b9fb-066ef63bdf9e)

Children in Harnessed Seats Past 40 lbs Photo Album (http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/FFalbum.aspx)


Highest Slot heights for various car seats:
marathon - 17"
Roundabout - 15.5"
Apex 65 - 17.5"
Safeguard Seat - 19.5"
Graco Nautilus - 19.5"
Triumph Advance - 17"
Radian (65 or 80) - 18" (manufacturer allows continued use with the shoulders up to 1" over the top slots)
Regent - 20.5"



If you are about to purchase a car seat and would like to assist a good cause at the same time, please consider purchasing from http://www.hipmonkey.com. This website is the sister site to the Kyle David Miller Foundation (http://www.kyledavidmiller.org) who donate car seats to families in need. Besides car seats by Britax, Sunshine Kids, Recaro and SafeSeat, the site also has other child care items - e.g. slings, diaper bags, nursing covers etc. ALL profits from the sale of ALL items go directly to the foundation

[florytee]

Has anybody purchased a booster seat yet? If so, what do you have and how do you like it?

I'm undecided between the Graco TurboBooster and the Britax Parkway.

[Jenyfer9]

Ok, since ds#1 is 38.5 inches and will be 3 this month, I've decided that he probably should be getting a booster seat soon. Any recommendations?

[magdesilver]

The general recommendations I've seen for boosters are 40 lbs. AND 4 years old. If you need to move him out of his current seat, I'd go with a 5 pt. harness seat that can convert to a booster later on.

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=13&topic_id=49219&mesg_id=49219&page=

[LeighW]

I bought a Graco turbobooster for my almost 40-pound 3.5 year old a few weeks ago.

I should qualify that we aren't using it full-time yet. I bought it for occasional car pool trips and trips in Nana's car. We got tired of latching and unlatching the Britax Marathon.

I looked at the Britax Parkway and decided against spending the extra money for it. I didn't think it was worth it. (I'm sure it's a great product. That's my totally subjective opinion.)

The Graco is working out fine. :)

[JennZ]

We have two Britax Parkways that we just love!

We ultimately decided the side-impact protection was important enough to warrant the extra $$.

But we also seriously considered the Graco and thought that was a good one, too.

[linda_loo]

We have two Britax Parkways that we just love!

We ultimately decided the side-impact protection was important enough to warrant the extra $$.

same here.

[question]

I have a Britax Parkway for occassional use but still have my son is a 5 point harness in my car, and will for a long time. He's still too wiggly for a booster on a full time basis.

[karlatta]

I'm looking for a booster seat for my 8yo DD. Even though our state says that she's old enough to not need a booster, she's a tiny girl, and I'd like to get her one.

Does anyone have a small booster that they love? DD is 48 pounds and 50 inches tall. She's very petite - still wears a size 5.

Thanks!

[magdesilver]

The Britax Parkway is a very nice seat, and has side-impact headwings as well.

[bombedier]

Before you purchase a booster seat, please view this video. It is upsetting, but the information regarding the dangers of relying on car seat belts to hold in your child are real and should be considered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ

[quest]

What about combination seats? So you can use the harness and then convert to the seat belt when it makes sense? Does anyone have any recommendations on one of those?

My DD is outgrowing her convertible seat in the sense that she's not comfortable. Which just makes riding in the car annoying for her. She's definitely not ready for a true booster seat, but I'd like to find another car seat that is more comfy, has the harness feature, but will be good for the rest of her car seat/booster needs.

Right now, she's in the Evenflo Triumph, and the straps are becoming difficult to buckle and she's just, well, not comfortable.

So I'm open to any recommendations. I've been reading as much as I can but it seems like the reviews are all over the place and we even tried some at BRU, but nothing popped out to me as something I definitely should get.

TIA!

[bombedier]

With the combination seats - there is a weight limit where you need to switch from the harness to the seat belt. That weight limit may not make sense when combined with the maturity of your child. You need to take into consideration that factor. Booster seats using car seat belts require the child to sit properly in them and not to mess with them in any way (unlatching, squirming around, only using lap belt portion etc.)

[karlatta]

Thanks for video and information, Bombedier. My DD sits in a backless booster. She is 9 years old. She sits straight, doesn't lean, doesn't pull her seatbelt off, etc. If she were younger and not as responsible when traveling in her booster, I'd reconsider. But I feel 100% confident in her ability to be safe in a backless booster.

[quest]

With the combination seats - there is a weight limit where you need to switch from the harness to the seat belt. That weight limit may not make sense when combined with the maturity of your child. You need to take into consideration that factor. Booster seats using car seat belts require the child to sit properly in them and not to mess with them in any way (unlatching, squirming around, only using lap belt portion etc.)

Exactly. Which is why I want one with the harness, since I think she'll be using that for quite some time. But I figure if I'm going to get a new car seat, I might as well a combination/booster rather than a larger regular car seat, because that way at least I know when she is ready for a traditional booster, I'll have it, and won't have to buy another.

I actually didn't even realize they had combination seats until I started looking, so I was happy to see I had that option.

[bombedier]

Out of interest, have you looked at the Britax Regent? You can use it until 80 lbs - it is a car seat with 5 pt harness.

[quest]

Hmmm, no, I haven't looked at the Britax Regent. I've been doing searches/reading reviews solely on Combination seats, and I don't think that's come up in my searches. I tried two combination seats at the store where the harness was good up to 65 lbs, but I can't remember which ones those were!

I'll probably just keep using what we have until I find something that will work for us (safe, comfy, within our price range), and rely on recommendations like these to help with the decision.

...off to search for the britax regent...

[mamax2]

I tried two combination seats at the store where the harness was good up to 65 lbs, but I can't remember which ones those were!

Safety 1st makes one of these and it's what we have in DH's car currently, but soon to move to my Mom's car. We will use it in harness mode until DD reaches the 65lb limit and then in belt positioner mode. For our specific vehicles, it's also LATCH compatible to either 40 or 48lbs (depending on if it's my car or Mom's car). They're available all over, ours is from Wal-mart and was way cheaper than Britax (which I am a huge fan of and have in my own car, but my Mom didn't want to spend that much for occasional use).

[Chelsea524]

My DS is 3 1/2 and close to 40 lbs, his sholders are now higher than the highest straps on his car seat which makes me think we probably need to make the move. We are also expecting twins in a few months so he will be moving to the third row so a booster would be much easier to get him in and out of than a car seat. With all of this I would be leaning towards a booster seat but I just don't know that I'm comfortable with that, I feel like, with him in the very back how will I be able to control him unbuckling himself and sitting in the booster seat properly? When did you move your DC into a booster and did your child sit properly in it or did you have problems with them unbuckling or anything like that?

[jewel]

DS1 moved into a booster one month shy of his 3rd birthday. At that time, the manufacturer reccomendation was 3yrs/30lbs/30". He met the height and weight requirements and there were not a plethora of options available to us like there are now. Connor has always been one to follow the rules, so we had no issues with him unbuckling.

DS2 outgrew his roundabout much earlier than DS1 (and they've changed the booster seat age/weight/height), so I knew that we had to buy another carseat. The regent was just not feasible for us when I read the fine print about how the seatbelts have to work after a certain weight etc, so we ended up going with a Decathalon. DS2 will stay in that in my car until he grow out of it, but will probably begin riding in a booster after his birthday when he randomly rides in someone else's car

[bombedier]

My DS is 3 1/2 and close to 40 lbs, his sholders are now higher than the highest straps on his car seat which makes me think we probably need to make the move. We are also expecting twins in a few months so he will be moving to the third row so a booster would be much easier to get him in and out of than a car seat. With all of this I would be leaning towards a booster seat but I just don't know that I'm comfortable with that, I feel like, with him in the very back how will I be able to control him unbuckling himself and sitting in the booster seat properly? When did you move your DC into a booster and did your child sit properly in it or did you have problems with them unbuckling or anything like that?


No - you should not move your 3.5 year old to a booster seat. The MINIMUM recommendations of best practice are 4 years and 40lbs. However, there are very seldom 4 year olds who are mature enough to sit in a booster seat - that is upright at all time, no reaching forward for toys, no slumping forward when asleep, no interfering with the belt in any fashion. It really is not recommended to put a child younger than 7 or 8 years into a booster seat. Not only for maturity issues, but also for skeletal issues - they body is just not built yet to withstand crash forces spread over only 3 points provided by a car seatbelt. For more information on this, please read this page on our website - http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages/4211/Car_Seat_Safety:_5-point_Harness_is_Safest.htm

[mommycal]

we have the regent for 2 out of our 3 kids. LOVELOVELOVE it. Granted it's huge and it's not allowed on planes due to it's size but we dont travel so it's a no brainer for us. I want to keep them in a 5pt as long as possible. it goes up to 80lbs for the child but I imagine the kids will outgrow the seat height wise before they reach the weight limit.

[Chelsea524]

Thanks everyone. I was thinking the same thing, keep him in the 5 point as long as I can. I have two nephews the same age as ds and they are both already in a booster and I just don't feel right about that, though both of their mothers think I am being overly protective and that he would be just fine. I don't know that I can drop $269 for the regent but I am going to look at the other ones that allow you to go to 65 lbs. Thanks

[mommycal]

Thanks everyone. I was thinking the same thing, keep him in the 5 point as long as I can. I have two nephews the same age as ds and they are both already in a booster and I just don't feel right about that, though both of their mothers think I am being overly protective and that he would be just fine. I don't know that I can drop $269 for the regent but I am going to look at the other ones that allow you to go to 65 lbs. Thanks


BRU/TRU has the cosco apex which goes up to 65 lbs and is a 5 pt. just have to make sure you have a high enough backing in your car/van/suv for it to work correctly. thats' the seat we have as a spare.

[Littlelamb11]

My Kindergartener is still in a 5pt harness and will be for a long time. She's in a Radian 80 (which we LOVE) and also still fits height and weight wise in the Marathon that has been moved to DH's car. She probably won't grow out of the Radian until she's around 8 or 9 and that will be because of height (at 5, she'a only 32 lbs) at which point it will be safe enough for her to be in a booster seat. Then we'll get her a booster to last her until she hits our state requirement of 80lbs to be out of it.

[mamax2]

I have two nephews the same age as ds and they are both already in a booster and I just don't feel right about that, though both of their mothers think I am being overly protective and that he would be just fine.

You're not being overprotective, you're using common-sense! I too have friends who take the whole "if they sell it, it must be safe/legal" approach and it just confounds me.

We recently moved my almost 4.5 y.o. from the Roundabout to the Safety 1st Apex 65. It is very reasonably priced and will be able to be used as a belt-positioning booster when she outgrows the 5-pt harness (most likely for height, before weight). I drive a minivan and she's in a captain's chair w/a fully adjustable headrest so it works just fine.

[emschwar]

There was a post in the car seat/booster thread in 12m-3y about a new seat walmart sells that harnesses to 65 lbs. Let me dig it up.

[emschwar]

Found it! Originally posted by bombedier.
Just new to the market is the Graco Nautilus. It is only at Wal-mart at the moment - not even on Graco's website. It harnesses to 65lbs and then becomes a booster to 100lbs. It has top harness slot height of 18 inches (so will last longer in the harness) and does not require a moveable headrest behind it. It only have EPS/EPP foam in the headrest, not body portion. It is $149 at Wal-mart at the moment.

[dana b]

slightly ot - wondering if bombedier or anyone else knows about the safety of putting kids in the third row? is it different for suvs v. minivans? we recently looked at an suv w/ a third row and although there were latch connectors and side airbags back there, the salesman said he didn't recommend having a car seat back there full time.

[emschwar]

Maybe bombedier can weigh in on this, but I don't see how it would be a safety issue. A pain in the ass to get the kid in the seat, sure, but I don't see why it wouldn't be safe. People do it all the time. (Of course, people put their kids in boosters too early all the time too, so I guess that's not the best reasoning :))

[AmyE]

We won't put kids in the third row of our 2006 Ford Explorer because the airbags and crash structure (not the right name, I know) won't cover that area. Probably different for different cars, of course.

[bombedier]

slightly ot - wondering if bombedier or anyone else knows about the safety of putting kids in the third row? is it different for suvs v. minivans? we recently looked at an suv w/ a third row and although there were latch connectors and side airbags back there, the salesman said he didn't recommend having a car seat back there full time.

Is it unsafe? No. Is it safer to be in the middle row? Yes if there is limited cargo room behind your third row to act as a crumple zone in the event of a crash. However, needs must in MANY circumstances.

[bombedier]

Cross-posting from the other car-seat threads:

Since this seems to be quite a hot topic today, I thought it would be helpful to put together some info in a post on this.

Center LATCH installation in vehicles where this is not allowed is a very common misuse. How do you know if center LATCH is allowed in your vehicle?

Your vehicle owners manual expressly indicated that center LATCH lower anchors are installed in your vehicle
Your vehicle owners manual states that borrowing the inner-most anchor from the outboard position is allowed
If you are borrowing the anchors from the outboard positions, you MUST read your child restraint owners manual to find out (1) if this model allows this practice and (2) what the measurements are for the limits on distance between the edge of the child restraint and the inner-most lower anchor

In general, the customer service line of your vehicle manufacturer will not be able to advise you on this. If you are in doubt, request your local Child Passenger Safety Technician to look up your vehicle make and model in their "LATCH Manual" - please ensure they are using the latest edition of the manual.

[catmom]

re: 3rd row safety. Well, I hope it's safe. If you have more than 2 kids, someone has to ride back there. I keep dithering about whether to put the babies in the second row or the third row (and leave DD in the second row). I actually think we might be safer with them all the way in the back because the crying in the carseats will be less likely to make me freak out and have an accident (dd screamed bloody murder the entire time she was in her carseat until we switched her to the convertable).

[bombedier]

bump

[Geranium]

We recently got my 3 1/2 yr DD a hybrid booster. It's called the "Safe Guard Go" and we were impressed with the idea that it folds for easy travel and that its has a five point harness. Now that I have it in my car (Nissan Murano), I'm worried that it is too low in the seat. Does the level of a car seat have an impact on safety? My DD is tiny, 37" and only 26lbs. Also, she rarely falls asleep in the car anymore but I noticed her head falling forward during a recent ride, is this something to be concerned about?

Here's the seat:
Safeguard Go (http://www.safeguardseat.com/go/index.htm)

bombedier, I would love your input or any suggestions you might have, TIA:)

[OctoberPrincess]

bombedier I tried to click on the link in your sig to look for a Safety Tech and it wasn't working. I need to find a tech in my area, last time I needed one it was like mission impossible, my zip is 10312 if that helps. I won't need to install the infant seat til the end of April but I had such a hard time finding someone the last time (had to go to another state!) that I figured I would start looking early.

Thanks!

[bombedier]

We recently got my 3 1/2 yr DD a hybrid booster. It's called the "Safe Guard Go" and we were impressed with the idea that it folds for easy travel and that its has a five point harness. Now that I have it in my car (Nissan Murano), I'm worried that it is too low in the seat. Does the level of a car seat have an impact on safety? My DD is tiny, 37" and only 26lbs. Also, she rarely falls asleep in the car anymore but I noticed her head falling forward during a recent ride, is this something to be concerned about?

Here's the seat:
Safeguard Go (http://www.safeguardseat.com/go/index.htm)

bombedier, I would love your input or any suggestions you might have, TIA:)


The Safeguard Go is fine as a secondary seat, but I would not recommend it as a child's primary seat - it only harnesses to 60lbs, it is extremely flimsy and does not provide the side impact protection that a "classic" child restraint seat does.

At 26lbs, your daughter would be safest still rear-facing in a convertible seat. Rear-facing is 40% safer than forward facing. I would recommend putting your daughter back into a convertible 5-point in the rear-facing position. If that is not something you will consider, then I would get her into a conventional child restaint (which hard shell), such as a Britax Marathon, a Sunshine Kids Radian65, Recarp Singo/Como or Britax Regent.

[Geranium]

Thank you so much! I don't think DD would tolerate rear-facing because she's so tall and all legs right now. I'm going to get the Radian65 and save the safeguard go for travel.

[bombedier]

Before you make your decision that she is too tall to rear-face, check out these pictures on this website:

http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/RFalbum.aspx (click on the thumbnails to see full picture)
and read our page here:
http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages/4209/Car_Seat_Safety:_Rear-facing_is_safest.htm

[bombedier]

bombedier I tried to click on the link in your sig to look for a Safety Tech and it wasn't working. I need to find a tech in my area, last time I needed one it was like mission impossible, my zip is 10312 if that helps. I won't need to install the infant seat til the end of April but I had such a hard time finding someone the last time (had to go to another state!) that I figured I would start looking early.

Thanks!

Owen Levine Staten Island Safety City
715 Ocean Terrace Petrides School Complex
Staten Island, NY 10301
718-390-5153
olevine@dot.nyc.gov
English Certified Technician

[Geranium]

bombedier, Thank you so much for the wake-up call. When we install the new car seat, we're going to install rear facing.

[bombedier]

bombedier, Thank you so much for the wake-up call. When we install the new car seat, we're going to install rear facing.

This is WONDERFUL to hear!!!!!!!

[twainny]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe that putting a 4.5 year old rear facing is a good idea (like the picture of "N" on the link) He is basically sitting in a V shape, with his legs being as long as, if not longer than his head. I can't believe that it is comfortable, nor all too safe. And the kids sitting cross-legged in a rear facing seat don't look all to safe either.

To each their own though.....

[jennylou]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe that putting a 4.5 year old rear facing is a good idea (like the picture of "N" on the link) He is basically sitting in a V shape, with his legs being as long as, if not longer than his head. I can't believe that it is comfortable, nor all too safe. And the kids sitting cross-legged in a rear facing seat don't look all to safe either.

To each their own though.....

Why is it not safe? Are you worried about their legs in an accident? If the accident is bad enough to cause damage to their legs can you imagine what it would do to their necks if they were FF? RFing is 4 to 5 times safer than FF.

[bombedier]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe that putting a 4.5 year old rear facing is a good idea (like the picture of "N" on the link) He is basically sitting in a V shape, with his legs being as long as, if not longer than his head. I can't believe that it is comfortable, nor all too safe. And the kids sitting cross-legged in a rear facing seat don't look all to safe either.

To each their own though.....

These children do not travel with their legs up like that - they generally travel with them crossed. Please read the information in the other link I supplied before you make your judgement. It will clearly tell you why children sitting this way is safer than sitting forward.

[emschwar]

Bombedier - can you tell me if this is a decent booster?
http://www.albeebaby.com/fiprsavoboca.html

I've been toying with the idea of getting a spare booster for carpooling, and the price on this is fantastic. Noah still rides in a harness in my car and DH's, but there are times when he gets a ride to or from school with a friend, and it's such a PITA to uninstall/reinstall the car seat. I'm not 100% thrilled with the idea of putting him in a booster (he's 4.5, almost 40 lbs, and really tall - 42" at his 4 year check up), but he's really well behaved in the car. Plus, there's no affordable back-up harness options for someone his size. Thoughts?

Thanks!

[bombedier]

Bombedier - can you tell me if this is a decent booster?
http://www.albeebaby.com/fiprsavoboca.html

I've been toying with the idea of getting a spare booster for carpooling, and the price on this is fantastic. Noah still rides in a harness in my car and DH's, but there are times when he gets a ride to or from school with a friend, and it's such a PITA to uninstall/reinstall the car seat. I'm not 100% thrilled with the idea of putting him in a booster (he's 4.5, almost 40 lbs, and really tall - 42" at his 4 year check up), but he's really well behaved in the car. Plus, there's no affordable back-up harness options for someone his size. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Check DOM on this - I don't think it is made anymore (hence sale price) so you would not be getting long use from it.

I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't be comfortable personally at his age and weight yet - yes, he meets the minimum criteria.....but.....ya know? You are adding into the mix someone else's driving skills on top of reduced protection.

How about the Safeguard Go? (assuming top tether available in the other vehicles)? It is easy to install and a great secondary seat with harness to 60lbs, booster to 100lbs. I know it is expensive (contact me for a discount code) http://www.hipmonkey.com/car-seats/safeguard/2008-safeguard-go/prod_18.html, but I think it would fit your needs for a long time to come. Either that or a Nautilus.

If you are going to go Booster route, I would recommend the B510 Compass for longevity and deep side wings.

There is nothing wrong with this booster at all - just be careful about DOM if you want to be using it for a few years.

[emschwar]

At $30, I don't care too much if it's got an older DOM.

I'd love to get a 5 point harness for him to use, but we just can't spend that much $.

I'm not sure what to do really. But there's a pretty good chance he's going to be riding in someone else's car a lot. (I have a really good feeling that once Daniel goes down to 1 nap a day, it's going to be a long one, and I'll need to work something out with one of the other moms to get Noah home from school.) I can either let them keep the marathon and use the true fit in my car, but that leaves us without a seat in DH's car. I've got some thinking to do, I think.

[bombedier]

If he's going to riding in someone else's car a lot, then I would say make the investment in a Nautilus maybe???? if that is affordable.

[LyLMyssChaos]

I haven't read through this thread, but do any of you that are still using the harness seats have Kindergartners doing so? If so, are they able to buckle/unbuckle themselves?

Our daughter is due for a new car seat, but she needs to be able to "quickly enter and exit the vehicle without assistance" for when she is dropped off and picked up from school. She is 5, so we are thinking about getting her a booster, especially because she is not happy about the "baby car seat."

[jennylou]

I wouldn't get a five year old a booster. I know a five year old in a booster and he's totally not ready for one. I don't think most have the maturity to seat properly for the whole trip. I would continue with the extended harnessing. If she can't undo the seat herself and you need to help her the school should be understanding of that - if they aren't, perhaps you could print them out some current literature on extended harnessing?

[bombedier]

I haven't read through this thread, but do any of you that are still using the harness seats have Kindergartners doing so? If so, are they able to buckle/unbuckle themselves?

Our daughter is due for a new car seat, but she needs to be able to "quickly enter and exit the vehicle without assistance" for when she is dropped off and picked up from school. She is 5, so we are thinking about getting her a booster, especially because she is not happy about the "baby car seat."

There are plenty of 5 year olds that can master the harness to get out. Just spend some time with her and practice. A booster would not be advisable for a 5 year old if it can be avoided due to the maturity required to sit correctly in a booster seat.

[Orange]

LMC - we have the same deal for Sarah's drop off. She's in a 5 point harness. She can unbuckle the top part and then DH just reaches back and helps her push the button to get the bottom part off and she's out. He did move her seat so that it is on the passenger side - easier for the dropoff and also so he can reach her.

[1_mommy]

our dd is still in a harness, and no plans soon to move to the booster. She sits on the passenger side. all i have to do is reach back to release the bottom button, and she can undo the top

[almostthere]

I taught my DD to undue her marathon over the summer as well to solve this issue, when I pick her up she gets in and the I drive into a spot and get out to strap her in. I did move her to the passenger side and do often help her with the bottom part but it works well.

[Grenouille]

We have the Graco Nautilus, which can be a 5pt harness, high back booster, or backless booster. The shoulder strap height is higher than the marathon, so DD can remain harnessed a lot longer. She is just now finally able to buckle and (sometimes) unbuckle herself. As others have said, she can do the top and I can reach back and help with the bottom. I like the fact that this is likely the last car seat I will have to buy for her.

I, too, wouldn't put her in a booster yet. It kinda freaks me out when I see or hear about 3 and 4 year olds in booster seats.

[mamax2]

LMC - we have the same deal for Sarah's drop off. She's in a 5 point harness. She can unbuckle the top part and then DH just reaches back and helps her push the button to get the bottom part off and she's out. He did move her seat so that it is on the passenger side - easier for the dropoff and also so he can reach her.

Ditto all of the above. C has been able to buckle/unbuckle since last year when she started pre-k (also w/the drop off lane). I think I "scared" her into learning when I locked my keys in the car and she couldn't get out of the seat to open the door for me! :o She caught on REAL quick after that incident! :D

[LyLMyssChaos]

Thanks for letting me know. I was REALLY worried about that. The carpool lane goes SO fast. So far, I've been parking and walking her in, but that is A LOT of work with all 3 kids. :) I also worry because Madeline is SO tiny. I swear, she is gonna still be harnessed when she is off at college. ;p

[emschwar]

Thanks for letting me know. I was REALLY worried about that. The carpool lane goes SO fast. So far, I've been parking and walking her in, but that is A LOT of work with all 3 kids. :) I also worry because Madeline is SO tiny. I swear, she is gonna still be harnessed when she is off at college. ;p

I don't know if this would be practical, I suppose it would depend on the layout of the parking lot, but maybe you could park, unbuckle her, go to the carpool lane and drop her off, and then the reverse for pick up. Obviously, driving without her buckled isn't wonderful, but if it's just a few feet, it might be a solution, provided she can't undo the buckle herself (which would be preferrable).

[dal]

My two girls are in Britax Marathons. While they are great carseats, I am looking to get a booster for when my oldest is around 5.5 years old. I am moving my two girls to the third row in my Odyssey and with two Marathons back there, it is super tight. When my baby (due in Dec) is ready to move from the Snugride to the Marathon, I'd like to move my oldest to a booster. Does anyone know if the Graco Turbo Booster or the Britax Parkway are smaller in size than the Marathons? I need something that will fit leaving her a little more room...

Thanks.

[Sevilla]

I'd go for the Graco Nautilus personally - we have one and really love it.

[bombedier]

My two girls are in Britax Marathons. While they are great carseats, I am looking to get a booster for when my oldest is around 5.5 years old. I am moving my two girls to the third row in my Odyssey and with two Marathons back there, it is super tight. When my baby (due in Dec) is ready to move from the Snugride to the Marathon, I'd like to move my oldest to a booster. Does anyone know if the Graco Turbo Booster or the Britax Parkway are smaller in size than the Marathons? I need something that will fit leaving her a little more room...

Thanks.

Prior to moving your oldest to a booster, you first need to determine if that child would sit safely in the booster. That is, upright and still for the entire journey - no wriggling around, reaching for toys or slumping forward when asleep. All these things introduce slack into the seatbelt which will result in ejection or injury in the even of a crash. It is safer to continue to harness - the Graco Nautilus is a great seat for this - harness to 65lbs, then becomes a booster to 100lbs. Children generally don't gain the maturity to sit in a booster till age 6 minimum.

The Parkway is no longer manufactured, but if you can find them on sale, they are probably slimmer than the Turbobooster and have much better side impact protection.

[kristin]

I am really surprised that most of my child's classmates are in booster seats already. DS is 4 1/2 and tall and skinny at only 38 lbs and there is no way I am putting him in a booster. And he likes his carseat (Britax MArathon). I plan on keeping him in it for a long time.

A mom a preschool commented on it when she saw me putting it in the car - we only have one set of car seats for the kids, so if we share drop off/pick duties, we have to take the seats out and leave them at school. She said, "Why on earth is he still in a baby seat? It's so much easier with a booster. You are going to miss out on alot of playdates because it's just too much of a hassle."

I responded - "Well, I'm an ER nurse, and maybe a little over- cautious given what I see everyday, but I feel he is safer in a carseat". I don't think I'd let anyone drive my child to a playdate anyway. So I wasn't to irritated by the comment until I mulled it over for a few hours. Now I'm really ticked off. I just would never have thought I'd face peer pressure over my carseat choice!

[bombedier]

Kristin - I'm sorry to say that the same is true nationwide. Thank you for trying to educate this misguided mother.

[mmm0708]

So true. There really is a lot of mom-to-mom peer pressure when it comes to car seats. I get a lot of comments because my 18 month old is still RF and my 3 1/2 year is still harnessed, even though he's big for his age at 38 inches and 42 pounds. It's sad that so many parents are so uneducated about car seat safety. "The box says the booster with a seat belt is okay starting at 30 pounds, so it must be fine." Ugh! So sad!! I do my best to educate but some just don't want to be bothered and do what is easiest.

[bombedier]

So true. There really is a lot of mom-to-mom peer pressure when it comes to car seats. I get a lot of comments because my 18 month old is still RF and my 3 1/2 year is still harnessed, even though he's big for his age at 38 inches and 42 pounds. It's sad that so many parents are so uneducated about car seat safety. "The box says the booster with a seat belt is okay starting at 30 pounds, so it must be fine." Ugh! So sad!! I do my best to educate but some just don't want to be bothered and do what is easiest.

Perhaps handing out the foundation's informational pamphlet will help?
http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages/4319/Foundation_Informational_Pamphlet.htm

[emschwar]

Perhaps handing out the foundation's informational pamphlet will help?
http://www.kyledavidmiller.org/pages/4319/Foundation_Informational_Pamphlet.htm

Thanks for the link! I printed out a few to keep in the cubby room at Noah's school

[LeighW]

On the subject of boosters and 5-point harnesses, my 5.5 year old DD is in a belt-positioning booster. She's fairly responsible and sits correctly most of the time. I don't think there's any going back with her.

I drove a carpool to choir last night and one of the passengers was a 5.5 year old boy. I can't access the smiley faces from the office, but just imagine a row of about 15 shocked ones here. OMG, I have never seen anything like this kid. He was all over the place, so much slack in his seatbelt that the booster was a joke.

I have a 20-month old boy and an 8-month old boy coming home soon. My boys are going into 5-point harness boosters after their convertibles. No question about that.

[Grenouille]

Here is an article on booster seat safety. They don't seem to have included the Nautilus in their study. I'd be interested to hear their opinions on it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-booster-seats,0,67046.story

The Virginia-based Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute found Wednesday that 13 booster seats don't put children in the best position to be protected in a crash.

The Institute, which conducts crash tests of new vehicles, did not recommend: Compass B505, Compass B510, Cosco/Dorel Traveler, Evenflo Big Kid Confidence, Safety Angel Ride Ryte, Cosco/Dorel Alpha Omega, Cosco/Dorel (Eddie Bauer) Summit, Cosco Highback Booster, Dorel/Safety 1st (Eddie Bauer) Prospect, Evenflo Chase Comfort Touch, Evenflo Generations, Graco CarGo Zephyr, and Safety 1st/Dorel Intera.

(snip)

The IIHS called 10 seats "best bets," meaning they were most likely to correctly position seat belts. They include: Combi Kobuk, Fisher-Price Safe Voyage (with plastic clip), Graco TurboBooster, Britax Monarch, Britax Parkway, Fisher-Price Safe Voyage (highback), LaRoche Bros. Teddy Bear, Recaro Young Style, Volvo booster cushion and Safeguard Go when it's used as a backless booster.

Five seats were named "good bets" to provide acceptable belt fit. They include: highbacks Combi Kobuk, Graco TurboBooster and Safety Angel Ride Ryte, and combinations Recaro Young Sport and Safety 1st/Dorel Apex 65, when used as highbacks.

[bombedier]

So there was some flawed testing in this report. Basically, all you need to take away from it is that there is not a 'one size fits all' booster solution, just as there isn't with a harnessing seat. You need to test the booster in your vehicle with your child to see if it places the belt correctly on your child or not. If it doesn't, try another, and another, and another...until you find the one that works for your vehicle and your child.

Submitted on behalf of Safe Kids Worldwide.
Questions or comments - Email Kate at kjones@safekids.org

Booster Seats are Not-One-Size-Fits-All

Parents Must Find the Right Fit for Their Child

Booster seats are a proven way to help keep kids safer in vehicles. In fact, for children 4 to 7 years old, booster seats reduce injury risk by 59 percent compared to seat belts alone, according to researchers at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

But a report released today by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has questioned if certain booster seats provide children with a better fit than others. Kids come in all shapes and sizes, and not all boosters will fit all children the same way. There are no "good" seats and "bad" seats as the IIHS list might suggest-all meet the government standard in crash tests. But booster seats are not designed to be one-size-fits-all. The different variations in boosters allow parents to find the right fit for each child.

It's All About Fit

Parents and caregivers should not panic and they should continue to use booster seats for their children on every ride. However, there are a few simple steps parents can take to make sure a child's booster fits the correct way.

Safety belts are designed for adults and many children are too small to get a proper fit without using a booster seat. Most children who have outgrown their toddler seats but are still under 4 feet 9 inches tall and less than 80 pounds will be safest using a booster seat.

Take this easy fit test with your child to determine if a booster seat fits your child:
1. Place your child on the booster seat and fasten the lap and shoulder seat belts around the child.
2. Use the seat belt guides on the booster seat for the lap and shoulder belts.
3. Check to be sure the lap belt rests on the top of the thighs or low on the hips.
4. Check to be sure the shoulder belt is positioned on the bony shoulder- not the neck or face. Never place the shoulder belt under the arm or behind the back.

If the shoulder belt and lap belt are on the child as stated above, the booster seat will work as designed to protect your child in a crash. If not, try another brand until you find the one that fits your child. Fortunately, there are lots of choices.

If you're confused or would like a certified child passenger safety technician to evaluate your child, contact your local Safe Kids coalition by going to www.usa.safekids.org, and clicking on "find coalitions and events near you" at the bottom of the column on the right side of this webpage.

[bombedier]

JPMA respond to the Booster Report

JPMA – Statement IIHS - Booster Seat Belt Fit Report Issued October 1, 2008

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) issued a report today that provides their assessment of vehicle seat belt fit when using a belt-positioning booster car seat (booster car seat). The IIHS report is based on laboratory testing conducted by the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute (UMTRI). The results are based on selected use criteria, lap and shoulder belt anchorage locations representing a wide range of vehicles and their own rating criteria established for the purpose of this evaluation.

The Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association (JPMA) and it’s members that manufacture booster car seats for the North American market have only recently become aware of the results published in the IIHS report. Copies of the report and the study that outlines the evaluation methodology and criteria were received just prior to IIHS publishing of the report.

Based on our initial review of the report and the study conducted by the IIHS in cooperation with UMTRI, we believe that the research has merit for design purposes but is limited in scope and it is overly analytical. The scope of the research is limited as it only evaluates belt fit with one size test dummy and does not include the full size range of children included in the use range of the booster car seat. The research is overly analytical and precise for evaluating booster car seats in real world use as a change in belt location of 10 mm (just over 3/8 of an inch) can change a rating from good to fair, or fair to not acceptable. While this research may be insightful when working in the laboratory with a test dummy, it does not take into account and provide a fair evaluation of the real world conditions of securing a child in the rear seat of a vehicle. A review of the data reveals that the ratings are very critical with small variations affecting the ratings as noted below.

· Lap belt fit – A change in the belt position criteria by only 10 mm (about 3/8 of an inch) would change the number of seats that are rated to provide good to fair belt fit would increase from 29 to 36 of 41. If the belt position criteria were changed by 20 mm (about ¾ inch), all but one car seat would be classified in the good to fair fit rating.

· Shoulder belt fit - All except 2 car seats evaluated provide good to fair shoulder belt fit in at least some of the test conditions represented.

JPMA and its members agree that the primary purpose of a belt positioning booster is to lift up and reposition a child so the vehicle seat belts fit better. Proper belt positioning places the lap belt low on the hips, touching the thighs and the shoulder belt centered on the chest and over the shoulder. A key aspect of providing this vehicle belt fit is to prevent submarining that can lead to abdominal injuries and spinal cord injury often referred to as “seat belt syndrome”.

IIHS noted in their report, “We evaluated the safety belt fit booster provide, not crash protection.” The report also notes that real world experience has proven that current booster car seats in use, like those evaluated in the IIHS study, have reduced the risk of injury 59% and risk of death 28% compared to restraining children with vehicle seat belts without a booster car seat. A study conducted by the Partners for Child Passenger Safety (PCPS) published in the June 2003 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, provided real-world evidence of the safety benefits of belt-positioning booster seats compared with seat belts alone as well as demonstrating that proper positioning of the seat belt by booster seats virtually eliminates injuries associated with seat belt syndrome, including injuries to the abdomen and spine. On-going evaluations continue to demonstrate the positive effects of booster seats in crashes.

The rating system includes specific belt fit measurements established for this research and appears to look for a one-size fits all design. The belt fit measurements are very specific and do not appear to take into account the real world experience with booster car seats. A 10 mm change (about 3/8 of an inch) in the lap belt fit measurement would significantly change the ratings. The appearance of a one-size fits all evaluation is based on the evaluation of each model with a series of vehicle seat belt anchorage locations that represent the full range for available vehicles. As seen with adults, the fit of a seat belt varies for the adult from vehicle to vehicle and vary in different seating positions within the same vehicle. Booster car seat manufacturers recognize that there is a wide variation in vehicle seats and seat belt systems that can affect the belt fit with the booster and the child. Not all combinations of vehicle seats, seat belts, booster car seats and children work to compliment each other providong proper seat belt fit for the child. Car seat manufacturers instruct and focus parents on proper vehicle seat belt fit advising them to check the vehicle belt fit as part of securing the child in the booster car seat. This instruction includes positioning the lap belt low on the hips, touching the thighs and the shoulder belt centered on the chest and over the shoulder. Parents are also advised that if the vehicle seat belt does not properly fit the child to move the car seat to a different seating location or not to use the booster car seat with that particular vehicle.

Real world experience has demonstrated the safety benefits of booster car seats and research like that conducted by IIHS and UMTRI can provide tools to evaluate and optimize already good performing designs. However the ranking of booster car seats and classifying some as “not recommended” based on minor belt position variations that are not realistic in day to day use of a booster car seat is not appropriate. A “not recommended” rating does not mean an unsafe product but instead indicates the seat belt is not optimally positioned per the evaluation criteria established by IIHS and UMTRI. This is as reflected in the IIHS statement “it’s clear that kids in the 13 boosters we don’t recommend aren’t getting the full benefit of improved lap belt fit. These boosters may increase restraint use by making children more comfortable, but don’t position belts for optimal protection.” Basing the “not recommended” rating only on optimum belt fit and ignoring the positive crash protection afforded by boosters is very short sighted. A “not recommended” rating for booster seats that have demonstrated a very positive reduction in the risk of injury in real world crashes is counterproductive as it can lead to consumer confusion, loss of confidence in the product and ultimately a reduction in use rates.

Research with the intent to improve occupant protection is to be applauded. However, presenting the results in a manner that will erode confidence in the use of booster car seats could lead to a reduction in use of boosters and thus have a negative effect on crash protection for children. To counter this, the IIHS does urge parents “not to rush to buy a new booster if theirs isn’t among the top seats. Check how it fits and remember it’s better for children to ride restrained in any booster than to let them ride unbuckled.”

JPMA and the car seat manufacturers urge IIHS to reassess the ratings published and balance them real world experience, emphasize that booster car seats have proven to be effective, and to work with the industry to further evaluate procedure they have developed.

[bombedier]

From CHOP

The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia Response to
the IIHS Booster Seat/ Belt Fit Report


On Wednesday October 1, 2008, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) released results of its study that examined the ability of booster seats to position seat belts appropriately on child occupants. The research suggests that booster seats vary in positioning seat belts; some are more likely to provide good fit, while others are less likely to do so.

Parents should not interpret these findings to mean that booster seats are ineffective. In real world crashes, booster seats are extremely effective in reducing injuries, especially injuries to the abdomen, spine and neck. According to research conducted by The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) involving children in real-world crashes from 1999 through 2002, using a booster seat in the rear seat reduces a child's risk of injury by almost 60 percent, compared with using a seat belt alone (Durbin et al, Journal of the
American Medical Association, 2003). A recent update of this analysis with data through 2007 confirmed this finding.

What should parents do in response to this study? Before purchasing a booster seat, parents should check to see if it appropriately fits their child and vehicle. Children and vehicles come in all shapes and sizes. Parents should refer to the latest booster fit guidelines at www.chop.edu/carseat before deciding on a purchase.

In summary, this study raises awareness of a booster seat's primary job - to position the seat belt appropriately on the child using it. By drawing attention to this issue, more parents will be armed with the correct information to make the best child vehicle restraint choice and booster seat manufacturers will be encouraged to further optimize an already proven effective restraint.

[seattleguamgirl]

I just purchased the Britax Frontier (http://www.britaxusa.com/products/product_detail.aspx?ID=15), which is a forward facing seat that converts to a booster for my 3.5 year old. I haven't received it in the mail yet but I'm anxious to move DS1 into it! DS2 is outgrowing the bucket seat and needs to be put in the Roundabout.

What I love about the Frontier is the 5 point harness, height and weight limits (up to 80 pounds!).

[Grenouille]

So there was so flawed testing in this report. Basically, all you need to take away from it is that there is not a 'one size fits all' booster solution, just as there isn't with a harnessing seat. You need to test the booster in your vehicle with your child to see if it places the belt correctly on your child or not. If it doesn't, try another, and another, and another...until you find the one that works for your vehicle and your child.

JPMA respond to the Booster Report

CHOP Response to Booster Report
From CHOP

Yeah, I guess this is why people are afraid to post in any of the car seat threads. Thanks for putting me in my place :rolleyes:.

[bombedier]

Thanks for putting me in my place :rolleyes:.

That was not my intent at all - I wanted to make sure people saw all the available info on this topic. Sorry if you feel this way.:confused:

[bombedier]

What I love about the Frontier is the 5 point harness, height and weight limits (up to 80 pounds!).

Just be careful on those max heights and weights - a harness is outgrown in one of three ways:

1) a child reaches max weight rating.
2) top of chils shoulders creep above top harness slot
3) top of child's ears are level with top of shell of seat.

Most children outgrow a harness by height before they reach the max weight.
:)

[lady1297]

I'm looking for a cheap booster option for my mil's car. I use a Britax regent in our cars, but just don't have $250 for another one for her car, for him to use only occasionally. He's just 4, 48 inches tall and 50 pounds. Any suggestions?

[bombedier]

I'm looking for a cheap booster option for my mil's car. I use a Britax regent in our cars, but just don't have $250 for another one for her car, for him to use only occasionally. He's just 4, 48 inches tall and 50 pounds. Any suggestions?

How about the Graco Nautilus? $150 - harness to 65lbs, booster to 100lbs?

[mmm0708]

I second the Nautilus. We have that seat in all of our "2nd" cars, DH, grammy, mom-mom. It's a really nice seat.

[seattleguamgirl]

Just be careful on those max heights and weights - a harness is outgrown in one of three ways:

1) a child reaches max weight rating.
2) top of chils shoulders creep above top harness slot
3) top of child's ears are level with top of shell of seat.

Most children outgrow a harness by height before they reach the max weight.
:)

Yes, I'm certainly aware of the height and weight limits for all the seats we buy. And since DS1 is a skinny minny (he is almost 4 and weighs just 30 pounds!) I know we'll probably never reach that 80 pound limit before he gets to be too tall for the seat. :)

[bombedier]

Cool :p - I always want to check.

[Peever]

How do you all deal with the freak factor?

My 4.75 yr old is in a Graco Nautilus. I drive for every field trip for preschool and we take one of his classmates home after preschool. All of the other kids ride in a backless booster (if they ride in a seat at all) and DS is starting to feel like an outcast. He normally doesn't complain if it's just us, but he throws a huge fit every time I try and get him in the car after preschool. He's in the a captain's chair next to his sister and any preschool kids that I transport go in the back seat in the booster seats that their parents have provided. Of course DS wants to sit in the back with them and ride in a booster seat. I've tried telling him his car seat is safer and that it's just like a race car driver's seat and he doesn't care.

I know what I'm doing is best for him, but I hate that he feels "uncool". I'm sick of battling with him every time we leave preschool. He's too big for me to force him in his seat so I end up having to sit in the parking lot until he decides to cooperate. I feel obligated to drive for every preschool field trip, even if it's not convenient for me, because I can't expect the other parents to install DS's car seat and I don't want him in a booster seat. I'm a little tired of getting asked, "Can't he ride in a booster seat yet?" from friends and family.

He's barely 40 lbs and I know that he's not mature enough. I see that every time I drive on a field trip. The other kids are constantly leaning over to play with each other, or slouching down to try and put their feet on the headrests, or leaning forward to talk to DD, etc.

DD is 14 months and just hit 20 lbs so I'm waiting for the comments about her still being RFing now!

[bombedier]

Well, my 39 month old is still rear-facing, but most of my friends know my passion for car seat safety and that I am a tech, so I don't get any comments. I am sure when the time comes to eventually turn him FF and he's still in a 5 point well into his school years, I'll hear the comments. You are doing everything right with your words and actions. From the techs that keep their children harnessed that I know, their children have been schooled all along that safety is #1 and they don't mind their seats/prefer them etc.

In response to the friends and family, I think explaining that in order to ride safely in a booster a set of minimums have to be reached and your child has not reached them. You might want to list what they are so they may re-evaluate their own decisions too. :)