Charting-to-Avoid? Come on in!

[Tonysweetie]

Clattercote: thanks, hmmmm maybe you are right, that does look about right. I guess I'll find out here soon either way hehe thanks for being such a good help!!!

BethIrish: Congrats on starting to chart! This is my first month and I LOVE IT!!!! It's awesome not having to use condoms hehe. Anyways I started temping the day AF arrived and I also bought my BBT (Basel Body Them.) at Wal-Mart in the pharmacy area. I've see them at Wal-greens before too.

[Daniel's Kitty]

Well, I haven't had questions in a long time, but here I am (I learned this on WC). I may join later, but I am wondering if anybody know ways to watch for a cycle return while breastfeeding?

I really want to keep charting since it worked great for me and I hate the pill, but I had a very predictable cycle and I don't want to get pg now. I usually get enough sleep most nights to make it easy to temp. I have to dig my NFP book out and do some looking, but I haven't gotten there yet.

I hope this hasn't been a popular question, but I don't have time to go back and read the whole thread.

Thanks

[Daniel's Kitty]

BethIrish When I first started temping I started once I got my BBT to get into the habit I just didn't use that chart to judge anything. I hope it goes great for you!

[Clattercote]

Daniel's Kitty I think one of the best ways is to watch for when your CM starts flowing again; once it does then you can start doing temp as well. After your first AF, definitely consider yourself in Phase I and take temps, check CM. Cycles coming off bfing are marked by short LPs, unfortunately, so the opportunity to UDD is less :( Hopefully you don't mind using condoms. The key thing, I think, is to watch your CM very closely when bfing and note changes and what seems fertile - and the kind and quality of fertile CM may have changed from before pg.

In terms of bfing practices themselves and when to watch for a return in fertility, I've heard that you should start looking for fertile CM once the baby stops doing night feedings (if you're bfing at night). Once you start weaning the baby, also keep a close eye on CM. And if you're doing combo bfing and bottle, keep a closer eye out as well. CM is going to be one of the better indicators at first - and then of course, temping once the CM is present will help as well. Charting is sometimes trickier when you're just coming off of pg and bfing - it may be that your body just falls back into old patterns and there's not much of an issue. But for others, it doesn't work that way. If you're interested in tracking hormones along with the CM/temp stuff, Marquette University is developing a bfing protocol that uses a fertility monitor in addition to CM - I don't know if testing for hormones in urine along with CM has been found to be more useful or not - but the nurse that works with the Marquette NFP association would know. HTH

[ADSigMel]

Welcome aboard, BethIrish! I'm approaching the end of my fourth cycle charting (seven months, though :rolleyes: ), and I LOVE IT! It's soooo empowering to know what your body is doing.

*****************

I think I might be having an irregular mucus pattern. Before I put in last night's CM, FF was giving me a good solid O date on CD78. But then I had watery CM last night, and FF changed my O date to CD74. Has anyone seen a pattern like this before? Was FF right to change my O date based on fertile CM after Peak Day? I haven't been spotting or anything today (even internally), so I don't think AF is on the way.

My Chart (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fd5e)

[AHammer]

Welcome, BethIrish! I'm on my first month of charting, patiently awaiting my first O.

I bought my BBT on amazon.com and started using it a few weeks before my first official cycle off BCP. It was helpful to get used to the thermometer and waking up to temp before the cycle that mattered.

Good luck, the girls here are so helpful :)

Amy

[AHammer]

OK girls, I'm getting impatient!

As I've said, I'm on my first cycle Post-BCP and I'm so anxiously awaiting my first O!!!My CM has been nonexistant/sticky for a long time, and I THINK today it has kinda changed to creamy, or maybe it's watery? I can't tell.
After a change to creamy, is there a typical length of days until O usually will happen? like, hopefully within a week?!?

I'm loving charting, even though I have yet to complete a full cycle. I love not having artificial hormones surging through my body, I love knowing what's going on in my reproductive system, and I'm glad that my sex-drive is slowly reappearing after PLUMMETING due to BCP!!!

Amy

[kissmary]

Hi, I'm new to CC, and I've just started my fourth cycle of charting. I'm glad there's a forum for this here, because I don't know anyone else doing this. I'm doing paper charts, so nothing to see online. My DH thinks he can create some kind of Excel document for charting, but I like doing it by paper.


kissmary
Real name: Mary (26)
DH's name: John (28)
Occupation: Librarian
Married : June 26, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: ??

[MrsKinnison]

bijouparvin I tend to have a spike just before O too. Also, your cycle may be a little off this month from traveling?

[Tonysweetie]

OK girls, I'm getting impatient!

As I've said, I'm on my first cycle Post-BCP and I'm so anxiously awaiting my first O!!!My CM has been nonexistant/sticky for a long time, and I THINK today it has kinda changed to creamy, or maybe it's watery? I can't tell.
After a change to creamy, is there a typical length of days until O usually will happen? like, hopefully within a week?!?

I'm loving charting, even though I have yet to complete a full cycle. I love not having artificial hormones surging through my body, I love knowing what's going on in my reproductive system, and I'm glad that my sex-drive is slowly reappearing after PLUMMETING due to BCP!!!

Amy

I usually get creamy about 4 days before O but that's just me

[tlew12778]

After a change to creamy, is there a typical length of days until O usually will happen? like, hopefully within a week?!? I wouldn't say so... there are cycles when I get creamy then watery but no EW. In fact, this cycle I've gone from creamy to sticky but I've been on antihistimines and am also sick right now [shrug].

[Clattercote]

welcome, BethIrish and kissmary! I have found this board so helpful - I've been charting for over a year now and love it. It has been great for DH and I in terms of TTA and it's also been really helpful in diagnosing some gynecological problems (I discovered last week that my progesterone levels are too low....) I hope that you find charting helpful as well!

AdSigMel Here's what I think FF is doing (and this is one of the reasons, frankly, that I don't depend on FF for chart interpretation, only for chart sharing) - a lot of women see more fertile quality CM 1-3 days before AF - It lasts for about one day, usually (this is the case for me). If you saw a true temp shift several days before, and you noticed a drying up of CM for several days after a patch of wet CM, then this "return" to fertile quality does not signify you're in the fertile phase again. The suspected reason for seeing this fertile CM late in the cycle is that there is a surge in estrogen late in the cycle.

What I think FF is doing, then, is noticing this and pushing your O date to CD 74 because it wants a nice lengthy LP of 13-14 days - in its mind, if you're seeing fertile CM yesterday, then the end of the cycle is near and it doesn't want to see a 10 day LP with a possible O around CD 78. FF likes the fact that your temps were high on CDs 74-5 and is willing to say that the subsequent low temps are flukes, because this makes your LP 13 days. FF is not totally sure of this O date, as evidenced by the dotted lines, but it does seem to be prioritizing LP length and end-of-cycle CM over your clear temp shift and true fertile CM from earlier.

I think FF prioritizes the wrong things - it SHOULD be prioritizing mid cycle CM and temp shift over what you observe late in the cycle. Your CM dries up and coincides nicely with a clear temp shift on CDs 78-9 and so I would continue to say O is on those days. CDs 74-5 are more likely pre-O spikes - if your fertile CM does signal that AF will start today or tomorrow, that will mean an LP of 10-11 days, but while that's perhaps a little short, it is definitely not unheard of! I'd continue to go with CD 78 as your O. But you can see how charting definitely becomes a matter of interpretation and that's why it helps to have both the temp AND the CM to figure out fertile days.

Best wishes!

[ADSigMel]

Clattercote, have I ever told you that you are the most brilliant person I have ever met? Thank you! That was a really good explanation.

********************

But what's really confusing me is that, now that I've had time to think about it, I'm not sure FF is wrong about this O date. The dips on CD 77-78 give pause, but I'm not sure they shouldn't be discarded anyway, because on those days I was at my mom's house, and she keeps it so cold, that I could barely sleep. I woke up shivering violently on both of those mornings.

The fact that FF is calling the O 3 days before Peak Day is also something to consider. However, in my only previous normal (not annovulatory) charted cycle in which I was recording CM, O did occur two days before Peak. Maybe that's just how my body is, and I will always ovulate before Peak Day.

The only thing that "really" worries me about the current FF interpretation is that it puts me at 14DPO as of today. I have never had an LP longer than 12 days. While I'm sure an anomaly is possible, I still don't see any signs of AF (my temp usually drops a day or two before, and I start spotting internally). So, if AF is not on the horizon, then this could potentially be a freakishly long LP. Not that I'm complaining or anything...just a possible indication that this interpretation is incorrect.

ETA: Oh, and this interpretation disregards the two days of fertile CP on CD 78-79, too. Apparently FF doesn't care much at all about CP, b/c in my previous normal cycle, it put O two days before a fertile CP (which happened to also coincide with Peak Day and a thermal shift). :rolleyes: FF is soooo dumb.


BTW, if I were an NFP wife, I would have had to abstain from sex with my husband from CD 15 until CD 81 this cycle. I would almost definitely be divorced by now. Not cool, unruly plumbing. Not cool.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Clatter ~ I've put you in the TTA masters section since you said you've been charting for over a year.

Welcome to the newbies! Everyone here has been so helpful in answering all the questions that I've had. I really love not having to put synthetic hormones into my body...I feel better and don't have awful moodswings anymore. I hope that you get as much out of charting as I have.

[Clattercote]

AdSigMel - It's just a confusing chart -your explanation makes as much sense as mine - time will tell - but to any newbies out there reading, this is exactly why having two signs (temp and CM) to cross check is so important

;) ROFL about the NFP wife/days of abstinence thing - as an "NFP wife" myself, though, if I had your cycle, I'd probably use CM only rules during loooooooooooooooooong cycles. But yeah, abstinence does suck a lot sometimes.

kemaji- Thanks - I didn't know if I count as a TTA charting master yet, because DH and I have only been TTA since May....

Gosh, I've beenposting a lot here lately - maybe I should go work ;)

[kemaji]

Clatter ~ You said you've been charting for over a year...is that not correct?

[motray36]

Beth Irish - Hi and welcome :)
Kissmary - Hi and welcome to you, too! I used to chart using paper and then transferred the date to fertility friend...its free, easy, and makes it alot easier for us to answer questions about your charts.

On that note...I really want to add my paper chart from the past year (I started charting Sept.04) info into FF, but what a royal pain in the butt it is to read all my paper-chart dots! Sorry just companining...but as I said to Kissmary, its much easier when you guys have all my past data to reference, especially with the wacked out cycle I had last month!

and toot -toot blowing my own horn for checking my CM consistantly!

[Clattercote]

kemaji-Yeah, I've been charting since Aug. 04, but only TTA since May 05 - so I didn't know if that would count in terms of being a master charter.

[kemaji]

Clatter - That counts enough for me, besides, you're super awesome at diagnosing all the difficult charts. :)

[Tonysweetie]

Clatter: here's a pickle for ya, hehe. Well FF has me on O on CD17 and I felt pretty confident in it until you said something about CD14 ...I think that's what you said?! Anyways...if FF is right that makes me 8DPO and everyone keeps telling me my Chart lokos like a PG chart so of course I've been getting super excited and took a HPT today and got a faint I meant so faint looked likea shadow of a line on an equate test. What should I call it BFN or BFP??? lol :D

[EmilyBronte]

I never post here but do sort of follow along. I've been charting since February of 2004, although I admit I stopped charting while pregnant. Right now I'm excellent at charting CM but not so good at remembering to temp. I'm glad we are super careful!

Anyway, in response to Tonysweetie's question:

Regarding your BFP/BFN situation.... I've been told that ANY line, no matter how faint is a positive reading because to get a + you have to have the pregnancy hormone in your body. You only have that hormone when pregnant. However, you are only on day 25 of your cycle. So unless you know you usually have a super short cycle, I'd probably wait a few more days and test again if AF doesn't show up. The pregnancy hormone will multiply like crazy each day you are pregnant, so if you are indeed getting a BFP reading, several days from now you should have a nice dark line.

I only keep paper charts, but I looked back at a few of mine and I also get a steady climb after ovulation and, for me, AF usually shows up between 10-11 DPO.

I hope I've helped.

[Tonysweetie]

I never post here but do sort of follow along. I've been charting since February of 2004, although I admit I stopped charting while pregnant. Right now I'm excellent at charting CM but not so good at remembering to temp. I'm glad we are super careful!

Anyway, in response to Tonysweetie's question:

Regarding your BFP/BFN situation.... I've been told that ANY line, no matter how faint is a positive reading because to get a + you have to have the pregnancy hormone in your body. You only have that hormone when pregnant. However, you are only on day 25 of your cycle. So unless you know you usually have a super short cycle, I'd probably wait a few more days and test again if AF doesn't show up. The pregnancy hormone will multiply like crazy each day you are pregnant, so if you are indeed getting a BFP reading, several days from now you should have a nice dark line.

I only keep paper charts, but I looked back at a few of mine and I also get a steady climb after ovulation and, for me, AF usually shows up between 10-11 DPO.

I hope I've helped.


Thank you you defintly did help. I'mg oing to call it an inbetween rigth now until I get a darker line. I don't want to get my hopes up b/c yes I'm secretly hoping it's BFP! But thank you iw ill update in a few days

[Tonysweetie]

also forgot to add we had UDD on everyday that I had fertile CM, lol I know dont' yell at me, after this cycle were moving over to "see what happens" we decided we really dont' wanna to avoid so ladies this will be my first and last cycle over here.

[ADSigMel]

Well, I know this isn't really the forum for this sort of thing, but since you seem to be wanting some, here's a little...

*babydust*

...for Tonysweetie!



P.S. I'm soooo sorry to hear about your puppy!

[Tonysweetie]

awh thanks!!! :)

[Clattercote]

kemaji and AdSigMel Thanks for the praise - somehow I really enjoy figuring out charts - I've thought about becoming a FAM/NFP instructor but I dunno....

Tonysweetie It's interesting because I wouldn't say your chart looks like a pg yet; there's no suggestion of triphasic temps, for one thing. And if you count CD 14 as O date, you're still only 12-13 dpo, which is still part of a normal LP in a non pg cycle. People tend to say charts look pg once you've gotten to 15 or 16 dpo, and 18 dpo is an almost sure pg unless there's something else going on. However, EmilyBronte is right, too, in that if you've taken a test and it's showing a line, however faint, that's probably a positive. It's possible to get pos. tests as early as 10 dpo (but REALLY rarely), depending on the kit and how accurate it is, but not as early as 8 dpo, which does suggest that your actual O date was more around CD 14.

It's still a wait and see thing though, since a false positive is possible.... ETA: I'm happy to spread a bit of baby dust your way too since you want it - but this might not be your last post here - maybe you'll come back after a pg? ;)

[eagleswings]

False positive? I always get these things confused in my head... I thought it was possible to get a false negative but not possible to get a false positive, for the reason that EmilyBronte mentioned (pregnancy hormones would be the only thing that could trigger a positive). But maybe it's the other way around? Which one is it?

[Clattercote]

eagleswings - it's possible to get both! False negs are more likely, you're right - but check out this website: http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/falsepositive.html

[EmilyBronte]

Interesting article, Clattercote. I knew that false positives had a much lower incidence than false negatives, but never really knew why.

[BethIrish]

Thanks for the warm welcome, ladies! I think during my lunch today I'm going to hit CVS for a thermometer so I can start. AF should arrive this weekend...I'm excited to begin charting. I was just checking out some peoples charts...I'm just continually amazed by our bodies. Who would've thought that by charting daily temperature we can figure out how we are cycling. AMAZING! :p :)

Tonysweetie Good luck and I hope you get the result you want. How long after you tested did the line show up?

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks ladies!!! I'm just going to wait this out a few more days :) When I took the test the line showed up immediately. I'm just going to wait until about Sunday or Monday to test. Thanks ladies!!! :D

[honeygirl]

Tonysweetie - I had a hunch you wouldn't stick around since you kept having too much fun with UDD :) Best wishes with the "seeing what happens", I'd be happy to give you babydust! (not sure how that works btw since I've only been in the waiting thread and this one :) ).

Well my chart is looking hopefull I think.
http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

I think I may be ovulating? Maybe maybe? Fingers crossed and all that. It is good for me to see the change b/c I was BUMMED a couple days ago after reading TCOYF. I was reading about mid-cycle bleeding (which I had this month) and am concerned that I may still have something wrong with me (I had bleeding while on the BCP which ended up being fibroids that had to be surgically removed). I guess we'll see!

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks honeygirl...it looks like there could be a possiable O coming up for you! YAY! :D I'll keep my fingers crossed for you

[bijouparvin]

Well, FF has called an O on CD17, and I agree so I guess you gals were right about my unprecedented random high temp. Still a good reminder for the future not to be silly on CD11 unless we're changing our plans!

BTW, Kemaji, once I complete this cycle I will have successfully charted to avoid for 12 complete cycles (about two weeks short of a year). Hard to believe it's already been that long, since I think it was you that turned me on to charting in the first place!

Happy charting, gals!

[Daniel's Kitty]

Tonysweetie- Yea!!! That is great news! I loved seeing that positive for us!

[chinadoll]

hmm...I haven't been getting notifications. Just starting my 12th cycle -- it's hard to believe it has almost been a year!

I have a question about my last cycle. I was travelling quite a bit, and I missed a bunch of temps in the middle, but I think Ovusoft and FF are both wrong this time.

FF is calling an O on day 13, and Ovusoft isn't calling one at all (which never happens). I, however, think that O probably took place on CD16 based on the temp jump there (i'd put the coverline at 97.7). what do you all think?

[tlew12778]

Chinadoll - Hard to say bc you have lots of open circles and no CM that would otherwise indicate O last cycle... BUT, if you did O on CD13 that meant you had a 15 day LP! Just bc of that I would say O on CD15 based on temps.

This cycle is horrible for me. Aside from the fact that I was bad about checking CM, I have little to no CM bc I am on decongestants/antihistamines (hence my laziness about checking it). On top of that I got sick right at O (or what FF is saying is O) and I don't know if the O is real or fever-induced. I've been sick since the evening of CD21 and didn't start running a low-grade fever until the afternoon of CD22 (which is why FF used the rule of thumb), and I am pretty sure the low-grade fever has been coming and going ever since then. I guess I won't know until AF shows up in 6 days if FF was right. I'm kind of scared to UDD so I think we will just play it safer rather than be sorry.

[Tonysweetie]

10DPO...nothing really to report, except major sore BB's, leg cramps, cramps, and fatigue so just waiting :) God Bless!!!

[AHammer]

My CM is stupid!!! Seriously, I have been recording it, but have no idea if it's "right"

At first it was definitley sticky. After that, it was much smoother, but not at all like the pictures of creamy that I saw in TCOYF. Yesterday, however, it was TOTALLY lotiony like in TCOYF, so I don't know if everything before that counted as sticky or not? Then today, it's very clear, liquidy, and smooth. So maybe that's water? It's not stretchy so I know it's not EW.

What I've got today forms little peaks when I pull my fingers apart, and I remember TCOYF described those in the sticky type, but does that also apply to watery?

I know I just need to wait a few cycles so I'll be used to it, but I just don't know if I'm charting this goo correctly :)

Amy

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

chinadoll-I agree that it is difficult to say for sure with all the open circles and missed temps. You have had one other cycle with a 15 day LP, so it isn't impossible, but I am more inclined to agree with tlew that CD15 is your O day as an 11 - 13 day LP is more common for you.

Tonysweetie-I still agree with Clatter, that there is a very good chance you O'd on CD13 if you look at the temps alone. That would put you at 14 DPO. That temp shift from CD12 - CD14 is just so dramatic, and the three temps immediately after it are in the same range as practically all of your post-O temps.

[kemaji]

AHammer-CM doesn't have to progress in a linear line from none to sticky to lotiony to EW, you could get patches of more fertile and less fertile, depending on how long your cycle is. I suggest taking lots of notes and checking the pictures in TCOYF frequently. I still do, after a year because sometimes I'm just confused.

[Clattercote]

AHammer It took me 8 months to figure out what was fertile CM for me! In the end, I got it by paying very, very close attention to details for a month, and after that I mostly got it. But like Kemaji, I too look at the pics in TCOYF on occasion. My advice is to keep doing exactly what you're describing - write down all kinds of details about your CM and you'll be able to know, after a month or two, what is creamy or lotiony or watery for you. It has a huge subjective component. Based on what you've said, I might characterize as watery and lotiony, while yesterday was more creamy and lotiony.

[Tonysweetie]

kemaji: Thanks, well if I am 14DPO then taht mean I should be due for AF today and well that's not happening, lol at least not yet. I usually get a day or two of spotting before AF arrives and that hasn't happened either. hmmm. I have sore bb's like she is going to show. I have been having dull cramping the past couple days and terriable leg cramping which is really unusual for me. Also feelin dizzy and sick to my stomach mildly. So just waiting. It's amazing how much more you notice when charting than you do wheny oru not, lol. I'll update!!! God Bless!!! :D

[MrsKinnison]

AHammer You are not alone with the CM confusion! I'm on my 10th cycle charting and some days it is so easy to classify and other days not so much. I still have to come here and to the book sometimes to figure it out, but it does get easier and easier.

Tonysweetie Lots of baby dust to you!!!

WOW! Is it me, or has it been really busy here lately? Even though I don't post much, I always come and check up to see how everyone is. It seems like lately if I miss a day I have pages to read. I think its great!

[Tonysweetie]

MrsKinnison Thanks!!! It does seem busy in here lately :) Have a blessed weekend.


Well today (if FF is right) I'm 11DPO and I took a test with FMU and got a BFN :( So idk what to think. If I O'd on CD13/14 like some ladies thought I did I would be 15DPO and that uusally would be a BFP by now so I guess I'm gonna go with the BFN just waiting for AF too arrive I guess. Thank you ladies I'll update when I know. OH and yes Clatter I will be back at TTA after our first baby is born :) :D

[AHammer]

Thanks y'all for the help with CM!!

I just had to pop on real fast and say I got my first EW CM today!!! It was stretching to about an inch, and it was really quite exciting, lol. Now I just wait for the temperature rise, which I'm really anxiously anticipating, hehehe. Being a scientist, this stuff is just too cool for me. It's amazing how LITTLE i knew about my body.

[eagleswings]

Well, I'm sure I've Oed now just not sure which day it happened... you were right Clatter, it wasn't CD 65/66, because I'm not PG (we tested). Can you ladies take a look and see what you think? I've been noting CM in my undies and have had a fair amount most days, it seems pretty creamy overall which is pretty normal for me, so that doesn't help much.

Here's the link to my chart. (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/44e46)

[tlew12778]

eagleswings - I'd say CD 74 with a slow rise, or CD78 but you didn't note CM so I'm not sure. Is your last chart correct? You had an 18 day LP?

[Clattercote]

eagleswings I'm gonna go with 79 as the start of a stair step rise - it's confusing, though, because of the creamy CM. Am I remembering correctly, that sometimes creamy CM is fertile quality for you?

[kemaji]

I have a question for those of you who chart your cervical postion/feeling--how many days before O does it start to soften? The reason why I asked is because today when I checked, it seemed awfully soft. The position was med/medium high...

This has been the hardest thing for me to figure out because it seems so subjective, even depending on what time of day I check (I try to check at the same time each day).

[Tonysweetie]

I have a question for those of you who chart your cervical postion/feeling--how many days before O does it start to soften? The reason why I asked is because today when I checked, it seemed awfully soft. The position was med/medium high...

This has been the hardest thing for me to figure out because it seems so subjective, even depending on what time of day I check (I try to check at the same time each day).


mine changes different texture, positions during the day I've noticed.

[Clattercote]

Progesterone therapy - Some of you were asking about progesterone therapy when I announced that progesterone deficiency is one of my current cycle problems - well, I received progesterone cream in the mail yesterday, and as luck would have it, today happens to be the first day I get to use it. You use it from Peak day +1 until Peak Day +12, and basically rub a scant teaspoon into your upper arm or stomach. We'll see how it goes. My doctor ordered the prescription for me from Women's International Pharmacy - http://www.womensinternational.com/ -

[ADSigMel]

Just checking in to make a no-babies announcement. I'm at CD 3.

Kemaji, my CP changes a lot during my cycle, as to whether it's open or closed, high or low, and soft or firm. But it does seem like I start getting more of the signs going in the fertile direction in the week leading up to O. My cervix starts to rise about a week before, starts to soften about 5 days before, and starts to open about 3 days before. At least that's a general trend I've seen over the past few cycles. I have no idea if I'm just seeing that because I'm looking for it or if it's actually how it goes.

[eagleswings]

Yep, I had an 18-day LP last chart! I was sure I was PG, even though we had used condoms consistently, because of the 18 days and the somewhat triphasic temp. pattern. That cycle was also the earliest I've ever Oed (by ten days!!!). So I was all happy, thought marriage was good for my cycle, that maybe I would regulate and have more "normal" cycles now. Ha! Welcome to CD 87...

Yes, Clatter, creamy CM can be fertile for me. It can be infertile too though. My body is not consistent at all from cycle to cycle, and after a year and a half of charting I'm getting really tired of this. My CM doesn't seem to have any pattern to it - some months I'll have two weeks of EW before O, some months I won't have any EW whatsoever. Some months I'll dry up after O, some months I'll have creamy CM all the way through AF.

Honestly, I'm pretty discouraged about charting right now. I may end up PG this cycle anyway because DH and I thought I had Oed (plus it's been a LONG ten weeks using condoms and DH is SICK of them!) so we UDD a couple times the week before it looks like I actually Oed. :rolleyes: If I'm not PG I'll probably chart one more cycle and depending on what happens with that cycle we may talk about other BC options... I'm just tired of being confused about what's going on with my body. I don't know. At this point it's just a wait and see game for another ten days or so. Thanks for your input ladies.

[dana92504]

can you add me?? :)


Real name: Dana (24)
DH: Chad (25)
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
Married: 9.25.04
Started charting: August 2005
TTC: probably nevah!

[tlew12778]

eagleswings What has your dr said about your irregular cycles? Has s/he investigated further into the cause? The 18 day LP makes me wonder if you have a cyst or something. I think that cysts can cause long LPs. I'm just kind of htinking out loud bc you know, once you can define the problem, it's just a lot easier to deal with charting. I mean, at least you can try to be proactive about fixing it you know? I can totally understand you on the "charting the unexpected is not exciting" stuff. I jsut can't take the BCP anymore so I have no other choice. FH actually asked me if I would consider a diaphragm now even though he was dead set against it when I first started charting a year ago.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Welcome, dana!

I was going to respond to everyone, but work calls. Be back later for replies.

[Clattercote]

eagleswings ITA with tlew - I'm wondering about what your doc says - and I'd encourage you to find a FAM friendly doc if at all possible - because it doesn't have to be this way...

[motray36]

Hi everyone- Just checkin in and saying hi
Tonysweety - another temp jump today? Sorry, I was chart-stalking:D
Clattercote - thanks for the prog. update....if my stupid cycles dont normalize, I might present this idea to my doc (not that she would believe me, since she doesnt understand how someone with 45 day cycles can ovulate on day 38...grr)
Dana - Welcome :)

[eagleswings]

Yeah, I've moved three times in the past year and changed health insurance twice in addition to being in school, getting married, helping with my BIL's wedding, and driving across the country, so I haven't had time to sit down with a dr. yet and discuss things. I've thought for some time that I may have PCOS, as I have a good number of the symptoms. Our new insurance just kicked in a couple of weeks ago and we don't have our cards yet, but once we get them I plan on making an appt. I guess I'm also waiting to see if I'm PG at the end of this cycle because of the wacky temps.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement! I have tried to be proactive on my own, taking B6 and other "cycle supplements" at various times, but they don't seem to do much for me. I'll keep y'all updated.

[HisSpicy]

Coming to join this awesome group! I am only on my second cycle, but very excited to be using this method, as is FH. I love feeling in control!

screen name (here and WC): HisSpicy
Real name: Natalie (20)
FH's name: Rodney (22)
Occupation: Student
FH's Occupation: Student and Auto Detailer
Married: date not set
Started charting: 9/4/05
TTC: Long time from now!

[Tonysweetie]

motray36 Yep went up today. Today is 14DPO and had a spike. :D I took an equate test around 5 in the afternoon before DH came home but got a BFN so who knows? I'm taking another in the morning. I'm nervous, lol. Is it normal to get BFN as late as 14DPO??? I had a couple hrs. of spotting yesterday and today but I mean internal hardly even pink spotting that was gone after finding it, lol. Getting my hopes up!!!! :D

[Tonysweetie]

HisSpicy Welcome!!!

[Angelfish]

I finally ovulated on CD 102! Yay!

[Clattercote]

eagleswings - You know, I tried supplements for a while too but I wasn't too diligent with it - eventually, I just decided they weren't working for me - even though I know they work for a lot of people. But a lot of times, the problem isn't entirely with diet and nutrition - I would think there's something else going on with your cycles....

[motray36]

tonysweetie Well, before my last cycle, Id say 14 DPO is a long LP....but my last one for some unknown reason went to 18 dpo, after a year of 10 and under. Who knows!

HisSpicy Welcome!

[dana92504]

thanks for the welcome ladies! :D

have a quick question from a not so techie chic - how do i make a link 'say' what i want it to. i don't want the long link in my sig - i just want it to say Dana's Chart or something like that.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

HisSpicy, welcome!

Dana, you want to put this in your sig, just remove the asterisk:

Dana's Chart

eagleswings, I was going to ask what the other ladies asked, about your doctor. I hope you can figure out what is going on.

Tonysweetie, I noticed you changed the temps in your chart...

[HisSpicy]

Thank you all for the warm welcome!
Luckily I don't have any questions about this cycle. I ovulated rather late, but now that I've had a temp. shift and CM drying up, everything is normal. I suppose the lateness can be attributed to stress, college isn't exactly a walk in the park!
And this is only my second cycle charting, but I have been paying attention to CM for a while, and have always had some sort of obsession with taking my temperature. Since I was little I have loved to take my temp. all the time, whether I felt sick or not, it was just fun. So I know its really normal for me to have the low temps that I do. Even during the day I don't hit the 98s.

[dana92504]

hisspicy - i don't think i can really welcome you since i just joined but glad to see another newbie ;)

looks like we're in the same boat as far as starting charting - i just started 2 cycles ago too! and this past cycle looks like it was a bit late in O and a short LP.

i *heart* charting (i love taking my temp in the am b/c it's almost like i go back to sleep and the beeping bbt is my snooze)! i was never regular - even bcp didn't regulate. so i gave up a loooong time ago and have always just relied on condoms. now that i'm married, i didn't think that was totally fair to dh (he's not too keen on 'em) and i didn't want to be on bcp b/c i don't feel totally safe with them (extra hormones, for *me* not enough long term studies, etc) so i figured i'd give charting a go. i'm really liking it but still reading up on it - luckily dh is oot A LOT so i'm not having to stress too much about the safe days ;)....finding you chicas has really helped - it's like cliff notes for all these books!!

[Tonysweetie]

Hey ladies! 15DPO and AF is arriving. I started lightly bleeding today so I'm counting on CD1 tomorrow. So this will be my last post in this thread, were moving over to "seeing what happens" Had a major temp. drop today down to 97.6 so I know she's on the way. BLAH! Ohwell. I will be back after our first is born lol. Who knows how long that'll be. Thank you for all your support and advice on my first month of charting. God Bless!!! :D :p :D

kemaji Yea, I went back last night and realized I entered the wrong number I had put 98.3 but it really was 98.1 whoops, hehe. I didn't even notice until about a few hrs. later :)

Off to "seeing what happens" *waves bye bye *

[Clattercote]

Welcome Dana and HisSpicy - I hope you find this board helpful! I certainly have....

Tonysweetie - Huh, but that really does raise questions for me about your temps. I guess that's why the CM sign is important - but it is odd for the temp to be quite so out of joint - did you do something different w/r/t temp on those days?

18 day lps - I dunno guys, I'm certainly not the poster child for consistent LPs (anywhere from 4 to 13 days, hence the progesterone :) ), but an 18 day LP just seems excessively long and indicates that there's an issue with a cyst or something, when there's no pg

[kemaji]

Tonysweetie - Again, I agree with Clatter about your long LP. If you notice having a long LP with any sort of regular occurance, I would definitely talk to your doctor about it. Congratulations on moving on, come back and let us know when you are pregnant.

[Tonysweetie]

I didn't think a 14/15 day LP is long?? Usually after I get my sore bb's it's usually about 2 weeks before AF arrives. I always read that was normal to have a 14-16 day LP?? hmmm ohwell. I know I don't have any cysts b/c I just had my yearly OB/GYN and she checked for that and there wasn't any. NOw you have me all concerned that something is wrong. :(

[tlew12778]

Tonysweetie Most of us are talking about eagleswings' 18 day LP last cycle. But, depending on how you interpret your chart, you may have had an 18 day LP. Before I would worry though I would chart a few more cycles. You don't seem to have LONG cycles which implies to me that you are o-ing at some point (unless you have a low endometrial threshhold which I doubt). If anything I would have wondered about an early MC, not a cyst.

[Tonysweetie]

Tonysweetie Most of us are talking about eagleswings' 18 day LP last cycle. But, depending on how you interpret your chart, you may have had an 18 day LP. Before I would worry though I would chart a few more cycles. You don't seem to have LONG cycles which implies to me that you are o-ing at some point (unless you have a low endometrial threshhold which I doubt). If anything I would have wondered about an early MC, not a cyst.

Ohhh good, lol I was getting a bit worried. If I had an early MC then I guess that would make sense who knows? I could've had a an 18 LP fo rall I know. It does sorta look like I could've O'd on CD13 or 14 but it's kinda hard to tell b/c I didn't temp. quite right in the beginning (different times of the time) I didn't start temping. like I should until about after the first couple weeks. I know my cycles are usually anywhere between 30-35 days so I'm at 32 now so I know thats pretty normal for me :)But I usually don't get major fatigued, and sick to my stomach like I did this cycle so maybe an early MC? hmmmm

[Clattercote]

Tonysweetie - Tempwise, your LP also looked like it was 18 days, which is why I was asking how you were temping and whether there might be something to account for the temp discrepancy vs the CM. Since you say you might not have been temping quite right at teh beginning of the cycle, I feel better about the temp/CM discrepancy now.

I was bringing up lengthy LPs as a more general topic since several people here have said they have long LPs. It could be caused by a very very early m/c, but you wouldn't know if there was an mc or not - it would just show up as a long LP.

But there are other things that would cause long LPs, too, so you can't assume that a long lp=m/c. It could be cysts - maybe some hormonal wonkiness - A longer LP (past 16 days) would lead me either to relook at my chart (perhaps the temp rise should be interpreted in a different way), take a pg test, or, if I've got a history of strange LPs, to look toward health issues (as in my case).

HTH.

[Tonysweetie]

THanks Clatter, maybe I should make an appt. with my OB/GYN for some blood work just to be sure. I doubt it's a cyst since like I said that I Just had my yearly unless it just showed up within the past few weeks. I'll chart another one and see what happens. Maybe I'll stick to another TTA chart just to be sure. DH agrees that maybe we should TTA one more month before moving over to the seeing what happens. So I guess I'll be around another month. :D What sort of health issues could this be? I'm worried that maybe DH and I have infertility issues or something. I'm sorry I'm a major worry wort when it comes to my health, I get it from my Dad, lol.

[tlew12778]

The other reason it likely is not a cyst is bc you were on BCP 3 months ago. the BCP reduces cysts. That's why the prescribe them for women with PCOS.

[Clattercote]

I'm actually thinking there likely aren't any health issues here - my main concern is the temps, but like I said, that might be due to other things - It's totally up to you of course, but it might well be worth another chart, just to see what happens. From my own experience it's really hard to make any calls about cycles on the basis of one chart, especially if you're a first-time charter - but after two, there'd be more info. So I'd be inclined to wait for more data (another month's chart) before making an appt with a gyn. It's amazing what charting can do in terms of helping people spot problems - or not!

[HisSpicy]

Daylight Savings Time :eek: :confused:
So, I just realized that I have to deal with this this weekend. What a wonderful thing for those of us new to charting. I'm wondering how all you ladies who have gone through the time change before, have dealt with it. Did you do what the TCOYF said, (ex. if you temp at 6AM, Friday temp at 6, Saturday 6:20, Sunday after setting clocks back 5:40, and Monday back to 6)? Does it make a huge difference? What happens if you just don't deal until monday? I am going to be pretty drunk both Friday and Saturday nights, and I typically don't even take my temp the morning after.
What do you normally do about time changes?
What should I do given I'll be drunk all weekend and am past ovulation? (And if I don't worry about it, will my monday temp look different?)
THANK YOU!

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks ladies. I'll chart another month just to be sure :) I chanced my chart to CD1 today b/c AF defintinyl arrived full force earlier this afternoon. SO I'm CD1 today. Kinda boring I guess :) So just waiting to O again.

[kissmary]

HisSpicy, I wouldn't worry about temping with the time change since you are post ovulation (and drinking a lot could affect your temp anyways). When I changed time zones for a vacation in August, that is how I changed temping times, though, and I didn't notice any difference.

[tlew12778]

Daylight Savings Time :eek: :confused:
So, I just realized that I have to deal with this this weekend. What a wonderful thing for those of us new to charting. I'm wondering how all you ladies who have gone through the time change before, have dealt with it. Did you do what the TCOYF said, (ex. if you temp at 6AM, Friday temp at 6, Saturday 6:20, Sunday after setting clocks back 5:40, and Monday back to 6)? Does it make a huge difference? What happens if you just don't deal until monday? I am going to be pretty drunk both Friday and Saturday nights, and I typically don't even take my temp the morning after.
What do you normally do about time changes?
What should I do given I'll be drunk all weekend and am past ovulation? (And if I don't worry about it, will my monday temp look different?)
THANK YOU! If you're REALLY bored you can go back to the WC thread bc we had pages of discussion on this last year. Basically it boiled down to most people just temping at their normal time and it didn't really affect their charts. Since you are past O and plan on drinking up a storm I wouldn't bother temping unless you are close to AF and do not want suprises. Regadless, the alcohol will affect your temps more than the time change I think. You're monday temp will not look any different provided you do not drink Sunday night.

[Clattercote]

Whenever I am temping across several time zones or there's a time change like this weekend, I just keep temping at the same time - there are often some differences for me, but the point is the pattern, not the individual temps - and I can always use the thumb rule or the shaving rule if I have to. If I'm post-O I often won't temp, especially if I've travelled more than one time zone away - it's just too aggravating.

[HisSpicy]

Thank you all for your advice. I will just not worry about temping on the weekend, and with an 8AM Monday class, I will be sober Sunday night.
Thanks again!

[AHammer]

I'm really hoping O is on the way. I'm getting scared that I'm going to have a huge long cycle this time around since it's my first Post-BCP. I've had EW off and on for several days now, and my temperature is slowly rising, but I know it needs to be a huge jump. Based on my chart, I'd guess I'm looking for a few temperatures over 98.2ish.

I also don't know if my clothing while sleeping is affecting my chart. I've gone from nothing on some nights to some nights where I wear a hooded sweatshirt and long pants! The weather's going through a big transition here in TX and I just can't figure out if it's affecting my chart!

Oh well, here's hoping I'll O soon :)

Amy

[tlew12778]

Yes clothing will make a difference. As will an extra cover. Just not it in your notes. FWIW I had a perfect cycle right off BCP (actually short LP of 9 days but everything else was by the book). It was actually the only cycle I ever got EWCM like the photo in TCOYF. Also, you may not necessarily see a jump, you could have a slow rise.

[Tonysweetie]

Hammer: My first cycle off BCP was like clockwork I got it at 33 days like I used to be my periods before BCP, then my 2nd cycle was like 49 days and my third was 32 days. Just give it time. I was only on BCP for 9/10 months though so who knows. You'll O eventually!!! Keeping fingers crossed that you O soon. Also I've noticed the nights I wear my PJ pants vs. shorts to bed my temp. is different or if we sleep w/the window opened if it's a nice night. :D

[HisSpicy]

So this is interesting. Last night I decide to have a nightcap, couple of shots and off to bed I go. This morning my temp. was 97.4, after having been 97.6 the past 3 days. And I didn't change anything except adding the alcohol. The heat was still on, I slept in the same pjs, use the same amount of blankets. I thought it was supposed to go up? I'm not really worried, just a little confused. :confused:

[bijouparvin]

All right, so I'm back at the end of this same cycle with more questions. Reminder: I almost always O on CD13 or CD14 and then have a 14 day LP. We're talking pretty much all but one chart out of 12. So this time I didn't start temping until CD13 for a number of reasons, saw a temp jump on CD14 and figured a CD13 O. Then, my next three temps were low, followed by a string of high ones. So I followed your advice and figured, okay, CD17 O. But now, on what would be CD28, I'm cramping and at least spotting (my hunch is that within the hour it will full red AF). If my O was inded on CD17, that would make it a 10 day LP (when it's pretty much ALWAYS exactly 14 days).

If it weren't for those three low temps, I'd say this is a textbook 13/14 cycle for me. But that makes no sense based on temping rules, right?

Check it out:My Chart (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7edaa)

(you'll have to scroll down to the last cycle since I entered AF for today and it started a new one.)

P.S. You'll notice I don't track CM. My experience has been that I don't get EWCM and the rest all most falls under the category of "creamy" so it hasn't been especially helpful, although next cycle I'm going to give it another shot.

[Clattercote]

Hisspicy - It doesn't always go up for everyone - I don't usually notice a change in temp after drinking alcohol the night before - even large quantities.

[AHammer]

So this is interesting. Last night I decide to have a nightcap, couple of shots and off to bed I go. This morning my temp. was 97.4, after having been 97.6 the past 3 days. And I didn't change anything except adding the alcohol. The heat was still on, I slept in the same pjs, use the same amount of blankets. I thought it was supposed to go up? I'm not really worried, just a little confused. :confused:

I've had the same thing happen to me this past month. One night I drank a whole lot, and my temp wasn't significantly higher (I think it was lower, actually, but I don't remember). Strange!

[Clattercote]

Bijouparvin - I wouldn't worry about the apparent 10 day LP here - you have a history of consistent LPs of a good length, and so that indicates a healthy cycle - (though if your next few cycles are also off, then you might want to check it out, because it would be quite a difference from your norm)

You may have been right that there was an O earlier than we were suggesting - and maybe you did actually have a 10 day LP. The temp sign isn't the most terribly accurate indicator of O by itself - precisely because there are so many things that can get in the way of a good temp reading, especially early in the morning :) (Holding mouth open, breathing through mouth, clothes one wore to bed, whether or not DH hogs the covers, time temp was taken, food/drink ingested, etc.)

Even though your LPs have been consistent, human bodies are still not calculated machines - picture perfect histories can become entirely unclear the next month. (As happened with me a couple months ago - after 12 cycles of charting, in which I pretty consistently Od on CD 17-18, all of a sudden I had a probable O on CD 9, and a very short 19 day cycle! I've posted the chart at FF if you're interested...)

And that's why it's good to use more conservative rules for intepreting temps if you're TTA - and not to rely too heavily on past cycles for predicting the current one - any drop in temp to below the coverline after a possible temp shift is cause for being more conservative- even if the shift was established 5-6 days ago. There's just no sustained temp shift here until CD 17 so that's why I recommended not assuming a temp shift earlier.

[bijouparvin]

Clattercote - Thanks so much for the input. I guess I should just pull out TCOYF and double check this, but I thought that LP length only varies by a day or two. Is it unusual to have consistent 14-day LP and then all of a sudden lose 4 days? Was it something I ate? Should I be worried that my LP is going to shorten before we're TTC and if so, what can I do to avoid that? (aside from subtract a few years from my age :rolleyes: )

[tlew12778]

Most LPs do only varie by a day or 2 but one aberration does not mean you are on a slippery slope to short LP land. Just watch your future cycles and if you want, you can take b6 and zinc to lengthen them.

[HisSpicy]

Clattercote and AHammer thanks for the input. I have never taking my temperature after drinking, and have only read about it going up, so it just took me by surprise.

[kemaji]

bijou - I've heard that taking a magnesium suppliment also helps lengthen the LP. I'm taking a zinc suppliment this cycle so it will be interesting to see how quickly that helps.

[Angelfish]

What are the rules for when sex is allowed after ovulation?

[Sevilla]

What are the rules for when sex is allowed after ovulation?
*pops back into thread and waves*

The post-o rules are on the first page, about halfway down :).

[Tonysweetie]

CD4 nothing exciting going on my way just waiting for AF to end and O to begin. I bought some OPKs last night when DH and I went grocery shopping so I can confirm with my chart. Thought it'd be sorta fun :) So excited b/c tonight DH is taking me out to look a new ring settings for my e-ring. It's going to be my birthday present (bday on the 11th) Whoo Hoo!!! Anyways have a great weekend ladies. God Bless!!! :D

[kemaji]

Tonysweetie - Have fun looking at settings. :) So, are you TTA still, or Seeing What Happens or TTC? I had removed your from the roster but if you want to stick around for a bit I'll put you back. Just let me know...

ETA: Oh, and if it is your birthday, then your stats have changed, right? :)

[honeygirl]

Hello wise charting women. I am happy to say that it appears I O'ed this month! And, I'm pretty sure I'm nearing AF, in fact I'm a little surprised that I haven't started yet, maybe I will today.

Any guesses on how much longer till she comes?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

[Tonysweetie]

Tonysweetie - Have fun looking at settings. :) So, are you TTA still, or Seeing What Happens or TTC? I had removed your from the roster but if you want to stick around for a bit I'll put you back. Just let me know...

ETA: Oh, and if it is your birthday, then your stats have changed, right? :)


Yes we decided to TTA until next fall. Sorry forgot to tell you :) Here are my new stats

Name: Leslie, 21
DH Name: Tony, 22
Marred; March 26, 2005
Off BCP: July 2005
Charting since: September 25, 2005
TTC: Late 2006

[Tonysweetie]

honeygirl: I would say AF should arrive sometime between today and 14DPO. Usually your temp. will drop noticably the day or two before AF but mine didn't drop until the day AF arrived. I woke up had a temp. drop from 98.1 to 97.6 and went to the bathroom and AF was here. lol. It's almos tlike being on the pill again, I know when AF is coming, lol. Good Luck!!!

[AHammer]

Hi ladies! FF is calling my O three days ago. Pretty cool, because that's what I thought on the paper chart that I keep, since I think that jump on CD23/24 is enough under TCOYF's rules for drawing a coverline?? I need to whip out the book and read up on it again, but for the most part I think I agree w/ FF.

I definitely haven't seen any EW in the past two days, so cool! DH and I are still going to be super careful for the rest of this cycle and into the next one, because we're both so not ready for kids, but hopefully after that I'll know my patterns enough to be a real TTA-by-charting person :)

amy

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[ADSigMel]

Honeygirl
I'm not positive that FF has your O quite right. I think you might actually have an O on CD 35, which would coincide with your Peak Day. In that case, the higher temps on CD 31-33 would be a pre-shift spike, and you would get an LTL of 97.35 by averaging your pre-shift six. If that's right, as of today you're only at 6 DPO. Like Tonysweetie said, the "standard" LP is about 14 days, and many women experience a temp dip a day or two before AF's arrival. It looks from your previous charted cycle, however, that you might have a short LP, so you might still see AF within the next few days. HTH!

AHammer
I don't know anything about TCOYF, but the NFP rules go with FF's analysis, too. Yay for FF sometimes getting it right! :)

[honeygirl]

Thanks ADSigMel - So will FF realize that I O'd later and change it? I think that I'll be starting AF soon, I have some of the symptoms. I'm pretty emotional (say a prayer for DH) and a little nauseous.

[Clattercote]

Honeygirl - I'm with AdSigMel on this one - I'm not positive you O'd when FF said you did either. FF is often notoriously wrong with interpretations because it overemphasizes often slight temp shifts (that aren't the real shift) to the detriment of the CM. In your chart, you list that you had wet CM on CDs 34-5, which coincide with a temp dip. Technically speaking, and for TTA purposes, the wet CM is the most fertile, and the temp dips there could indicate that the previous days were a temp spike. Having said all that, though, it would be a bit unusual for a pre-O temp spike to last longer than 1-2 days (usually one day), so it may just be that your body was outputting the estrogen on those days when the temp dipped after a temp rise. For strict TTA rules, you couldn't count yourself safe for UDD till CD 38.

[dana92504]

i think there's something wrong with my thermometer. uurrgh!:mad:

for 3 days straight it's said 97.5 and the past 3 97.4....but i just got the damn thing 2 months ago. how long does one/the battery last since i just started charting 2 months ago?

[Clattercote]

Dana - The battery usually lasts about 3 years - test it during the day to see if it shoots up to more your "normal" temp.

[honeygirl]

Honeygirl - For strict TTA rules, you couldn't count yourself safe for UDD till CD 38.

Thanks Clattercote. This is why I'm not comfortable doing UDD, seems like I need to figure all this out a little better before I take those risks. However, that said we did UDD last night, but I figured I was safe at this point either way (O on day 30 or 35).

Maybe it will be clearer next month? :)

[lawgirl4]

dana - I had a similar thing occur during my first cycle. I thought maybe the thermometer was broken. I tested it out by taking my temp at various times during the day and they all came out at different temps, so I just figured that my body was pretty constant at the hour that I was temping. and sure enough, my temps tend to range from just 97.3 - 97.5 pre-ovulation.

[dana92504]

dana - I had a similar thing occur during my first cycle. I thought maybe the thermometer was broken. I tested it out by taking my temp at various times during the day and they all came out at different temps, so I just figured that my body was pretty constant at the hour that I was temping. and sure enough, my temps tend to range from just 97.3 - 97.5 pre-ovulation.

thanks clattercote and lawgirl4! why didn't i think of that :rolleyes: ...i'm so blonde sometimes :p

[Tonysweetie]

HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!! Nothing new my way. CD6 and AF is on her way out the door. YEA! I can't wait to try one of my OPK's out, lol. Never thought I'd ever get excited over stuff like that, haha. When should I take my first OPK? The first day I see EWCM or what? I've never used them before. Well I better un it's lunch time God Bless!!! :D

[MrsKinnison]

Okay, I'm going to give the green tea thing a try this cycle so hopefully I have some cm. Exactly how much do I need to drink to help things along? Just a cup a day, or do I need lots of it? TIA!

[kemaji]

I used to drink a cup or two a day and it noticably affected my CM. I have a fair amount to begin with, so it improved the quality as well as the quantity.

[Tonysweetie]

Ew I hate green tea, is their an alternative? Like maybe the supplements?

[AHammer]

what's the green tea supposed to do? increase CM??

[abear]

I've got a quick question:

I've been having a ton of either watery or EWCM for over a week now. Does that strike anyone else as wierd? Did that ever happen to you?

Thanks!

[Clattercote]

Abear- Yes, it happens - quantity of fertile CM depends on a lot of things, including what you're eating (yes, green tea and carrots can increase EWCM), what you're medicating yourself with (cough syrup is a biggie and can increase production - some meds decrease it) - but then your body may just have prolonged estrogen levels because it "couldn't" O last week (due to stress, illness, travel, etc.) and so you'd see more EWCM for longer. I often see prolonged CM when I'm having difficulty O-ing. There are times when prolonged EWCM indicates perhaps something more serious - it can be an indicator of low thyroid function, for example. If this is the first time you've noticed large quantities, and you have no other symptoms, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Tonysweetie]

When should I take my first OPK? When I see EWCM or what? I just ended AF yesterday

[motray36]

Tonysweety - Based on the fact that your shortest chart (and only chart) was 31 days, you should start testing on CD14, and continue testing until you have a sustained temperature rise. Test ideally at 2 pm, but anytime between 12-8 pm is ok.

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks! So I guess I can in 7 days gosh that's a long time, lol.

[abear]

Thanks Clattercote! I figured it couldn't be that abnormal, but I'm just getting sick of it. I did have a VERY high stress week last week and figured, even if I was trying to O, it would push it back a bit. I'll keep an eye on it anyway!

Thanks!

[tlew12778]

Green tea that you buy at the regular supermarket is disgusting IMO. The only green tea I will drink is loose leaf and better yet, make it sencha quality. I'm a total green tea snob! So for any of you that don't like green tea, make sure you try real green tea before making your final decision. You can buy some quality green tea here (http://greentealovers.com/index.htm)if you can't find it at a local store.

*******

So last cycle I had a 13 day LP. I was/still am shocked. In a year of charting I have never had an LP over 11 days. In fact, they were always 11 days on the dot. I wonder if the 2 months of BCP I was on shocked my body into new habits. Not like I am complaining about a 13 day LP... it'd be fab if it stayed that way from now on.

[honeygirl]

Okay, I hate to be annoying with all my questions. But.....I"m on my 6th day of spotting. Is this normal? I'm starting to get annoyed here as we ah hum...don't usually "BD" while I'm on my period/spot/whatever. So I have to ask again, is this normal?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

[Tonysweetie]

Okay, I hate to be annoying with all my questions. But.....I"m on my 6th day of spotting. Is this normal? I'm starting to get annoyed here as we ah hum...don't usually "BD" while I'm on my period/spot/whatever. So I have to ask again, is this normal?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424


I usually spot for about 2 days before AF arrives but not 6. I see your last cycle your LP was only 8 days and your on 14 now that's quite a difference. Maybe your O date is wrong this cycle. I'm no expert but I would just stick it out a few days b/c sometimes I get werid spotting for a solid week then AF arrives but who knows? Keep us posted!!!

[Tonysweetie]

CD8 and I have watery CM is this normal? AF just left town 2 days ago and I'm usually have dry or sticky but most defintly not watery??? Does this mean DH and I need to abstain? We DTD earlier today but used protection so no worries but why am I having watery so soon???

[tlew12778]

Okay, I hate to be annoying with all my questions. But.....I"m on my 6th day of spotting. Is this normal? I'm starting to get annoyed here as we ah hum...don't usually "BD" while I'm on my period/spot/whatever. So I have to ask again, is this normal?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424 Have you looked up post-O spotting in TCOYF? I don't have my copy here with me so I can't look it up for you. Just FYI, when I first came off the BCP I spotted for 2 full weeks pre-O. I wouldn't really worry about it unless it becomes a pattern. Post-O spotting could imply luteal phase defect but you would also have other symptoms (most notably a very short LP).

WRT your last chart, I am not sure that your O is correct. I only say that bc there are so many open circles and the LP is very short. I also am not sure that your current O is correct... based on temps maybe yes, but the EWCM after CD30 makes me wonder.

[jenji]

I just have to post and say that today is the first day of my second official TTA cycle!!!
I went off BCP in September and one 42-day cycle later I'm so excited to have seen my first thermal shift and EWCM and all those other silly things. I was beginning to think I would never see a shift, after what seemed like forever to me (a VERY regular gal pre-BCP and during). I'm excited about charting now!!

[PG-rated]

Hi, ladies. I hope you don't mind me coming in to ask a couple of questions. I'd really like to get off BCP sometime in the next six months and switch to TTA, but DH is really concerned about the reliability and difficulty of this method. He's also worried about the effect on our sex life, since we had to take an NFP class as part of our pre-cana, and the instructor made it sound like you can't have sex for almost two weeks out of each cycle. As I'm doing more research, I'm starting to realize that her rules were way too conservative, since she used CM as the only indicator, no temping.

I know the best thing to do would be to read TCOYF or another book, but if I come home with a book DH will think I've made up my mind and will likely freak out. :rolleyes: So I was hoping to just get some first-hand stories to start. How hard was it to get started and maintain? How has it affected your sex life, if you don't mind sharing? For those of you who follow NFP, how many days per month do you usually have to abstain? For those of you who don't, what's your backup method?

Thanks so much, and I hope to be joining this thread in 2006!

[nonewnames]

Ok so first off, I think FF called the wrong O date AGAIN. That being said, I think I O'd two days later than it's saying I did (that would put O on my peak day). I did have a big shift the day before I think I O'd (and the day after FF says I O'd) but it went right back down, and then I had a shift the next day (I think that's my O). ANYWAY, today I get an even higher temp and it almost looks triphasic! I know I need to wait and see what tomorrow brings and that triphasic doesn't = pregnant, but we did DTD the day I O'd (according to my records). It was protected but still...Anyway, anyone want to check it out and tell me your opinions?

On another note, this is the first cycle i've had where I've O'd even close to CD 14! Normally I'm at least CD 20...this is nice, I hope it stays this way!

AND, my stats have changed. I just turned 26!

[MrsKinnison]

PG-rated I've just started my 11 cycle charting and it has been WONDERFUL for our sex life!!! Being hormone free can do wonders for your libido :) :) :) We use condoms as a back-up - we're not so good at the abstaining bit. There not as good, but there are some okay ones out there and its only for 8 or 9 days so its worth it! I was lucky because DH was supportive all along, but he has shown much more interested than I thought he would. I think he really enjoys being involved and knowing whats going on each cyle. DEFINATELY read TCOYF, and share some of it with your DH too so he can really understand what its all about so you can decide together if it is right for you. Everyone here is wonderful, so ask as many questions as you like. Good Luck and hopefully we'll be seeing a lot more of you!

[tlew12778]

I know the best thing to do would be to read TCOYF or another book, but if I come home with a book DH will think I've made up my mind and will likely freak out. :rolleyes: So I was hoping to just get some first-hand stories to start. How hard was it to get started and maintain? How has it affected your sex life, if you don't mind sharing? For those of you who follow NFP, how many days per month do you usually have to abstain? For those of you who don't, what's your backup method? Buy the book just bc it has a wealth of information about the female reproductive system. The first few chapters are dedicated to just how it works, nothing about charting. Everyone should have this information on hand IMO. As for getting started, it was easy! I just bought a therm (didn't even have the book until 2 months into charting), took my last BCP, and started temping the day I knew AF would show. We used condoms pre-O for the first 3 months, but we would UDD 5DPO (just to be really safe, you know? The rule is 3DPO for TTA in general.) As for our sex life -- it's soooo much better now. The BCP killed my libido after about 4 years, so in the last 4 years we were down to maybe once a week? Plus, the BCP made sex really painful for me so that didn't help either. About 8 months into charting I stopped O'ing, was dxed with PCOS and was put no the BCP for 2 months. FH HATED it. He kept telling me to go back to charting and ditch the BCP. So obviously he likes it :). We dont' abstain, we use condoms as backup and I am now considering a diaphragm instead.

[eagleswings]

Well, it looks as if I'm not PG after all (YAY!!!). I was beginning to think we had blown it with that weird temp rise pre-O, but I tested yesterday and it was negative and my temp went down considerably this morning. Now, we did take the quilt off our bed last night, so I'm not celebrating yet, but things are looking much more hopeful. I plan to make a drs. appt. on Monday, as I should know for sure by then whether or not I'm PG. If I'm not, this cycle was a crazy long LP as well! So who knows what's up... :rolleyes:

[tlew12778]

eagleswings Phew! If I had to guess O for your chart I would say around CD early-80s (maybe 83) based on temps... that would give you a 14-15 day LP. CL at 97.9 so if it dips below that tomorrow morning you'd be in the clear with AF on its way.

nonewnames I really would not worry about it. Your BD was protected plus youre previous BD was 5 days before. I'm wondering if your CL should be higher. FF will base CL on less than 6 temps. If your CL was at 97.6 with a fallback rise, then your current temps wouldn't seem that high. But then again, I temp in celsius so I'm not that familiar with normal ranges for fahrenheit. Alternivately I would put O at CD16 since you had EWCM then.

[Clattercote]

eagleswings - I hope the doc's appt goes well - are you going to ask about the long LPs? Because seriously, I think there's something else going on here that is very likely fixable. Best wishes!


PG-rated - DH and I are NFP users and we've been loving it - even the abstaining times. (No, seriously!) We use temp and CM; it sounds like your pre-cana people use either the Billings or the Creighton Method of NFP, which observes CM only. Billings is less precise than Creighton, so I'd probably say they're using Billings, which is why they have so many abstain days. Just a guess. (This is why I think that pre-Cana ought to have NFP presenters that talk about all the different methods - symptothermal, Marquette, Creighton, 2-days rule, eco. bfing, Billings, Standard Days, etc. and then people can hopefully find something that fits their lifestyle in all of those methods. but it's NOT fair to give people the impression that there's only one method based on CM :mad: )

Anyway, having said all that, I'm not quite the poster child for great cycles right now - I was just diagnosed with low progesterone and I've been having a lot of annovulatory and short cycles - which means DH and I have been abstaining a lot - 11-14 days per cycle. But pre-cycle problems, it would have been more like 7-8 days. (BTW, though, it was the fact that we were charting that made me realize there were problems and that got me on good treatment - otherwise, I would have had no clue... and I would have had all these other symptoms like cold hands and feet and low metabolism that would have been undiagnosable...)

We have found that abstinence has actually been good for us, for two main reasons - one is that we're way more, ummm, excited, to be with each other after that week or two - the other is that we're finding other ways to show affection during phase II, and we use the time to really focus on other parts of our relationship, which in turn makes UDD better. And we love UDD and the freedom of it! :o DH is really supportive, though - I don't think it would work too well if one person is resistant, because then NFP becomes a source of anger or an excuse.

So, ok, we're Catholic (well, I am, DH is not) and technically following church teaching on all this, but I really think we'd use NFP anyway - we're both more natural/granola/crunchy type people and I have a strong streak of feminism - I don't think that I should be the only one responsible for BCP - this way, both of us are responsible and it's a joint decision and adventure.

As for effectiveness of either NFP or FAM (NFP with cond-ms or other backup), I think it depends largely on your motivation and how well you learn the TTA rules for whatever method you're using. You can't just assume that you O on the same cycle day every cycle for instance; you can't just assume that only a little CM means that you're *probably* not fertile; and if you're really seriously TTA, you pretty much need to be more conservative with identifying temp patterns and whatnot. I must admit, the first couple months we were trying it out, I was freakin' out all the time that I might be pg - but I started trusting my own observations and my body more. And I realized that when it came right down to it, I didn't honestly trust the BCP more than I trusted my own observations. We've been TTA for 6 months, successfully (I've been charting for over a year though) - I have friends who TTAd for 51 months successfully, before TTC (and getting pg) in a month - since their DD was born 2.5 years ago, they have continued to successfully TTA (So yes, almost 7 years TTA so far!) There are lots of others who also fit this bill. But I do have friends for whom TTA has not worked - and in their case they didn't wait for the temp to rise.

This board is pretty great about helping people interpret charts - so it's a great place to come and ask questions if you're not sure - and so it's a great place for support in TTA. HTH! (Sorry so long!)

[Clattercote]

nonewnames - I agree with tlew - I think you're fine since you were using backup - I might put the CL at 97.4, especially with the EWCM that you have on CDs 15-16 - It is too early to call a triphasic temp pattern - but in any case, you're certainly good to UDD now.

[SQ2]

Hi, ladies! I will be joining you soon. :D We're going to start TTA in December. I am going off the pill when I finish this pack in about 3 weeks. I'm going to pick up a copy of TCOYF today to learn more. Quick question: Which site works best for TTA? I see most of you use Fertility Friend. I just signed up with them but when I was setting up my account I saw this message:

FertilityFriend.com cannot be used to avoid pregnancy. All our software, support tools, community and documents are geared towards achieving pregnancy.

Any thoughts? I know Ovusoft is another one. What is the benefit of using one over the others? Do you all have the software for either or can you get by with just using the free, online version?

Thanks!

[tlew12778]

Clatter - How do you guys abstain for only 7-8 days? Were you just taking earliest O - 5 days? Or are you using last dry day rule? 7-8 days just seems so short to me. We backup for about 10 days and that's using the 7 day rule so UDD until CD10 for me, plus 3 days of high temps, for 10 days of backup (and this is assuming I O on CD17 which is not always the case obviously).

SQ2 - You cannot rely on either FF or OS to call O for you. OS will allow you to change to a TTA scheme but I still would not rely on it. Most of us only use these programs to put our charts online to share them therefore it makes no difference which one you use. I use FF bc I like the plain graphics. I find them easier to read. I also refuse to pay for OS since I am not relying on them to call O and I'm cheap... why should I pay for what I can get for free? ;) You will find a discussion of the pros and cons of both on page 1 of this thread.

[SQ2]

tlew ~ Please excuse my ignorance (and maybe I should read TCOYF before posting here), but if neither tell when you O, how do you know when you are safe to DTD each month?

[Clattercote]

tlew - We don't do it now; because of the one REALLY short cycle I had in June/July, we now have to consider TTA off limits from CD 3 till at least CD 17. But before I started having problems - using the 20/21 day rule we could UDD through CD 9 if there was no fertile CM, and then when there was a full thermal shift on CD 15, coinciding with dry up, we could potentially UDD the evening of CD 17 or 18. Of course, someimes I wouldn't O till CD 16 or later, and sometimes I wouldn't have as strong a temp shift or the CM would start earlier or not dry up so quickly, so the abstinence would stretch out to 8, 9, or 10 days. It depends on the rules you use and how conservative you want to be, of course. More stringent rules would have had us abstaining by CD 6, but in the case of a full temp rise and dry up, still safe to UDD by CD 17-18.

SQ2- It's not that FF and OS don't give you an approximation of when they think you O'd, its that they're both often inaccurate. Far better to learn the rules and interpret your charts yourself (with us to help as needed ;) ) - because FF especially tends to be unnuanced when interpreting temp rises. You're just simply a more accurate predictor than the computers are, since both programs overemphasise some things when they're looking at the patterns.

[tlew12778]

No worries. Ask lots of questions. Basically you need to watch your temps and your CM. Some ppl also keep track of their cervical position. Pre-O you have low temps and post-O you have high temps. Pre-O you have sticky-creamy-wet-egg white CM, Post-O you should have stick-dry CM. Pre-O your cervix is hard-low, becoming soft-high at O, then becoming hard-low again post-O. Based on the combinations of these indicators, you can know when you are safe to DTD without protection. Essentially you create a window around your O in which you either abstain or use backup. In the beginning, you do not UDD beyond CD6 (actually, in the first couple months you don't UDD even then as you need to know that you don't O super early) then you can UDD after 3 high temps (as high temps signify that you have O'ed and the egg is long gone).

[SQ2]

Thanks, that helps! So, what you were saying is that the charts won't predict EXACTLY when you will O but the temps and CM give you a rough idea. We are not planning to UDD at all and will probably use backup at all times. Right now I'm just excited to finally be going off the pill! :)

[tlew12778]

Right. I should have clarified. The charts will predict an O but they are VERY OFTEN WRONG. Therefore you cannot rely on them.

[kanga1622]

PG-rated - I was also freaked out after being presented the idea of NFP/FAM during pre-cana. It took me almost a year after that to research TCOYF and begin using it to TTA. We used backup all the time for the first 1.5 years because DH was nervous about UDD. Now that he knows a little more about what I'm doing and knows that I understand where we are at in my cycle, he lets me decide when to UDD and when we need backup. We use condoms as backup since they are cheap and one box can last us quite awhile. We are comfortable with the possibility of a condom breakage/slippage since that possibility isn't very high.

I am a late Oer (CD20+) so abstaining for us could be 2-3 weeks at a time because I have fertile CM most of the time so I can't use that as much of an indicator. If you are comfortable using a barrier method, charting is absolutely fabulous because you learn so much about yourself and you can use backup for the first 3-6 months until you are both comfortable that you understand the method and can interpret your signs to know when you are "safe." We are on chart 22 or 23 and have no thoughts to ever rely on hormal birth control again. I love the freedom that we have and the partnership that comes along with conciously making the decision TOGETHER every time we DTD whether we will TTA or TTC.

[motray36]

Hola ladies....
PG-Rated - We use condoms, and I have a diaphragm that I'll use once in a while, but it tends to up my UTI's, so I try to avoid it :) It's just an option.

Clatter Just wanted to let you know that you rock...thanks for your wealth of information!

[nonewnames]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the reassurance. I'm pretty positive I'm not triphasic as well. I know FF called my O date wrong and my CL should be quite a bit higher. I overslept today and took my temp an hour late and it was higher again, but I know it has a good reason (damn being out late!).

[Tonysweetie]

Nothing exciting happening my way. CD11 and waiting to O. I'm going to take my first OPK tomorow just to see. I have 7 so it's not like I'll miss just 1, lol. I had a tad of a temp. rise this morning but nothing to make it think I'll be Oing this early. Ohwell have a great weekend Ladies!!!

[lawgirl4]

hey all,

for some reason I haven't been getting notifications for this thread! weird. anyway... my cycle seems to be pretty much on track; looks like I am a CD 18-22 ovulator, for now at least. This cycle I've been trying to focus on secondary signs - skin breakouts, CM, ovulatory pain, etc...

Interestingly, when I overlay my charts it looks like my temps this month are a few tenths of a degree higher overall - I'm guessing that's due to sleeping with a warm & cozy down blanket instead of a sheet! aah, winter!

also, I think I might be one of those pre-o dip people... we'll see if it happens this month too.

hope everyone is doing well!

[Tonysweetie]

CD12 and I took my first ever OPK and got 2 lines on it, they are almost the same shade of color. The test line is a tad darker I mean the slightest of the darkest. So I bet if I take another in a few days I'll see a +. I started getting water CM today so that's a good indication. Gosh so much I've learned from charting. Just love it :) Have a great Sunday ladies!!! God Bless!!!:D

[tlew12778]

Tonysweetie Just so you know, a +OPK only indicates an LH surge which is necessary for O but does not guarantee O. The only way to know you O'ed for sure is with temps (or a transvaginal ultrasound and hormone tests but obviously those aren't practical).

[Tonysweetie]

Tonysweetie Just so you know, a +OPK only indicates an LH surge which is necessary for O but does not guarantee O. The only way to know you O'ed for sure is with temps (or a transvaginal ultrasound and hormone tests but obviously those aren't practical).


Yea I know that, thanks :)

[AHammer]

My body is great!!! I think I had a fairly clear O on my temps. Awesome. Then today I woke up and my temp was low, back into my post-O range. Just an hour or so AF arrived. Awesome, like clockwork! I'm happy to be through my first month of charting, and knowing everything looks okay!

amy

[lege]

Hi all - nothing exciting going on here - I O'd last week (although Ovusoft & FF disagree when - I agree with Ovusoft). O was a couple days later this month than it's been recently, but with MIL living with us, I suppose the stress is no surprise :-)

[eagleswings]

Hi ladies,

Well, AF arrived on Friday, so we're definitely in the clear. It's NOT clear when I Oed though, but whenever it was my LP was at least 14 days if not longer. I am planning on asking the dr. about my irregular cycles and long LPs, although I may wait a few more weeks to see if my body regulates a little more this cycle, as I have been going through lots of crazy changes the past two months. I also want to research PCOS and other conditions on my own a little bit, so that I can be knowledgable when I talk to the doc. But I'll definitely head in soon to see what's up and what can be done about it.

AHammer, congrats on having such a great, predictable cycle! I haven't had many of them, but they are really exciting when they happen! :D

[boilermaker]

It's been awhile but I figured I needed to pop back in and see what was going on.

Amy, I'm glad your first month went as expected! I can't say the same for me.

With all my travel in Oct, I kind of gave up on charting. I forgot to pack it so I missed a few days with the first trip...then with the second, I misplaced my thermometer and had to get another one. But it was towards the end of my cycle, so I figured I would just write that one off and start again with a new cycle. But so far, I'm still waiting for AF. I'm on day 39 so who knows how long this will last til I can start over.

[PG-rated]

Thanks so much to all of you who answered my questions. Clattercote, we were taught the Billings method, so good call. She presented it as so much easier and more convenient than any other method because there was no need to temp. Of course, now that I'm actually looking into it, I realize that there are totally legitimate reasons to temp that she just chose not to mention. She also told us that we would have to abstain during the entire length of my period, so imagine my surprise to come here and find the various rules for safe days at the beginning of your cycle!

tlew12778 - I thought I was the only one who had a libido drop-off after several years of BCP; I sort of assumed it had to be due to something else. I will definitely buy TCOYF at some point, but I need to wait a little bit, since we've agreed not to talk about this for a couple of months, and buying it now would just give DH unnecessary agita.

Reading through back pages of this thread has given me SO much information. I think I'll lurk around from time to time, in hopes that I can become a full-fledged member sometime next year. Thanks again!

[tlew12778]

boilermaker - if you want, you could just temp now to see if you are getting regular post-O temps, then when it drops, you wouldn't have any AF surprises.

[boilermaker]

Thanks Tiffany. I started temping again last week when I got my new thermometer, I was just hoping to get a fresh start so I could see a whole cycle KWIM? I'm still waiting for the drop.....

[kemaji]

Well, I had another 10 day LP and AF this time is really heavy. I wish my cycles weren't so short, but at least this time I had a fairly strong temp shift. I started taking a zinc suppliment last cycle but I wasn't very consistent in remembering to take it so I'm not sure what effect (if any) it had on my cycle. I think I need to pull out my magnesium and add that back into my pill regimen.

[Tonysweetie]

CD14 no O yet, still waiting... I predict in about 3-4 days possiably. I could be delayed this month I have a ton of excitment going on right now. I've recently just lost 7 lbs. (past couple weeks) so that could affect O and also my bday is On Friday and DH is planning a party for me so I'm super excited. So not expectin ga nice chart like last month. We shall see. Have a great week ladies!!!

[Clattercote]

PG-rated - Sounds like the person who talked about Billings didn't quite put it out there right - Billings does allow for UDD during phase I, just not during AF. It is very nice to have the temp in combo with CM and it means we don't worry about AF so much. But you'll find that people who use Billings and people who use STM (symptothermal) like to insist that THEIR method is the best. I think that's funny - since I really think it depends on the person and her lifestyle for what NFP/FAM method will be best. Someone who doesn't like temping in the morning may well be comfortable checking CM only. Someone who travels a lot may like Marquette (use of an LH monitor) in conjunction with CM.

Just wanted to add for whoever cares: The beauty of Billings and other CM-only methods is that during very long cycles, like many of the people on this board have, you can UDD in between fertile patches of CM. So you can use STM but if it starts looking like you'll have a long cycle, or if you have a history of long cycles, you can use Billings rules for UDD.

Kemaji- Your cycles sound a bit like mine - maybe you have low progesterone like I do - I'm currently doing the cream thing, but maybe there are dietary things I could do.... Do the vitamins you mention help with that?

[dana92504]

those practicing FAM - what do you use for your barrier protection? we use condoms currently but i'm thinking of getting a diaphragm - do ya'll know the pg rate w/diaphragm use?

happy hump day ;)

[tlew12778]

those practicing FAM - what do you use for your barrier protection? we use condoms currently but i'm thinking of getting a diaphragm - do ya'll know the pg rate w/diaphragm use?

happy hump day ;)
We use condoms right now but FH just asked me if I would consider a diaphragm. I haven't really given it much thought bc when we first started using FAM he was totally against it since I have a really bad history of UTIs and YIs. Anyway I found this from the American Pregnancy Association:

How effective is a diaphragm?

The diaphragm has a failure rate of approximately 5% for correct and consistent use. Typical use, which is the average way diaphragms are used, has a failure rate of approximately 18 - 20%. This means that 18 to 20 people out of every 100 will become pregnant during the first year of use. (link (http://www.americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/diaphragm.html))

Vs. this for the male condom:

How effective is a male condom?

The typical use of male condoms, which is the average way most people use them, has a failure rate of 14-15%. This means that 14-15 people out of every 100 will become pregnant during the first year of use. Spermicidal agents increase the effectiveness to over 95% when used correctly and consistently. (link (http://www.americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/malecondom.html))

I think both failure rates are probably more the "realistic use" failure rates rather than "perfect use" failure rates as the numbers seem high.

[tlew12778]

Kemaji- Your cycles sound a bit like mine - maybe you have low progesterone like I do - I'm currently doing the cream thing, but maybe there are dietary things I could do.... Do the vitamins you mention help with that?
I was just reading up on Fertility Blend (I just got mine in the mail) and I found this online:

As vitex has the effect of stimulating and normalizing pituitary gland functions, especially its progesterone function, vitex may be particularly useful in cases of low levels of progesterone during the luteal phase (the period between ovulation and the end of the menstrual cycle). So you might want to research vitex a bit.

[dana92504]

ya know, i was just thinking. if you only have a 25% chance of getting pg when ALL the conditions are right, and you have a 14-18% chance of getting pg when using protection - what's the big difference?

but hmmm, looks to me like the condom isn't so much better so i may talk to the doc about getting a diaphragm since i don't have a prob with infections and whatnot.

thanks chica :-)

[MrsKinnison]

dana92504 I used to use a diaphram, but it was kind of a PITA. Where I can keep condoms in the nightstand, with the diaphram I always had to get up, go to the bathroom, prepare it & insert it...not very romantic or spontaneous. Also, DH could feel it and it kind of weirded him out and could be a little uncomfortable for him at times. Lastly, you have to leave it in for a while after, so sometimes that means all day at work. Condoms are great, but for us they have been better.

[tlew12778]

Yeah I was about to point out the leave it in factor. It seems that on this (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=6133&highlight=diaphragm)thread it was the biggest disadvantage to it.

[abear]

According to FF I O'ed! However, this is only my second day of higher temps. and today's temp was not .2 above the previous 6. Why does FF say I O'd? It doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking I might have anyway, but need a few days to be sure, so I wouldn't UDD even though it says I'm in the clear. Just wondering why it works so wierd!

[tlew12778]

abear If you get another high temp tomorrow I would say it's an O, especially since you are drying up. I don't know why FF set your CL so low though. I would think that something like 97.9 is more appropriate. Actually, looking at your temps again, I might bump O to CD29... the temp shift is clearer then even though the CM doesn't coincide.

[abear]

tlew Thanks! I agree with you about the low CL and that my O day should be day 29. I don't understand why FF works the way it does, except, I guess it's trying to work with TTCers. Still, if i were TTC, I'd want to know I still had a few more possible days that cycle, rather than giving up.

I'm just hoping my temp stays up, because I'd really love to have a somewhat "normal" cycle. I was MAJORLY stressed up through last Tues. however, so I wouldn't be surprised if I had a patchy, drawn out cycle.

thanks for listening!

[kemaji]

Clatter - I would tend to agree with you about my possibly having low progesterone. I've had my thyroid checked in the past and I know that isn't an issue. My mom is an acupuncturist and she makes her own line of herbs and she has been giving me stuff to help regulate hormones for a while. I'm just really bad at taking it. DH is compulsive about putting my herbs away and if they are not staring me in the face in the morning, I forget.

Anyway, about vitex (for hormone balance), that is one of the things that I should take (more) regularly, she gives me that. She also has me taking the zinc suppliment, a fish oil capsule, reishi (for the immune system) and something to support my menstrual cycle that I only take during AF. She wants me to take a bunch of other stuff too, but I have a hard enough time remembering those.

She has some information on vitex on her website here (http://www.benedictineherbs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BHP&Product_Code=20633&Category_Code=PEEPS) that tells you a few of the uses.

dana92504 - We use condoms and even though DH grumbles about them, it works for us.

[motray36]

Hi everyone-

dana92504 - I have a diaphragm, but it gets used less and less as time goes by. It is a nice option when you aren't being spontaneous...like if you want to "surprise" your hubby with condom-free, fertile time DTD :p.

Well, I've been much better about checking CM, but I was home in Philadelphia 2 weekends ago when I apparently O'd...and was unable to temp because my 2 year old niece woke me up eariler than my normal temp time Fri, Sat and Sun. So, I overrided FF with the latest possible O date, which would have been Monday.

Any thoughts on the accuracy of this? Thanks!

[dana92504]

abear If you get another high temp tomorrow I would say it's an O, especially since you are drying up. I don't know why FF set your CL so low though. I would think that something like 97.9 is more appropriate. Actually, looking at your temps again, I might bump O to CD29... the temp shift is clearer then even though the CM doesn't coincide.


abear - i agree that it was prob cd 29 and CL should be .1-.2 higher. ff is weird sometimes. maybe it's run by a man :p

[tlew12778]

Hi everyone-

dana92504 - I have a diaphragm, but it gets used less and less as time goes by. It is a nice option when you aren't being spontaneous...like if you want to "surprise" your hubby with condom-free, fertile time DTD :p.

Well, I've been much better about checking CM, but I was home in Philadelphia 2 weekends ago when I apparently O'd...and was unable to temp because my 2 year old niece woke me up eariler than my normal temp time Fri, Sat and Sun. So, I overrided FF with the latest possible O date, which would have been Monday.

Any thoughts on the accuracy of this? Thanks! I think CD24 actually. CD25 doesn't make much sense bc you already have a high temp there. Plus you've got EWCM on CD23 and 24.

[chinadoll]

is anyone else not getting notifications anymore? I used to, and then they just stopped one day. annoying.

my cycle has been super-weird this month and it is making me crazy. I had some weird pinkish/brownish creamy-type CM for about 4 days last week -- according to TCOYF this can be considered ovulatory spotting (which I have never in my entire 26 years had before), but 4 days seems to be pushing it for that. I'm now on CD22 and no signs of ovulation, which is also very weird. I've always had cycles that are 28-30 days, and since I started charting almost a year ago, almost all of my O dates have been CD14-17. This is just bizarre. any thoughts?

[chinadoll]

some thoughts on diaphragms -- I have one. It's okay. We either use that or condoms during fertile times, and DH and I aren't crazy about either method. Condoms are easier to put on if you are being spontaneous, but DH and I both think a lot of "feeling" is lost (and we've tried a bunch of different kinds). the diaphragm feels more like UDD, but it does take a minute to put it in before hand. I had a few UTIs at the beginning but that was when we were just married and DTD a bit more. I started taking cranberry pill supplements in April and haven't had an infection since then. Once it's in, I can't feel it and it doesn't bother me.

[MrsKinnison]

So, I've been trying the Green Tea thing, and so far I'm not seeing a difference :( Does it take a while? Or am I m