Charting-to-Avoid? Come on in! [Archive] - Page 4

Clattercote

10-18-2005, 02:20 PM

Daniel's Kitty I think one of the best ways is to watch for when your CM starts flowing again; once it does then you can start doing temp as well. After your first AF, definitely consider yourself in Phase I and take temps, check CM. Cycles coming off bfing are marked by short LPs, unfortunately, so the opportunity to UDD is less :( Hopefully you don't mind using condoms. The key thing, I think, is to watch your CM very closely when bfing and note changes and what seems fertile - and the kind and quality of fertile CM may have changed from before pg.

In terms of bfing practices themselves and when to watch for a return in fertility, I've heard that you should start looking for fertile CM once the baby stops doing night feedings (if you're bfing at night). Once you start weaning the baby, also keep a close eye on CM. And if you're doing combo bfing and bottle, keep a closer eye out as well. CM is going to be one of the better indicators at first - and then of course, temping once the CM is present will help as well. Charting is sometimes trickier when you're just coming off of pg and bfing - it may be that your body just falls back into old patterns and there's not much of an issue. But for others, it doesn't work that way. If you're interested in tracking hormones along with the CM/temp stuff, Marquette University is developing a bfing protocol that uses a fertility monitor in addition to CM - I don't know if testing for hormones in urine along with CM has been found to be more useful or not - but the nurse that works with the Marquette NFP association would know. HTH

ADSigMel

10-18-2005, 02:55 PM

Welcome aboard, BethIrish! I'm approaching the end of my fourth cycle charting (seven months, though :rolleyes: ), and I LOVE IT! It's soooo empowering to know what your body is doing.

*****************

I think I might be having an irregular mucus pattern. Before I put in last night's CM, FF was giving me a good solid O date on CD78. But then I had watery CM last night, and FF changed my O date to CD74. Has anyone seen a pattern like this before? Was FF right to change my O date based on fertile CM after Peak Day? I haven't been spotting or anything today (even internally), so I don't think AF is on the way.

My Chart (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fd5e)

AHammer

10-18-2005, 04:22 PM

Welcome, BethIrish! I'm on my first month of charting, patiently awaiting my first O.

I bought my BBT on amazon.com and started using it a few weeks before my first official cycle off BCP. It was helpful to get used to the thermometer and waking up to temp before the cycle that mattered.

Good luck, the girls here are so helpful :)

Amy

AHammer

10-18-2005, 04:27 PM

OK girls, I'm getting impatient!

As I've said, I'm on my first cycle Post-BCP and I'm so anxiously awaiting my first O!!!My CM has been nonexistant/sticky for a long time, and I THINK today it has kinda changed to creamy, or maybe it's watery? I can't tell.
After a change to creamy, is there a typical length of days until O usually will happen? like, hopefully within a week?!?

I'm loving charting, even though I have yet to complete a full cycle. I love not having artificial hormones surging through my body, I love knowing what's going on in my reproductive system, and I'm glad that my sex-drive is slowly reappearing after PLUMMETING due to BCP!!!

Amy

kissmary

10-18-2005, 05:09 PM

Hi, I'm new to CC, and I've just started my fourth cycle of charting. I'm glad there's a forum for this here, because I don't know anyone else doing this. I'm doing paper charts, so nothing to see online. My DH thinks he can create some kind of Excel document for charting, but I like doing it by paper.

kissmary
Real name: Mary (26)
DH's name: John (28)
Occupation: Librarian
Married : June 26, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: ??

MrsKinnison

10-18-2005, 07:45 PM

bijouparvin I tend to have a spike just before O too. Also, your cycle may be a little off this month from traveling?

Tonysweetie

10-18-2005, 08:10 PM

tlew12778

10-19-2005, 04:27 AM

After a change to creamy, is there a typical length of days until O usually will happen? like, hopefully within a week?!? I wouldn't say so... there are cycles when I get creamy then watery but no EW. In fact, this cycle I've gone from creamy to sticky but I've been on antihistimines and am also sick right now [shrug].

Clattercote

10-19-2005, 05:41 AM

welcome, BethIrish and kissmary! I have found this board so helpful - I've been charting for over a year now and love it. It has been great for DH and I in terms of TTA and it's also been really helpful in diagnosing some gynecological problems (I discovered last week that my progesterone levels are too low....) I hope that you find charting helpful as well!

AdSigMel Here's what I think FF is doing (and this is one of the reasons, frankly, that I don't depend on FF for chart interpretation, only for chart sharing) - a lot of women see more fertile quality CM 1-3 days before AF - It lasts for about one day, usually (this is the case for me). If you saw a true temp shift several days before, and you noticed a drying up of CM for several days after a patch of wet CM, then this "return" to fertile quality does not signify you're in the fertile phase again. The suspected reason for seeing this fertile CM late in the cycle is that there is a surge in estrogen late in the cycle.

What I think FF is doing, then, is noticing this and pushing your O date to CD 74 because it wants a nice lengthy LP of 13-14 days - in its mind, if you're seeing fertile CM yesterday, then the end of the cycle is near and it doesn't want to see a 10 day LP with a possible O around CD 78. FF likes the fact that your temps were high on CDs 74-5 and is willing to say that the subsequent low temps are flukes, because this makes your LP 13 days. FF is not totally sure of this O date, as evidenced by the dotted lines, but it does seem to be prioritizing LP length and end-of-cycle CM over your clear temp shift and true fertile CM from earlier.

I think FF prioritizes the wrong things - it SHOULD be prioritizing mid cycle CM and temp shift over what you observe late in the cycle. Your CM dries up and coincides nicely with a clear temp shift on CDs 78-9 and so I would continue to say O is on those days. CDs 74-5 are more likely pre-O spikes - if your fertile CM does signal that AF will start today or tomorrow, that will mean an LP of 10-11 days, but while that's perhaps a little short, it is definitely not unheard of! I'd continue to go with CD 78 as your O. But you can see how charting definitely becomes a matter of interpretation and that's why it helps to have both the temp AND the CM to figure out fertile days.

Best wishes!

ADSigMel

10-19-2005, 06:09 AM

Clattercote, have I ever told you that you are the most brilliant person I have ever met? Thank you! That was a really good explanation.

********************

But what's really confusing me is that, now that I've had time to think about it, I'm not sure FF is wrong about this O date. The dips on CD 77-78 give pause, but I'm not sure they shouldn't be discarded anyway, because on those days I was at my mom's house, and she keeps it so cold, that I could barely sleep. I woke up shivering violently on both of those mornings.

The fact that FF is calling the O 3 days before Peak Day is also something to consider. However, in my only previous normal (not annovulatory) charted cycle in which I was recording CM, O did occur two days before Peak. Maybe that's just how my body is, and I will always ovulate before Peak Day.

The only thing that "really" worries me about the current FF interpretation is that it puts me at 14DPO as of today. I have never had an LP longer than 12 days. While I'm sure an anomaly is possible, I still don't see any signs of AF (my temp usually drops a day or two before, and I start spotting internally). So, if AF is not on the horizon, then this could potentially be a freakishly long LP. Not that I'm complaining or anything...just a possible indication that this interpretation is incorrect.

ETA: Oh, and this interpretation disregards the two days of fertile CP on CD 78-79, too. Apparently FF doesn't care much at all about CP, b/c in my previous normal cycle, it put O two days before a fertile CP (which happened to also coincide with Peak Day and a thermal shift). :rolleyes: FF is soooo dumb.

BTW, if I were an NFP wife, I would have had to abstain from sex with my husband from CD 15 until CD 81 this cycle. I would almost definitely be divorced by now. Not cool, unruly plumbing. Not cool.

kemaji

10-19-2005, 06:43 AM

Updated to here.

Clatter ~ I've put you in the TTA masters section since you said you've been charting for over a year.

Welcome to the newbies! Everyone here has been so helpful in answering all the questions that I've had. I really love not having to put synthetic hormones into my body...I feel better and don't have awful moodswings anymore. I hope that you get as much out of charting as I have.

Clattercote

10-19-2005, 07:22 AM

AdSigMel - It's just a confusing chart -your explanation makes as much sense as mine - time will tell - but to any newbies out there reading, this is exactly why having two signs (temp and CM) to cross check is so important

;) ROFL about the NFP wife/days of abstinence thing - as an "NFP wife" myself, though, if I had your cycle, I'd probably use CM only rules during loooooooooooooooooong cycles. But yeah, abstinence does suck a lot sometimes.

kemaji- Thanks - I didn't know if I count as a TTA charting master yet, because DH and I have only been TTA since May....

Gosh, I've beenposting a lot here lately - maybe I should go work ;)

kemaji

10-19-2005, 08:46 AM

Clatter ~ You said you've been charting for over a year...is that not correct?

motray36

10-19-2005, 09:30 AM

Beth Irish - Hi and welcome :)
Kissmary - Hi and welcome to you, too! I used to chart using paper and then transferred the date to fertility friend...its free, easy, and makes it alot easier for us to answer questions about your charts.

On that note...I really want to add my paper chart from the past year (I started charting Sept.04) info into FF, but what a royal pain in the butt it is to read all my paper-chart dots! Sorry just companining...but as I said to Kissmary, its much easier when you guys have all my past data to reference, especially with the wacked out cycle I had last month!

and toot -toot blowing my own horn for checking my CM consistantly!

Clattercote

10-19-2005, 09:32 AM

kemaji-Yeah, I've been charting since Aug. 04, but only TTA since May 05 - so I didn't know if that would count in terms of being a master charter.

kemaji

10-19-2005, 04:52 PM

Clatter - That counts enough for me, besides, you're super awesome at diagnosing all the difficult charts. :)

Tonysweetie

10-19-2005, 05:16 PM

Clatter: here's a pickle for ya, hehe. Well FF has me on O on CD17 and I felt pretty confident in it until you said something about CD14 ...I think that's what you said?! Anyways...if FF is right that makes me 8DPO and everyone keeps telling me my Chart lokos like a PG chart so of course I've been getting super excited and took a HPT today and got a faint I meant so faint looked likea shadow of a line on an equate test. What should I call it BFN or BFP??? lol :D

EmilyBronte

10-19-2005, 06:04 PM

I never post here but do sort of follow along. I've been charting since February of 2004, although I admit I stopped charting while pregnant. Right now I'm excellent at charting CM but not so good at remembering to temp. I'm glad we are super careful!

Anyway, in response to Tonysweetie's question:

Regarding your BFP/BFN situation.... I've been told that ANY line, no matter how faint is a positive reading because to get a + you have to have the pregnancy hormone in your body. You only have that hormone when pregnant. However, you are only on day 25 of your cycle. So unless you know you usually have a super short cycle, I'd probably wait a few more days and test again if AF doesn't show up. The pregnancy hormone will multiply like crazy each day you are pregnant, so if you are indeed getting a BFP reading, several days from now you should have a nice dark line.

I only keep paper charts, but I looked back at a few of mine and I also get a steady climb after ovulation and, for me, AF usually shows up between 10-11 DPO.

I hope I've helped.

Tonysweetie

10-19-2005, 06:21 PM

Tonysweetie

10-19-2005, 06:31 PM

also forgot to add we had UDD on everyday that I had fertile CM, lol I know dont' yell at me, after this cycle were moving over to "see what happens" we decided we really dont' wanna to avoid so ladies this will be my first and last cycle over here.

ADSigMel

10-19-2005, 07:11 PM

Well, I know this isn't really the forum for this sort of thing, but since you seem to be wanting some, here's a little...

*babydust*

...for Tonysweetie!

P.S. I'm soooo sorry to hear about your puppy!

Tonysweetie

10-19-2005, 07:27 PM

awh thanks!!! :)

Clattercote

10-20-2005, 05:13 AM

kemaji and AdSigMel Thanks for the praise - somehow I really enjoy figuring out charts - I've thought about becoming a FAM/NFP instructor but I dunno....

Tonysweetie It's interesting because I wouldn't say your chart looks like a pg yet; there's no suggestion of triphasic temps, for one thing. And if you count CD 14 as O date, you're still only 12-13 dpo, which is still part of a normal LP in a non pg cycle. People tend to say charts look pg once you've gotten to 15 or 16 dpo, and 18 dpo is an almost sure pg unless there's something else going on. However, EmilyBronte is right, too, in that if you've taken a test and it's showing a line, however faint, that's probably a positive. It's possible to get pos. tests as early as 10 dpo (but REALLY rarely), depending on the kit and how accurate it is, but not as early as 8 dpo, which does suggest that your actual O date was more around CD 14.

It's still a wait and see thing though, since a false positive is possible.... ETA: I'm happy to spread a bit of baby dust your way too since you want it - but this might not be your last post here - maybe you'll come back after a pg? ;)

eagleswings

10-20-2005, 05:39 AM

False positive? I always get these things confused in my head... I thought it was possible to get a false negative but not possible to get a false positive, for the reason that EmilyBronte mentioned (pregnancy hormones would be the only thing that could trigger a positive). But maybe it's the other way around? Which one is it?

Clattercote

10-20-2005, 05:44 AM

eagleswings - it's possible to get both! False negs are more likely, you're right - but check out this website: http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/falsepositive.html

EmilyBronte

10-20-2005, 05:56 AM

Interesting article, Clattercote. I knew that false positives had a much lower incidence than false negatives, but never really knew why.

BethIrish

10-20-2005, 08:06 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome, ladies! I think during my lunch today I'm going to hit CVS for a thermometer so I can start. AF should arrive this weekend...I'm excited to begin charting. I was just checking out some peoples charts...I'm just continually amazed by our bodies. Who would've thought that by charting daily temperature we can figure out how we are cycling. AMAZING! :p :)

Tonysweetie Good luck and I hope you get the result you want. How long after you tested did the line show up?

Tonysweetie

10-20-2005, 08:38 AM

Thanks ladies!!! I'm just going to wait this out a few more days :) When I took the test the line showed up immediately. I'm just going to wait until about Sunday or Monday to test. Thanks ladies!!! :D

honeygirl

10-20-2005, 08:42 AM

Tonysweetie - I had a hunch you wouldn't stick around since you kept having too much fun with UDD :) Best wishes with the "seeing what happens", I'd be happy to give you babydust! (not sure how that works btw since I've only been in the waiting thread and this one :) ).

Well my chart is looking hopefull I think.
http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

I think I may be ovulating? Maybe maybe? Fingers crossed and all that. It is good for me to see the change b/c I was BUMMED a couple days ago after reading TCOYF. I was reading about mid-cycle bleeding (which I had this month) and am concerned that I may still have something wrong with me (I had bleeding while on the BCP which ended up being fibroids that had to be surgically removed). I guess we'll see!

Tonysweetie

10-20-2005, 12:46 PM

Thanks honeygirl...it looks like there could be a possiable O coming up for you! YAY! :D I'll keep my fingers crossed for you

bijouparvin

10-20-2005, 09:25 PM

Well, FF has called an O on CD17, and I agree so I guess you gals were right about my unprecedented random high temp. Still a good reminder for the future not to be silly on CD11 unless we're changing our plans!

BTW, Kemaji, once I complete this cycle I will have successfully charted to avoid for 12 complete cycles (about two weeks short of a year). Hard to believe it's already been that long, since I think it was you that turned me on to charting in the first place!

Happy charting, gals!

Daniel's Kitty

10-20-2005, 09:58 PM

Tonysweetie- Yea!!! That is great news! I loved seeing that positive for us!

chinadoll

10-21-2005, 03:14 AM

hmm...I haven't been getting notifications. Just starting my 12th cycle -- it's hard to believe it has almost been a year!

I have a question about my last cycle. I was travelling quite a bit, and I missed a bunch of temps in the middle, but I think Ovusoft and FF are both wrong this time.

FF is calling an O on day 13, and Ovusoft isn't calling one at all (which never happens). I, however, think that O probably took place on CD16 based on the temp jump there (i'd put the coverline at 97.7). what do you all think?

tlew12778

10-21-2005, 09:24 AM

Chinadoll - Hard to say bc you have lots of open circles and no CM that would otherwise indicate O last cycle... BUT, if you did O on CD13 that meant you had a 15 day LP! Just bc of that I would say O on CD15 based on temps.

This cycle is horrible for me. Aside from the fact that I was bad about checking CM, I have little to no CM bc I am on decongestants/antihistamines (hence my laziness about checking it). On top of that I got sick right at O (or what FF is saying is O) and I don't know if the O is real or fever-induced. I've been sick since the evening of CD21 and didn't start running a low-grade fever until the afternoon of CD22 (which is why FF used the rule of thumb), and I am pretty sure the low-grade fever has been coming and going ever since then. I guess I won't know until AF shows up in 6 days if FF was right. I'm kind of scared to UDD so I think we will just play it safer rather than be sorry.

Tonysweetie

10-21-2005, 11:05 AM

10DPO...nothing really to report, except major sore BB's, leg cramps, cramps, and fatigue so just waiting :) God Bless!!!

AHammer

10-21-2005, 11:16 AM

My CM is stupid!!! Seriously, I have been recording it, but have no idea if it's "right"

At first it was definitley sticky. After that, it was much smoother, but not at all like the pictures of creamy that I saw in TCOYF. Yesterday, however, it was TOTALLY lotiony like in TCOYF, so I don't know if everything before that counted as sticky or not? Then today, it's very clear, liquidy, and smooth. So maybe that's water? It's not stretchy so I know it's not EW.

What I've got today forms little peaks when I pull my fingers apart, and I remember TCOYF described those in the sticky type, but does that also apply to watery?

I know I just need to wait a few cycles so I'll be used to it, but I just don't know if I'm charting this goo correctly :)

Amy

kemaji

10-21-2005, 11:24 AM

Updated to here.

chinadoll-I agree that it is difficult to say for sure with all the open circles and missed temps. You have had one other cycle with a 15 day LP, so it isn't impossible, but I am more inclined to agree with tlew that CD15 is your O day as an 11 - 13 day LP is more common for you.

Tonysweetie-I still agree with Clatter, that there is a very good chance you O'd on CD13 if you look at the temps alone. That would put you at 14 DPO. That temp shift from CD12 - CD14 is just so dramatic, and the three temps immediately after it are in the same range as practically all of your post-O temps.

kemaji

10-21-2005, 11:32 AM

AHammer-CM doesn't have to progress in a linear line from none to sticky to lotiony to EW, you could get patches of more fertile and less fertile, depending on how long your cycle is. I suggest taking lots of notes and checking the pictures in TCOYF frequently. I still do, after a year because sometimes I'm just confused.

Clattercote

10-21-2005, 12:20 PM

AHammer It took me 8 months to figure out what was fertile CM for me! In the end, I got it by paying very, very close attention to details for a month, and after that I mostly got it. But like Kemaji, I too look at the pics in TCOYF on occasion. My advice is to keep doing exactly what you're describing - write down all kinds of details about your CM and you'll be able to know, after a month or two, what is creamy or lotiony or watery for you. It has a huge subjective component. Based on what you've said, I might characterize as watery and lotiony, while yesterday was more creamy and lotiony.

Tonysweetie

10-21-2005, 12:22 PM

kemaji: Thanks, well if I am 14DPO then taht mean I should be due for AF today and well that's not happening, lol at least not yet. I usually get a day or two of spotting before AF arrives and that hasn't happened either. hmmm. I have sore bb's like she is going to show. I have been having dull cramping the past couple days and terriable leg cramping which is really unusual for me. Also feelin dizzy and sick to my stomach mildly. So just waiting. It's amazing how much more you notice when charting than you do wheny oru not, lol. I'll update!!! God Bless!!! :D

MrsKinnison

10-22-2005, 10:28 AM

AHammer You are not alone with the CM confusion! I'm on my 10th cycle charting and some days it is so easy to classify and other days not so much. I still have to come here and to the book sometimes to figure it out, but it does get easier and easier.

Tonysweetie Lots of baby dust to you!!!

WOW! Is it me, or has it been really busy here lately? Even though I don't post much, I always come and check up to see how everyone is. It seems like lately if I miss a day I have pages to read. I think its great!

Tonysweetie

10-22-2005, 10:35 AM

MrsKinnison Thanks!!! It does seem busy in here lately :) Have a blessed weekend.

Well today (if FF is right) I'm 11DPO and I took a test with FMU and got a BFN :( So idk what to think. If I O'd on CD13/14 like some ladies thought I did I would be 15DPO and that uusally would be a BFP by now so I guess I'm gonna go with the BFN just waiting for AF too arrive I guess. Thank you ladies I'll update when I know. OH and yes Clatter I will be back at TTA after our first baby is born :) :D

AHammer

10-22-2005, 07:45 PM

Thanks y'all for the help with CM!!

I just had to pop on real fast and say I got my first EW CM today!!! It was stretching to about an inch, and it was really quite exciting, lol. Now I just wait for the temperature rise, which I'm really anxiously anticipating, hehehe. Being a scientist, this stuff is just too cool for me. It's amazing how LITTLE i knew about my body.

eagleswings

10-24-2005, 05:10 AM

Well, I'm sure I've Oed now just not sure which day it happened... you were right Clatter, it wasn't CD 65/66, because I'm not PG (we tested). Can you ladies take a look and see what you think? I've been noting CM in my undies and have had a fair amount most days, it seems pretty creamy overall which is pretty normal for me, so that doesn't help much.

Here's the link to my chart. (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/44e46)

tlew12778

10-24-2005, 05:20 AM

eagleswings - I'd say CD 74 with a slow rise, or CD78 but you didn't note CM so I'm not sure. Is your last chart correct? You had an 18 day LP?

Clattercote

10-24-2005, 05:46 AM

eagleswings I'm gonna go with 79 as the start of a stair step rise - it's confusing, though, because of the creamy CM. Am I remembering correctly, that sometimes creamy CM is fertile quality for you?

kemaji

10-24-2005, 10:46 AM

I have a question for those of you who chart your cervical postion/feeling--how many days before O does it start to soften? The reason why I asked is because today when I checked, it seemed awfully soft. The position was med/medium high...

This has been the hardest thing for me to figure out because it seems so subjective, even depending on what time of day I check (I try to check at the same time each day).

Tonysweetie

10-24-2005, 11:57 AM

Clattercote

10-25-2005, 05:53 AM

Progesterone therapy - Some of you were asking about progesterone therapy when I announced that progesterone deficiency is one of my current cycle problems - well, I received progesterone cream in the mail yesterday, and as luck would have it, today happens to be the first day I get to use it. You use it from Peak day +1 until Peak Day +12, and basically rub a scant teaspoon into your upper arm or stomach. We'll see how it goes. My doctor ordered the prescription for me from Women's International Pharmacy - http://www.womensinternational.com/ -

ADSigMel

10-25-2005, 06:38 AM

Just checking in to make a no-babies announcement. I'm at CD 3.

Kemaji, my CP changes a lot during my cycle, as to whether it's open or closed, high or low, and soft or firm. But it does seem like I start getting more of the signs going in the fertile direction in the week leading up to O. My cervix starts to rise about a week before, starts to soften about 5 days before, and starts to open about 3 days before. At least that's a general trend I've seen over the past few cycles. I have no idea if I'm just seeing that because I'm looking for it or if it's actually how it goes.

eagleswings

10-25-2005, 06:58 AM

Yep, I had an 18-day LP last chart! I was sure I was PG, even though we had used condoms consistently, because of the 18 days and the somewhat triphasic temp. pattern. That cycle was also the earliest I've ever Oed (by ten days!!!). So I was all happy, thought marriage was good for my cycle, that maybe I would regulate and have more "normal" cycles now. Ha! Welcome to CD 87...

Yes, Clatter, creamy CM can be fertile for me. It can be infertile too though. My body is not consistent at all from cycle to cycle, and after a year and a half of charting I'm getting really tired of this. My CM doesn't seem to have any pattern to it - some months I'll have two weeks of EW before O, some months I won't have any EW whatsoever. Some months I'll dry up after O, some months I'll have creamy CM all the way through AF.

Honestly, I'm pretty discouraged about charting right now. I may end up PG this cycle anyway because DH and I thought I had Oed (plus it's been a LONG ten weeks using condoms and DH is SICK of them!) so we UDD a couple times the week before it looks like I actually Oed. :rolleyes: If I'm not PG I'll probably chart one more cycle and depending on what happens with that cycle we may talk about other BC options... I'm just tired of being confused about what's going on with my body. I don't know. At this point it's just a wait and see game for another ten days or so. Thanks for your input ladies.

dana92504

10-25-2005, 07:48 AM

can you add me?? :)

Real name: Dana (24)
DH: Chad (25)
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
Married: 9.25.04
Started charting: August 2005
TTC: probably nevah!

tlew12778

10-25-2005, 07:55 AM

eagleswings What has your dr said about your irregular cycles? Has s/he investigated further into the cause? The 18 day LP makes me wonder if you have a cyst or something. I think that cysts can cause long LPs. I'm just kind of htinking out loud bc you know, once you can define the problem, it's just a lot easier to deal with charting. I mean, at least you can try to be proactive about fixing it you know? I can totally understand you on the "charting the unexpected is not exciting" stuff. I jsut can't take the BCP anymore so I have no other choice. FH actually asked me if I would consider a diaphragm now even though he was dead set against it when I first started charting a year ago.

kemaji

10-25-2005, 07:57 AM

Updated to here.

Welcome, dana!

I was going to respond to everyone, but work calls. Be back later for replies.

Clattercote

10-25-2005, 08:53 AM

eagleswings ITA with tlew - I'm wondering about what your doc says - and I'd encourage you to find a FAM friendly doc if at all possible - because it doesn't have to be this way...

motray36

10-25-2005, 09:16 AM

Hi everyone- Just checkin in and saying hi
Tonysweety - another temp jump today? Sorry, I was chart-stalking:D
Clattercote - thanks for the prog. update....if my stupid cycles dont normalize, I might present this idea to my doc (not that she would believe me, since she doesnt understand how someone with 45 day cycles can ovulate on day 38...grr)
Dana - Welcome :)

eagleswings

10-25-2005, 09:17 AM

Yeah, I've moved three times in the past year and changed health insurance twice in addition to being in school, getting married, helping with my BIL's wedding, and driving across the country, so I haven't had time to sit down with a dr. yet and discuss things. I've thought for some time that I may have PCOS, as I have a good number of the symptoms. Our new insurance just kicked in a couple of weeks ago and we don't have our cards yet, but once we get them I plan on making an appt. I guess I'm also waiting to see if I'm PG at the end of this cycle because of the wacky temps.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement! I have tried to be proactive on my own, taking B6 and other "cycle supplements" at various times, but they don't seem to do much for me. I'll keep y'all updated.

HisSpicy

10-25-2005, 05:47 PM

Coming to join this awesome group! I am only on my second cycle, but very excited to be using this method, as is FH. I love feeling in control!

screen name (here and WC): HisSpicy
Real name: Natalie (20)
FH's name: Rodney (22)
Occupation: Student
FH's Occupation: Student and Auto Detailer
Married: date not set
Started charting: 9/4/05
TTC: Long time from now!

Tonysweetie

10-25-2005, 09:00 PM

motray36 Yep went up today. Today is 14DPO and had a spike. :D I took an equate test around 5 in the afternoon before DH came home but got a BFN so who knows? I'm taking another in the morning. I'm nervous, lol. Is it normal to get BFN as late as 14DPO??? I had a couple hrs. of spotting yesterday and today but I mean internal hardly even pink spotting that was gone after finding it, lol. Getting my hopes up!!!! :D

Tonysweetie

10-25-2005, 09:03 PM

HisSpicy Welcome!!!

Angelfish

10-26-2005, 05:23 AM

I finally ovulated on CD 102! Yay!

Clattercote

10-26-2005, 05:35 AM

eagleswings - You know, I tried supplements for a while too but I wasn't too diligent with it - eventually, I just decided they weren't working for me - even though I know they work for a lot of people. But a lot of times, the problem isn't entirely with diet and nutrition - I would think there's something else going on with your cycles....

motray36

10-26-2005, 06:03 AM

tonysweetie Well, before my last cycle, Id say 14 DPO is a long LP....but my last one for some unknown reason went to 18 dpo, after a year of 10 and under. Who knows!

HisSpicy Welcome!

dana92504

10-26-2005, 06:12 AM

thanks for the welcome ladies! :D

have a quick question from a not so techie chic - how do i make a link 'say' what i want it to. i don't want the long link in my sig - i just want it to say Dana's Chart or something like that.

kemaji

10-26-2005, 06:44 AM

Updated to here.

HisSpicy, welcome!

Dana, you want to put this in your sig, just remove the asterisk:

Dana's Chart

eagleswings, I was going to ask what the other ladies asked, about your doctor. I hope you can figure out what is going on.

Tonysweetie, I noticed you changed the temps in your chart...

HisSpicy

10-26-2005, 07:07 AM

Thank you all for the warm welcome!
Luckily I don't have any questions about this cycle. I ovulated rather late, but now that I've had a temp. shift and CM drying up, everything is normal. I suppose the lateness can be attributed to stress, college isn't exactly a walk in the park!
And this is only my second cycle charting, but I have been paying attention to CM for a while, and have always had some sort of obsession with taking my temperature. Since I was little I have loved to take my temp. all the time, whether I felt sick or not, it was just fun. So I know its really normal for me to have the low temps that I do. Even during the day I don't hit the 98s.

dana92504

10-26-2005, 08:29 AM

hisspicy - i don't think i can really welcome you since i just joined but glad to see another newbie ;)

looks like we're in the same boat as far as starting charting - i just started 2 cycles ago too! and this past cycle looks like it was a bit late in O and a short LP.

i *heart* charting (i love taking my temp in the am b/c it's almost like i go back to sleep and the beeping bbt is my snooze)! i was never regular - even bcp didn't regulate. so i gave up a loooong time ago and have always just relied on condoms. now that i'm married, i didn't think that was totally fair to dh (he's not too keen on 'em) and i didn't want to be on bcp b/c i don't feel totally safe with them (extra hormones, for *me* not enough long term studies, etc) so i figured i'd give charting a go. i'm really liking it but still reading up on it - luckily dh is oot A LOT so i'm not having to stress too much about the safe days ;)....finding you chicas has really helped - it's like cliff notes for all these books!!

Tonysweetie

10-26-2005, 08:37 AM

Hey ladies! 15DPO and AF is arriving. I started lightly bleeding today so I'm counting on CD1 tomorrow. So this will be my last post in this thread, were moving over to "seeing what happens" Had a major temp. drop today down to 97.6 so I know she's on the way. BLAH! Ohwell. I will be back after our first is born lol. Who knows how long that'll be. Thank you for all your support and advice on my first month of charting. God Bless!!! :D :p :D

kemaji Yea, I went back last night and realized I entered the wrong number I had put 98.3 but it really was 98.1 whoops, hehe. I didn't even notice until about a few hrs. later :)

Off to "seeing what happens" *waves bye bye *

Clattercote

10-26-2005, 08:49 AM

Welcome Dana and HisSpicy - I hope you find this board helpful! I certainly have....

Tonysweetie - Huh, but that really does raise questions for me about your temps. I guess that's why the CM sign is important - but it is odd for the temp to be quite so out of joint - did you do something different w/r/t temp on those days?

18 day lps - I dunno guys, I'm certainly not the poster child for consistent LPs (anywhere from 4 to 13 days, hence the progesterone :) ), but an 18 day LP just seems excessively long and indicates that there's an issue with a cyst or something, when there's no pg

kemaji

10-26-2005, 09:22 AM

Tonysweetie - Again, I agree with Clatter about your long LP. If you notice having a long LP with any sort of regular occurance, I would definitely talk to your doctor about it. Congratulations on moving on, come back and let us know when you are pregnant.

Tonysweetie

10-26-2005, 09:29 AM

I didn't think a 14/15 day LP is long?? Usually after I get my sore bb's it's usually about 2 weeks before AF arrives. I always read that was normal to have a 14-16 day LP?? hmmm ohwell. I know I don't have any cysts b/c I just had my yearly OB/GYN and she checked for that and there wasn't any. NOw you have me all concerned that something is wrong. :(

tlew12778

10-26-2005, 09:36 AM

Tonysweetie

10-26-2005, 09:43 AM

Tonysweetie Most of us are talking about eagleswings' 18 day LP last cycle. But, depending on how you interpret your chart, you may have had an 18 day LP. Before I would worry though I would chart a few more cycles. You don't seem to have LONG cycles which implies to me that you are o-ing at some point (unless you have a low endometrial threshhold which I doubt). If anything I would have wondered about an early MC, not a cyst.

Ohhh good, lol I was getting a bit worried. If I had an early MC then I guess that would make sense who knows? I could've had a an 18 LP fo rall I know. It does sorta look like I could've O'd on CD13 or 14 but it's kinda hard to tell b/c I didn't temp. quite right in the beginning (different times of the time) I didn't start temping. like I should until about after the first couple weeks. I know my cycles are usually anywhere between 30-35 days so I'm at 32 now so I know thats pretty normal for me :)But I usually don't get major fatigued, and sick to my stomach like I did this cycle so maybe an early MC? hmmmm

Clattercote

10-26-2005, 11:32 AM

Tonysweetie - Tempwise, your LP also looked like it was 18 days, which is why I was asking how you were temping and whether there might be something to account for the temp discrepancy vs the CM. Since you say you might not have been temping quite right at teh beginning of the cycle, I feel better about the temp/CM discrepancy now.

I was bringing up lengthy LPs as a more general topic since several people here have said they have long LPs. It could be caused by a very very early m/c, but you wouldn't know if there was an mc or not - it would just show up as a long LP.

But there are other things that would cause long LPs, too, so you can't assume that a long lp=m/c. It could be cysts - maybe some hormonal wonkiness - A longer LP (past 16 days) would lead me either to relook at my chart (perhaps the temp rise should be interpreted in a different way), take a pg test, or, if I've got a history of strange LPs, to look toward health issues (as in my case).

HTH.

Tonysweetie

10-26-2005, 12:19 PM

THanks Clatter, maybe I should make an appt. with my OB/GYN for some blood work just to be sure. I doubt it's a cyst since like I said that I Just had my yearly unless it just showed up within the past few weeks. I'll chart another one and see what happens. Maybe I'll stick to another TTA chart just to be sure. DH agrees that maybe we should TTA one more month before moving over to the seeing what happens. So I guess I'll be around another month. :D What sort of health issues could this be? I'm worried that maybe DH and I have infertility issues or something. I'm sorry I'm a major worry wort when it comes to my health, I get it from my Dad, lol.

tlew12778

10-26-2005, 12:39 PM

The other reason it likely is not a cyst is bc you were on BCP 3 months ago. the BCP reduces cysts. That's why the prescribe them for women with PCOS.

Clattercote

10-26-2005, 01:36 PM

I'm actually thinking there likely aren't any health issues here - my main concern is the temps, but like I said, that might be due to other things - It's totally up to you of course, but it might well be worth another chart, just to see what happens. From my own experience it's really hard to make any calls about cycles on the basis of one chart, especially if you're a first-time charter - but after two, there'd be more info. So I'd be inclined to wait for more data (another month's chart) before making an appt with a gyn. It's amazing what charting can do in terms of helping people spot problems - or not!

HisSpicy

10-26-2005, 04:42 PM

Tonysweetie

10-26-2005, 04:48 PM

Thanks ladies. I'll chart another month just to be sure :) I chanced my chart to CD1 today b/c AF defintinyl arrived full force earlier this afternoon. SO I'm CD1 today. Kinda boring I guess :) So just waiting to O again.

kissmary

10-26-2005, 05:29 PM

HisSpicy, I wouldn't worry about temping with the time change since you are post ovulation (and drinking a lot could affect your temp anyways). When I changed time zones for a vacation in August, that is how I changed temping times, though, and I didn't notice any difference.

tlew12778

10-27-2005, 01:56 AM

Daylight Savings Time :eek: :confused:
So, I just realized that I have to deal with this this weekend. What a wonderful thing for those of us new to charting. I'm wondering how all you ladies who have gone through the time change before, have dealt with it. Did you do what the TCOYF said, (ex. if you temp at 6AM, Friday temp at 6, Saturday 6:20, Sunday after setting clocks back 5:40, and Monday back to 6)? Does it make a huge difference? What happens if you just don't deal until monday? I am going to be pretty drunk both Friday and Saturday nights, and I typically don't even take my temp the morning after.
What do you normally do about time changes?
What should I do given I'll be drunk all weekend and am past ovulation? (And if I don't worry about it, will my monday temp look different?)
THANK YOU! If you're REALLY bored you can go back to the WC thread bc we had pages of discussion on this last year. Basically it boiled down to most people just temping at their normal time and it didn't really affect their charts. Since you are past O and plan on drinking up a storm I wouldn't bother temping unless you are close to AF and do not want suprises. Regadless, the alcohol will affect your temps more than the time change I think. You're monday temp will not look any different provided you do not drink Sunday night.

Clattercote

10-27-2005, 05:26 AM

Whenever I am temping across several time zones or there's a time change like this weekend, I just keep temping at the same time - there are often some differences for me, but the point is the pattern, not the individual temps - and I can always use the thumb rule or the shaving rule if I have to. If I'm post-O I often won't temp, especially if I've travelled more than one time zone away - it's just too aggravating.

HisSpicy

10-27-2005, 06:38 AM

Thank you all for your advice. I will just not worry about temping on the weekend, and with an 8AM Monday class, I will be sober Sunday night.
Thanks again!

AHammer

10-27-2005, 01:52 PM

I'm really hoping O is on the way. I'm getting scared that I'm going to have a huge long cycle this time around since it's my first Post-BCP. I've had EW off and on for several days now, and my temperature is slowly rising, but I know it needs to be a huge jump. Based on my chart, I'd guess I'm looking for a few temperatures over 98.2ish.

I also don't know if my clothing while sleeping is affecting my chart. I've gone from nothing on some nights to some nights where I wear a hooded sweatshirt and long pants! The weather's going through a big transition here in TX and I just can't figure out if it's affecting my chart!

Oh well, here's hoping I'll O soon :)

Amy

tlew12778

10-27-2005, 02:03 PM

Yes clothing will make a difference. As will an extra cover. Just not it in your notes. FWIW I had a perfect cycle right off BCP (actually short LP of 9 days but everything else was by the book). It was actually the only cycle I ever got EWCM like the photo in TCOYF. Also, you may not necessarily see a jump, you could have a slow rise.

Tonysweetie

10-27-2005, 04:16 PM

Hammer: My first cycle off BCP was like clockwork I got it at 33 days like I used to be my periods before BCP, then my 2nd cycle was like 49 days and my third was 32 days. Just give it time. I was only on BCP for 9/10 months though so who knows. You'll O eventually!!! Keeping fingers crossed that you O soon. Also I've noticed the nights I wear my PJ pants vs. shorts to bed my temp. is different or if we sleep w/the window opened if it's a nice night. :D

HisSpicy

10-28-2005, 06:57 AM

bijouparvin

10-28-2005, 07:05 AM

All right, so I'm back at the end of this same cycle with more questions. Reminder: I almost always O on CD13 or CD14 and then have a 14 day LP. We're talking pretty much all but one chart out of 12. So this time I didn't start temping until CD13 for a number of reasons, saw a temp jump on CD14 and figured a CD13 O. Then, my next three temps were low, followed by a string of high ones. So I followed your advice and figured, okay, CD17 O. But now, on what would be CD28, I'm cramping and at least spotting (my hunch is that within the hour it will full red AF). If my O was inded on CD17, that would make it a 10 day LP (when it's pretty much ALWAYS exactly 14 days).

If it weren't for those three low temps, I'd say this is a textbook 13/14 cycle for me. But that makes no sense based on temping rules, right?

Check it out:My Chart (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7edaa)

(you'll have to scroll down to the last cycle since I entered AF for today and it started a new one.)

P.S. You'll notice I don't track CM. My experience has been that I don't get EWCM and the rest all most falls under the category of "creamy" so it hasn't been especially helpful, although next cycle I'm going to give it another shot.

Clattercote

10-28-2005, 07:29 AM

Hisspicy - It doesn't always go up for everyone - I don't usually notice a change in temp after drinking alcohol the night before - even large quantities.

AHammer

10-28-2005, 07:46 AM

So this is interesting. Last night I decide to have a nightcap, couple of shots and off to bed I go. This morning my temp. was 97.4, after having been 97.6 the past 3 days. And I didn't change anything except adding the alcohol. The heat was still on, I slept in the same pjs, use the same amount of blankets. I thought it was supposed to go up? I'm not really worried, just a little confused. :confused:

I've had the same thing happen to me this past month. One night I drank a whole lot, and my temp wasn't significantly higher (I think it was lower, actually, but I don't remember). Strange!

Clattercote

10-28-2005, 08:47 AM

Bijouparvin - I wouldn't worry about the apparent 10 day LP here - you have a history of consistent LPs of a good length, and so that indicates a healthy cycle - (though if your next few cycles are also off, then you might want to check it out, because it would be quite a difference from your norm)

You may have been right that there was an O earlier than we were suggesting - and maybe you did actually have a 10 day LP. The temp sign isn't the most terribly accurate indicator of O by itself - precisely because there are so many things that can get in the way of a good temp reading, especially early in the morning :) (Holding mouth open, breathing through mouth, clothes one wore to bed, whether or not DH hogs the covers, time temp was taken, food/drink ingested, etc.)

Even though your LPs have been consistent, human bodies are still not calculated machines - picture perfect histories can become entirely unclear the next month. (As happened with me a couple months ago - after 12 cycles of charting, in which I pretty consistently Od on CD 17-18, all of a sudden I had a probable O on CD 9, and a very short 19 day cycle! I've posted the chart at FF if you're interested...)

And that's why it's good to use more conservative rules for intepreting temps if you're TTA - and not to rely too heavily on past cycles for predicting the current one - any drop in temp to below the coverline after a possible temp shift is cause for being more conservative- even if the shift was established 5-6 days ago. There's just no sustained temp shift here until CD 17 so that's why I recommended not assuming a temp shift earlier.

bijouparvin

10-28-2005, 02:42 PM

Clattercote - Thanks so much for the input. I guess I should just pull out TCOYF and double check this, but I thought that LP length only varies by a day or two. Is it unusual to have consistent 14-day LP and then all of a sudden lose 4 days? Was it something I ate? Should I be worried that my LP is going to shorten before we're TTC and if so, what can I do to avoid that? (aside from subtract a few years from my age :rolleyes: )

tlew12778

10-28-2005, 02:59 PM

Most LPs do only varie by a day or 2 but one aberration does not mean you are on a slippery slope to short LP land. Just watch your future cycles and if you want, you can take b6 and zinc to lengthen them.

HisSpicy

10-28-2005, 03:20 PM

Clattercote and AHammer thanks for the input. I have never taking my temperature after drinking, and have only read about it going up, so it just took me by surprise.

kemaji

10-28-2005, 06:49 PM

bijou - I've heard that taking a magnesium suppliment also helps lengthen the LP. I'm taking a zinc suppliment this cycle so it will be interesting to see how quickly that helps.

Angelfish

10-29-2005, 07:19 AM

What are the rules for when sex is allowed after ovulation?

Sevilla

10-29-2005, 07:38 AM

What are the rules for when sex is allowed after ovulation?
*pops back into thread and waves*

The post-o rules are on the first page, about halfway down :).

Tonysweetie

10-29-2005, 09:24 AM

CD4 nothing exciting going on my way just waiting for AF to end and O to begin. I bought some OPKs last night when DH and I went grocery shopping so I can confirm with my chart. Thought it'd be sorta fun :) So excited b/c tonight DH is taking me out to look a new ring settings for my e-ring. It's going to be my birthday present (bday on the 11th) Whoo Hoo!!! Anyways have a great weekend ladies. God Bless!!! :D

kemaji

10-29-2005, 09:36 AM

honeygirl

10-29-2005, 10:23 AM

Hello wise charting women. I am happy to say that it appears I O'ed this month! And, I'm pretty sure I'm nearing AF, in fact I'm a little surprised that I haven't started yet, maybe I will today.

Any guesses on how much longer till she comes?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

Tonysweetie

10-29-2005, 10:35 AM

Tonysweetie - Have fun looking at settings. :) So, are you TTA still, or Seeing What Happens or TTC? I had removed your from the roster but if you want to stick around for a bit I'll put you back. Just let me know...

ETA: Oh, and if it is your birthday, then your stats have changed, right? :)

Yes we decided to TTA until next fall. Sorry forgot to tell you :) Here are my new stats

Name: Leslie, 21
DH Name: Tony, 22
Marred; March 26, 2005
Off BCP: July 2005
Charting since: September 25, 2005
TTC: Late 2006

Tonysweetie

10-29-2005, 10:37 AM

honeygirl: I would say AF should arrive sometime between today and 14DPO. Usually your temp. will drop noticably the day or two before AF but mine didn't drop until the day AF arrived. I woke up had a temp. drop from 98.1 to 97.6 and went to the bathroom and AF was here. lol. It's almos tlike being on the pill again, I know when AF is coming, lol. Good Luck!!!

AHammer

10-29-2005, 08:49 PM

Hi ladies! FF is calling my O three days ago. Pretty cool, because that's what I thought on the paper chart that I keep, since I think that jump on CD23/24 is enough under TCOYF's rules for drawing a coverline?? I need to whip out the book and read up on it again, but for the most part I think I agree w/ FF.

I definitely haven't seen any EW in the past two days, so cool! DH and I are still going to be super careful for the rest of this cycle and into the next one, because we're both so not ready for kids, but hopefully after that I'll know my patterns enough to be a real TTA-by-charting person :)

amy

kemaji

10-30-2005, 05:27 AM

Updated to here.

ADSigMel

10-30-2005, 08:54 AM

Honeygirl
I'm not positive that FF has your O quite right. I think you might actually have an O on CD 35, which would coincide with your Peak Day. In that case, the higher temps on CD 31-33 would be a pre-shift spike, and you would get an LTL of 97.35 by averaging your pre-shift six. If that's right, as of today you're only at 6 DPO. Like Tonysweetie said, the "standard" LP is about 14 days, and many women experience a temp dip a day or two before AF's arrival. It looks from your previous charted cycle, however, that you might have a short LP, so you might still see AF within the next few days. HTH!

AHammer
I don't know anything about TCOYF, but the NFP rules go with FF's analysis, too. Yay for FF sometimes getting it right! :)

honeygirl

10-30-2005, 07:09 PM

Thanks ADSigMel - So will FF realize that I O'd later and change it? I think that I'll be starting AF soon, I have some of the symptoms. I'm pretty emotional (say a prayer for DH) and a little nauseous.

Clattercote

10-31-2005, 05:18 AM

Honeygirl - I'm with AdSigMel on this one - I'm not positive you O'd when FF said you did either. FF is often notoriously wrong with interpretations because it overemphasizes often slight temp shifts (that aren't the real shift) to the detriment of the CM. In your chart, you list that you had wet CM on CDs 34-5, which coincide with a temp dip. Technically speaking, and for TTA purposes, the wet CM is the most fertile, and the temp dips there could indicate that the previous days were a temp spike. Having said all that, though, it would be a bit unusual for a pre-O temp spike to last longer than 1-2 days (usually one day), so it may just be that your body was outputting the estrogen on those days when the temp dipped after a temp rise. For strict TTA rules, you couldn't count yourself safe for UDD till CD 38.

dana92504

10-31-2005, 06:01 AM

i think there's something wrong with my thermometer. uurrgh!:mad:

for 3 days straight it's said 97.5 and the past 3 97.4....but i just got the damn thing 2 months ago. how long does one/the battery last since i just started charting 2 months ago?

Clattercote

10-31-2005, 06:28 AM

Dana - The battery usually lasts about 3 years - test it during the day to see if it shoots up to more your "normal" temp.

honeygirl

10-31-2005, 08:49 AM

Honeygirl - For strict TTA rules, you couldn't count yourself safe for UDD till CD 38.

Thanks Clattercote. This is why I'm not comfortable doing UDD, seems like I need to figure all this out a little better before I take those risks. However, that said we did UDD last night, but I figured I was safe at this point either way (O on day 30 or 35).

Maybe it will be clearer next month? :)

lawgirl4

10-31-2005, 09:21 AM

dana - I had a similar thing occur during my first cycle. I thought maybe the thermometer was broken. I tested it out by taking my temp at various times during the day and they all came out at different temps, so I just figured that my body was pretty constant at the hour that I was temping. and sure enough, my temps tend to range from just 97.3 - 97.5 pre-ovulation.

dana92504

10-31-2005, 09:59 AM

Tonysweetie

10-31-2005, 11:02 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!! Nothing new my way. CD6 and AF is on her way out the door. YEA! I can't wait to try one of my OPK's out, lol. Never thought I'd ever get excited over stuff like that, haha. When should I take my first OPK? The first day I see EWCM or what? I've never used them before. Well I better un it's lunch time God Bless!!! :D

MrsKinnison

10-31-2005, 02:13 PM

Okay, I'm going to give the green tea thing a try this cycle so hopefully I have some cm. Exactly how much do I need to drink to help things along? Just a cup a day, or do I need lots of it? TIA!

kemaji

10-31-2005, 04:19 PM

I used to drink a cup or two a day and it noticably affected my CM. I have a fair amount to begin with, so it improved the quality as well as the quantity.

Tonysweetie

10-31-2005, 04:47 PM

Ew I hate green tea, is their an alternative? Like maybe the supplements?

AHammer

10-31-2005, 06:22 PM

what's the green tea supposed to do? increase CM??

abear

11-01-2005, 10:01 AM

I've got a quick question:

I've been having a ton of either watery or EWCM for over a week now. Does that strike anyone else as wierd? Did that ever happen to you?

Thanks!

Clattercote

11-01-2005, 11:05 AM

Abear- Yes, it happens - quantity of fertile CM depends on a lot of things, including what you're eating (yes, green tea and carrots can increase EWCM), what you're medicating yourself with (cough syrup is a biggie and can increase production - some meds decrease it) - but then your body may just have prolonged estrogen levels because it "couldn't" O last week (due to stress, illness, travel, etc.) and so you'd see more EWCM for longer. I often see prolonged CM when I'm having difficulty O-ing. There are times when prolonged EWCM indicates perhaps something more serious - it can be an indicator of low thyroid function, for example. If this is the first time you've noticed large quantities, and you have no other symptoms, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Tonysweetie

11-01-2005, 11:22 AM

When should I take my first OPK? When I see EWCM or what? I just ended AF yesterday

motray36

11-01-2005, 12:56 PM

Tonysweety - Based on the fact that your shortest chart (and only chart) was 31 days, you should start testing on CD14, and continue testing until you have a sustained temperature rise. Test ideally at 2 pm, but anytime between 12-8 pm is ok.

Tonysweetie

11-01-2005, 05:43 PM

Thanks! So I guess I can in 7 days gosh that's a long time, lol.

abear

11-01-2005, 06:31 PM

Thanks Clattercote! I figured it couldn't be that abnormal, but I'm just getting sick of it. I did have a VERY high stress week last week and figured, even if I was trying to O, it would push it back a bit. I'll keep an eye on it anyway!

Thanks!

tlew12778

11-02-2005, 07:08 AM

Green tea that you buy at the regular supermarket is disgusting IMO. The only green tea I will drink is loose leaf and better yet, make it sencha quality. I'm a total green tea snob! So for any of you that don't like green tea, make sure you try real green tea before making your final decision. You can buy some quality green tea here (http://greentealovers.com/index.htm)if you can't find it at a local store.

*******

So last cycle I had a 13 day LP. I was/still am shocked. In a year of charting I have never had an LP over 11 days. In fact, they were always 11 days on the dot. I wonder if the 2 months of BCP I was on shocked my body into new habits. Not like I am complaining about a 13 day LP... it'd be fab if it stayed that way from now on.

honeygirl

11-02-2005, 11:15 AM

Tonysweetie

11-02-2005, 12:22 PM

Okay, I hate to be annoying with all my questions. But.....I"m on my 6th day of spotting. Is this normal? I'm starting to get annoyed here as we ah hum...don't usually "BD" while I'm on my period/spot/whatever. So I have to ask again, is this normal?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

I usually spot for about 2 days before AF arrives but not 6. I see your last cycle your LP was only 8 days and your on 14 now that's quite a difference. Maybe your O date is wrong this cycle. I'm no expert but I would just stick it out a few days b/c sometimes I get werid spotting for a solid week then AF arrives but who knows? Keep us posted!!!

Tonysweetie

11-02-2005, 12:25 PM

CD8 and I have watery CM is this normal? AF just left town 2 days ago and I'm usually have dry or sticky but most defintly not watery??? Does this mean DH and I need to abstain? We DTD earlier today but used protection so no worries but why am I having watery so soon???

tlew12778

11-03-2005, 01:47 AM

Okay, I hate to be annoying with all my questions. But.....I"m on my 6th day of spotting. Is this normal? I'm starting to get annoyed here as we ah hum...don't usually "BD" while I'm on my period/spot/whatever. So I have to ask again, is this normal?

http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424 Have you looked up post-O spotting in TCOYF? I don't have my copy here with me so I can't look it up for you. Just FYI, when I first came off the BCP I spotted for 2 full weeks pre-O. I wouldn't really worry about it unless it becomes a pattern. Post-O spotting could imply luteal phase defect but you would also have other symptoms (most notably a very short LP).

WRT your last chart, I am not sure that your O is correct. I only say that bc there are so many open circles and the LP is very short. I also am not sure that your current O is correct... based on temps maybe yes, but the EWCM after CD30 makes me wonder.

jenji

11-03-2005, 01:48 PM

I just have to post and say that today is the first day of my second official TTA cycle!!!
I went off BCP in September and one 42-day cycle later I'm so excited to have seen my first thermal shift and EWCM and all those other silly things. I was beginning to think I would never see a shift, after what seemed like forever to me (a VERY regular gal pre-BCP and during). I'm excited about charting now!!

PG-rated

11-03-2005, 03:43 PM

Hi, ladies. I hope you don't mind me coming in to ask a couple of questions. I'd really like to get off BCP sometime in the next six months and switch to TTA, but DH is really concerned about the reliability and difficulty of this method. He's also worried about the effect on our sex life, since we had to take an NFP class as part of our pre-cana, and the instructor made it sound like you can't have sex for almost two weeks out of each cycle. As I'm doing more research, I'm starting to realize that her rules were way too conservative, since she used CM as the only indicator, no temping.

I know the best thing to do would be to read TCOYF or another book, but if I come home with a book DH will think I've made up my mind and will likely freak out. :rolleyes: So I was hoping to just get some first-hand stories to start. How hard was it to get started and maintain? How has it affected your sex life, if you don't mind sharing? For those of you who follow NFP, how many days per month do you usually have to abstain? For those of you who don't, what's your backup method?

Thanks so much, and I hope to be joining this thread in 2006!

nonewnames

11-03-2005, 04:16 PM

Ok so first off, I think FF called the wrong O date AGAIN. That being said, I think I O'd two days later than it's saying I did (that would put O on my peak day). I did have a big shift the day before I think I O'd (and the day after FF says I O'd) but it went right back down, and then I had a shift the next day (I think that's my O). ANYWAY, today I get an even higher temp and it almost looks triphasic! I know I need to wait and see what tomorrow brings and that triphasic doesn't = pregnant, but we did DTD the day I O'd (according to my records). It was protected but still...Anyway, anyone want to check it out and tell me your opinions?

On another note, this is the first cycle i've had where I've O'd even close to CD 14! Normally I'm at least CD 20...this is nice, I hope it stays this way!

AND, my stats have changed. I just turned 26!

MrsKinnison

11-03-2005, 09:47 PM

PG-rated I've just started my 11 cycle charting and it has been WONDERFUL for our sex life!!! Being hormone free can do wonders for your libido :) :) :) We use condoms as a back-up - we're not so good at the abstaining bit. There not as good, but there are some okay ones out there and its only for 8 or 9 days so its worth it! I was lucky because DH was supportive all along, but he has shown much more interested than I thought he would. I think he really enjoys being involved and knowing whats going on each cyle. DEFINATELY read TCOYF, and share some of it with your DH too so he can really understand what its all about so you can decide together if it is right for you. Everyone here is wonderful, so ask as many questions as you like. Good Luck and hopefully we'll be seeing a lot more of you!

tlew12778

11-04-2005, 01:22 AM

I know the best thing to do would be to read TCOYF or another book, but if I come home with a book DH will think I've made up my mind and will likely freak out. :rolleyes: So I was hoping to just get some first-hand stories to start. How hard was it to get started and maintain? How has it affected your sex life, if you don't mind sharing? For those of you who follow NFP, how many days per month do you usually have to abstain? For those of you who don't, what's your backup method? Buy the book just bc it has a wealth of information about the female reproductive system. The first few chapters are dedicated to just how it works, nothing about charting. Everyone should have this information on hand IMO. As for getting started, it was easy! I just bought a therm (didn't even have the book until 2 months into charting), took my last BCP, and started temping the day I knew AF would show. We used condoms pre-O for the first 3 months, but we would UDD 5DPO (just to be really safe, you know? The rule is 3DPO for TTA in general.) As for our sex life -- it's soooo much better now. The BCP killed my libido after about 4 years, so in the last 4 years we were down to maybe once a week? Plus, the BCP made sex really painful for me so that didn't help either. About 8 months into charting I stopped O'ing, was dxed with PCOS and was put no the BCP for 2 months. FH HATED it. He kept telling me to go back to charting and ditch the BCP. So obviously he likes it :). We dont' abstain, we use condoms as backup and I am now considering a diaphragm instead.

eagleswings

11-04-2005, 04:28 AM

Well, it looks as if I'm not PG after all (YAY!!!). I was beginning to think we had blown it with that weird temp rise pre-O, but I tested yesterday and it was negative and my temp went down considerably this morning. Now, we did take the quilt off our bed last night, so I'm not celebrating yet, but things are looking much more hopeful. I plan to make a drs. appt. on Monday, as I should know for sure by then whether or not I'm PG. If I'm not, this cycle was a crazy long LP as well! So who knows what's up... :rolleyes:

tlew12778

11-04-2005, 05:14 AM

eagleswings Phew! If I had to guess O for your chart I would say around CD early-80s (maybe 83) based on temps... that would give you a 14-15 day LP. CL at 97.9 so if it dips below that tomorrow morning you'd be in the clear with AF on its way.

nonewnames I really would not worry about it. Your BD was protected plus youre previous BD was 5 days before. I'm wondering if your CL should be higher. FF will base CL on less than 6 temps. If your CL was at 97.6 with a fallback rise, then your current temps wouldn't seem that high. But then again, I temp in celsius so I'm not that familiar with normal ranges for fahrenheit. Alternivately I would put O at CD16 since you had EWCM then.

Clattercote

11-04-2005, 05:49 AM

eagleswings - I hope the doc's appt goes well - are you going to ask about the long LPs? Because seriously, I think there's something else going on here that is very likely fixable. Best wishes!

PG-rated - DH and I are NFP users and we've been loving it - even the abstaining times. (No, seriously!) We use temp and CM; it sounds like your pre-cana people use either the Billings or the Creighton Method of NFP, which observes CM only. Billings is less precise than Creighton, so I'd probably say they're using Billings, which is why they have so many abstain days. Just a guess. (This is why I think that pre-Cana ought to have NFP presenters that talk about all the different methods - symptothermal, Marquette, Creighton, 2-days rule, eco. bfing, Billings, Standard Days, etc. and then people can hopefully find something that fits their lifestyle in all of those methods. but it's NOT fair to give people the impression that there's only one method based on CM :mad: )

Anyway, having said all that, I'm not quite the poster child for great cycles right now - I was just diagnosed with low progesterone and I've been having a lot of annovulatory and short cycles - which means DH and I have been abstaining a lot - 11-14 days per cycle. But pre-cycle problems, it would have been more like 7-8 days. (BTW, though, it was the fact that we were charting that made me realize there were problems and that got me on good treatment - otherwise, I would have had no clue... and I would have had all these other symptoms like cold hands and feet and low metabolism that would have been undiagnosable...)

We have found that abstinence has actually been good for us, for two main reasons - one is that we're way more, ummm, excited, to be with each other after that week or two - the other is that we're finding other ways to show affection during phase II, and we use the time to really focus on other parts of our relationship, which in turn makes UDD better. And we love UDD and the freedom of it! :o DH is really supportive, though - I don't think it would work too well if one person is resistant, because then NFP becomes a source of anger or an excuse.

So, ok, we're Catholic (well, I am, DH is not) and technically following church teaching on all this, but I really think we'd use NFP anyway - we're both more natural/granola/crunchy type people and I have a strong streak of feminism - I don't think that I should be the only one responsible for BCP - this way, both of us are responsible and it's a joint decision and adventure.

As for effectiveness of either NFP or FAM (NFP with cond-ms or other backup), I think it depends largely on your motivation and how well you learn the TTA rules for whatever method you're using. You can't just assume that you O on the same cycle day every cycle for instance; you can't just assume that only a little CM means that you're *probably* not fertile; and if you're really seriously TTA, you pretty much need to be more conservative with identifying temp patterns and whatnot. I must admit, the first couple months we were trying it out, I was freakin' out all the time that I might be pg - but I started trusting my own observations and my body more. And I realized that when it came right down to it, I didn't honestly trust the BCP more than I trusted my own observations. We've been TTA for 6 months, successfully (I've been charting for over a year though) - I have friends who TTAd for 51 months successfully, before TTC (and getting pg) in a month - since their DD was born 2.5 years ago, they have continued to successfully TTA (So yes, almost 7 years TTA so far!) There are lots of others who also fit this bill. But I do have friends for whom TTA has not worked - and in their case they didn't wait for the temp to rise.

This board is pretty great about helping people interpret charts - so it's a great place to come and ask questions if you're not sure - and so it's a great place for support in TTA. HTH! (Sorry so long!)

Clattercote

11-04-2005, 05:54 AM

nonewnames - I agree with tlew - I think you're fine since you were using backup - I might put the CL at 97.4, especially with the EWCM that you have on CDs 15-16 - It is too early to call a triphasic temp pattern - but in any case, you're certainly good to UDD now.

SQ2

11-04-2005, 06:12 AM

Hi, ladies! I will be joining you soon. :D We're going to start TTA in December. I am going off the pill when I finish this pack in about 3 weeks. I'm going to pick up a copy of TCOYF today to learn more. Quick question: Which site works best for TTA? I see most of you use Fertility Friend. I just signed up with them but when I was setting up my account I saw this message:

FertilityFriend.com cannot be used to avoid pregnancy. All our software, support tools, community and documents are geared towards achieving pregnancy.

Any thoughts? I know Ovusoft is another one. What is the benefit of using one over the others? Do you all have the software for either or can you get by with just using the free, online version?

Thanks!

tlew12778

11-04-2005, 06:53 AM

Clatter - How do you guys abstain for only 7-8 days? Were you just taking earliest O - 5 days? Or are you using last dry day rule? 7-8 days just seems so short to me. We backup for about 10 days and that's using the 7 day rule so UDD until CD10 for me, plus 3 days of high temps, for 10 days of backup (and this is assuming I O on CD17 which is not always the case obviously).

SQ2 - You cannot rely on either FF or OS to call O for you. OS will allow you to change to a TTA scheme but I still would not rely on it. Most of us only use these programs to put our charts online to share them therefore it makes no difference which one you use. I use FF bc I like the plain graphics. I find them easier to read. I also refuse to pay for OS since I am not relying on them to call O and I'm cheap... why should I pay for what I can get for free? ;) You will find a discussion of the pros and cons of both on page 1 of this thread.

SQ2

11-04-2005, 06:59 AM

tlew ~ Please excuse my ignorance (and maybe I should read TCOYF before posting here), but if neither tell when you O, how do you know when you are safe to DTD each month?

Clattercote

11-04-2005, 07:11 AM

tlew - We don't do it now; because of the one REALLY short cycle I had in June/July, we now have to consider TTA off limits from CD 3 till at least CD 17. But before I started having problems - using the 20/21 day rule we could UDD through CD 9 if there was no fertile CM, and then when there was a full thermal shift on CD 15, coinciding with dry up, we could potentially UDD the evening of CD 17 or 18. Of course, someimes I wouldn't O till CD 16 or later, and sometimes I wouldn't have as strong a temp shift or the CM would start earlier or not dry up so quickly, so the abstinence would stretch out to 8, 9, or 10 days. It depends on the rules you use and how conservative you want to be, of course. More stringent rules would have had us abstaining by CD 6, but in the case of a full temp rise and dry up, still safe to UDD by CD 17-18.

SQ2- It's not that FF and OS don't give you an approximation of when they think you O'd, its that they're both often inaccurate. Far better to learn the rules and interpret your charts yourself (with us to help as needed ;) ) - because FF especially tends to be unnuanced when interpreting temp rises. You're just simply a more accurate predictor than the computers are, since both programs overemphasise some things when they're looking at the patterns.

tlew12778

11-04-2005, 07:13 AM

No worries. Ask lots of questions. Basically you need to watch your temps and your CM. Some ppl also keep track of their cervical position. Pre-O you have low temps and post-O you have high temps. Pre-O you have sticky-creamy-wet-egg white CM, Post-O you should have stick-dry CM. Pre-O your cervix is hard-low, becoming soft-high at O, then becoming hard-low again post-O. Based on the combinations of these indicators, you can know when you are safe to DTD without protection. Essentially you create a window around your O in which you either abstain or use backup. In the beginning, you do not UDD beyond CD6 (actually, in the first couple months you don't UDD even then as you need to know that you don't O super early) then you can UDD after 3 high temps (as high temps signify that you have O'ed and the egg is long gone).

SQ2

11-04-2005, 07:18 AM

Thanks, that helps! So, what you were saying is that the charts won't predict EXACTLY when you will O but the temps and CM give you a rough idea. We are not planning to UDD at all and will probably use backup at all times. Right now I'm just excited to finally be going off the pill! :)

tlew12778

11-04-2005, 07:26 AM

Right. I should have clarified. The charts will predict an O but they are VERY OFTEN WRONG. Therefore you cannot rely on them.

kanga1622

11-04-2005, 08:22 AM

PG-rated - I was also freaked out after being presented the idea of NFP/FAM during pre-cana. It took me almost a year after that to research TCOYF and begin using it to TTA. We used backup all the time for the first 1.5 years because DH was nervous about UDD. Now that he knows a little more about what I'm doing and knows that I understand where we are at in my cycle, he lets me decide when to UDD and when we need backup. We use condoms as backup since they are cheap and one box can last us quite awhile. We are comfortable with the possibility of a condom breakage/slippage since that possibility isn't very high.

I am a late Oer (CD20+) so abstaining for us could be 2-3 weeks at a time because I have fertile CM most of the time so I can't use that as much of an indicator. If you are comfortable using a barrier method, charting is absolutely fabulous because you learn so much about yourself and you can use backup for the first 3-6 months until you are both comfortable that you understand the method and can interpret your signs to know when you are "safe." We are on chart 22 or 23 and have no thoughts to ever rely on hormal birth control again. I love the freedom that we have and the partnership that comes along with conciously making the decision TOGETHER every time we DTD whether we will TTA or TTC.

motray36

11-04-2005, 09:52 AM

Hola ladies....
PG-Rated - We use condoms, and I have a diaphragm that I'll use once in a while, but it tends to up my UTI's, so I try to avoid it :) It's just an option.

Clatter Just wanted to let you know that you rock...thanks for your wealth of information!

nonewnames

11-05-2005, 09:13 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks for the reassurance. I'm pretty positive I'm not triphasic as well. I know FF called my O date wrong and my CL should be quite a bit higher. I overslept today and took my temp an hour late and it was higher again, but I know it has a good reason (damn being out late!).

Tonysweetie

11-05-2005, 09:24 AM

Nothing exciting happening my way. CD11 and waiting to O. I'm going to take my first OPK tomorow just to see. I have 7 so it's not like I'll miss just 1, lol. I had a tad of a temp. rise this morning but nothing to make it think I'll be Oing this early. Ohwell have a great weekend Ladies!!!

lawgirl4

11-05-2005, 03:02 PM

hey all,

for some reason I haven't been getting notifications for this thread! weird. anyway... my cycle seems to be pretty much on track; looks like I am a CD 18-22 ovulator, for now at least. This cycle I've been trying to focus on secondary signs - skin breakouts, CM, ovulatory pain, etc...

Interestingly, when I overlay my charts it looks like my temps this month are a few tenths of a degree higher overall - I'm guessing that's due to sleeping with a warm & cozy down blanket instead of a sheet! aah, winter!

also, I think I might be one of those pre-o dip people... we'll see if it happens this month too.

hope everyone is doing well!

Tonysweetie

11-06-2005, 11:15 AM

CD12 and I took my first ever OPK and got 2 lines on it, they are almost the same shade of color. The test line is a tad darker I mean the slightest of the darkest. So I bet if I take another in a few days I'll see a +. I started getting water CM today so that's a good indication. Gosh so much I've learned from charting. Just love it :) Have a great Sunday ladies!!! God Bless!!!:D

tlew12778

11-06-2005, 12:48 PM

Tonysweetie Just so you know, a +OPK only indicates an LH surge which is necessary for O but does not guarantee O. The only way to know you O'ed for sure is with temps (or a transvaginal ultrasound and hormone tests but obviously those aren't practical).

Tonysweetie

11-06-2005, 01:08 PM

AHammer

11-06-2005, 03:10 PM

My body is great!!! I think I had a fairly clear O on my temps. Awesome. Then today I woke up and my temp was low, back into my post-O range. Just an hour or so AF arrived. Awesome, like clockwork! I'm happy to be through my first month of charting, and knowing everything looks okay!

amy

lege

11-07-2005, 06:52 AM

Hi all - nothing exciting going on here - I O'd last week (although Ovusoft & FF disagree when - I agree with Ovusoft). O was a couple days later this month than it's been recently, but with MIL living with us, I suppose the stress is no surprise :-)

eagleswings

11-07-2005, 07:26 AM

Hi ladies,

Well, AF arrived on Friday, so we're definitely in the clear. It's NOT clear when I Oed though, but whenever it was my LP was at least 14 days if not longer. I am planning on asking the dr. about my irregular cycles and long LPs, although I may wait a few more weeks to see if my body regulates a little more this cycle, as I have been going through lots of crazy changes the past two months. I also want to research PCOS and other conditions on my own a little bit, so that I can be knowledgable when I talk to the doc. But I'll definitely head in soon to see what's up and what can be done about it.

AHammer, congrats on having such a great, predictable cycle! I haven't had many of them, but they are really exciting when they happen! :D

boilermaker

11-07-2005, 12:34 PM

It's been awhile but I figured I needed to pop back in and see what was going on.

Amy, I'm glad your first month went as expected! I can't say the same for me.

With all my travel in Oct, I kind of gave up on charting. I forgot to pack it so I missed a few days with the first trip...then with the second, I misplaced my thermometer and had to get another one. But it was towards the end of my cycle, so I figured I would just write that one off and start again with a new cycle. But so far, I'm still waiting for AF. I'm on day 39 so who knows how long this will last til I can start over.

PG-rated

11-07-2005, 01:40 PM

Thanks so much to all of you who answered my questions. Clattercote, we were taught the Billings method, so good call. She presented it as so much easier and more convenient than any other method because there was no need to temp. Of course, now that I'm actually looking into it, I realize that there are totally legitimate reasons to temp that she just chose not to mention. She also told us that we would have to abstain during the entire length of my period, so imagine my surprise to come here and find the various rules for safe days at the beginning of your cycle!

tlew12778 - I thought I was the only one who had a libido drop-off after several years of BCP; I sort of assumed it had to be due to something else. I will definitely buy TCOYF at some point, but I need to wait a little bit, since we've agreed not to talk about this for a couple of months, and buying it now would just give DH unnecessary agita.

Reading through back pages of this thread has given me SO much information. I think I'll lurk around from time to time, in hopes that I can become a full-fledged member sometime next year. Thanks again!

tlew12778

11-08-2005, 01:02 AM

boilermaker - if you want, you could just temp now to see if you are getting regular post-O temps, then when it drops, you wouldn't have any AF surprises.

boilermaker

11-08-2005, 06:40 AM

Thanks Tiffany. I started temping again last week when I got my new thermometer, I was just hoping to get a fresh start so I could see a whole cycle KWIM? I'm still waiting for the drop.....

kemaji

11-08-2005, 06:48 AM

Well, I had another 10 day LP and AF this time is really heavy. I wish my cycles weren't so short, but at least this time I had a fairly strong temp shift. I started taking a zinc suppliment last cycle but I wasn't very consistent in remembering to take it so I'm not sure what effect (if any) it had on my cycle. I think I need to pull out my magnesium and add that back into my pill regimen.

Tonysweetie

11-08-2005, 02:52 PM

CD14 no O yet, still waiting... I predict in about 3-4 days possiably. I could be delayed this month I have a ton of excitment going on right now. I've recently just lost 7 lbs. (past couple weeks) so that could affect O and also my bday is On Friday and DH is planning a party for me so I'm super excited. So not expectin ga nice chart like last month. We shall see. Have a great week ladies!!!

Clattercote

11-09-2005, 05:58 AM

PG-rated - Sounds like the person who talked about Billings didn't quite put it out there right - Billings does allow for UDD during phase I, just not during AF. It is very nice to have the temp in combo with CM and it means we don't worry about AF so much. But you'll find that people who use Billings and people who use STM (symptothermal) like to insist that THEIR method is the best. I think that's funny - since I really think it depends on the person and her lifestyle for what NFP/FAM method will be best. Someone who doesn't like temping in the morning may well be comfortable checking CM only. Someone who travels a lot may like Marquette (use of an LH monitor) in conjunction with CM.

Just wanted to add for whoever cares: The beauty of Billings and other CM-only methods is that during very long cycles, like many of the people on this board have, you can UDD in between fertile patches of CM. So you can use STM but if it starts looking like you'll have a long cycle, or if you have a history of long cycles, you can use Billings rules for UDD.

Kemaji- Your cycles sound a bit like mine - maybe you have low progesterone like I do - I'm currently doing the cream thing, but maybe there are dietary things I could do.... Do the vitamins you mention help with that?

dana92504

11-09-2005, 10:08 AM

those practicing FAM - what do you use for your barrier protection? we use condoms currently but i'm thinking of getting a diaphragm - do ya'll know the pg rate w/diaphragm use?

happy hump day ;)

tlew12778

11-09-2005, 10:20 AM

those practicing FAM - what do you use for your barrier protection? we use condoms currently but i'm thinking of getting a diaphragm - do ya'll know the pg rate w/diaphragm use?

happy hump day ;)
We use condoms right now but FH just asked me if I would consider a diaphragm. I haven't really given it much thought bc when we first started using FAM he was totally against it since I have a really bad history of UTIs and YIs. Anyway I found this from the American Pregnancy Association:

How effective is a diaphragm?

The diaphragm has a failure rate of approximately 5% for correct and consistent use. Typical use, which is the average way diaphragms are used, has a failure rate of approximately 18 - 20%. This means that 18 to 20 people out of every 100 will become pregnant during the first year of use. (link (http://www.americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/diaphragm.html))

Vs. this for the male condom:

How effective is a male condom?

The typical use of male condoms, which is the average way most people use them, has a failure rate of 14-15%. This means that 14-15 people out of every 100 will become pregnant during the first year of use. Spermicidal agents increase the effectiveness to over 95% when used correctly and consistently. (link (http://www.americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/malecondom.html))

I think both failure rates are probably more the "realistic use" failure rates rather than "perfect use" failure rates as the numbers seem high.

tlew12778

11-09-2005, 10:55 AM

Kemaji- Your cycles sound a bit like mine - maybe you have low progesterone like I do - I'm currently doing the cream thing, but maybe there are dietary things I could do.... Do the vitamins you mention help with that?
I was just reading up on Fertility Blend (I just got mine in the mail) and I found this online:

As vitex has the effect of stimulating and normalizing pituitary gland functions, especially its progesterone function, vitex may be particularly useful in cases of low levels of progesterone during the luteal phase (the period between ovulation and the end of the menstrual cycle). So you might want to research vitex a bit.

dana92504

11-09-2005, 11:26 AM

ya know, i was just thinking. if you only have a 25% chance of getting pg when ALL the conditions are right, and you have a 14-18% chance of getting pg when using protection - what's the big difference?

but hmmm, looks to me like the condom isn't so much better so i may talk to the doc about getting a diaphragm since i don't have a prob with infections and whatnot.

thanks chica :-)

MrsKinnison

11-09-2005, 12:12 PM

dana92504 I used to use a diaphram, but it was kind of a PITA. Where I can keep condoms in the nightstand, with the diaphram I always had to get up, go to the bathroom, prepare it & insert it...not very romantic or spontaneous. Also, DH could feel it and it kind of weirded him out and could be a little uncomfortable for him at times. Lastly, you have to leave it in for a while after, so sometimes that means all day at work. Condoms are great, but for us they have been better.

tlew12778

11-09-2005, 01:15 PM

Yeah I was about to point out the leave it in factor. It seems that on this (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=6133&highlight=diaphragm)thread it was the biggest disadvantage to it.

abear

11-09-2005, 01:32 PM

According to FF I O'ed! However, this is only my second day of higher temps. and today's temp was not .2 above the previous 6. Why does FF say I O'd? It doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking I might have anyway, but need a few days to be sure, so I wouldn't UDD even though it says I'm in the clear. Just wondering why it works so wierd!

tlew12778

11-09-2005, 02:27 PM

abear If you get another high temp tomorrow I would say it's an O, especially since you are drying up. I don't know why FF set your CL so low though. I would think that something like 97.9 is more appropriate. Actually, looking at your temps again, I might bump O to CD29... the temp shift is clearer then even though the CM doesn't coincide.

abear

11-09-2005, 06:07 PM

tlew Thanks! I agree with you about the low CL and that my O day should be day 29. I don't understand why FF works the way it does, except, I guess it's trying to work with TTCers. Still, if i were TTC, I'd want to know I still had a few more possible days that cycle, rather than giving up.

I'm just hoping my temp stays up, because I'd really love to have a somewhat "normal" cycle. I was MAJORLY stressed up through last Tues. however, so I wouldn't be surprised if I had a patchy, drawn out cycle.

thanks for listening!

kemaji

11-10-2005, 05:35 AM

Clatter - I would tend to agree with you about my possibly having low progesterone. I've had my thyroid checked in the past and I know that isn't an issue. My mom is an acupuncturist and she makes her own line of herbs and she has been giving me stuff to help regulate hormones for a while. I'm just really bad at taking it. DH is compulsive about putting my herbs away and if they are not staring me in the face in the morning, I forget.

Anyway, about vitex (for hormone balance), that is one of the things that I should take (more) regularly, she gives me that. She also has me taking the zinc suppliment, a fish oil capsule, reishi (for the immune system) and something to support my menstrual cycle that I only take during AF. She wants me to take a bunch of other stuff too, but I have a hard enough time remembering those.

She has some information on vitex on her website here (http://www.benedictineherbs.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BHP&Product_Code=20633&Category_Code=PEEPS) that tells you a few of the uses.

dana92504 - We use condoms and even though DH grumbles about them, it works for us.

motray36

11-10-2005, 06:40 AM

Hi everyone-

dana92504 - I have a diaphragm, but it gets used less and less as time goes by. It is a nice option when you aren't being spontaneous...like if you want to "surprise" your hubby with condom-free, fertile time DTD :p.

Well, I've been much better about checking CM, but I was home in Philadelphia 2 weekends ago when I apparently O'd...and was unable to temp because my 2 year old niece woke me up eariler than my normal temp time Fri, Sat and Sun. So, I overrided FF with the latest possible O date, which would have been Monday.

Any thoughts on the accuracy of this? Thanks!

dana92504

11-10-2005, 06:47 AM

tlew12778

11-10-2005, 07:47 AM

chinadoll

11-10-2005, 08:15 AM

is anyone else not getting notifications anymore? I used to, and then they just stopped one day. annoying.

my cycle has been super-weird this month and it is making me crazy. I had some weird pinkish/brownish creamy-type CM for about 4 days last week -- according to TCOYF this can be considered ovulatory spotting (which I have never in my entire 26 years had before), but 4 days seems to be pushing it for that. I'm now on CD22 and no signs of ovulation, which is also very weird. I've always had cycles that are 28-30 days, and since I started charting almost a year ago, almost all of my O dates have been CD14-17. This is just bizarre. any thoughts?

chinadoll

11-10-2005, 08:21 AM

some thoughts on diaphragms -- I have one. It's okay. We either use that or condoms during fertile times, and DH and I aren't crazy about either method. Condoms are easier to put on if you are being spontaneous, but DH and I both think a lot of "feeling" is lost (and we've tried a bunch of different kinds). the diaphragm feels more like UDD, but it does take a minute to put it in before hand. I had a few UTIs at the beginning but that was when we were just married and DTD a bit more. I started taking cranberry pill supplements in April and haven't had an infection since then. Once it's in, I can't feel it and it doesn't bother me.

MrsKinnison

11-10-2005, 01:37 PM

So, I've been trying the Green Tea thing, and so far I'm not seeing a difference :( Does it take a while? Or am I maybe not drinking enough of it? Could it be the brand? Anyone who has any imput I would greatly appreciate it. When you look at my charts, its not that I don't monitor CM, its that I really don't seem to have any. 99% of the time, what I do have is only from internal, never external. On the plus side, my cycles are practically like clockwork and my charts super easy to interpret.

Clattercote

11-11-2005, 05:18 AM

MrsKinnison - I would try carrots - that has seemed to help for some people. I have also heard that cough syrup helps too, but I can't remember exactly when you would take it, etc. I mean, surely one wouldn't take it for the whole of a cycle. (Carrots, on the other hand, probably one a day?) Let me look it up (book's at home, I'm at work) and get back to you.

abear

11-11-2005, 06:00 AM

sorry to be annoying, but will you guys please look at my chart.

I had a really weak temp shift, but it's stayed up the past 4 days. Still, it's not an entire .2 above the previous 6 temps before it started. Can I still count it as Oing? I'm way confused!

Thanks!

lawgirl4

11-11-2005, 06:37 AM

abear - I think it's possible that you did indeed O - but I think you have to wait and see. remember that you are looking for an overall temp shift - a clear delineation of "low" temps and then "high" temps.

Clattercote

11-11-2005, 06:54 AM

abear - NOT annoying - please ask as many questions as you need to!

I think you are right on all counts - this is a weak temp shift, but there is a shift- and when you combine that with your obs. of CM I'd say you likely O'd - it would be much nicer to have a better shift because it would be more clear - but here's what I'd say: Depending on the STM method you use, set the CL at 97.9, or the LTL at 97.8 and the HTL at 98.2. You're safe for UDD yesterday evening by TCOYF rules and CD 32 by Rule B (modified for .3 temp rise) for Art of NFP (though if this were my cycle I'd wait an extra day just to be sure). If you want to be most conservative with rules, you can wait to UDD till the temp reaches 98.2, or .4 above the LTL. That might or might not come, depending on how your hormone levels are at the moment - if it were me, though, I'd probably wait to see if the temp rises to 98.2.

Usually, with a weak shift like this, it's good to have a history of other charts with weak shifts in order to know that this is your pattern. In your case we don't yet have that, (am I right about this?) - it looks to me like your body is still regulating out. Some women do have a history of charting with temps that rise only .3 degrees above the low temp level and that may be true for you as well, but we'll know after a few more cycles.

Quartercentury

11-11-2005, 07:10 AM

abear, I totally agree with Clattercote. Looks like a weak shift, and that you've already ovulated, especially given the dry-up. But if you're not used to seeing weak shifts like this, I would be extra cautious with UDD over the next week or so.

So, yes, this is me checking in from my probably-last-ever avoiding cycle. :D Although, avoiding hasn't been too hard these past few months, as FH has been in China while I'm in the UK. And when we had an unplanned reunion a couple of weeks ago, it was because he was in the hospital, so avoiding was pretty easy. It was probably the strangest trip I have ever taken, flying half way around the world on less than 48 hours notice and arriving in an exciting new city, only to hang out at the hospital. But FH is going to be fine, and it's looking like he'll be okay to spend time traveling (and TTCing) in South East Asia like we'd planned. Wheee!!!

abear

11-11-2005, 07:19 AM

Forgive me, but what do STM, LTL and HTL mean?

Thanks for the insight girls! I think you are all probably right, which means I was right too (yea!). I think I may wait a few more days for UDD though, just to be safe.

Clattercote you are right, this is only my second cycle post-BCP, and the first one was 75 days long, so I have NO basis for comparison. Given my weight, it's possible my hormone levels are slightly low, so that all makes sense!

THANK YOU!!!

motray36

11-11-2005, 07:42 AM

SMT = Sympto-Thermal Method (charting temps + cervical mucas)
LTL = Low Temperature Level (equal to the highest of the 6 temperatures prior to the temp shift)
HTL = High Temperature Level (this will depend on how conservative of a method you use)

AF came today :)

looch

11-11-2005, 09:42 AM

I have been on the pill since 1997, and I am ready to go off in January. What should I be reading? Should I talk to my gyno before I start charting? Help!

tlew12778

11-11-2005, 09:55 AM

You should pick up a copy of Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler if you don't already have one. You may also want The Art of Natural Family Planning. It really depends which method you want to follow in terms of avoiding. If you check out the first page of the thread, you will find many, many links for internet resources that explain charting. I actually charted for 2 months without ever having read TCOYF. As for telling the gyn, that is up to you... many of us have non-FAM friendly gyns, some of have have very FAM-supportive gyns. You may want to mention it but don't be surprised if you get a negative reaction. Anyway, WELCOME to charting! Feel free to ask the ladies here LOTS of questions as they are the best resource (IMNSHO ;))

looch

11-11-2005, 10:07 AM

Thanks! I am going to get a copy at the bookstore. So here go the questions...
How did your husbands/BFs feel about TTA with charting? I am sure my DH is going to freak out a little and won't want to even come near me! Did you use condoms at first?????

tlew12778

11-11-2005, 10:18 AM

Mine was skeptical at first but he really likes it now. While on the BCP I suffered from this really bad burning sensation everytime we UDDed, but that didn't develop until I had already been on the BCP for 4 years so the many drs I saw ruled out the BCP as the cause. I went through every test immaginable to ID the cause of the burning to no avail. Finally after 4 years I had enough and just ditched the BCP to see if that was the culprit. Sure enough, the burning went away and FH is much, much happier now (bc, well, who wants to have sex if it burns?). He did enjoy the UDD at any time aspect of the BCP, but when I was dx'ed with PCOS 8 months into charting and tried another 2 months of BCP, they caused so much misery (migraines, nausea, heartburn) that he wanted me to go back to charting, so here I am. Life sans-BCP is so much better.

You should definitely use condoms at first. Most of us still use them during fertile times anyway (some abstain and some use diaphragms).

Clattercote

11-11-2005, 11:02 AM

looch - My DH loves TTA with charting - he likes knowing what's going on with my body (e.g. if PMS is coming, he likes having chocolate in hand :D ) and we both love not using barriers. I was on BCP for a short time and hated the way it made me feel so I am really glad not to be using it: DH did not know me at the time but having heard about BCP effects on me, is also glad I don't use it. We are one of the couples here who abstain during the fertile phase - so that he's happy with TTA with charting despite the abstinence means a lot to me. To be sure, there are times during the fertile phase when we'd rather be UDDing, but it DOES make us look forward more to the time when we can UDD.

kissmary

11-11-2005, 05:23 PM

I've never been on BCP, so occasionally we would use condoms, but mostly let it to chance. My DH was happy when we started TTA by charting because he got to know what my body was doing and when the best times for UDD were. Like Clattercote, we abstain during the fertile time, too. So, my DH loves it and even read The Art of Natural Family Planning when I got it. :)

abear

11-12-2005, 08:04 AM

Looch My DH was pretty supportive of me wanting to go off BCP, even though this regular cycle thing is taking awhie. We've been using condoms, which can suck sometimes, but it's really nice to know you can have sex and have no risk of being pregnant.

Tonysweetie

11-13-2005, 02:02 AM

CD19 and still no O....hmmmm. Temp was different today due to drinking last night. It was my birthday so we all went to a club and I sorta over did it sooo not counting todays. Last night I O'd on CD17...I hope this isn't a long cycle. BLAH!

chinadoll

11-13-2005, 03:10 AM

Tonysweetie

11-13-2005, 10:02 AM

how can you tell if you have an anovulatory cycle? Is it only determined after the cycle is over?

This cycle has been really weird for me -- midcycle spotting, no signs of O, but now I'm starting to feel PMS-y. Sore boobs, cravings, moody, etc. Since I started charting last December, I've never had a cycle without an O, so I'm just wondering about this one.

ETA: if a cycle is anovulatory, does that change the UDD rules for the next cycle?

They can happen from time to time. Usually a cycle like that is a cycle w/o Oing and eventually AF comes. I had one the cycle before last and it was a total of like 49 or 50 days I can't remember but I never ovulated and AF arrived.

meagle

11-13-2005, 01:54 PM

chinadoll - Yes, you can only tell when you start bleeding but you can tell by your fertility signs (temp, CM, etc.) that you haven't ovulated. The rules for UDD in the next cycle change because haven't not yet ovulated, you can still have your LH surge and ovulate at any time.

This is my most wacky chart ever, from over the summer: http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?cycle=23&id=martese&tc=0&p= You will see that I started 'AF' on CD34. I was suspicious about whether or noted I had O'd since my CM hadn't dried up in the same pattern it usually does and my temps were kinda goofy and the apparent 'AF' arrived only 10 days after the possible O and my LP is usually 13-14 days long. If I had treated it as CD1 and followed the usual rules, I might have ended up knocked up, since, in fact, I O'd 7 days after my bleeding started. Hope that helps!

ETA: Ovusoft is a real PITA to override so that's why the coverline isn't quite right. 2 DPO is a fall-back.

Clattercote

11-14-2005, 08:55 AM

Chinadoll -

how can you tell if you have an anovulatory cycle? Is it only determined after the cycle is over?

ETA: if a cycle is anovulatory, does that change the UDD rules for the next cycle?

YES only after the cycle is over, and YES. I had a couple annov cycles this summer, and discovered to my chagrin that determining an annov cycle is done only after the cycle is over, and ALSO that it changes UDD rules. I'll put my annov cycle plus the one after it in my FF file.

In an annov cycle, temps will be typically all over the plaec (no discernible lows or highs) and CM will also be all over the place. AF, however, will show up around when you would normally O. However, because it was not clear that you O'd in the previous cycle, you can't use Phase I UDD rules - you have to use backup or abstain right through what you normally would call Phase I/infertile phase, as well as Phase II/fertile phase. Once you have a clear temp shift followed by dry up for the requisite days, then you are safe to UDD. So in my FF charts, we abstained from Day 9 of the bottom cycle, all the way up to Day 28 of the top cycle (:mad: :rolleyes: ) Argh. It was especially hard because we had just gotten married.

But - the reason is because when you have a cycle where you don't think you've Od, you have to assume that the bleeding you see at the time of a supposed period could also be breakthrough bleeding (BTB). If it is BTB, then you will likely O within a couple days of that "period" ending, because BTB typically shows up in the middle of a very long cycle. You will also likely see fertile CM toward the end of that bleeding episode. Your temps will not show a sustained shift, and will probably stay low. This will be followed by an O a 3-5 days after the "period" ends, along with a noticeable temp shift that stays high. UDD rules for a BTB case are the same as for a normal cycle in that you are safe to UDD after 3 full days of sustained shift, combined with 4 days of dry up (if you're using TCOYF rules). However, a BTB cycle will require fewer days of protection or abstinence, beacuse at the time of the bleeding, O is only a few days away. After a true annov cycle, however, O (as it was in my case) can be several weeks away.

So that's why you wouldn't know whether it's annov or not till after the cycle is truly over - because you have to discern what's going on with your body and whether it was a true AF.

BTB is where some women aren't careful enough with their TTA because they assume every bleeding episode is a period - that's exactly why it's so important to pay attention to both CM AND temp. Whenever you have bleeding but no clear shift, be very suspicious.

Clattercote

11-14-2005, 09:00 AM

Meagle has the perfect BTB chart! Cool!

chinadoll

11-14-2005, 01:09 PM

Thanks girls! I figured that we would have to use protection until an O appears again, whenever that may be. DH has been pressuring me to UDD because it is so late in my cycle that he is sure I "must have O'd by NOW". I'll keep telling him that we can't DTD unless we're protected.

Do you know if annov. cycles are generally longer than normal? It seems like a lot of the example charts I've seen have been 35/40/50 days or more. My cycles are almost always 28-30 days, so I guess we'll see what happens.

Clattercote

11-14-2005, 02:04 PM

Chinadoll - I would imagine that annov. length varies - I've had two in the last six months, and one was my normal length while the other was quite short. It was the cycles immediately after the annov ones that were longer than my normal length.

abear

11-14-2005, 04:39 PM

BAH! I had EWCM today! Why? Has this happened to anyone else post-O? There wasn't a lot, but still it was EW!

Thoughts?

meagle

11-14-2005, 07:13 PM

Meagle has the perfect BTB chart! Cool!

LOL! I don't think anyone has ever referred to any of my charts as 'perfect' before! :rolleyes:

chinadoll - My sense would be that anovulatory cycles would be a bit longer, maybe??? My BTB episode occurred on CD34 and that was longer than many of the cycles I've had this year. Seemed that the lining just couldn't hang on anymore. You'll also notice on my chart that I had tons of EWCM for days and my temps were all jumpy, also signs of an anovulatory cycle.

BAH! I had EWCM today! Why? Has this happened to anyone else post-O? There wasn't a lot, but still it was EW!

Thoughts?

EWCM post-O has happened to me before... There are a couple of possible reasons:
1) A surge in estrogen - This happened in some early charts but now that I am further away from my last BCP, I tend to get creamy rather than EWCM during my LP. It usually happens when I'm more than 8 DPO and usually for just a day or two.
2) Pre-menstrual 'shedding' - As the lining in your uterus breaks down, there may be some EWCM-looking discharge. It does not signal fertility.
3) You called O wrong and are still fertile.
4) It's leftovers from DTD.

My guess is that is is either 1, 2, or 4 since you definitely have a thermal shift and a dry up. If you're nervous about it, just use a barrier. That's what I always do when my fertility signs make me a bit anxious....

Clattercote

11-15-2005, 05:19 AM

abear- I get EWCM 1-2 days before AF comes. If it's right at the end of my LP, I don't worry about it.

tashaw6

11-15-2005, 05:24 AM

Is it ok if I join now (after a gazillion posts have been posted already...) I just can't start at page 1 of 96

I am not charting yet, still on BCP, but DH has suggested I go off those as they can't be good for me! Which I agree...but I don't want to fall pregnant right now so need to Chart to avoid! :)

tashaw6

11-15-2005, 05:36 AM

screen name: tashaw6
Real name: Natasha (27)
DH's name: Neil (26)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 25th September 2004
Started charting (date, if known): TBD
TTC: Unknown (but eventually)

boilermaker

11-15-2005, 06:52 AM

Man, the things I learn in here. That chart Meagle posted would have driven me insane and had me totally confused!!! How you ladies figure it out, I don't know. I'm just excited to start tracking my CM this cycle. :)

Welcome tashaw6. I just jumped into the middle of the thread, so I think it's the normal thing to do.

tlew12778

11-15-2005, 07:01 AM

Hi Tasha! Welcome to the club. We normally start new threads around every 1000 posts so there is no way any of us would expect you to read all the old ones :).

Quartercentury

11-15-2005, 08:49 AM

Any ideas what's up with my chart? This is my 26th(!!!) cycle charting, and I have never been this confused. I feel like I ovulated already, with dry up and vaguely sore breasts, but the temps just aren't there. Ideas?

Tonysweetie

11-15-2005, 11:52 AM

Finally O'd! CD18 and last month it was CD17 so hopefully it'll stay on this schedule. So waiting for AF around the 26/27th ish...DH and I followed the UDD and PDD this time! So no scares for us this month. Thank Goodness!!!! Have a great day ladies! :D

tlew12778

11-15-2005, 01:14 PM

Tonysweetie If you want to play it really safe, I would wait another couple days to UDD just to see what your temps are bc I am not entirely sure I agree with your chart interpretation. Temp wise it's not a strong O, plus your say your CP was high soft open AFTER FF's O. I'd be looking for temps over the 97.6-96.7 range to confirm O.

Clattercote

11-15-2005, 01:17 PM

Tonysweetie - I think you have O'd, but on/around CD 19 - I think FF is wrong to call O on CD 18 because you still have wet CM after that day. FF is overinterpreting the supposed temp shift. You might have O'd on CD 19 or so, but I think you still need to wait for a few more high temps. It would be possible to put the coverline at 97.6 (using the rule of thumb on CD 14), but even so, the temp on CD 20 dips sharply below any coverline I'd use, so if I were being carefully TTA, I'd wait for two more consecutive temps above 97.6.

Quartercentury - It is a difficult chart - off hand I'd say your body wanted to O, and perhaps even approached the hormonal threshold of Oing, but didn't actually do so, which is why the temps have dipped back down. Any time you have more than one low temp in a row even if CM has dried up, and even if there was an apparent temp shift, you have to be careful and use protection/abstain. I would think there's an O coming up, and you may see fertile CM coming up as well. The only other thing I can think is that if time zones or sleeping conditions have drastically changed, that might be something. Otherwise, I'd say it's a "wait and see" situation.

Welcome, tashaw6 - It's always great to see new people on the board and get your input too. This board has been really helpful for me since I started charting in August 04, and I hope it is for you as well.

dana92504

11-15-2005, 01:46 PM

tonysweetie - i'm also not sure if ff is correct about your O or if you've even O'd. i'd PDD for the next few days just to be safe

tashaw - welcome! i think a lot of people join midway as they make the decision to chart. i just started a few months ago and i love it and having all the wonderful chicas here to answer my many questions :D ....which btw:

can anyone tell from my chart if ff is predicting my O correctly? i can't tell if it was on cd13 (which seems early) or a few days after right before i had that huge temp spike :confused:

Clattercote

11-15-2005, 02:05 PM

Dana - I don't think FF is predicting rightly for your chart either - I mean, you have all that fertile CM after FF suggests you've O'd. I would say, instead, that the temp shift on CD 20 is a stronger predictor of O and that you probably Od around CD 19-20. I'd set the CL at 97.8 or the LTL at 97.7 and the HTL at 98.1. Given dry up and if temp stays above CL or at the HTL tomorrow, I'd say you're good to UDD tomorrow evening.

motray36

11-15-2005, 02:09 PM

tashaw - welcome!

I feel like we've had the most confusing charts here recently!

Quartercentury - I agree with Clattercote about the waiting and seeing - did anything out of the ordinary happen that your temps would drop back down? Stress? Lack of sleep?

dana92504

11-15-2005, 02:41 PM

aaah now what's going on?! i'm getting EW CM?? guess it's PDD for awhile longer

Harmony96

11-15-2005, 03:39 PM

Man, somehow in getting a new computer and doing other things, I lost my subscription to this board. But I'm back. :)

First question... I've been off the pill for over 3 months now. So WHEN exactly is my libido supposed to come back? Because it hasn't. I am sad. :( Only good side is that it's easy to avoid right now since I don't want to do it. :rolleyes: I mean seriously... the way I feel right now I could go 6 months or more and not miss it. (Course the fact that I've never had the "other big O" (not ovulation) could have something to do with it too. I dunno).

Anyway. Slightly off topic... I am loving my Diva Cup. Got it trimmed a smidgen more for this past period and now I can't even feel it at all. I just wish I could tell my mom and sibs about it without them looking at me like I've grown a third arm.

Cycle news... I'm on about CD4 of my 3rd post-pill cycle. Cycle 1 was 41 days w/ O on day 34. Cycle 2 was 53 days with O on CD 41. These long cycles are frustrating... but without charting they would have been even more frustrating b/c I would have been out buying oodles of pregnancy tests every week that I was "late". If the long cycle trend continues then I could be in my last avoiding cycle also. If they get to be a bit more normal in length though then I'll probably have 2-3 to avoid still.

So anyone have any advice on the no libido thing? :P

Andrea

Janey

11-15-2005, 06:10 PM

Consider me the latest Charting Newbie. :)

Real name: MrsHill (32)
DH: B (41)
Occupation: SAHW
Married: 9/24/05
Started charting: 11/2005
TTC: June-ish 2006

I removed my last Nuvaring just about a month ago, so I could get used to my body's cycles before we TTC. I was diagnosed with PCOS in 2003 and dropped 100 lbs. to try to correct the problem. I don't know if I am ovulating or not, but before Nuvaring, my cycles were at least regular which is a good sign. However, I'm still more than a little concerned that my body isn't doing what it's supposed to.

About three weeks ago, I had an OBGYN appointment and I asked her about non-hormonal types of birth control. She suggested I buy/read TCOYF. I read it all in one day. I had a big long talk with B about it (gave him the nutshell version of the book), and we decided to give it a try. Originally, I thought charting was a little "Type A" for me, but after reading the book and talking with B, I've decided it's not Type A at all... it's very natural and organic, and I like that. I decided to start temping on CD1 of this cycle. Due to some major crabbiness yesterday, I think CD1 will be tomorrow or the next day. I'm not sure how Charting will work for me since I don't always sleep through the night, but I'm going to try it out.

There you have it. I look forward to learning from all of you. :)

kemaji

11-15-2005, 06:32 PM

Welcome to tashaw6 and mrshill! I have learned an awful lot about my body since I started charting and sometimes I still feel like I don't know anything. I feel so much more in control though, and having a group like this has been a godsend.

QC ~ I agree with the previous posters, that it looks like your body was ready to O and didn't. Considering you had an unexpected trip this cycle, the stress and travel could explain the strangeness.

Harmony96 ~ My libido came back within the first week or so, so I'm not sure why yours hasn't. With regards to never having had the 'other' O, have you tried supplimenting your sex with toys? I used to have a lot of difficulty O-ing until DH and I finally started using a vibrator while DTD. He was a little self conscious at first and was worried that he wasn't doing a good enough job until I explained to him that a very large percentage of women don't O during intercourse at all...it wasn't him.

kemaji

11-15-2005, 06:42 PM

Updated to here.

bijouparvin

11-15-2005, 07:06 PM

So, I temped at my normal time this AM but I didn't wait for the old temp to clear before I put it in my mouth (you know how it retains the last temp for a few seconds?). When it beeped to say it was "done", the temp was a few tenths of a degree lower than I had expected (not that you can ever expect anything). Just to be sure, I put it right back in my mouth (after waiting for the last temp to clear) and it came up four tenths higher. Which one is right? Either? Neither?

???

Harmony96

11-15-2005, 08:16 PM

kemaji, I've tried a vibrator in the past, but I found the noise of it distracting. So I dunno. Maybe I'm just built wrong...

Andrea

tlew12778

11-16-2005, 01:26 AM

Harmony96 My libido came back immediately after going off the BCP. I'd say within a couple of weeks. The last BCP I came off (2 month break from charting for PCOS) it took more like a month. This was a higher dose pill.

As for the other O... if you aren't comfortable with toys, how about some adult entertainment? It doesn't have to be hardcore or anything, but it might loosen you two up enough (even if it's jsut laughing at the horrible acting!) to relax and enjoy yourselves more.

MrsHill As you can tell from my last post I have PCOS as well. You may notice that you go back to ovulating immediately for a while. Hormonal birth control supposedly jump starts your system into ovulating until it remembers you have PCOS. I took a 2 month break from charting when my one long chart ended in a PCOS dx. I couldn't tolerate the BCP though (tried 2 types) so I went back to charting with my drs approval. I o'ed last month (first month off BCP) and I am currently taking Fertility Friend to see if that helps maintain a regular O (hard to tell though since I o'ed for 8 months straight right off the original BCP I was on for 8 years).

tashaw6

11-16-2005, 02:13 AM

Thanks guys for all the welcomes! I must say I have already learnt a lot! I am going to stay tuned so that I can learn so that by the time I start charting then I will be able to quote the abbreviations like they are my normal language! lol!

chinadoll

11-16-2005, 03:39 AM

I'm not sure how Charting will work for me since I don't always sleep through the night, but I'm going to try it out.

I rarely, if ever, sleep through the night. Normally I'm up at least 2 or 3 times -- and charting has still worked for me. It's a learning process!

dana92504

11-16-2005, 05:11 AM

mrshill - welcome! :D.....oh, and the whole sleeping through the night - i usually wake up 2-3 times and often just an hour or so before i take my temp. i guess since it's 'normal' for my body, it doesn't affect my charting/temp. so i think you'll be fine! and if it does seem screwy, maybe you could start setting your alarm for 1am or something (where you've been asleep for at least 3 hrs but before you usually have a middle of the night wake up) to combat waking up in the middle of the night? but i think you'll be fine

harmony - i had never O'd until my DH. he has this crazy move so i guess that's it; maybe ya'll could try new positions?? also, foreplay doesn't do it for me at all so i'm totally backwards from most women :rolleyes:. but i totally feel your pain! and hey, at least it's fun trying to O ;)

bijouparvin

11-16-2005, 05:36 AM

Clattercote

11-16-2005, 05:37 AM

Harmony96 - Maybe get a check up? Could be there's something else going on... there are many causes for loss of libido.

MrsHill- Welcome!

Bijouparvin - Does it truly make a difference in interpreting your chart, which one you use? I mean, if you're past O and well after a temp shift then a temp dip won't matter if it's only one day. If you're before O it especially won't matter that you have a lower one. If you're right around O, that's going to be the problem - given the way you've described the situation, I'd probably go with the second temp since you took it right away again; but normally I'd go with whatever temp gives the most conservative chart reading just to be on the safe side.

bijouparvin

11-16-2005, 05:41 AM

Clattercote - Chart-wise, it doesn't make a huge difference for where I am now (about 6DPO) but it made me wonder if that would affect accuracy in general. For me, a four tenths difference before O could be a big difference. I'm just trying to figure out the mechanics of the BBT, I guess. Should I always be sure to wait the few seconds until the old temp clears for best accuracy?

Clattercote

11-16-2005, 05:47 AM

bijouparvin - Yes, it's good to wait for the thermom. to clear before taking the next temp to get the most accurate temp. Think of it as sort of like if you were using a mercury BBT - you'd have to shake it down to get the right starting point before taking the temp - similar principle here (though not the same mechanics). By the same token, the most accurate temp means keeping even digital thermometers away from direct heat sources or cold windows. That, too, can affect temps in both styles of thermometer.

tlew12778

11-16-2005, 05:49 AM

There's so much action around here, I think my question got lost in the scuffle but I'd really love some input from other veteran charters (clattercote? kemaji?) if possible.

Thanks, gals!
I never clear out my old temp before sticking the therm in my mouth. It's fine. I would go with the first temp.

ETA: A digital therm does not work the same way as a mercury therm obviously. The digital (at least mine) will keep taking your temp until it gets a constant temp for say 5 seconds. It can go up and down, while a mercury therm cannot.

Quartercentury

11-16-2005, 06:59 AM

Quartercentury - I would think there's an O coming up, and you may see fertile CM coming up as well...
You may be right! There was a bit of EW yesterday, even though my cervix is still low and firm. Like kemaji said, this cycle has been way stressful - FH in the hospital and last minute travel to Hong Kong. The weird thing about my temps is that they are high enough to be typical post-o temps for me, but they're not really higher than each other, IYKWIM. No sex of late, so no need to stress, just trying to figure out what's going on!

bijouparvin, I would go with the first temp. I never clear mine first - it just resets itself to like 95.0 and counts up from there every time you turn it on.

motray36

11-16-2005, 09:35 AM

I am going to stay tuned so that I can learn so that by the time I start charting then I will be able to quote the abbreviations like they are my normal language! lol!

I think my hubby thinks I'm crazy when I refer to my "LP" or "CM" (because God forbid I use the work mucus :eek: ) like its normal to talk like that.

bijouparvin - I never clear. I'd go with the first one, but make a note in case it is around O time and you need to re-evaluate!

Well, I have officially added all of my 12 charts onto FF, and its very convicting since I realized I've been doing it half-ass out of pure laziness.

I have an LP question....in the past 13 months off BCP, my cycles have ranged from 32-45 days. The LP's in these cycles have been (in order):
6, 10, 9, 11, 15, annov or inconclusive, annov or inconclusive, 16, annov or inconclusive, 9, and 17 days.

Any ideas as to why the inconsistancy and what I can do about it? Bloodwork always comes back normal, and I don't have a FAM friendly doc.

sdauer21

11-16-2005, 10:09 AM

I hope its ok to just jump in...I've been charting half-assed this cycle, but I really want to get more serious about it, and think this will be a good resource! :) I had my second daughter in August, and am nursing her, almost exclusively, still. I was on the mini-pill for 2 months, but went off that this cycle and have noticed a huge change in my milk supply, so I think I'm going to stay off the pill for a while. I charted to get pregnant with her, and really enjoyed it, so I'm looking forward to getting back into the swing of things. Right now, I'm running in to 2 problems - remembering to temp in the morning :rolleyes: , and figuring out if my cycle is going to get back to normal, since I am still breastfeeding. Normally, I O right around CD 14, which is today, and there's no O in sight. I'm wondering if AF is going to take a break for a while, now.

Anyway - here are my stats. I'm looking forward to learning a lot from all of you! :D

sdauer21 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6adf9)
sdauer21 (spedtchr on LJ)
Real name: Sonya (32)
DH's: Will (31)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 31, 2002
DD's: Tallia (1/14/03), Abigail (7/26/05)
Started charting: November 2005 (charted from Aug - Nov. '04, too)
TTC: Earliest would be August '06, if I can talk DH into a third!

Janey

11-16-2005, 10:33 AM

tlew12778, I had no idea that birth control jump starts your system! It will be interesting to see if I O after a few months. I was 246.5 before I started losing weight. Somewhere around 175 lbs, I started to get semi-regular periods (27-35 days) again. About 3 months later, I hit 160 lbs., I had massive, massive pains one month and used an OPK to see if that's what was going on, and I got a positive. I hadn't used BCP for about 9 months at that point. I haven't had pains like that since, so I'm thinking the pain was just due to ovulating for the first time in a really long time? Who knows, but I think this is going to be an interesting journey.

Chinadoll & dana92504, it is good to know that I'm not the only one who wakes up multiple times during the night. :) Do you just pick a time (say 6:00 AM) every day that you temp, regardless of when you last got out of bed?

Thank you for the welcome, Clattercote & kemaji!

dana92504

11-16-2005, 01:46 PM

mrshill - yup, i wake up at 5am everday and waking up (even at 4am) and then going back to sleep has no effect on my temps....BUT if it does affect your temps, i'd say to set your alarm for the middle of the night before you usually get up and after you've had 3 hrs of sleep.

like if it affected me, i'd probably start temping at 1am b/c i'm usually asleep at the latest 10pm and i usually start waking up/getting restless around 2ish...

Clattercote

11-16-2005, 02:02 PM

I think my hubby thinks I'm crazy when I refer to my "LP" or "CM" (because God forbid I use the work mucus :eek: ) like its normal to talk like that.

LOL! My DH refers to AF as "AF" because he hears me talk about it all the time - it cracks me up.

Motray, I don't know what to say about the LPs except that I've had similar problems - I have a range from 4 to 13 day LPs over the past year and a half. The LP length is one of the reasons my doc thought I should use progesterone supplements, but there were a lot of other issues as well (like annov cycles and short cycles).

Temps - That is so interesting - Dh has always waited for the therm. to clear before giving it to me - I had no idea that it wasn't necessary. But this is part of DH's type a personality ;)

sdauer - Welcome! Please jump in! If you're still mostly bfing, you may not see AF or O for a while yet. However, because you were on the minipill and because it sounds like your daughter is eating formula/solids/etc., (both of which may hasten the return of cycles), I'd keep an eye out, especially for changes in CM - CM often shows up before temps regulate, indicating return of cycles. In terms of temp, you may not see much of a pattern for several months, especially while bfing. Based on some of the experiences friends have had while bfing, be really conservative about interpreting CM.

sdauer21

11-16-2005, 02:16 PM

sdauer - I'd keep an eye out, especially for changes in CM - CM often shows up before temps regulate, indicating return of cycles. In terms of temp, you may not see much of a pattern for several months, especially while bfing. Based on some of the experiences friends have had while bfing, be really conservative about interpreting CM.

Thank you! This is good to know. My temps have been weird, but my CM has been all but non-existant. When I charted "creamy", that was probably pushing it... and when I charted before, I always had very definate EWCM right before O-ing. Of course, DH seems to have all but lost his libido these days (the other night was only our second time DTD since DD was born in July!), so I think abstinance will keep us safe, too! :rolleyes:

Clattercote

11-16-2005, 02:23 PM

sdauer - I forgot to say, too, that fertile CM might be different for you after pg, so that's another reason to be especially careful about CM for now. (you may even want to do internal checks if you weren't before). But if you do start getting CM and it starts looking teh same day after day for weeks, you can probably assume it is your BIP (basic infertile pattern), for now. Before the first AF shows up, and in the first 12 mo. of bfing, the chances of Oing are between 1-6 percent (I've seen different stats).

Once you get your first pp AF, then you definitely have to start temping/checking CM - but there again, the temps may not have a steady pattern.

tlew12778

11-17-2005, 05:50 AM

We're 10 posts away from 1000 posts!

Here are my updated stats for the new thread:
Real name: Tiffany (27)
FH's name: Carlo (31)
Occupation: Financial Analyst (me), MD (him)
Married (date of or date planned): April 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): October 2004
TTC: 2007?

I've also charted for over a year now.

angelraven

11-17-2005, 06:40 AM

Hi everyone. It’s been so long since I’ve been in this thread. Now I’m here because I need some help.

The few cycles have been ok. They were an average of 43 days long, with ovulation occurring around day 35. The first day of this cycle was October 16th. I have been extremely bad at charting this cycle, due to the stress of starting a new job Nov 1st and just being lazy. October 27-30, DH and I went on a mini-vacation for a few days and we did DTD unprotected. However, given past history I wasn’t concerned.

Throughout this whole cycle, I have noticed a lack of CM of any kind. There was one day during our vacation where there was a small amount of watery CM. Since then, not much has happened.

During the last few days, I’ve been having some pains on my left side, near my ovary. I’ve also been nauseated for the last few days. I’m just trying to figure out what my next step should be. The last couple of days, temps have been 98.0-98.3 which is on the high side for me, but there’s not really any CM, sticky at best. Could it just be my body trying to O? Do you all think this warrants a trip to the doctor?

kemaji

11-17-2005, 08:18 AM

Welcome sdauer!

angelraven -- I'm seriously sleep deprived today, so I'm having trouble visualizing what your chart looks like, but if you're concerned about being PG, the first thing I would do is take an HPT.

Correct me if I'm wrong though, you are right around where you would normally O in a cycle, correct? Do you have a typical CM pattern during your cycles? How much EW do you normally get before O? It's hard to say for sure since you haven't been temping consistently, but did you temp enough to see a temp shift/when you had a temp shift in your cycle?

***

I can't believe we're practically to 1000 posts, this thread has been hopping. If anyone wants to update their stats at this point, just post here in red and I will update everyone when I create a new thread. Also, if you want to add an online chart to your stats, feel free to post that as well.

kemaji

11-17-2005, 08:30 AM

Oh, and updated to here.

tlew12778

11-17-2005, 08:33 AM

They were an average of 43 days long, with ovulation occurring around day 35. The first day of this cycle was October 16th. I have been extremely bad at charting this cycle, due to the stress of starting a new job Nov 1st and just being lazy. October 27-30, DH and I went on a mini-vacation for a few days and we did DTD unprotected. However, given past history I wasn’t concerned. I would be concerned about the very short LPs. Since you said this is a pattern, I would wonder about Luteal Phase Defect. With an 8 day LP you would not be able to get pregnant bc there is not enough time for implantation.

According to your past cycles, you should be ovulating around now correct? I would wait to test for another 2 weeks (until you get beyond the normal 43 days at least). If you O now, that would put you at ~14DPO so you'd get good results then. But more than likely AF will show up before then since your LPs are so short.

angelraven

11-17-2005, 09:37 AM

Kemaji:

Do you have a typical CM pattern during your cycles? How much EW do you normally get before O? It's hard to say for sure since you haven't been temping consistently, but did you temp enough to see a temp shift/when you had a temp shift in your cycle?

I am normally like clockwork when it comes to CM. I normally have lots of EWCM the day before and the day of O. I have only begun temping again the last couple of weeks. I’m so mad at myself for not being consistent because now I have no idea what’s going on and it’s driving me batty. Normal temps for me are between 97.1-97.4 but I’ve been running from 98.0-98.3 the last couple of weeks with no real CM.

I guess it’s POSSIBLE that I O’ed during our vacation and could be pg, but given my history I highly doubt it since that was only 14-16 days into my cycle. Or maybe my normal temp is now higher for some unforeseen reason. But still, where the heck did my CM go? I guess I’ll test in the morning for piece of mind and just keep on temping. I may also read up on cysts- possibly it could be that hence the pain???

tlew: Yeah, my LPs are usually pretty short sometimes. The numbers I posted were averages, the last two cycles they’ve been starting to get longer, which is good. Last cycle it was actually 11 days. I do plan on bringing it up to my OB/GYN in January when I go in to see if she thinks I should be concerned or give it more time since it’s only my 7th cycle off of BC.