Sleep Teaching/Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

[kakirk]

On WC there are a couple of threads (specifically "Getting Aidan to sleep/The Mother of Sleep Training Threads"), and I figured there's bound to be some of us over here who need some help/support w/this one.

My twins are due any day now & we'll likely be using some of the Weisbluth methods. One thing I like about him specifically is that he says, in SEVERAL places, to feed on demand, soothe the baby, etc, but to pay attention to sleep cues.

I figure, if I'm watching for feeding cues, watching for sleeping cues should also be on the list. I think (for now anyways, reserve the right to change, of course) that it's my job as a parent to teach good sleep habits.

Anyone else? People who've successfully used it who can offer good advice?

Katie

[BTB]

We're "using" Weissbluth for now - in the sense that you can, at this age. My DD's two months old, and though his 0-4 month section contains info on the 3 ST methods, that seems to be a nod to mothers who need to return to work at six weeks. DD's asleep now, but the past 10 weeks with her have whacked out my circadian rhythms so bad, I'm not. :p

[maggieb]

We had horrible sleep issues with Helena. I read Weisssbluth over and over and eventually ended up using the Sleep Lady. Sleep isn't perfect for us, but it's a whole lot better than it used to be.

With #2 coming soon, I hope to change some things this time so that hopefully she'll be able to go to sleep on her own earlier than Helena did (at 10 mos old).

Would be happy to tell about our experiences and what worked for us and didn't as well as the mistakes that I think I made.

Maggie

[emschwar]

I'm here with a crappy sleeper! Noah's 14 months and has only slept through the night once. :rolleyes:

We did a little of weisbluth and a little of ferber. We also STed early (4 months) because we just felt at that point that we had no other options (getting Noah to bed then required over an hour of walking the halls and bouncing him, and then, when he was finally asleep, he'd wake up as soon as you tried to put him down).

[diedra1027]

I'd like to follow along. DD is 7 weeks old so we're still in the do whatever works mode. She actually STTN (according to Weisbluth's definition), but she requires full body contact from me to acheive it. I have Healthy Sleep Habits and No Cry Sleep Solution, but haven't set up a plan of attack yet.

I would love to hear from the seasoned Moms!

[deliciousjones]

I'm a big fan of the Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child book and we've put a lot of his advice to work in our household. We've been fortunate enough to not have to make the CIO (cry it out) decision as Rachel has STTN (slept through the night) since she was 10 weeks old.

I think that she's been such a great sleeper because we learned early on to pay attention to and respect her sleep cues and because we responded to her needs right away.

I have met some moms whose babies just didn't fit into the Weissbluth mold, though, and they've had some luck with other sleep books such as the No Cry Sleep Solution.

[jbemommy]

We found the Weisbluth book when DD was around 4 months old, and it was very helpful. She's now 16 months old, and sleeps from 7:30 till around 7 (sometimes 6:30, sometimes 7:30) and has transitioned to 1 nap/day for about 2-3 hours! She's really very good about going to sleep now, no struggles. We were having a horrible time getting her to sleep before the book, so we are fans. We'll see if it works that well with the next one.

[scout]

I liked most of this book, though I didn't agree with some it (crying it out for instance) The ONE thing that really worked for us was having an earlier bedtime. We were keeping ds up until 11:00, thinking that he'd sleep later. Then, we were wondering why he was so fussy from 8:00 until 11:00! My baby is still a pretty bad sleeper, but the earlier bedtime has helped a lot. I swear by the "2 hour rule". If the baby has been up and alert for two hours in a row, it's probably time for a nap.


Also--my baby's sleepy cues weren't very apparent at first. The only one was fussiness, and I just figured he was hungry. Now, if all of the baby's needs are met and he's fussy, I swaddle him up and put him to sleep!

[kmmommy]

We've always done whatever works. We've been lucky as Kaeden started sleeping through the night at 5 weeks and had just a short phase where he didn't right after I went back to work.

Now, at 10 months, he goes to bed between 7:30-8:30pm and sleeps until 7-7:30am. Plus, he naps for about 4 hours during the day.

However, I am scared of what baby #2 will bring. Kaeden's been almost too easy.

[kakirk]

because we learned early on to pay attention to and respect her sleep cues and because we responded to her needs right away.See, I think this is just *SO* key. If you're doing this, then (at least according to the book), there's no reason you should even get to the CIO point.

At least, that's what I'm HOPING will work for my two. We'll see though, right? :)

[BTB]

I liked most of this book, though I didn't agree with some it (crying it out for instance)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Weissbluth doesn't exactly "recommend" CIO, just present it as one of the three possible strategies, yes? Vs. check and console, and what's the other one, I'm blanking - graduated extinction? Anybody give those two a try? How'd it go?

[emschwar]

We did the graduated extinction (I think that's what it's called), which is pretty much the ferber method. Weisbluth says that in his experience, CIO works best and fastest, but I think he realizes it isn't for anyone.

[tray622]

I read the book and I began trying to time DD's sleep roughly around the "internal" clock he talks about around 3 months. We didnt even end up needing to use any method per se, since she thrived on the tips that book gave.

Here is a question for those who's babies have the 2 naps... Zoey has her naps at 9 and 1, and they are always good naps (1 hr minimum). The hard thing is keeping her up until bedtime. She wont go down for a third nap, but there are days where she is up from the nap at 2 and dead tired by 5. I usually keep her up until 6, then its bath and bed by 630. What experiences do you guys have with late afternoons? Will she ever be able to go to bed later?

:D

[emschwar]

Tracy - Noah still goes to bed at 7, and he's 14 months. I think some babies just have an early biological bedtime.

[SaphirimalMei]

So far we've been really lucky in the sleep department. (knock on wood) Jilly has been STTN since 3 months, however there is still room for improvement. She seems to move quickly from normal happy playing baby to being overtired.

I don't have the book you've mentioned, but I am currently reading the no-cry sleep solution. So far, so good. I can really get behind the advice given in that book, but am always interested in more advice :)

signing up here...

ETA...We're trying to set up a good bedtime routine and try for an earlier bedtime (right now it's around 9pm)

[Mickey&B]

Okay let me start by saying no I don't have a child of my own, but I will soon. However I have worked with infants/children and families for about 10 years (so I have a little experience) along with my degree in Child Growth and Development. With that little disclaimer :D

I agree this is absolutly keybecause we learned early on to pay attention to and respect her sleep cues and because we responded to her needs right away.

Professionally I can't agree with CIO method, because I know that at this time in your child's life they are learning about trust, and forming those bonds. The way I see it is how do I expect this little being to know that it is night time and it's time to stay asleep. and every child is different and not all babies will be sleeping through the night at a specific age.

I just started reading Secrets of the Baby Whisperer and I like almost everything I have read so far, mostly because it deals with respecting your child's needs and how to read their cues.
I also really liked Magda Gerber's book Caring for infants with respect. I'll have to check out the no cry sleep solution.
JMO, Again I am not a mother yet, but I am subscribing because I am sure I will need all that help and support from you experienced mommies. I can only imagine just how exhausted some of you are, but hang on it won't last forever.

[scout]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Weissbluth doesn't exactly "recommend" CIO, just present it as one of the three possible strategies, yes? You're right...he doesn't recommend CIO, but he does say that it's o.k. to let the baby CIO for up to a couple of hours. Of course, this is for an older baby. Or am I mixing this up with a different book?

[LeslieR]

*subscribing*

I've been trying to read Weisbluth's book for a couple months now, but my attention span seems to be getting shorter and shorter as I get closer to my due date. :rolleyes:

[Phen]

Katie, you're gonna want to marry Dr. Weissbluth, I swear. Life since we started using his methods has been just fantastic. Routine + twins = wonderful stuff.

Mickey, the thing I really dislike about equating Weissbluth's methods with CIO is that not every child actually CsIO. I swear to you, my boys were SO ready to sleep when we put them down that they have never cried more than maybe 10 minutes. No making-themselves-sick-by-crying-it-out over here.

Tray, my guys get draggy by the end of the afternoon but, as you pointed out, that third nap just won't happen sometimes (they dropped theirs entirely about a month or two ago--around 10 mos.). But don't forget: sleep begets sleep! So if you put the baby to bed a little early, it shouldn't mean she gets up earlier tomorrow. For instance, my guys typically go to bed between 6 and 6:15 p.m., but there are days when they had sucky naps and were completely Ready For Bedtime by 5:45. And we'd put them in their cribs and they'd snuggle right down, close their eyes, and be snoring practically before we'd tiptoed out of the room (and still slept 'til their normal wakeup time of 7 a.m. the next day).

eta: Leslie, you don't need to read the whole book at first. Two sections are invaluable, though: the Sleep Physiology (first "section") and then whatever section addresses your child's current age.

~ Phen
Loud and Proud about STing

[curlywig]

I've been trying to read HSHHC for what seems like months now (DS is 10 weeks old) but every time I pick it up, I have to run. I finally told DH that this weekend is all about reading the entire book.

So far "naps" have been different every day. Sometimes it seems DS gets sleepy in the morning, other times not. I have gotten better at reading his early sleep ques (sp?) especially this last week. Of course, today we were set to work on naps, but yesterday DS got some vax's and he's quite a bit "off" today. So, in the next day or two, we'll work on naps.

I so wish Weissbluth would come out with a Cliff Notes version. Don't these authors know that we don't have much spare time on our hands?!

[emschwar]

curlywig - 10 weeks is way too early for anything resembling a schedule. at this point, you want to pay attention to sleepy cues, and never have him awake for longer than 2 hours, and possibly closer to 1. If he's up longer than that, he'll get overtired and be impossible to get back to sleep.

You probably won't get him on a real schedule until closer to 6 months old. Of course, Noah's 14 months old and still doesn't have a real schedule. He just never would conform to one (some babies do that).

[diedra1027]

I so wish Weissbluth would come out with a Cliff Notes version. Don't these authors know that we don't have much spare time on our hands?!

Curlywig - I sat down to read HSHHC yesterday and I found that if I skipped all the testimonials the reading was so much quicker. I don't know about anybody else, but the testimonials actually confused me more than anything (lots of talk about training at 6 weeks and CIO for 4 hours at 8 weeks, etc, etc).

[BTB]

Scout ~ could be, I haven't read the sections on older babies yet. :)

curlywig ~ the summary at the end of each section is sufficient to get you started - or read "action plan for exhausted parents" at the end of the age group you need.

[seattleguamgirl]

I started using Weissbluth's method to catch Roman's sleepy signals early and IT WORKED. Now Roman takes two to three solid naps a day and recently started STTN for 11 - 13 hours! I am so so so happy I bought this book. :)

R's bed time used to be 8PM but after reading HSHHC, I moved it up to 5 or 6PM. It helped tremendously.

For those worrying about CIO, R very rarely cries when I put him to bed if I catch his sleepy signals in time. If he does cry, it's for 20 minutes max. I would never be able to let R cry for an extended period of time!

[twinnyme]

Hi. DD is 5.5 months old and she used to sleep through the night (from about 8 weeks to 12 weeks) but then started getting up again at night to eat. I am thoroughly confused at this point about what to do. I have read HSHHC and used it earlier, and I am okay with some CIO (like what Phen said - the 10-minute-settling-crying thing that Becca does is fine, and she does that pretty often, but if it goes much longer, we get very antsy and can't let her get too far). We are traveling to NYC this weekend by car and I am packing my copy of HSHHC - after one frustrating night, I threw it on DH's work bag the next morning to "suggest" he read it. I found it on the coffee table that night. :rolleyes: It's just hard to find time to read it now, so for those of you who are reading it BEFORE the babies, good for you!! Hopefully you'll be able to use the information earlier. We'll be having a discussion about it in the car this weekend.

I just posted this in my Jan. 05 group:

She didn't sleep as well, though - 7:20 to 1:30 a.m. and then until 7 - well not well for US, but better for her. 11 hours in total with one night wake-up versus the previous night which was 9 hours straight (8 to 5). So really, this night's sleep was better for HER so I'm just trying to think that way from now on. I just feel like such a bad mother when people ask is she sleeping through the night and I have to say no, but then as I said to DH this morning, we know her best and respond to her the way we think is right. At least it's only 1-2 times a week that she wakes up at night; it just seems more to me - I think I'm going to start charting it so I can see it visually and feel better.

I've been trying to get her bedtime earlier but we get home from daycare at 5:30 or so, and she usually eats a meal of solids, takes one more bottle, has a bath and some quiet playtime, etc. I do think I'm letting her get overtired before I put her to bed but if I try to put her in bed at 7, she is extremely frustrated and will not go to sleep at all. Perhaps even earlier would work? I don't know at this point. Maybe when I start my part-time job, the days I'm home with her I can work on a better schedule, and then implement that at daycare.

But I'm open to any and all suggestions, too!

[emschwar]

twinnyme - I'd try getting her to bed earlier. Up until the switch to DST, Noah went to bed at 6 - 6:30 every night (now he's gone up to 7). Can you speed up the after daycare routine, and maybe skip the playtime?

[twinnyme]

I guess but I feel so bad not playing with her at all then (which I think is so important developmentally - but then again I guess so is sleep). But I think it's going to have to come to that for her sake.... I've been considering not giving her a bath anymore - she has so much hair that it's then wet when she goes awake (though I did blowdry it for the first time last night) but she' eating solids now and gets really messy (though a quick sponge bath would work, I guess).

I just long for the days when she went to bed at 6:45 and slept until 6:45 (from 8 to 12 weeks), for her sake and ours. My mother told me then to not mess it up (nicely; because things were going so well) but somehow I guess we did. :confused: But even for a while she easily went to sleep between 7 and 8, and then it got later during one family event weekend (her baptism) and we've struggled ever since. So I guess that's part of how we messed it up.... Anyway, I'm definitely going to try moving it earlier. After the baptism I did move it from 9 to about 7:30 (in a few weeks) so I guess I'll just keep trying to cut short the bedtime routine and get her in even earlier before she gets overtired.

Thanks, emschwar!

[Phen]

twinnyme, I agree with em. It could just be that 15 minutes earlier might make all the difference in the world here.

Also maybe if she's got sleepy cues at some point earlier in the night (like if she gets the 500-mile stare while having her bottle, but then perks up for her bath), switch the order of things.

And the overnight trip away from home might be the perfect time to try to implement this/these change(s), since it's possible that the routine is going to take a bit of a shake-up then anyhow. Good luck!

~ phen

[twinnyme]

twinnyme, I agree with em. Also maybe if she's got sleepy cues at some point earlier in the night (like if she gets the 500-mile stare while having her bottle, but then perks up for her bath), switch the order of things.

She does - and that's EXACTLY what she does; perk up for her bath! I'd tried to introduce the bath to help create a bedtime routine, but maybe it's just too much for her. It does seem to stimulate her more than relax her, I've noticed lately. Maybe I'm trying to do too much - I think I'm doing everything but the kitchen sink in the routine - solids, bottle, bath, massage, quiet playtime, book (usually doesn't happen), last quick bottle with holding lovey at same time. (The bedtime routine thread on WC was so helpful; I only introduced this routine about a month ago.) Her sleepy cues are there earlier but she "perks up" when I put her in her crib, and cries her little head off, and so I've gotten into the habit of picking her up again and soothing her, and then it's a game of going in the crib and coming out a few times.

And the overnight trip away from home might be the perfect time to try to implement this/these change(s), since it's possible that the routine is going to take a bit of a shake-up then anyhow.

Good point! She did sleep beautifully at my mother's last time we were there. We just have to stick to the routine, and we have every intention of doing so this time, no matter any protests from my family. We learned our lesson at her baptism.

Thanks for the input, Phen - sorry to monopolize the last few posts, everyone, but hopefully those reading along will find something helpful in this conversation!

[Phen]

You're not monopolizing twinnyme! Not if it's helping, anyway. ;)

We had the exact same thing happen with the bathtime. It was totally waking our boys up, so we did bathtime first then the rest of the sleepytime routine and POW. that's all it took.

~ Phen

[curlywig]

Ya, I figured we're a bit too early for ST, but I wanted to find out about any "bad habits" to avoid those now. ??

Any advice. Seems like this is our pattern. DS wakes around 6-6:30 am, I feed him, change him, he starts yawning and rubbing his eyes. Clear sleep ques. I spend the next 45 min-1 hour trying to get him to go to sleep. This morning, I put him in the crib awake and somewhat mellow. I can hear him grunting and restling (but not crying). We did that same thing ALL DAY yesterday, with nothing more than a 45 min. nap (of course, some of that was like due to feeling icky after vaxs).

Or, am I expecting too much? I'm not expecting a schedule at this point, but is it too much to hope for a nap somewhere in the AM and somewhere in the PM?

TIA!

[emschwar]

curlywig - If he's yawning and rubbing his eyes, he may be overtired. Try putting him down about 10 minutes earlier and see what happens. Is there any way you can get him to sleep? Rocking, nursing/bottle, driving in the car? Weisbluth doesn't really recommend some of those, but at this point, I think it's more important that he sleep. When Noah was that little, we had to bounce him gently in our arms until he was asleep, then we could put him down. I don't think you should expect long naps at this point. Some babies are cat nappers when they're young.

Vaxes always threw Noah's naps to hell.

[twinnyme]

I don't think you should expect long naps at this point. Some babies are cat nappers when they're young.

Yes, this was our case. Becca was always a catnapper until about 4 months of age or so (after she started daycare). I tell you, 13-hour days alone with her and nothing but catnaps really wore on me. But it was just her way. Although Weissbluth didn't recommend movement sleep, I had been doing that a lot with her before (stroller, car - though only unintentionally; swing, bouncy seat) but after I read him, once she fell asleep in one of those things, I would turn it off and she usually stayed asleep. Now she takes most naps in the bouncy seat - though she sleeps in her crib at night, I've almost given up on getting her to nap there - but without movement.

Oh, and one humorous tip: I can tell when Becca is getting tired when we're on a walk if her hat slips down over her eyes and she doesn't complain. It means she's overstimulated and WANTS to go to sleep but is fighting it. (If she cries it's because she's mad and still wants to look around.) The other day I actually put a hat on her inside the house to help her go to sleep - I also sometimes face the bouncy to the wall to give her less stimulation. (DH calls it the "naughty spot" from Nanny 911 or one of those shows but that's not my intention and we're helping her sleep, I figure, though SIL said the other day when my child needs therapy because she needs a hat to fall asleep....) Also, daycare says she always takes her naps in her crib and NEVER cries - in fact, they always ask me, "does she ever cry?" - so I don't know what we're doing wrong, but at least they got her on a nap system.

But I can sympathize with you, curlywig, though you may not to follow anything I suggest since we haven't been very successful so far! :D

[seattleguamgirl]

Any advice. Seems like this is our pattern. DS wakes around 6-6:30 am, I feed him, change him, he starts yawning and rubbing his eyes.

Curlywig--have you tried leaving your DS in his crib (or wherever he sleeps) for twenty minutes or so after he wakes up? He might be able to go back to sleep on his own after initially waking up.

In my experience, if DS wakes up (not crying) earlier than 7AM I leave him in his crib unless I know he is fussy because he is hungry. If he is hungry I immediately nurse him and put him back in his crib to see if he will falll asleep again. If he is up after 7AM, we go about our morning routine (nursing, changing, playing) and then he goes back down at 9AM for his morning nap.

[curlywig]

Thanks everyone for the advice. We're still just seeing what works and DS is still getting used to life on the outside! ;)

seattle: I usually leave him alone until he starts crying. I can hear him on the monitor, and he's been figuring out how to get his hand in his mouth, and generally just looking around. I won't go get him if he sounds awake but content. I should try what you've suggested and see if it works, esp. since he gets tired so fast in the morning. I guess I've just been in the mindset that our day has begun by that point, KWIM?

emschwar and twin: Good to know. I thought I was alone in having a baby who was a cat-napper. I need to reel in the expectations a bit and realize he's still just a wee one. Half the battle is knowing what's "normal" at any given age!

[twinnyme]

I couldn't wait to get into work this morning to post in this thread!! (Becca shares her room with our office - we have a 2-bedroom - so I can't post from home at night). Anyway, thank you very much, emschwar and phen- you two are my heroes of the day!!! :D

You gave me the confidence last night to take your advice, and I put Becca to bed at 6:10, after a dinner of solids and a small (3 oz.) bottle. Not a SINGLE peep of protest from her as she went beautifully to sleep! (I was picturing your twins, Phen, snuggling into their beds happily.) I actually think that Becca has been trying to give me a cue (or a clue?) the last few days; she tends to look at her crib longingly sometimes now and I just didn't realize it until last night, though I know she's done it before. Anyway, it was amazing to have so much time last night to get things done - and honestly to relax a bit. I was still asleep by 9:00 but I actually had some down time to myself. And the good news for her is that she didn't have to cry when she went to sleep! (which I always feel so bad about) DH was shocked when he came home and everything was calm and quiet - he said "baby girl in bed already?" and I was proud to say yes! (though I felt bad he couldn't see her; he's been working a lot lately and actually got home relatively early last night, at a time when he usually would see her - but as HSHHC says, it's not a reason to keep a child up) He was amazed, and I reminded him that "sleep begets sleep" (as you said, Phen, and as I use as my mantra from HSHHC) - he didn't quite get that, so we'll be reading that section of the book this weekend, too! :)

The "bad"/confusing news? :confused: She still woke up at 2:40 a.m. to eat. But again, for her sake, the 8 straight hours she got, then going back to sleep about 3:30 until I left (6:15) and probably later is good for HER. (Btw, her normal wake up time is 5 or 6.) When she woke up last night, I heard her at 2:40 and she seemed to be talking to herself/playing so I didn't go in immediately. It soon escalated to crying, though, so I went in and tried the pacifier for a little while - didn't work, as usual; she's never really taken to the pacifier, though occasionally will take it to soothe herself into a nap. I gave her a bottle and she ate 4 oz. Since she'd had four 6-oz. bottles yesterday (a record for her), I figured she really didn't need to eat, but was just up for the companionship. I'm going to try to just feed her 2 or 3 oz. tonight, and then keep going down to 0 oz. and then the pacifier, and see if that helps. (A few weeks ago, I was prepared to try that, and then that night she started STTN spontaneouly for about 12 nights straight.)

Any tips on the overnight waking, though? Do you think my plan to decrease the amount in the bottle is okay? I know that HSHHC has tips on night wakings, so we'll be reading that section this weekend in the car - but any advice from all of you is appreciated, too, especially before the weekend!

I did write down all the times she woke this week (to visualize it) and she slept through the night only twice. (Strange that our perception is that she does it more; I guess that's good, though.) I figure if I put her into bed at 8 she may sleep "through the night" (8 hours) until 5, but she's so overtired then. So I kind of want to find a happy balance for her - but until further notice, she'll be going to bed at 6-ish from now on.

One question, though: I know my family will flip out if we put her to bed at 6 when we're there, and I know that I just posted a few messages back that I don't care what they think, we're sticking to her routine this time.... But honestly we only see them maybe once every other month and I want them to have time to get to know her, so I'm THINKING of keeping her up until 7 or 8 there, since we know she can do it, and that the only real issue is having trouble getting her to sleep. She remains generally happy until 7/8, just cries then when she's put in her crib.... But I also don't want to make the same mistake we made at her baptism, either, so anyone want to convince me NOT to keep her up later while we're there? (Also, how do your children react to changes in routine? I really do not want to get her SO dependent on a routine that she can't handle change, but I want a routine for the majority of her time.) Any advice?

THANKS AGAIN!!

[emschwar]

Melissa - if it was me, I wouldn't keep her up. You might be able to get away with it one night, but more than that, and I think her sleep will suffer. Just be firm with your family and tell them that 6 is bedtime, and that's that. You're the mom and they need to respect your decisions.

Also, she's young enough that she still may need to eat during the night. She'll also be hitting a growth spurt soon, which'll mean more food. Heck, Noah's 14 months and still rarely can get through the night without eating. :rolleyes: Some of that may be habit, but he does have a pretty fast metabolism.

Congrats on the good night last night! I hope you have more!

[twinnyme]

Yeah, that's what I thought you'd say! :) Thanks, Emily. And I KNOW that DH will agree with you, too.

P.S. I do know I'm the mom, and part of it is my mom-guilt telling me that MY mom will barely know my child..... We see DH's family so much more - they've seen her every weekend the last 3 weeks. But that's just an emotional thing that I have to deal with. As the parent, I still have to protect my child. Thanks.

[Phen]

Congratulations on the wonderful night!!

The overnight waking to eat...do you think it's really hunger waking her or habit? We noticed with Thomas (he was waking once a night at 5.5M to eat) that his overnight meal was more like he'd take a couple sucks off the bottle and then bat it away and start playing with our hands. He thought it was playtime at 2 in the freakin' morning!!

Anyhow, my point is that after we established that he was not waking hungry but instead to play, we used the Total Extinction for the overnights, and didn't go to him when he woke at 2 a.m. and called for a bottle. It took two nights of some indignant fussing (first night maybe 10 min., second night maybe 5 minutes, nothing third night), but we broke that 2 a.m. playtime habit.

That was the hardest, though...that total extinction. Don't let me fool you into thinking it was easy for me to do! It sucked listening to him cry. But I could tell by his cries that he was not hungry or hurt, just calling for us and a bit mad, so that helped me stay strong and not go to him.

~ phen

[twinnyme]

Thanks, Phen.

To answer your question, I'm not sure now. I think it's just hunger but after what Emily said about Noah I'm not completely sure.... DH thinks it's hunger, but I really do think (on instinct) that it is a combination (though it IS more than just 1-2 sucks of the bottle like your Thomas.) She often does eat between 3-5 oz. at night when she does wake up. But I can't tell whether, if we somehow altered her "schedule," whether we could eliminate the nighttime feedings. I also know that before, she HAS slept 10-11 hour stretches w/o eating, but perhaps her metabolism IS changing or she is going through a growth spurt.

It's funny, a while back, DH was all for total extinction and I was not; now we've kind of reversed - though I think with him, it's the short-term goal (i.e. being able to sleep THAT particular night) he's thinking of whereas with me I think of the long-term goal (helping her sleep through the night on a regular basis, not just fixing the "problem" for that night). We have tried total extinction but it was more than 5-10 minutes, and we cannot stand that (though we have let it go longer a little bit). But we haven't been consistent about it, which I know is a mistake, and we have really only done it to GET her to sleep not in the middle of the night. I'm willing to try it, I think, and could somewhat bear it (keeping the long-term goal in mind) but DH doesn't seem willing to try it anymore. That's part of why we're planning to review HSHHC this weekend on our trip!

Our friends, who have a 9 month old, said they did Ferber at 5.5 months with their daughter and it worked after a couple of days. Although it's harder, I kind of like the total extinction better (mostly because according to Weissbluth, it's easier to get back into the routine doing total extinction after changes to the routine - like trips away!). They also told us that their doctor (who is our doctor) told us to not do until their daughter weighed 15 pounds. :confused: :confused: Becca is only 13 lb. 1 oz. right now - we have another appointment on July 8th for her six-month WBV. I plan to ask him then about this.

I can understand why with twins it's really necessary to have a schedule (I'm a twin myself - hence my "twinnyme" name) but I guess I feel a little like, it's only one baby, why can't I deal with it? (Sort of the "you're a bad mother if you can't get your baby to STTN" thing that I posted about a few messages back - why do you even have to do things like total extinction/cio/etc.; couldn't you have made this happen before this?) Sorry, just babbling here, but gearing up for that this weekend, too; I get nervous when we're around other people and we let her cry to sleep.... With just us, I'm fine about it, but with other people, I feel like they're always judging us. The first time I felt comfortable about it was when we had friends over a couple of weekends ago; they have a 20-month-old and a 1.5-month-old. The older boy took a nap at our place and he cried/babbled/shrieked for about 10 minutes, and they were completly blase about it - and said that's what he does all the time. He never sounded mad, just like that was his way, and they let him do it. I felt SO comfortable with them after that, but with other people, it's harder, especially our families - they're always judging one way or the other!

Thanks for the support, everyone!

[maggieb]

twinnyme: I hope you don't mind me responding. I know how hard it is to make the decision to let your child cry or not. We went through the same thing when Helena was 10 mos old. I ended up hiring the Sleep Lady b/c things were so bad for us. Helena would get up several times at night and stay up. No amount of nursing, rocking, patting, etc. helped her go back to sleep. The plain truth for us was that she never, ever had a chance to learn to go to sleep on her own.

I know other people can be judgmental about letting your child cry, but they aren't in your shoes? KWIM? After the 10 mos of practically no sleep that I got, I really didn't care anymore about what others thought. I just knew that my DD, myself and my DH needed some sleep. And, more importantly, my DD needed to learn to go to sleep on her own and to soothe herself back to sleep. I feel like that's a lifelong lesson that is essential to a person's well-being.

It's soooooo tough, but the most important part is consistency. The more inconsistency that take place, the harder and harder it's going to be to eventually teach her to go to sleep on her own and stay asleep. My biggest suggestion is to make sure that she's completely healthy and that you have her ped's confirmation to go ahead. That way you will feeel more at ease. Also, you have to be totally ready. I was so ready that although the crying bothered me, I was able to keep in mind the end goal. You and DH really need to be on the same page to be able to support each other.

Good luck and I hope it didn't feel like I was giving you a lecture. I get very heated when I talk about sleep issues and judgmental people. No one knows what you are going through but you and your family. Please feel free to email me if you'd like more info about exactly how we proceeded with teaching her to go to sleep on her own and how to go back to sleep.

Maggie

[twinnyme]

I don't mind at all, maggieb - in fact, I welcome and appreciate it. The more experienced moms that chime in, the better - and the same for those with questions. I tend to type quickly, so I can write a lot and feel like I'm monopolizing threads.... but vibrancy is important, and feedback is great!

I know we're being inconsistent and I know we're not on the same page (hence the discussion this weekend); that's kind of why I'm so gung-ho on this right now. We need to come up with a plan and STICK WITH IT! I wish that DH was going to be on vacation soon so we could do it then, because it'll be difficult for me to bear alone (he gets home pretty late) but it has to be done, though perhaps I'll just continue to put her to bed at 6-ish now, then after we go to our ped. appt. on July 8th start in earnest then.

I just knew that my DD, myself and my DH needed some sleep. And, more importantly, my DD needed to learn to go to sleep on her own and to soothe herself back to sleep. I feel like that's a lifelong lesson that is essential to a person's well-being.

Exactly! I subscribe to the theory that a well-rested FAMILY is a happy FAMILY. And I have suffered from insomnia myself for years, so I feel extremely concerned about setting the right sleep habits for Becca. That's kind of why I was introducing the bedtime routine - I was trying for consistency; I even wrote up a post-it of the steps in the routine that I keep at her bedside. :rolleyes: I'm trying! But the tip to shorten the routine (and still make it consistent) was a GREAT one for me (thanks again, em and phen) I'm learning to make consistency a priority for her - it IS difficult for me, because I am somewhat of a go-with-the-flow person (whenever my superorganized self isn't showing up!) and I was also trying to go with HER flow (at least what I thought was her flow, but now I'm learning new cues she's giving me).

Does Helena sleep well now? :) And can you share tips of what you've learned that you plan to do with Marisa now? :) By the way, congratulations!! July is almost here, and I was born in July - so it's a great month for a birthday. :D

Thanks again for chiming in!

[Franni]

I would like to second maggieb sentiments. I was very hard on myself, feeling like I failed my baby when I finally decided to let her CIO, but it has been a sanity saver for us.

She got so bad that she was only sleeping in 20 minute increments and it would take another 20 minutes to get her to sleep. She is so much better now though. My only "gripe" with CIO is that when her schedule gets disrupted especially by illness, the training starts over. It's not usually as bad as the first time.

At her best, she slept 11 hours straight. Then she got sick. We had to retrain and now she sleeps about 7-9 before she wants to eat.

[karilynne_97]

This is such an awesome thread, and I've already gotten tons of advice just by reading, but I have a question that I'm hoping you ladies can help me out with.

DD is 3 mos old, and has been pretty much sleeping through the night since 6-8 wks, with a few night wakings here and there. This is my 2nd week back to work, so DD started daycare last week, although she's been with my mom this week because my daycare (my cousin) committed to a week of Day Camp before committing to watching DD; my point is there have been changes in her life.

Anyways, all last week DD was sleeping through the night until last weekend when she became horribly gassy and constipated; she's been on formula for 3 feedings a day for about 4 weeks now, and she's started elimanating BF feedings (refusing my boob). So, all this week she's been waking between 2-3am with gas, then wants to eat.

When she sleeps through the night we wake her at 5am to eat and feed her every 3 hours. We begin her nighttime routine around 7:30-8pm which includes a bath, massage, book (if she's still awake), feeding, rocking, swaddle and finally to sleep around 9pm.

Question: she starts getting really tired around 6-7pm to the point where she dozes off while in the Snugli with Daddy (her fav place!). Should I put her to bed earlier? We've already cut out her 11pm feeding, and we're not comfortable cutting out her 8-8:30pm feeding, so if I put her to bed earlier, should I wake her for her last feeding? She eats 4oz at each feeding so cutting another feeding out wouldn't be good.

DH thinks we should put her to bed early then wake her around 10pm for a last feeding, but Dr suggested not waking her up. I would really like to help her to get back to sleeping through the night. The gas & constipation have seemed to go for now; there was a question as to whether or not we would be changing her formual to Soy, but changed to Dr Brown's bottles which have seemed to help with the gassiness and she's pooped up a storm yesterday and today (who ever thought they would be happy to see poop! :rolleyes: ).

Anyways, sorry for rambling. Any suggestions would be appriecated.

edited to add: DD has 2-3 naps for 1-2 hrs a day (although today my Mom says she's not naping for more than 30 mins at a time, little bugger!)

[emschwar]

karilynne - this is just me, and not everyone agrees, but I personally don't believe in waking a baby to eat, unless there's a medical reason to do so. My opinion is, if she's hungry, she'll wake up and let you know. If she's getting tired at 6, I'd put her to bed then.

Of course, you can take everything I say with a big old grain of salt, since Noah still doesn't STTN at 14 months. (We've had some weight loss though, so he really did need to wake up to eat for a while.)

[twinnyme]

karilynne_97 - I have never woken DD to feed her, but then I didn't have to. She fed basically around the clock at the beginning! :rolleyes: Just an idea, though - maybe if you put her to bed earlier (like when she's getting tired at 6-7) she'll wake on her own. I took the advice of some nice women on here the other day and started putting DD to bed when she was tired (6:10 on Wed., 6:30 last night), and though she woke up both nights, the first night was at 2:40 and last night was at 8:50 p.m. so perhpas your daughter will wake on her own to eat... and you won't have to worry.

Btw, I think she woke last night because she ate her last bottle at daycare at 4-something, then I fed her solids when we got home (6:00 - I ran late yesterday because of holiday traffic - already!), a small bottle (only took 1.5 oz. - was probably full from the solids; I usually space it out a little more), and then probably woke at 8:50 because she'd taken such a small bottle at 6.... She ate only 2.5 oz. then (which brought her up to her usual total of about 27 oz. for the day). But it was still better than her waking at 2:40 a.m. to eat!!! In fact, this pattern will work just fine for me if it's what we have (and I figure that 8:50 isn't really "night" - though anyone care to comment on whether we SHOULD treat it as "night"?) from now on.... She then slept through from about 9:15 to 6:00!!! Yay!

[twinnyme]

Another successful night - though she went to bed a little later, at 7, she went with no protest, and slept through until 5:30. This timing would be perfect for us if she continues it. Loving it! Well, we're off on our car trip to NY, so have a good holiday, everyone!

[karilynne_97]

Last night we woke DD up at 10:30pm for a feeding and she slept until 5am! :D I really think she's needing that extra feeding. Now, if we can just get her to stop being gassy. We're getting ready to switch her to Soy, but that's a different thread!

[curlywig]

Okay, I'm royally confused. DS is 11+ weeks old (born one week after EDD), and from what I've heard, he is too young to ST. But then HSHHC has a whole section on 0-4 months.

I thought HSHHC was all about not CIO, but it appears to be (from the 0-4 mo section I read). Maybe strategies for older children differ?

DS is an AWFUL napper, so that is what we're working on first. At night, he goes to sleep around 7pm (we start his bedtime ritual at about 5:30), and wakes twice to eat (FF) before rising at about 6am for the day. One problem we have is that DS is somewhat like the Princess and the Pea when it comes to burps. If there is even a tiny one in there, he wakes up and fusses until you get it out.

BTW, does anyone know when babies develop the ability to burp themselves? I'm guessing it's when they become more mobile?

TIA.

ETA: Should we continue to go in and burp him apprx. 4-5 times after putting him down (he starts to fuss then cry). Tonight we put him down at 6:30, and it's now 7:15 and I've burped him at least 4 times (after thoroughly burping while feeding). Urgh.

[twinnyme]

curlywig - I also thought that HSHHC was confusing because although Weissbluth seems to not recommend CIO for under 4 months old, he has MANY examples in the testimonies about under-4-month-olds. I don't have an answer for you. We started it a little bit at around 4.5 months.

I like your description of the Princess & the Pea burps... too funny - though I'm sure it's not fun when it's happening. When my mother was here in late May (DD was 4.5 months) she said I didn't have to burp her religiously anymore. So now I only burp her when she wiggles a lot, usually through most of the bottle (5-7 oz.) and she often burps on her own (sometimes many minutes later, which always surprises me).

I'm here to report on our success with Becca... so far so good; the earlier bedtime definitely seems to work. We stuck to our guns on our trip to NY to see my family, which was hard because they rarely see her, but it works! She's slept from 7 to 5-5:30 every day and last night went to bed at 6 without a peep and slept until 5:30. It's been about a week now, and it's a dream. It was hard in NY because we had to leave Central Park at 6 p.m. in broad daylight to go back to the apartment with her to do the bedtime routine. (But my sister and BIL understood, as they have had terrible sleep problems with their 20-month-old.) And on the 4th of July, we did let her stay up later (until about 7) but she still went to sleep okay (my father then woke her up, :mad: but that's another story!) And last night we really wanted her to meet our friends with 3 kids who came over to visit (they're from another state but were in town) but she went to bed unusually at 6 (had immunizations yesterday so I'm thinking that may be why) and they didn't see her. But, having 3 kids, they completely understood - maybe at Christmas when they'll be back.

Anyway, the consistency seems to be working! And we saw the ped. yesterday who said now that she's shown she can STTN without eating, to not feed her again in the middle of the night if she wakes up. He didn't quite say what to do instead but we'll figure that out if it happens again.... For now, I'm hoping it doesn't!

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice about our situation! I really appreciate it.

[emschwar]

He didn't quite say what to do instead but we'll figure that out if it happens again.... For now, I'm hoping it doesn't!
Sorry, I just had to laugh at this! This is our exact problem! Noah definitely doesn't need to eat in the middle of the night, but it's the easiest way to get him back to sleep! (And sometimes the only way :rolleyes: )

[twinnyme]

Sorry, I just had to laugh at this! This is our exact problem! Noah definitely doesn't need to eat in the middle of the night, but it's the easiest way to get him back to sleep! (And sometimes the only way :rolleyes: )

Yeah, so far, we've created a HUGE association between the bottle and sleeping but we'll see how it goes. I love how he didn't say much. I'm starting to think this ped. is very close to the chest about a lot of things - he's very much on the fence about everything, very careful to say only neutral things. But I guess he's a professional and that's the way it should be. We'll just continue to figure it out as we go! ;)

[Bernie & Matt]

We're in the midst of moving and I can't get ahold of my copy of Weissbluth. Can someone fill in the blanks about what he says for napping for an almost 13 mo old? How long should naps be? When to transition to one nap instead of two? About how long after getting up in the morning is the first nap? How long after the first nap until the second?

TIA!!

[twinnyme]

Bernie & Matt - I hope you got the answers you needed (and I hope your move went well).

I'm back with a question: What do you do about early wakers?? We have been doing very well on the STTN issue - DD has STTN consistently (from between 6 and 7 to between 5 and 6) since July 1 (we had a couple of middle-of-the-night feedings because she was sick and only taking in about 15 oz. during the day). Anyway, I'm hoping that lasts.... but in the last few days, DD has begun to wake earlier. Two nights ago, it was 4:15 a.m. and last night it was 4:45 a.m. She went to bed about 7:30 both nights. Before that, she'd been going to sleep around 6:45 p.m. consistently for quite a while. I don't know how to push this back to her usual waking time of between 5 and 6 a.m. (which is already early enough!!). The good thing is that at least she goes back to sleep after the 4-ish a.m. feeding.

One thing that's changed is that for the last two weeks I have had a new schedule - I started a new job and it's part-time, so I'm home full days on Mondays and Fridays, so I have 4 consecutive days with her. But the first week her sleeping pattern stayed the same.... it's only in the last couple of nights that it's changed. Also, she is becoming much more mobile (she'll be 7 months on Sunday), not crawling yet or walking but definitely trying and getting frustrated. She's trying out a lot of new skills, which I know sometimes makes a difference in sleep patterns.

I believe Weissbluth (I need to refresh myself as well) says to not go in before 6 a.m. but I just can't see myself doing that. She's actually becoming MUCH better at playing independently in her crib for a while after waking (and before naps) but she still cries when she wakes around 4 and wants to eat. Should I consider this middle-of-the-night? She has slept about 9 hours and is napping well doing the day. I'm thinking I have to work hard at putting her to bed earlier again - the late bedtime crept up over the last few days - that may be the solution. Or maybe she's just an early riser; I mean, it's not like she was waking at 7 or 8 and all of a sudden it's 4 or 5 - she's always woken between 5 and 6.

Any suggestions? Your suggestions all worked so well last time, so I appreciate any input you have. (I tried to find a thread on "early wakers" - I could have sworn I saw one at some point but despite an exhaustive search I'm not finding it; perhaps it was on the other site - which I also searched though their search is a little cumbersome now.)

TIA!

[Renrel]

One thing to try is making sure all or as much light is blocked out as you can. We put blanket over the window in the winter due to drafts and left two of them up to block sunlight in the summer due to a similiar problem. We also leave a fan on in the bathroom or the one on the A/C in DS room to keep morning noice from waking DS during this light sleep time. I also try leaving a few books or small toys in the crib for him to amuse himself with if he gets up before us.

[twinnyme]

Thanks, Renrel - those are all great suggestions. It doesn't really seem light yet at 4:15 or 4:45, though, or at least not the last few days- it's kind of light by the time I'm done feeding her, but she still goes back to sleep. I have thought about getting room-darkening shades before, but we had seemed to solve the sleep issues and so I never did. I like the idea of the toys a lot - especially since she's already used to playing with toys in her crib - but when did you start putting them in there? I thought we weren't supposed to put toys, stuffed animals, etc. in the crib - but maybe some books with rattles on them? Those seem pretty safe. She does sleep with a lovey blanket/toy and I have found her playing with that in the morning. She also has the Fisher-Price aquarium and a mobile (which sometimes moves b/c of the fan and I've seen her watching it) and a Kick n Play piano which I've been hearing more and more of in the middle of the night and the mornings.

[karilynne_97]

twinnyme-

Gosh, I wish I could help you. Have there been any changes that might cause this, like teething? I'm at a loss.

Maybe you can help me with DD's situation: at her 4 mo appt, Dr said no more swaddling. Ever since then she hasn't slept straight through the night (she was when she was swaddled). We try to make the room comfortable (not too cold, not too warm), fill her tummy before bed, have a consistent nighttime routine, make sure the room is dark, have white noise going on in the background yet she is consistently waking up at least once between 1-4am! We've tried a week of not waking her up for a "dream feed" since she was waking up at 2am regardless, but that hasn't helped.

Feeding her is sometimes the only way to get her to go back asleep. I've rocked her and she'll fall asleep, but will wake up when I put her down (this only happens in the middle of the night), I've brought her to bed with us and she just wants to play.

I haven't tried an earlier bed time yet, mainly because I can't figure out to make her feeding schedule work with her bed time. Right now she's eating every 3 hours. Daycare feeds her at 4, before DH picks her up to go home, so that would mean that she would need to eat at 7 so how would a 6:30pm bed time work out? Plus, she doesn't seem tired at all until 7. I'm at a total loss.

But, I do have good news! I've finally got her to fall asleep for the night without having to eat. I've changed the order of our nighttime routine. We now eat, then have a bath, massage, read a book, and rock to sleep. It takes a little longer but she can do it!

Oh, and I just remembered: when she wakes up in the middle of the night, I don't wait for her to cry. I think that if I can get in there quickly, I can give her her pacifier and she'll go back to sleep. Lately she sees me and wakes up. Maybe I've just answered my own questions: let her cry before going in to her.

[twinnyme]

karilynne_97 - actually, now that you mention it, she MAY be teething. She's drooling more than ever.... However, she's been drooling for MONTHS on end (literally) so I don't know that she's actually teething now. But I have been thinking that, so maybe that's it. If she is, I'm lucky if it's only the night wakings; she's hardly been fussy at all.

You may not like my answer about your DD's situation, though you did allude to crying it out. We did do some sleep training/crying it out and that did help for a while - but the thing that seems to help most is getting her to bed early. I think I just posted in another thread recently that for a while our bedtime routine contained everything but the kitchen sink - books, bath, lotion/massage, diaper change/putting on PJ's, 15-minute quiet play time, brushing her hair, and bottle - when I cut out everything but the bottle with the lovey (she holds the lovey while she eats the last bottle and then I put her to bed with it) and put her to bed earlier, things actually got better and she went to bed earlier. (For a while, she just cried way too much when going to bed, and I finally figured out that she was tired earlier, but I was waiting too long to put her to bed.) I hear you about the daycare/home schedule, though - for a while there, I was picking her up at 5, bringing her home, and basically giving her a bottle and putting her to bed. I hated that. But now she's slowly delayed sleeping until 6:45 so at least we get to see her a little.... (and I'm now working part-time, so I see her even more).

That's great that you've gotten her to bed without a bottle, though. I'm worried that our "routine" will eventually create a bottle monster - i.e. she won't be able to go to sleep without it.

I'm curious: why did your ped. say no swaddling after 4 months?? We stopped around then (or earlier, I don't remember exactly) because DD was kicking out of it, but if your DD wasn't escaping it, why can't you use it any longer? I know of babies who've been swaddled much longer than 4 months... and if it had still worked for us, we'd still be doing it!

[karilynne_97]

I'm not sure why the Dr said no swaddling, she just said it was time. I think it's because she's rolling over and if swaddled she won't be able to push herself up. She used to kick out of the swaddle and/or get her hands free, but that was in the morning. Taking a step back, she's actually doing really well without being swaddled; she'll sleep from 7:30pm to 2-4am, which is more than 5 hrs, so it can be considered STTN, so really I can't complain. I just miss the days of her sleeping until 6 or 7am. I could always revert back and swaddle her and put her in a sleep positioner; I just don't know!

DD's starting to teeth, so I think that's also the problem. The last few weeks have been horrible. She'll be great one min then crying in pain the next. Last night I think I saw the white bump on her gums, so hopefully that sucker will pop through soon.

If your DD's teething, that might be it. How's her appetite? I hear that if they're teething their appetite goes down because it hurts their gums to suck. So, if she's not eating as much during the day, she could be hungry.

I keep reminding myself what I've heard, and read, in the past about sleep habits and infants: just when you think you've got it down, they go and change it on you! :D

[twinnyme]

I keep reminding myself what I've heard, and read, in the past about sleep habits and infants: just when you think you've got it down, they go and change it on you! :D

Exactly - just like everything else they do!

Well, it's 5:50 a.m. here, and DD has been up since 4:49. She woke at 4:49, I laid in bed for a couple of minutes - and by 4:53 she was quiet again and I heard her Kick & Play piano go on. Usually I go right in and say "We hear you Becca. Good morning. I'll be right back with a bottle." Today I didn't and she was quiet until 5:07 - so that gave me 20 more minutes in bed, her some time to learn to soothe herself, and got us to the between 5 and 6 a.m. time. I don't know that she'll ever wake up later than 6 a.m. (though maybe when she's a teenager!) but I'm happy with how things worked out today. Also, she went to bed at 6:45 last night again - guess it goes back and forth.... I also left a few small toys in her crib, and she has played with those a little.

[karilynne_97]

We just put a toy mirror in Kassidy's crib and when I went to her this morning she had her nose on the mirror talking to herself. Too cute!

So, we put Kassidy to be at 7pm, which is a little early for us, but we're trying out the early bed time, and she woke up at 12:00AM!! UGH! So, we fed her and she went right back to sleep until I went in there at 6am; who knows how long she had been awake playing with her relfection in the mirror, but a least she was quite. I think we're going back to the dream feeds.

On a side note: I talked to Kassidy's DR yesterday and she gave us the go ahead to start cereal. No veggies or fruit just yet; she said to wait until 6 mos before introducing them. Maybe the extra calories will help her sleep longer. Wishful thinking? ;)

[twinnyme]

Sorry the earlier bedtime didn't work for Kassidy! Guess not every kid's the same, huh?? :D

I sometimes want to sit in Becca's room in the morning before she awakes to see exactly how long she CAN entertain herself, I think it's longer than I realize because I don't wake until she cries. But I think she does a pretty good job of it - I just don't know it because I'm not in there when she's awake and calm; I just hear the explosion!

I have heard that extra calories help but I never really believed it. However, Becca has been on rice cereal since 5.5 months and is just now (7 months) getting proficient at it. For the last few weeks she's been eating 28-32 oz. a day plus a couple of solids meals. But she started STTN before then, so I'm not sure it really conincides. I do know that she ALWAYS has 8-8.5 oz. in her first morning bottle, and then the rest of her bottles are usually 5 or 6 oz.

ETA: I love the image of Kassidy with her nose to the mirror. Same here - she has a mirror in her crib in addition to the aquarium and kick-and-play piano (and mobile, but she can't activate that herself, of course!) and she is JUST starting to play with them more, which is great.

[karilynne_97]

If I had known that she would enjoy the mirror, or toys in her crib (safe ones, of course) so much I would've put some in there sooner!

I wish I could watch what Kassidy does too. I've thought about getting one of those video camera monitors, but thought it would be a better buy when she's older. DH, and his twin brother, escapted from their cribs when they were 2 and were found at 6am at the park by their neighbors (not only did they escape, but they managed to unlock the front door and open it), so if history repeats itself, we'll need the video monitor! :D

[twinnyme]

DH, and his twin brother, escapted from their cribs when they were 2 and were found at 6am at the park by their neighbors (not only did they escape, but they managed to unlock the front door and open it), so if history repeats itself, we'll need the video monitor! :D

Oh, my god. Yeah, I sat Becca up in her crib yesterday but then thought, what am I, crazy? I'm just teaching her to stand up sooner in her crib and be able to escape from it!! Btw, I'm a twin, too - have a twin sister! Boy, I guess when you have a mischievous playmate already built in, you could get into a lot of trouble!

[vjel]

anyone recently been thru or currently going thru the transition from 2 naps to 1? how did you go about the transition? and what is your dc's sleep schedule (what time s/he wakes, naps and bedtime)?

my dd is almost 15mos. and I am trying to transition her. Weissbluth discusses this in his book but I feel I need more insight from those who've been thru it. Her AM nap isn't disappearing per se, but her PM nap started so late (3-3:30) that if she woke at 4:30-5, she wouldn't go to bed til 9 or 10pm. When she would go to bed late, her AM naps would be long and I hate waking her EVERY day. I know Weissbluth suggests this to preserve the nap schedule, but my kid is NOT happy when she is awoken from a deep sleep! :rolleyes: And doing this on a regular basis can not be good for her. Plus she has been sleeping later (til 7-7:30am) which now throws off the AM nap. So I've been trying to get her to take one really good nap a day. The first couple days she did great, 3hr naps and bed at 8pm, no problem. Now it's a bit of a struggle. 2 naps don't go over well or aren't long enough for her to be well rested. She REFUSES to go to bed any earlier than 8pm so an earlier bedtime when she doesn't nap well is NOT an option. Its like she knows its not 8pm and will just scream and inevitably vomit. (btw, we do/have let her CIO but when she screams a certain way, we get her b/c its not "normal" for her). Any tips on how you transitioned would be great!

Also, I find during this transition time that lunch is really screwd up. She is usually so tired by lunch time (anywhere from 11-11:30) that she won't eat much. So usually lunch turns into a heavy snack and I'll feed her another heavy snack when she wakes. Was this a problem for you too?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! TIA!

[Franni]

For the first 4 months, we did Happiest Baby on the Block. Our swaddled little baby slept really well. However at around 4 months of age, she started not wanting to be swaddled and really resisting sleep. We went from 4 hours sleep stretches to 15 minutes.

so we ended up doing Weissbluth. Although I have always said that I will never CIO and being a former teacher, I always thought that it would be easy. Well, it was so not the case. We have done NCSS and everything else to no avail. Our last (and only viable) resort was to CIO and it worked. It has worked for us. Although there are still many times when I feel heartbroken from having to do it, I believe that there shouldn't be a condemnation of the method. DD became such a happier and more engaged baby when she was able to sleep.

[twinnyme]

* bump *

and a quick update: Becca has been STTN now going on two months (since July 1st) with a couple of exceptions/night-wakings due to teething and one week of the stomach flu. Yay!

[curlywig]

Congrats twinnyme! Go Becca!

Does anyone have any suggestions for a baby (4.5 mos) who wakes at about 3-3:30 am, and just wants to be up? We have been slowly reducing the ounces he gets overnight, and now he's only getting 2.5-3 oz or so overnight. So if he fusses for a bit, we get up and feed him, but then it takes at least an hour for him to go back to sleep. He'll stay in the crib and talk and chat, which then turns to fussing and crying.

I'm hesitant to put many toys in the crib since he isn't rolling over yet. Unlike what my mom suggests, I know a LATER bedtime isn't the answer. DS goes to sleep at about 6pm.

TIA.

[LeslieR]

I've been trying to read HSHHC, but it's difficult with a newborn. I have a question about the 1-2 hours of wakefulness. Does that mean the baby should only be awake that long before needing to nap again? And if so, what age does Weissbluth recommend this up to? TIA!

[Megande]

Yes, Leslie, that is what it means. Something I didn't know until later (it is on pg 232), he says that the interval of wakefulness *plus* soothing should be less than 2 hours. I know he has this rule until at least 4 months. I think that after that things change a little. (But DS is only 10 weeks, so I haven't gotten that far :)).

[LeslieR]

Thanks Megan! I consider myself to be a pretty intelligent person, but I find his book pretty difficult to read. It's so textbook like, ya know?

*off to go check out page 232!* :)

[Megande]

I know what you mean, Leslie. I tried to read it when I was pregnant and I didn't get very far at all! Now I swear by it. Here is what I did. I ignored everything and started at Chapter 5. It has a little section for every age group, and I just read the one that is currently applicable to DS. It is much easier to pay attention because it is short, and I know it applies to us, so it is more interesting.

Hope that helps!

[maren]

Hi Momma's, I'm hoping some of you experienced mom's can help us. I'm getting close to my wits end. Our baby girl Reilly is 4 + 1/2 weeks old and will not sleep unless someone is holding her. We're in sleep hell. Even if we wait until she's completely out to put her down, she always wakes up within a couple minutes. I really want her to learn to settle herself to sleep, but nothing seems to be working. We've tried putting her next to me in bed, in her bassinet, her bouncy seat, her car seat and her swing - none work.

We nurse her, swaddle her, give her a pacifier and wait until she's almost out to put her down. She'll start fussing within a few minutes and quickly erupts into full blown screams. While I'm not comfortable with CIO, esp. b/c she's so little, on the recommendation of our pediatrician last night, I tried to let her cry for about 2 minutes while I sat right there with my hand on her and my face close to hers, shushing her. This actually looked like it was starting to work, before my husband made a loud noise that woke her up and we couldn't get her down again. Then she was really crying for so long that I just let her fall asleep in my arms again, as I figured she'd had enough for one night.

If anyone has some tips they'd be willing to share I'd really love to hear them. I'm pretty much awake for most of the night and since I'm physically holding her when I am sleeping, I'm not getting any real decent sleep. Please help. :)

[jki]

maren: I think she's still a little young to be putting herself to sleep. Why don't you wait until she's in a DEEP sleep to put her down?

My DS was like that - I held him for every. single. nap until he was 4 months old. It sucked because he needed for me to be in motion. If I sat or stopped walking, he'd wake up. This also meant I was NEVER able to take a nap while he did. The sleep deprivation killed me. The good news is that after 4 months, he got a LOT better and after 6 months, I could just throw him into his crib wide awake and walk out.

For bedtime, we would spend up to an HOUR rocking DS until he fell asleep. Sometimes, we'd put him down, he'd wake up and then we'd spend ANOTHER hour rocking.

Have you tried music? We have a CD that we play for DD and DS and they both associate that music with bedtime. We have different CDs for nap and bed.

Do you have a consistent bedtime routine?

Have you tried letting her sleep on your chest? That's what I do with DD and it's the only way I can get a nap in. This way, I can also soothe her before she wakes up completely.

If the pacifier falls out, try a bigger one.

Have you tried letting her fuss it out again? I never did that with DS and I regret it. DD gets to fuss it out on her own (because I am busy changing DS's diaper or something like that) and she often falls asleep on her own.

That's all I can think of for now. Hang in there. It will get better.

LeslieR - The 1-2 hours of wakefulness rule applies until they are quite old. DS is 14 months old now and even at 10 months, he could barely stay awake for 2+ hours in the morning. And this was after 12 hours of sleep! After his midmorning nap, he could usually stay awake longer, but I'd never let him stay up more than 3-4 hours.

[LeslieR]

jki, thanks for posting that. Do the naps then become shorter as they get older? Luke has been catnapping the past couple days and it's driving me crazy. It seems like all I do is change him, feed him, try to get him to sleep if he didn't fall asleep at the breast, repeat. :rolleyes:

[karilynne_97]

Hi maren-

I would HIGHLY suggest getting "The Happiest Baby on the Block" by Dr. Harvey Karp. It's all about the 5 S's:

Swaddling
Swinging
Shhhhh'ing (white noise)
Side-lying
Sucking

Anyways, works wonders!!! If you can, try getting the DVD rather than the book. It's easier to understand the method if you can "see" it rather than trying to "imagine" it when reading the book.

[twinnyme]

We're in sleep hell. Even if we wait until she's completely out to put her down, she always wakes up within a couple minutes. I really want her to learn to settle herself to sleep, but nothing seems to be working. We've tried putting her next to me in bed, in her bassinet, her bouncy seat, her car seat and her swing - none work.

Maren - I'm so sorry you're going through this. We had the same problem. It is tough, isn't it? DD was the same way - and also like LeslieR's DS, she also catnapped. It's a tough combination. The only thing I can say is that time does make it better and it is good to help her learn to soothe herself but maybe not yet? It's too bad that the motion things aren't working for you - luckily, they did for us, and when we were desperate enough, she'd sleep in the swing, the bouncy seat (she took ALL her naps in one of those when I was still on leave). Once we even swaddled her, put her in the bouncy seat, and when she fell asleep, moved the whole thing to the crib (my mother's suggestion).

We also did the shhinggg thing and used white noise a lot. A few times I got her to sleep on her changing table (when she was very young and couldn't move) by running the hairdryer. Yes, a big use of electricity but worth it for my sanity, and then I found a white noise CD that has recordings of things like the hairdryer, vacuum cleaner, etc., which worked as well (and was less expensive than running the hairdryer for an hour at a time!). We also have Sleep Sheep (http://www.dreamtimebaby.com/slshbyclb.html) , which worked very well, too (it's still on her crib but we don't use it anymore).

Also, I second the recommendation of the Karp book. I read both that and Weissbluth and used the applicable parts for our situation. In fact, I'm back about our current situation:

After STTN for 2 months straight (thank god), DD has now begun to wake up at night again, and it's getting tough. But we're thinking it may be a growth spurt, too. Of course, I've read somewhere (I think it may have been Weissbluth; I forgot to check last night and now I'm at work) that sometimes people start making excuses for when their child begins to have sleep problems – oh, it’s just a growth spurt. Let’s see, the history: We spent the weekend at the IL’s and thought we could go off routine slightly (probably our biggest mistake - which we take full responsibility for). She still took naps (which are still sporadic) but on both Friday and Saturday nights she slept 8 to 6 (usual sleep time is 6/7 to 5/6). We got home Sunday and she’s been up every night since, first at 3 a.m., then 2 a.m., again at 3 a.m. (was her first day back at daycare which we were hoping would help), and last night went to bed at 6:45, woke at 9:40 and ate 7 oz., woke at 4:20 and ate 7 oz (in 9 minutes, which is a record for her), then slept again until about 6:30. She ate a total of 34 oz. yesterday plus 2.5 jars of baby food – which, again, is a record for her. If it is a growth spurt, we’re okay with that, because she’s actually only at the 10% in weight and we want her to gain more – but not at the risk of sleep deprivation to her and to us again. Daycare is working on getting her to take more naps during the day (sometimes she takes one there, sometimes two, sometimes three – all over the board; same when I’m home with her Friday through Monday) and also maybe to eat bigger bottles (I gave bottles of 8 oz. today instead of the usual 6 oz.). My theory is that “sleep begets sleep” (as Weissbluth says and as has worked for us in the past). I am really concerned about her breaking the STTN habit, and frankly, don’t want to go back to “sleep hell” (as Maren so aptly put it).

All of you ladies have been SO helpful in the past. Any thoughts?

One other thing…. She CAN hold her bottle now (finally) and 90% of the time does. But she still likes to be in our arms. She did drink her bottle once this weekend while laying in her carriage, but when I’ve tried to put her on the floor on the boppy to hold it and drink it on her own (2 or 3 times now), she’s screamed each time. So the night wakings COULD still be a comfort thing, even though she is eating so much and so quickly.

TIA, as always!

[catmom]

Hi, all. Just need some reassurance here. DD is 5.5 (almost 6) months old, and sleeps great at night. The problem is, she is an awful napper. Sometimes she goes 12 hours with no nap! Frequently what happens is that I can get her to sleep nursing, but when I try to pick her up and put her in her crib, she wakes up and that's the end of that. I simply cannot put her in her crib awake during the day, it just does not work. At bedtime, I can occasionally put her down awake if she's really, really tired. The problem is, because she's not napping her bedtime keeps getting earlier and earlier, and her wake-up time keeps getting earlier and earlier. Currently she is going to bed between 4:30-5:30 and waking up 12 hours later. Earlier, she was going to bed at 6:00-6:30, which was much better, but now that the naps have gotten so bad (and they weren't great before) she just can't stay up that late. I don't even want to know when she's going to be getting up once daylight savings time ends! I think the only solution is for her to start napping better, but I don't know what to do. I have read all the sleep books, but mostly they offer advice on how to get the baby to fall asleep without a prop. I can't get her to fall asleep WITH a prop! Is it just going to be like this until she's 5? The lack of routine is killing me, and I need a break during the day every once in a while!

[twinnyme]

Hi catmom. I don't know about routine, but I can give you some reassurance. Becca was a catnapper and also a sporadic napper. While she still naps sporadically (and by that I mean, whenever she feels like it), her naps have gotten much longer. Sometimes she takes two 2-hour naps. But I have to be pretty much at home all day in order to coax her into the naps(on Mondays and Fridays, when I'm home with her; as I said below, at daycare, she's all over the board, though from the beginning, they have been excellent in getting her to sleep for naps - she'd NEVER napped in her crib until she started daycare). And also sometimes I try too early (within the 2+ hours window) and she just refuses to go down but then two hours later she'll take a 2-hour nap. So I try not to get frustrated when she doesn't go to nap right away (doesn't always work) and just hope she will eventually. I also hope to insitute more of a regular nap schedule (e.g. she naps at 9 and 1) but so far, it seems to have eluded us! DD will be 8 months next week, and I'd say her naps didn't stabilize until around your DD's age. Now that she's FINALLY napping (thank god), our next step is to try to create a consistent nap schedule, time-wise. Now if only we could get her back on her fabulous night-time routine!!! :confused:

[Cosmogirl]

I have a little question here.

My son is just about 2 months old. I can see that he is getting into a pattern type of sleep now. I nurse him at around 8-9, it takes about an hour-1 1/2 hour. That is his "fussy" period. Then he sleeps for about 4 hours. He wakes up, but most of the time, he doesn't scream, but just cry a little, and fusses in his bed. I don't wait for him to cry like a madman, I feed him. It takes about 30 minutes, and he falls back to sleep again.
Then he sleeps for about 3 hours, and wakes up at about 6-7 hours am. I feed him again, and then he sleeps again until around 9-10 (depending at what time he woke up...)
So reading W. today, I saw that with a easy baby you can try to start working on a pattern sleep with nap and night sleep. But reading p 221 made me wonder...
This girl is 2 months old. At day 63, she she woke up at 3am and fell asleep until 8:30.(and I don,t think the mom nursed her...) And then at day 64 she slept form 8:30 to 5. So starting at those time, she stopped nursing during the night??? When my boy wakes up at night, is it really because he is hungry??? Or he is just not able to fall back asleep on his own??

My other qurstion is: when I put him to bed during the day, how long should he nap?? He just napped for 45 mintues, is it enough? If not, what should I do, leave him there, and try to soothe him back to sleep??

Thanks girls for your help!

[Cosmogirl]

Ok, I guess i'm not done with the questions!

Finally, he slept 2:15! When I was writing my previous post, he was whimpering, and I thought he was going to wake up. But I deciede to wait a bit, and he fell asleep on his own. Around 2:45 pm he started whimpering again, this time a little louder then the previous time. So I thought he was awake. I think I made a mstake, and that is what is leading me to my other question.

-How do you know he is really awake, rather then just in the supercial sleep where they whimp sometimes?? I went in too early, and he was still tired, and not really ready to be awaken. :( I guess i'm learning too. SO I feed him and put him back to bed. But I realise that I don,t know when to go!

-W. talkes about 2 methods about how to soothe them to sleep. Method A and B. I'm doing method A. But when he screams and cries after I put him in bed, what am I supposed to do?? I think he is still too little to CIO, but I want to start being consistent with my soothing method. So I don,t now how to react at those times...

Thanks again for your help! :D

[Megande]

Cosmogirl - A lot of this sleep stuff is personal preference of the parent and also what works for one baby really may not work for another. But I'll tell you what we do, and you can see if any of it works for William!

When DS was around your son's age (about a month ago), he would wake up like William does and fuss a little, but not full out cry. I would lay in bed and listen to him for a few minutes to see if he was going to settle himself back to sleep. If he just kept fussing, I'd leave him and he would usually go back to sleep. If he progressed to full on crying, I'd go in and feed him. I'm comfortable with letting him fuss a little, and it sounds like you are too, so maybe you could try waiting a little while (probably no more than 10 minutes) and see if he will go back to sleep. It worked very well for us. Does William sleep in your room? I had to move Dean into his crib in his own room before either of us started getting really good sleep.

With naps, W. says that it they may not get into a consistent pattern until around 4 months or so. Sometimes they sleep for 45 minutes, other times they sleep for 3 hours. It is really hard to know when to go in and get them. I'd love a great answer for that myself! I usually get Dean up if he really starts crying hard. Sometimes he is still tired, so when he shows me one of his sleepy signs, I just soothe him and put him down again.

We are trying to do method A as well. You have to tailor it a little, both to the level of crying/fussing that you are comfortable with, and to the age of your baby. I will usually nurse Dean and then soothe him for a specified amount of time (5 to 10 minutes). I'll put him down in his crib after that. He will usually start to fuss or cry, and I'll just put my hand on his chest and shush him, or sing him a song. Often he will settle down after that. You can try and see if your son has the skills to soothe himself. He may not have developed them yet. Weisbluth says that you should just try it out, and if it doesn't work yet, come back to it in a few weeks.

I hope I was at least a little helpful! Good luck!

[Cosmogirl]

Thanks Megan , looks like we are using similar methods! When you started trying W's method about a month ago, did it work right away?? Or did you had to wait and start again later??

William is not able yet to soothe himself to sleep, he starts fussing, and then instead of falling asleep, he gets cranked up. But I thought this was something that he was going to learn rather that something that he'll be able to do evenutally? He is going to wake up once morning, with the ability to soothe himslef?(like he did with nursing? He started nursing well at 6 weeks!)
In the meanwhile, what I do is I feed him, and then soothe him for 5 mintues, and then put him to bed. WHen he is drowsy enough, he falls into agitated sleep, and then deep sleep. But sometimes like this morning, for a reason I don't understand, it doesn't work. I try to go back and just shhh him, and put my hand on him, but it just doesn't work. So what should I do form there? Pick him up and retry later on, or just wait another week and try then??

I was not really expecting to have him on a nap schedule yet, but I just wanted to get him used to sleep in his bed for nap, and have a better rest instead of him sleeping anywhere, like in his bouncy in a motion sleep....like right now :(

[Cosmogirl]

BUMP because I'd really aprreciate your input, and need your help
HE.DOES.NOT.WANT. to nap in his crib.

[maren]

Hey Val - I have Reilly in her bouncy seat in her crib right now - trying to get her used to it.

I'm no expert (our baby just in the last few nights started sleeping better and more reliably) so take what I say with a grain of salt... I'm doing the same things as you. When the shhsing and my hand on her doesn't work, I pick her up and settle her down a bit and then try to put her down w/o being totally asleep once more. If she still doesn't go to sleep, I give up and try again the next time she goes down. We usually try to get her to fall asleep on her own at least once every time she goes down to sleep. Exceptions are the middle of the night when she's wide awake and my husband has to work in the morning. Those times I usually let her just sleep on me so we can all get some sleep, but that's also after she's already gone to sleep by herself earlier in the night. Hopefully. :)


I'm in the middle of W.'s book right now so I don't know if the above jives with what he says to do exactly but it's really been working for us this last week. That and doing my best to make sure she gets enough sleep during the day. I hope the sleep issues get a lot better for you quickly! And I love your location btw - My baby's the exact same way... :rolleyes:

[twinnyme]

Cosmogirl - if it makes you feel any better, DD NEVER napped in her crib for the first three months of her life - not until she started daycare, and then they were able to get her to nap in her crib, no problem whatsoever. They say she never cries going into her crib at daycare.... Even after that, she still barely napped in her crib on the weekends. She's now almost 8 months, and probably only for the last month or two has she napped in her crib. Before that, it was the bouncy seat, the carseat, the stroller, everything BUT the crib. I don't know if that makes you feel better, but at least William's not the only one to not nap in his crib!

ETA: DD STTN last night spontaneously after a week of waking for one feeding per night. She slept 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. which we now think is her new schedule (time to get enough formula/solids in her). Before, it was 6/7 to 5/6. This new schedule will take some getting used to (I try to work at home some in the evenings....)

[Cosmogirl]

I have Reilly in her bouncy seat in her crib right now - trying to get her used to it.
What a neat idea!
I just decided that I would at least put the bouncey seat in his room. He will at least learn to be in the room...next we'll maybe be able to upgrade to the crib :rolleyes: But I love your idea!

If she still doesn't go to sleep, I give up and try again the next time she goes down.
So you basically try twice, and oterwise, you put her to sleep somewhere else that she will sleep??? Maybe it would be a better idea then trying too hard and getting them overtired!

[Cosmogirl]

Thanks twinnyme it does make me feel a little better. But what I'm scared about is that the motionless sleep is better...whereas in his bouncy, he likes it when it vibrates! :rolleyes:

[maren]

Yep, I usually give it a couple tries and if it doesn't work I let her sleep on me - her current spot of choice :rolleyes:. My husband tried over and over one night and let's just say that didn't go so well. ;)

[Megande]

When we started doing W's method for night sleep, it worked well within a week or so. Dean started sleeping for 12 hours at night and waking only once to eat. It probably took 2 weeks of putting him down in his crib awake before he would settle down fairly quickly. Now when I put him down, he cries for about 20 seconds and then settles down. Even if he is fussy now, he will lay by himself quietly until he puts himself to sleep (well, most times). If it seems like it isn't going to work for that particular nap, I don't push it.

If your DS likes to go to sleep in motion, W. says that it is no big deal, just turn off the motion after they go to sleep. You don't even have to move them. If your son likes to sleep in his swing, for example, that is fine, just let the swing stop after he goes to sleep.

Do you swaddle your DS? I couldn't get Dean to sleep alone for more than a few minutes without being swaddled. I highly recommend the amazing miracle blanket.

[twinnyme]

Thanks twinnyme it does make me feel a little better. But what I'm scared about is that the motionless sleep is better...whereas in his bouncy, he likes it when it vibrates! :rolleyes:

Good point, Cosmogirl - but your son is still pretty young yet, right? Like megande, I also stopped motion sleep after a while - after reading Weissbluth. If she fell asleep in the swing or bouncy seat, I'd turn it off and (luckily) she usually still stayed asleep. Of course, yesterday, she fell asleep in the car! Oh, well, I can't always have her do motionless sleep!

DD has stopped waking at night, spontaneously. After waking once a night to eat for a week (from last Sunday through this Saturday night) she has now slept two nights through again, thank god. Sunday she slept 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. and last night she slept 8 p.m. to 5 a.m. We are SOOO glad. Maybe it WAS just a growth spurt as DH thought.... In any case, we're thanking our lucky stars again and hoping it lasts. It does seem as though she has shifted from her 6/7 p.m. to 5/6 a.m. routine to this one. But then she also seems to regularly sleep naps from 7:45/8 a.m. to 9:30/10 a.m. and 12-2 p.m. plus usually a 1/2 hour or hour nap around 4 p.m. So she's still getting plenty of sleep; I just have to adjust my routines to her now. And the timing couldn't be better; we're heading to NYC again this weekend for our nephew's 2nd birthday and DD hasn't seen that side of the family (my side) since the 4th of July so her going to bed at 8 p.m. is perfect for our visit. On our last trip, we rushed her to bed at 6 p.m. and everyone seemed upset by that (but we stuck to our guns).

Did anyone's DC shift their sleep schedule like DD's after a while? I'm vaguely worried that going to bed later will start her becoming sleep deprived over the long term but maybe it's just a normal shift. (I looked in Weissbluth but couldn't find much about this - he recommends a bedtime of 6-8 p.m. and says not to go to your child before 6 a.m. even if they cry because they'll learn to get up earlier and earlier... but I've never been able to do that part.)

[Cosmogirl]

Good morning ladies! Thanks for your replies!

I don't know wheter to be happy this morning, or frustrated! After a day of not wanting to nap, he fell asleep last night after his 6 o'clock feeding, and slept until 9. Then the feeding took 1/2 hour, and at 9:30 he was sleeping again. Slept though until 2 where he ate again. Usually, the night feeding is really short, but I guess he had slept so much, he fussed for 1 hour after I was done. I finally came to pick him up again, and as soon as he got in my arms, his body relaxed, and he fell asleep. I think I might have gone maybe a second too early, maybe he would have fallen alssep on his own. :( He slept again until 6:30, then ate again, and went to bed again until 9:30. After that I don,t think he was ready to go to bad, although, he looked a bit tired still. I putted him in his bouncey, and he fell asleep. I tried to put him in his bed, but just after he hit the bed, he woke up. I tried another time, but we were close to 2 hours of wakefulness, so I brought him back to his bouncy, fell immedialty asleep :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The thing though is last night at the 9:30 sleep time, he fell asleep on HIS OWN! So he IS able to. But during the day NOPE! :rolleyes:

Megan Looks like you did the exact same thing I'm trying to do. Will sleeps in his room, and we do swaddle him. But since he moves so much priore to falling asleep, the swadeling don't work for long...
As I said, he did fall asleep on his own once last night, and maybe it would have worked during the night too, but I blew it. :( But during the day, even when he is sleeping, as soon as he hits the crib, nope!
When we started doing W's method for night sleep, it worked well within a week or so. I would lay in bed and listen to him for a few minutes to see if he was going to settle himself back to sleep. If he just kept fussing, I'd leave him and he would usually go back to sleep. If he progressed to full on crying, I'd go in and feed him.
Is that what you started with? Did you feed him because it was time, or just because it is part of your soothing process?? I'm always puzzled with the feeding shedule, because he eats evry 3 hours, but has got to go down every at least 2 hours...He falls asleep well when both arrives at the same time!!!
Dean started sleeping for 12 hours at night and waking only once to eat.
Will only wakes up once usually around 2. The he wakes up at 6-7. Whenyou say he slept 12 hours, you mean, form let's say 10pm -10am with waking up only once??
Thanks for you hep, I really feel we are using the same methods, and you are one step further away from me

twinnyme I'd turn it off and (luckily) she usually still stayed asleep
Not always his case...But I guess he'd better sleep in motion then not at all... :(

[maren]

Megan - How old was Dean the week you started using Weisbluth's method?

Val - Last night actually sounds like it wasn't to awful for you. The fact that he fell asleep on his own once is huge.

Reilly did not have a good night at all. She had been fussy pretty much all day. Adam gave her her bottle at 10pm and she was up at 12:30. Ugh. Usually we get at least 4 hours b/c of the bottle. After that she was up at 2, 3:30 and 4:30 and never had a deep sleep at all after that. Did I mention that she spent the entire night on my chest on the couch? Sometimes she just refuses to fall asleep anywhere else. She's still so little (5 weeks) I don't *think* I'm causing any unbreakable habits by letting her do that. In the middle of the night, w/ my husband having to get up for work at 6, I just don't have the energy to sit alone and try to get her to sleep by herself multiple times during the night. Since she wakes up to eat twice, and takes at least a 1/2 hour each time, I won't get any sleep.

What do you ladies think? Is letting her sleep on me ok for a while, or should I stop letting her do that and really try to get her down in her boucy seat every time she wakes up during the night?

[jki]

What do you ladies think? Is letting her sleep on me ok for a while, or should I stop letting her do that and really try to get her down in her boucy seat every time she wakes up during the night?

I think it's fine. DS was slept in his Bjorn for literally almost EVERY nap until he was 4 months old. By 6 months, I could toss him into his crib awake and he would go to sleep on his own.

Maren, your DD is still sooo young. My DD is 9 weeks old and sometimes she sleeps in her pack n play, sometimes she sleeps on me and sometimes she sleeps in her crib. "They" say you can't develop bad habits until the baby is 3 months old. I think the most important thing at her age is to sleep as much as possible so that she develops melatonin.

[Megande]

Did you feed him because it was time, or just because it is part of your soothing process??

I don't have a feeding schedule with Dean at all. The great thing about BFing is that you can't overfeed a BF baby. I feed him when he wakes up from a nap and often before he goes down for a nap just to soothe him. I always feed him before putting him down for the night.

When you say he slept 12 hours, you mean, form let's say 10pm -10am with waking up only once??
Yes. He usually goes to bed between 7:30 and 8:30 pm and wakes up between 7:30 and 9 am. He usually wakes up at around 4, eats and goes back to sleep.

Have you tried the amazing miracle blanket? That worked for us when no other swaddle would. It is the best $30 I have ever spent. We also invested in a white noise machine. He sleeps *so* much better with it on.

Maren - Dean has been sleeping in his crib for naps and nighttime since he was a month old. We started being a little stricter with sleeping at around 7 or 8 weeks, but mostly because it worked for us. Dean seemed to take to sleeping alone. But I really don't think you should worry about letting your DD sleep on you from time to time. A well rested family is really the main goal. I think that you just need to do whatever gets you and your family the most sleep. There is plenty of time to worry about sleep habits later. The only reason that we started so early is because Dean seemed to sleep better in his crib and showed signs of willingness to fall asleep on his own.

[Candy]

HELP, I'm exhausted!

DD is 7 months old. We've been following Weissbluth since she was 5 months old. Since she is a post colic baby, it took a LONG time, but she WAS sleeping great. She was only waking one time between 1-4AM, but would go back to sleep until anywhere between 6-7:30AM. :)

She was going down any where between 6-7:30PM depending on her nap schedule. She was taking 3 naps per day, but a few weeks ago dropped a nap and is usually taking 2 naps now. I went back to read the section on night waking, and Dr. W says it's normally due to either being over tired or over stimulated.

The past 2 night she's been waking every 1-3 hours. Being the wuss that I am, I broke down 2 night ago and got her after just 3 hours to give her teethng tablets and nursed her down again. Big mistake! She continued to wake up all night. I know Dr. W says teething won't cause night waking. That's when I re-read the section on night wakings, 1am when she woke up. I needed reassurance.

Last night I was much stronger, but not strong enough. She went down at 7:30PM, and woke up at 1:15AM for a feeding. She went right back down, than woke up again around 3:45AM. I "accidently" went to her. I was so tired and didn't realize it had only been 2.5 hours. I nursed her, than put her back in the crib, but this time she was still awake. I let her cry for 2 hours! The first hour was more whining & wimpering, but the second hour she was hysterical. I ended up getting her out of the crib and laid down on the couch to nurse her. I had fallen asleep and woke up to DH watching us sleep at 8AM.

Do I just need to let her cry indefinitely no matter what? I'm really doubting myself and I'm exhausted! When she's crying in the crib, I'm lying in my bed awake. DH is sound asleep though. :rolleyes:

Any advise? TIA!

Candy

[Franni]

Help I am in almost the same situation as Candy. DD was ST when she was 5 months and everything was going superbly until she went to daycare. In daycare she got a whole slew of illnesses. She has been so sick and have been on all kinds of meds that all the training went out the window.

Now that she is finally well, we really need to do something. She has been waking up every 2 hours and she is almost 1 year old already.

[curlywig]

Wondering if anyone can give me some advice....DS is 5+ mos old (FF FWIW). He's a big guy at about 18 lbs. He takes 2-3 good naps during the day and about 10 at night. We have a whole bedtime routine, and he falls asleep right away starting at about 6-6:30pm. He no longer eats during the night. The problem is that he wakes sometime between 3-4am "crying." I say "crying" because he'll squawk and jabber, then he does this kinda fake crying. We'll go check on him, and the second he sees us he'll start laughing and want to play. BTW, we don't make eye contact or turn on lights.

If we just leave him alone, he'll accelerate the "crying" for quite a while. I have no problem getting up as early as 5am with him, or earlier if I really think he's hungry. But, his behavior is leading me to believe he's not hungry, he's bored.

Any advice?

[cc8]

subscribing

[karilynne_97]

Gosh ladies, I wish I could help, but I'm still new at this CIO thing.

curlywig-
According to the book, you're not supposed to go to them before 6am (mommies, pls correct me if I'm wrong), so I would suggest just letting DS fuss/cry till he falls back to sleep, unless the crying becomes hysterical (you know your baby's cries better than anyone else). We've done this a few times; we were sure DD wasn't hungry (had already had her nighttime feeding) and was dry, so we let her cry. She eventually fell back to sleep.

My question:
Normally DD falls asleep for the night with her last bottle @ 6:30pm, and will awake anywhere from 12-2am for another feeding, no problem because she's still in that age frame where she'll have 1-2 night feedings (per the book). On the nights where she doesn't fall asleep eating, we give her kisses and hugs and put her to bed to CIO. Never fails: the nights where she CIO, she sleeps THE WHOLE NIGHT without waking once. Anyone else's child do this? Should I just let her CIO every night?

[Mrs.Chappy]

hi
i have a 3 1/2 month boy. He seems to enjoy being swaddled lately (he falls asleep real fast). we were using the swaddle me by kiddopotamus but i think its too small. do you think its worth it for me to invest in the miracle blanet? he is already 13 pounds and probably 23 inches by now..is their a size limit? i know the manufacturer recommends it for children up to 6 months.

[mommycal]

Trying to find this for a friend. Isn't there a site for Healthy sleep habits, happy baby? TIA for your help

[cynder]

Mrs Chappy We have the Miracle Blanket and DS is over 13 lbs and it was starting to be too small for him. I don't think there is a size limit per se but DS was definitely starting to bust out of it. We started weaning him from it this week with CIO and so far it hasn't been too bad.

I loved the Miracle Blanket and DH could get DS to sleep in under 10 secs. but we decided it was time for him to learn to sleep on his own.

karilynne_97 I am so new to this whole thing but we let him CIO it out. DS is 4 months and our ped confirmed that he can sleep for 6-8 hours with out feeding. Right now DS sleeps from 8-5:30 with no feeds.

[Candy]

According to the book, you're not supposed to go to them before 6am

My understanding is that until 9 months of age, some babies still receive night time feedings. I re-read the section about 5 times to make sure.

DD is waking up 2 x's per night and she's 7 months. I'm starting to think it's out of habit though. I think starting tonight I will eliminate 1 of the feedings and only go to her once.

[celina]

At what age do you start sleep training?

[maggieb]

Most peds and sleep area experts don't reccomend it until 4-6 months. However, Weissbluth does have some tips on reading your baby's cues to be able to put them down before they get overtired. Marisa is just now 12 weeks old and I am still swaddling, rocking, nursing to get her to sleep and that's OK.

I don't know how old your baby is, but at about 6 weeks is when babies typically begin to organize night sleep and at about 4 months begin to organize day sleep.

I know Marisa has been pretty textbook so far with sleep and at 6 weeks she was getting up 2-3 times to nurse at night. Now at 12 weeks, she's up 1-2 times.

[cc8]

Bump!

[LeslieR]

I still haven't gotten a chance to read through HSHHC:rolleyes:, but I have a question I hope someone who has can help me with! The past two nights Luke has gone to sleep at around 7:45 and slept until 3am, back to sleep and up again at around 5:30am. Both days I have gotten him back to sleep after nursing him at 5:30, but once I put him in the crib he woke up. 5:30 is waaaay too early for me to be up for the day. What can I do to get him to sleep later? I know Weissbluth recommends the earlier bedtime for kids his age, but does that equal an early waking time like this? If I keep him up later at night, will he sleep later or will it backfire in my face? I've been going to bed earlier myself to combat the early waking (and mostly in case he doesn't sleep well because we have had some doozy nights where he has been up 4+ times a night:rolleyes: ), but no matter how early I go to bed, I am still not ready to face the day at 5:30am!!! Help!

[Cosmogirl]

Leslie
It is going to backfire in your face. That is W. first principle. You have to have an earlier bedtime, sleeps beget sleeps. No, it isn,t because you put him to bed later that he'll sleep later, he'll be overtired, and not sleep as much. Time to bring bedtime earlier sweety!
William decided for the last 3 days to push his bedtime earlier. Now it is 18:30, and this morning, he slept until 7:30.
He usually wake up ealier in the morning the night where we had a hard time putting him to bed...

[LeslieR]

Thanks Val! Sooooo, if I put him to bed even earlier, will he then sleep later?

[jki]

What can I do to get him to sleep later? I know Weissbluth recommends the earlier bedtime for kids his age, but does that equal an early waking time like this?
I think a 5:30am wakeup time is common - but Weissbluth says that if you can get them back down, it is a continuation of nighttime sleep. IIRC, there's not much you can do to get him to sleep later - their biological clocks tells them to when to wake up.

If I keep him up later at night, will he sleep later or will it backfire in my face?
It will absolutely backfire. For example, on Sunday night, DD (she is almost 4 mos) went to bed at 9pm - was up at 5am. Last night, DD went to bed at 7pm - she was up at 6am this morning. Remember, sleep begets sleep and you should never allow your child to become overtired. By keeping him up later, you potentially make him overtired.

Until DS can start sleeping later, your best bet is to try to nap. Or maybe your husband can get up with him in the morning?
HTH!

[jki]

I totally cross posted with Cosmogirl!

[LeslieR]

Thanks jki! Maybe I'll aim for a 7pm bedtime tonight and hope for him to sleep later. Ironically he has been pretty much napping all morning today. (I'm too thickheaded to realize that I should take a nap, too.:rolleyes: )

[Cosmogirl]

Yeap Leslie, the ealier you put him to bed, the "later" he'll wake up. But like JKI said, for a while, 5:30 might be his wake up hour...for a little while. When he'll be older, you won't go before 6, but for now, you need to go when he asks.
But I would DEF try to go earlier tonight. It might not work the first time, depends on how well rested Luke is...

[jki]

William decided for the last 3 days to push his bedtime earlier. Now it is 18:30, and this morning, he slept until 7:30.

WOW! :eek: That is 13 hours! I am so jealous!!

[LeslieR]

I feel like such a zombie today and I am kicking myself that I have not been on the couch napping right along with him. If I could just get him to sleep until 8, that would be so much better. There have been days where I have gone to get him and brought him into bed with me and we will nurse and nap and nurse and nap until 10 or so, but he won't always do this (tried it this morning-no dice).

[CBMarie]

Don't expect the earlier bedtime to work immediately - it might take a few weeks for his system to get used to the new bedtime. Also, keep in mind that some babies do wake up early until their sleep is completely organized - for us "organized" meant that Declan consolidated all his naps in to one longer nap in the afternoon. It didn't happen until he was about 18 months old. Before that he was waking up at 5 or 5:30, napping at 9, and then again at 12 or 1.