Sleep Teaching/Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child [Archive] - Page 4

Wrighty26

12-14-2006, 05:18 PM

lilo - I'm with Izzy-- don't wake him! As long as he has some alert time during the day (especially in the PM), he will sleep at night.

Also- as far as getting him to go to sleep, at his age I would try to get him to go to sleep after an hour (to an hour and a half) of being awake. My son is 5 months and just at the point where he can stay up for 2 hours. Once they start crying/acting fussy babies are actually overtired.

Have you noticed if you son rubs his eyes, yawns, gets really droopy, or does anything repetitive? I started to realize he was tired when he would take his pacifier, but he wasn't hungry - and it was always WAY before I thought it would be.

Once you start reading his cues you'll find that window and it will get a little easier to get him to sleep. At first I tried not to feed him at nap time because I didn't want him to associate sleep with food - but then I gave that up and he still doesn't make the association. What helps him also is his pacifier and rocking-- and a very dark room.

lilo

12-15-2006, 06:00 AM

Thanks for all the advice Wrighty26! Many times after he's taken a nap, he's wide awake (content, not crying) and in no way ready to go back down after an hour or 1.5 hours. So if I let him sleep however long he wants for a nap and then he's still awake after an hour and doesn't show any tired signs (he does give some big yawns now and then though), should I just work towards putting him down then with the rocking and pacifer?

e&d

12-19-2006, 06:14 PM

HELP!! I apologize in advance for this novel. I really need help! Please offer any advice possible...

Can anyone here tell me if there is a quicker, easier-to-read, or condensed version of Weissbluth out there somewhere? My husband is driving me crazy. He won't read the book, but he won't listen to me either. :rolleyes:

I am going to try to be brief. Here is our deal:

Nighttime problem: Frequent night-waking and nursing
Leo has never slept through the night. Not even close. He is now 13 months. Our pattern from about 2-3 months on has been that we put him to bed in his crib, then bring him to our bed at his 10ish nightwaking. Until we intervened 2 weeks ago, he was nursing anywhere from 3-10 times per night. Aaaah!!

For various reasons I let him keep going. (He would always go back to sleep immediately after nursing.) We decided we had to cut the night nursing out and then transition him into his own bed for the whole night. He is no longer nursing through the night. He often gets a feeding around 10 or so, and then again around 7:00. No issues there.

So currently I am sleeping the guest room, while my husband brings him to bed as usual and then pops his paci back in when he wakes up. He will go back to sleep immediately when he gets the paci back, but is still up numerous times during the night.

We need to get him in the crib all night. He got a cold on Saturday, so we feel guilty making this change while he's sick. But when he's well, look out! :p

My question is: how can we handle the frequent nightwakings once he is in the crib? I don't want to do full-scale CIO if possible. Do we go in every time he cries? Help!

Daytime problem: Nap schedule/length
Ok. Other problem. We got off track in the nap dept. and I am slowly getting him back to 2 a day. I won't bore you with the history but suffice it to say his naps were never great. Very brief. I finally got him on a fantastic morning nap -- sometimes as long as 2 hours -- but he wouldn't do one in the afternoon.

So after re-reading Weissbluth, I think he is overtired from the nightwakings (and possibly a too-late bedtime) and compensating in the long morning nap. Then that nap is going too late for him to be ready for an afternoon nap, and he is overtired, won't go down easily at night...and the whole thing continues.

I am aggressively working on getting him back to the 9:00 and 1:00 naps. I know he needs 2 naps a day right now. But it's hard and he is so inconsistent!! (Today he napped twice but only 35 mins each time.)

Bedtime problem
I work in the evenings, so my husband is responsible for bedtimes. He was sticking to putting him down on a 7:30 schedule, even if he was tired earlier or later. (My husband also gets up with him in the mornings, and he felt that if he went to bed much earlier, he'd be up at 5:00 or whatever.)

I am trying to convince my husband that Leo must go to bed earlier. He has a cold right now and that is throwing everything off, but in any case he needs MORE sleep than less! But for the last two nights, I come home and find that he has gone to sleep around 7:00, even though I told him to put him down by 6:00. :mad:

I really feel at this point that the earlier bedtime is the key. (Plus dealing with the nightwakings effectively.) Am I correct?

And, if I am correct, any suggestions on something I can get my husband to read that isn't a whole book? The action plans for exhausted parents don't really sum up all the points I need. (The fact that he won't read the book annoys me to no end, but that's a whole other subject.) Perhaps I need to highlight certain passages, I don't know...:confused:

Another part of my problem with the bedtime routine: my husband says there is nothing wrong with loud crazy play before bed because it "tires him out." When I tell him that is not the case, he rolls his eyes and says everyone has a different theory. To some extent I know where he's coming from, but I have yet to read a sleep book that doesn't advocate quiet time before bed and a good bedtime routine!

Every single night, Leo cries hysterically while we change his diaper and put on his pajamas. He is exhausted. This is not normal, right?

Thank you for reading this, and for any help you can offer!!

Wrighty26

12-19-2006, 06:51 PM

lilo - I'm so sorry! I just saw that you posted.

Honestly, it's so tough at that age to determine when they are sleepy. Some babies are just SOOO alert that they don't want to nap. My son was an easy baby, and by all means I still struggled to get him to nap. There is really no right or wrong -- just as long as you are *trying* to get him to nap and reading his cues. The whole nap struggle really did pay off though, and my guy is a sleeper-- I'm sure I can't take full credit, but being obsessed about sleep has helped me and my boy get a lot more sleep! I found that it wasn't until 3-4 months that I could really do anything about, so for now just go with the flow. If after 1-2 hours you feed him and he goes to sleep, or you give him a paci, or even just rock him-- do it. Do no worry about forming habits.

e&d - I honestly have no advice - just support. It sounds like you are really trying to work out a routine for your son and it's just not happening! How frustrating. :mad: My hubby refuses to read the book too-- but I just keep dictating the book to him over and over and over again. Once we started seeing results HE was more adament about following the book than I was (especially about leaving my DS in his crib to fall asleep on his own). It really just takes that one time. I do agree that an earlier/consistent bedtime = better sleep overall-- but I've only been doing this for 5 months! Sorry I can't be of more help!

jules1025

12-19-2006, 07:39 PM

e&d - What do you think about scheduling one weekend where you take over putting DS down for naps and bedtime (on your timetable and with whatever naptime/bedtime routine you establish)? You can approach it with your DH as a "I know you don't agree with me, but let's see if it works" kind of thing. And, taking a weekend to implement your plan (with you in charge) will allow your DH to step back and see that what you are talking about really does work (and it keeps him from not following your instructions and possibly screwing up the whole process). Of course, that means that you'll have to have a plan in place. :p About nightwakings, would you be opposed to trying a gradual CIO? Where you go in 5 mins the first time, 10 mins the 2nd time, 15 mins the 3rd, and so on. This seemed to work really well for my DD. Also, my DD always makes noise in her sleep (in fact, she's doing it right now). This does not mean that she's awake, though. So don't mistake a moan or small cry to mean that your DS is up and needs his paci. He could just be having a bad dream or making noise in his sleep. About naps... you might need to do the same gradual CIO for naps as well. And, be very consistent with your naptime routine. I think once you get the bedtime moved up and he's STTN, the naps will follow. I hope this was helpful. It's hard to sleep train your child when your DH is on a completely different wavelength! Oh, and when my DD is overtired she, too, cries hysterically while we're changing her diaper and putting PJ's on before bed.

tunibell

12-19-2006, 09:05 PM

e&d - I recently spoke with a clinical psychologist who specializes in infant/toddler sleep issues (my 9 mo old daughter was a frequent night waker too). So this advice isn't all Weissbluth, per se, but I thought it might be helpful.

First, I would definitely suggest an earlier bedtime, especially if Leo isn't napping in the afternoons. The poor guy is probably just dog tired by the time 7:30 pm rolls around, and that overtired state just seems to cause all sorts of night waking problems. I usually put my DD down at 6 pm, but I've been known to do 5:30 pm if she skips her afternoon nap. All the sleep books I've read (and there are so *many* of them!) say that sleep begets sleep in infants, and I have found this to be true in our household. My DD generally wakes up between 6:30 and 7:00 am.

The psychologist we spoke with addresses sleep problems in three steps: 1) bedtime, 2) nightwakings, and then 3) naps. (This is, by the way, the same program outlined in Jodi Mindell's Sleeping Through the Night, which is hands-down my favorite sleep book. Mindell is a pyschologist and a breastfeeding mom).

First, a quick question...does Leo put himself to sleep, or is he breastfed, rocked, etc. to sleep? If he puts himself down (in other words, you can put him in his crib awake or drowsy and he will fall asleep on his own), then he has the ability to self-soothe, and should be able to do this in the middle of the night, with a little encouragement.

e&d

12-20-2006, 04:52 AM

Thanks so much for the replies! :)

Wrighty, sorry to hear your husband won't do the whole reading thing either. Very frustrating!

Jules, great idea on the weekend idea. In fact with the holiday coming up, this weekend will be perfect! And yes, gradual CIO it would be ok with me. We had tried delaying our response in the night a few months back, and it didn't go anywhere...but we didn't really have a system, so I don't know that it was the best experiment.

Tunibell, super helpful. (By the way, I have always loved your daughter's name!) Thanks for the Mindell suggestion. I've heard of her but haven't read the book...I'll order it.

First, a quick question...does Leo put himself to sleep, or is he breastfed, rocked, etc. to sleep? If he puts himself down (in other words, you can put him in his crib awake or drowsy and he will fall asleep on his own), then he has the ability to self-soothe, and should be able to do this in the middle of the night, with a little encouragement.
Yes, he can fall asleep on his own. He was always nursed/rocked, but we got him out of that about 3 months ago and he can definitely put himself down now. So I agree, I know he can do it in the middle of the night.

Thanks, all -- I think I am also convincing my husband to go earlier. It's just frustrating because of course this whole process takes time, and if I'm the only one researching it and it doesn't work, then his attitude is just dismissive of the whole thing. :rolleyes: Good thing he's such a good dad in every other way. :)

tunibell

12-20-2006, 08:53 AM

Yes, he can fall asleep on his own. He was always nursed/rocked, but we got him out of that about 3 months ago and he can definitely put himself down now. So I agree, I know he can do it in the middle of the night.

Okay, this is good. This is the point Piper is at too (thanks for the compliment on her name, btw :)). My husband took notes during our call with the psychologist; I'll paste them below:

* Piper's doing well, she has self-soothing down pat, the key is for us to teach her to apply it at night time. Her night wakings are expected and she's having them right on schedule. By 10 pm or so, her melatonin levels are restored so when she does wake up, she can stay awake for a while. This will make teaching her to go back down more time consuming, because she has the energy.

* We should be prepared for her to be good and pissed off while we teach her to go back down on her own. We shouldn't go in if she's just wimpering, we should wait until she starts to cry, unless she's really really hysterical right off the bat (no wimpering), then we can go into her.

* When we go in we shouldn't pick her up if we can help it. She'll be crying the whole time, but we should just pat her and tell her that we're here. Try to stay no more than two minutes and try to say and do the same things each time ("Sleeptime," "Go night-night," etc.) Go in as often as we think we need to (no need to wait for a certain time interval). If she really gets going, then pick her up, but no rocking or walking around. Just pick her up for a couple of minutes and then put her back down. Expect her to start crying again.

* All of this is her trying to figure out what the new rules are. She likes it when we come see her at night, so she'll try different ways of getting us to come in.

* It's okay to start with just teaching her on the early waking and gradually move to the later ones, unless we prefer to go whole hog right off the bat. [We've just been working on the 10 pm wake up here.]

* Keep the room as dark as possible.

* The 5am waking is the toughest to get her off of. The early ones can take 7-10 days to fully get past, but the 5am can be 3 weeks or so.

* The most important thing is for us to be consistent on our end.

Eliezrah

12-25-2006, 07:17 AM

Seth will be 15 months old on the 30th. He pretty much never sleeps through the night unless he's in our bed, which we want to stop. We put him to sleep in his crib and when he wakes up, we've been putting him in bed with us so we can sleep. We know we started some bad habits back when he was a baby due to severe excema which kept him up scratching and we now want to break them. He sleeps in our room and seems terrified of his crib so CIO won't work with him. we have to rock or hold him till he's out cold sleeping before we even put him in the crib.

2 nights ago I did put him in the crib and held him while i bent over the crib to cuddle him. THis way he was in the crib but I was comforting him somewhat. I turned on his aquarium and flutterby bird and kept showing them to him as well as his toys that are in there. After about 1/2 hour he stopped crying and sorta played with the toys. After an hour, though, he's scream if I tried to get him to lay down or sit down and it was already WAY past his bedtime so DH took him ot and rocked him to sleep.

Last night we put him in the crib already asleep but when he woke up at 12:30 I kept him in the crib and did the same thing as the ngiht before. Finally by 1:15 (after I put my pillow in the crib since he loves it so much) he laid down and passed out cold till about 6 am when we jsut brought him into bed with us (we were too tired to be up for the day and we knew if we put him with us he'd sleep till about 7:30, which he did).

Is this what we should continue you think? Just once a night to start keeping him in the crib till he calms down and goes to sleep? I'm hoping this teaches him to enjoy the crib as well as be able to put himself to sleep.

Any other tips or ideas? TIA!

BTW we're doing it one wake up per night at a time since it worked easier for us that way when I had to wean him immediately for medical reasons.. doing both wake ups would mean we'd get no sleep whatsoever.....

mommy2allyandaveri

12-25-2006, 08:25 AM

It sounds like you did pretty well last night, I would continue doing what you did. If you are trying to break the habit of him coming to bed with you then you need to completely stop taking him to bed with you, that will only confuse him and make this process harder for the both of you.

Eliezrah

12-25-2006, 08:46 AM

Thanks. I think we're trying to first get him not scared of the crib. It's hard since there are several bad habits we want to break and I know we can't do them all at once: being afraid of the crib, not being able to put himself to sleep, coming to bed with us.

Eliezrah

12-27-2006, 06:41 AM

Thanks for your tips and advice... I have a GREAT update!!!!!!!!

So last night was night #3 of serious sleep training for him. We need to kick him of the habit of being terrifified of his crib, of needing to be held until he goes to sleep, and of needing to be rocked back to sleep or cuddled in our bed back to sleep.

The first night, I put him in the crib when he was tired and stayed with him and held him and cuddled him over the crib rail. It took about an hour for him to stop trying to get out and to just stand there quietly. Scott then suggested we just put him to sleep on us so he wouldn't be up half the night. That night when he woke up to come to our bed, I did the same thing and actually got him sleeping in about 45 mins!

The 2nd night it only took 30 mins for him to fall asleep and he stayed asleep until 6:45 am!

Last night Scott got him asleep in the crib in 20 mins! He woke up quite a few times (which makes for one VERY tired Lisa today) but he put himself back to sleep each and every time and slept till almost 7:30!! WOO-HOO!!!!

Now we have to work on him being ok with us putting him in the crib and walking out of the room, but it is getting MUCH better!!

Hula1974

12-27-2006, 01:46 PM

Lisa - Congrats on a few good nights! I'd like to make a suggestion about trying to get him ok with you walking out of the room. It's not Weissbluth but it might help your situation.
I have a brother who is MUCH younger and he is Autistic. I only say that because if it worked for him it must be a pretty good plan!
The plan had a few steps, and you were supposed to do each step for 3 days successfully and then move to the next.
1 - sit next to him until he falls asleep
2 - stand next to him until he falls asleep
3 - put a chair by the door and sit there until he falls asleep
4 - stand by the door until he falls asleep
5 - stand outside the door, with the door ajar until he falls asleep
That should do it!

Eliezrah

12-27-2006, 02:42 PM

Thanks, Heather. That's pretty much what we discussed we should try to do. I'm crossing my fingers it works!!!!

Eliezrah

12-27-2006, 05:39 PM

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! So tonight was my night ot tuck him in. We got into my room and sat on the glider. He refused any milk at all (he was still drinking milk to fall asleep up until just a few days ago) and kept saying "bed, bed". He does say that when I forget his sleepsack so I decided to put it on him in the crib. He fuss-cried for less than a minute while I wa putting it on him nd he stayed laying down afterwards. I put him in at 8:08 and at 8:15 I realized he was quiet (I was sitting on my bed watching tv). I looked over and he was out cold already!!!!! I wasn't right next to the crib at all and I wasn't paying attetnion to him!!!! 7 minutes!!!!

Tomorrow we're going to try no milk at all and just his sippy of water. We're als going to start putting the sleepsack on him in the crib and see if that helps as well!!!!

OMG OMG OMG!

lilo

12-29-2006, 02:49 PM

HELP! DS is about 5 weeks old and we are having the hardest time putting him to sleep at night. During the day I can usually get him to sleep either in the car seat (only if we actually go for a car ride or stroller ride) or in my sling. At night though is a totally different story.

Last night I managed to get him to sleep in the pack 'n play around midnight and he slept until 3 am, which was great. I got up at 3, fed, burped and changed his diaper and then it was all downhill. DS started screaming bloody murder (this child doesn't have a 'quiet' cry) and didn't stop fussing until my DH placed him on his chest and let him fall asleep in our bed. This has become a pattern for us for the last week or so. We used to be able to get him down in his crib or pack 'n play without too much trouble but now it's impossible.

I know they say that for the first 6 weeks, let the baby sleep wherever you can but since we are fast approaching the 6 week mark, I am wondering what else I can do in the middle of the night feedings to get my DS to sleep in his 'own' bed instead of ours. We have hours of rocking, swaying, swinging and DS is always swaddled. I have ready Happiest Baby on the Block soo many times but nothing seems to work.

Any suggestions? Do we wait it out until he's at the 3 month mark?

hokiegirlie

12-29-2006, 03:11 PM

Not that this helps you at all but we let our baby sleep wherever he would in the very beginning. I spent many nights with him on my chest. He slept like a log, but me...not so much! I can't remember how long we did this but he started sleeping through the night a 11 weeks and he's a champion sleeper now at 6 months.

If it's not really bothering you, I wouldn't worry so much about where he sleeps now. Five weeks is still really young and I don't think you're gonna mess up any sleeping habits now. Good Luck!

BethIrish

12-29-2006, 06:34 PM

rosa727

12-30-2006, 06:40 AM

lilo: My baby is 4 weeks old and he also has no set way of going to sleep. During the day, the sling works really well. At night, I usually rock him to sleep (works pretty quickly) and then put him to bed with us (in his sleep positioner). That way, if he fusses a little, I can pat him quickly and he qill drift off again. Some nights the only thing that has worked is laying him on our chests until he is asleep. I plan on trying to start a plan soon, but for now, I think there is almost no way to have a routine or anything.

Bloomwood

12-30-2006, 10:17 AM

lilo - I agree with PP. Let him sleep however works because that means you are also getting sleep. I wouldn't worry about any sort of plan until at least 3 months.

emmjay

12-30-2006, 05:09 PM

I have a question about naps that I haven't been able to figure out from HSHHC - DS is 5 months old and still wants to go to sleep every 2 hrs or so. His basic schedule is that he wakes up at 7 am, then does alternating eating and sleeping throughout the day until around 8:30 pm when he goes to sleep for the night. He ends up taking 4 naps during the day, two of which are only 30 - 40 mins long. The other two are usually 1 hour or more.

How can I get him to consolidate his naps and/or go to sleep for the night earlier? Or is this normal and he will gradually go into 2 naps by himself? Yesterday he had 3 naps (two long and one short) but today he went back to 4. I have tried keeping him awake longer than 2.5 hours but he is miserable and ends up having a horrible night of sleep when I do. And if I put him to bed before 7:45, he wakes up by 5:00 am.

Any advice? Or should I go with the "if it ain't broke..." method and leave it alone? He is an extremely happy baby in general and I definitely like his STTN schedule, but I just want to do what is best for him.

Wrighty26

12-30-2006, 05:29 PM

emmjay - Braeden JUST started taking 2 consolidated naps a day -- it started maybe 2 weeks ago. He was doing the SAME exact thing as your guy -- 4 naps a day, no longer than an hour, and the last nap was only about 40 minutes long. One day it just "clicked" and unless his sleep gets interrupted (ahem, Christmas Day!) he now naps from 9-11 and 1-3. Today it was 9-12 and 2-4, but I think he's still recovering from all of the holiday excitement. I say give a few more weeks -- I think you're son is about 3-4 weeks younger, right? If he is sleeping consistently during the day and well at night then I'm sure he'll figure the daytime naps out very soon!

Sorry I have no advice though -- although I have to tell you I was thinking the EXACT same thing as you a few weeks ago! You don't know how excited I was when he started to be consistent.

jules1025

12-30-2006, 07:22 PM

emmjay - My DD didn't start taking 2 naps a day until she was well over 7 months old... probably closer to 8 months old. Before that she took 3 naps a day. Have you tried not going to him until he's been in his crib for 1 hour? I'm wondering if he might put himself back to sleep if you didn't go to him right away? (Just throwing out ideas.) Another suggestion is to put him to bed by 7pm. A 7-7 night schedule and following the 2 hour rule during the day would only allow time for 3 naps a day (the last stretch would be 3 hours of awake time), assuming every nap he took was at least 1 hour long. Does that make sense?

Kopper

12-30-2006, 07:30 PM

I know HSHHC says that after 9 months babies don't need to eat during the night anymore. I'm wondering when the average BF baby doesn't wake during the night to eat anymore. DS is 9 months tomorrow and still nurses at least once during the night. I think he is moving to just once per night now that we are stopping co-sleeping. I don't want to night wean yet I'm just curious what the average age BF babies sleep through the whole night.

JATTNJ

12-30-2006, 07:50 PM

My breastfed baby didn't sleep through the night until 10 months old....just my experience.

Sleep was a huge issue for us....all I can say is do what you think is right for your child....it's very hard ;)

He self-weaned at 14 months and I was still (ocassionally) bf'd at night. Now, he sleeps 7 to 7...which I NEVER thought would happen

Eliezrah

12-31-2006, 04:27 PM

Emmjay, all babies have different needs when it comes to sleep. My DD didn't get to 2 naps until she was about a year, whereas my DS was on 2 at around 6-7 months. He's 15 months now and has been on 1 nap a day for about 3-4 months where DD didn't go to 1 until she was about 20 months old. If it works and he's getting the sleep he needs, don't do anything!

Kopper, DS didn't STTN until last week (he's 15 months old). HE didn't night wean himself at all until I had to wean him at just under a year. We semi coslept and it took a lot of work to break him of that habit.

deliciousjones

12-31-2006, 11:00 PM

Alrighty!

Any advice on how to get my carseat-lovin' little 3 month old to sleep anywhere BUT her carseat? Ideally, I'd like to transition her into a bassinet or crib. Has anyone BTDT?

newmommy

01-01-2007, 06:35 AM

We need help!! DS is turning one next weekend, and for the past week, he has been waking up several times a night(he's been STTN for at least 8 months)

At first, we thought it was his teeth(several are popping through) then we thought it was a reaction to milk(started the transition) and lastly, a bug--he's had a fever around 100 all week long. So the night before last, we let him CIO-after changing his diaper, giving him a bottle, giving him Tylenol...it lasted 10 minutes-he fellb ack asleep. Last night, he started whining/fussing around 3am, and off and on for one hour. I went in to give him Tylenol and he reached out to me...thinking that he might be in pain, I picked him up, and he clung to me. I brought him downstairs to rock him-he fell fast asleep until 8am(no bottle this time).

Well now I'm worried that he's just formed a bad habit. Given that he's going to be one year, eats solids several times a day--he just doesn't need the calories at night...the evidence of that is a bottle he's just thrown on the living room floor----which is half full!

Should I continue to go in and sooth him, or just plain old CIO from now on? I'm bummed that our little guy has always been an excellent sleeper---could he be going through a 12 month growth spurt???

TIA

Oh, and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

deliciousjones

01-01-2007, 07:03 AM

newmommy: my daughter went through the same thing at around 1. she went from sttn to waking up several times for drinks, food, snuggles, you name it.

it only lasted 2-3 weeks and then she started sttn again. my thoughts were that if she was waking up in the middle of the night for us (esp. since she clearly knows how to soothe herself), she needed us for some extra security, and i wasn't going to leave her by herself at at time like that.

ktdelsur

01-01-2007, 07:13 AM

Maybe I'm just hardcore, but I'd CIO.

You yourself, (I know I can) can tell the difference in your child's cry as to whether or not they really are hurting or REALLY distressed beyond just fussing around in the crib.

My DS was just doing general fussing - he finds his paci himself and goes back to sleep in less than 3 mins usually. If it goes on longer and is out of the ordinary, we'll go in there. If he's just fussing for the sake of fussing, and we pick him up, it's all over - he'll habitually do it for a few nights until we CIO again and he stops.

Eliezrah

01-01-2007, 09:04 AM

Alrighty!

Any advice on how to get my carseat-lovin' little 3 month old to sleep anywhere BUT her carseat? Ideally, I'd like to transition her into a bassinet or crib. Has anyone BTDT?

It depends, are you in favor of CIO? I am and I waited until 4-5 months to get DS to stop sleeping in his swing and in his crib. I just let him CIO and it took about 20-30 mins then. Within 1 day he was fine.

Newmommy, when DD did that around the same age for 3 weeks, I called the ped. She told us to let DD CIO since she was just in a bad habit. I did and after 1 night, she stopped doing it.

Eliezrah

01-01-2007, 09:06 AM

Forgot to post my update.... Seth is officialyl STTN!!! He did wake up once last night crying for his "baba." He could't ifnd his sippy cup of water. I just hadned it to him w/o saying a word. He took it, sat down to drink, and put himself back to sleep! He's now sleeping 11 hours at night!! WOO HOO for sleep training!!!

BTW both my ped and ped dentist say it's ok to leave a sippy of water with kids at night. IF yours like to drink at night, that's an option you can try.

lilo

01-01-2007, 04:20 PM

Thank you everyone! I'm glad I'm not the only one going through this. Good to know that we don't have to worry about things until 12 weeks. DS has had a few good nights of sleeping at least most of the night in his pack 'n play so I shouldn't complain. Last night he 'slept' (really, 3 hour cycles) in his pack 'n play until 6am and then I just put him in bed with us because I knew he wouldn't go back down.

Question: Once we start establishing a sleep routine at about 3 months and hoping that DS will start STTN (I know, wishful thinking) or at least longer stretches of sleep, if he wakes up in the middle of the night, should I pick him up to nurse him? At what age are you not supposed to feed them during the night and just go in to pat them on the back to help them fall asleep again?

Marisa

01-01-2007, 05:13 PM

lilo -- LLL and many other experts will tell you that a baby who wakes to nurse at night *needs* that nighttime feeding until at least 6 months (possibly longer). You will learn to read your child's cues and figure out what's a hungry cry vs. a scared cry, etc... but personally I would not deny my child food on the off chance that they needed those extra calories for some reason. (Plus, I don't like to go 12 hours without eating myself -- and my stomach can hold way more than a 6-mo-old! :))

I don't know what Weissbluth says about it, I know this is a sleep thread, but from a BFing standpoint the overnight feedings are necessary until at least 6 months, if baby is still waking for it. (Don't forget that much of our contemporary concept of infancy is based on primarily FFed infants, so things may need to be adapted for BFing.)

MMHinCA

01-01-2007, 05:27 PM

Wrighty26

01-01-2007, 05:45 PM

lilo -Weissbluth says that night wakings are fine for feedings (I believe at any age - but I think that at 9-10 months they shouldn't need to wake up to eat) as long as your child goes back to sleep afterwards. This is ESPECIALLY true of BFing babies. It's when they start waking up and staying up that night wakings are truly a problem.

Kopper

01-01-2007, 05:50 PM

I need some help with getting my 8 month old to STTN. She is a pretty good sleeper for the most part with a couple night wakings (usually around midnight and 3am). She will sometime wake up a couple other times but will go back to sleep on her own. I am thinking of letting her CIO but wanted to know if anyone else has any suggestions of advise. Thanks!

MMH - I really didn't want to CIO either. With DH being gone 2 weeks out of the month and DS waking 7-10 times a night and needing to be comforted back to sleep I felt like I was going crazy. After agonizing about it for weeks I decided to try CIO. The first night he cried for just under 1 hour and since then he hasn't cried for more than 20 min. The most he normally cries is 1-3 minutes. He doesn't cry every night and most of the time he just lets out one or two cries and then goes back to sleep. He doesn't STTN yet but I am ok with that. He will go 6-9 hours at a stretch and then wake to nurse. We also have stopped co-sleeping which in our case helps. He just wasn't staying asleep in our bed. If DS wakes before 1 or 2am we let him cry for a little bit (1-4 mins or so) to see if he puts himself back to sleep. If he is hungry he won't go back to sleep. If you don't think she is hungry you CIO might work. I was so suprised how fast it worked for us. Before we tried it he would need us to help him back to sleep everytime he stirred. Or at least that's what I thought but now he does it himself.

MMHinCA

01-02-2007, 09:22 AM

Last night DD woke at 10:40pm and CIO til 11:50pm = 1 hour 10 minutes, and then woke at 2:40am and CIO til 3:40am = 1 hour. Lets hope tonight goes a little better!

Dan's*Girl

01-02-2007, 09:56 AM

My DS is 7 months old and does not STTN. He is up screaming every few hours and doesnt go to bed until around 11. We have tried putting him to bed after dinner and his bath around 8 but he sleeps for a hour then gets up for most of the night, like its a nap or something. He naps normally during the day, his last one ending around 5. We know he needs more than 5-6 hours sleep at night but do NOT want to CIO. I was going to go to the bookstore and get something but dont know what book to get.

HELP PLEASE, we both work FT and its killing us and he is so unhappy from being tired.

THANKS!

tray622

01-02-2007, 10:08 AM

dan'sgirl What time does he wake up for the day and what times are his naps usually?

I havent been giving any advice since obviously I suck at all this sleep crap!! I had 2 champion sleepers and all was well... then up popped this new child who wakes up 3x a night. Okay, she has been sick for real, bronchiolitis, but now is on the mend... selfishly, shouldnt sleep be improving too. This child doesnt get the fact that HSHHC works and her sister, who sleeps 12 hours and has since 4 months old, is prime example. I am being sarcastic but sheesh come on darling child ;)

Dan's*Girl

01-02-2007, 10:28 AM

tray~ he wakes up around 7am, naps from 9-10, 1-2 and 4-5 (roughly). We lso tried eliminating the late nap, but he was a crab ass and still didnt sleep well at night.

10-11pm put him down already asleep
2-4 eats and plays
4-6(7)back down

helen22

01-02-2007, 11:39 AM

Dan's*Girl, I am reading "Good Night, Sleep Tight" by Kim West - it's not exactly a no-cry solution, but it's a little gentler than HSHHC. I can't really advocate for it yet since I'm still reading and haven't tried any of the methods from the book yet (DD has a wicked cold, waiting for that to subside).

Wish I had some helpful advice!

IzzyJune2006

01-02-2007, 11:58 AM

Dan's*Girl
Seriously, we have the same baby!!! DD is the same in terms of sleep habits. We're still struggling with that evening period as well.

Here are some things that seem to help (though nothing has solved our problem)...
More food... she is now on solids and she gets dinner around 6pm, bath, and last BF around 7pm. She goes to sleep REALLY easy after the bath.

She sleeps much better in our bed. I guess we are still co-sleeping. Attempts at transfering to the crib remain unsuccessful (probably because we are not consistent and give in).

When she falls asleep the first time in the evening, I watch the clock like a hawk. Sometime between 30 and 60 min later, she wakes up. If I am right there and soothe her back to sleep, she will fall back asleep. If I wait too long, she works herself up and is difficult to put her to sleep.

During that period, letting her wake up and play will make the rest of the evening even worse. She will still resist going to sleep and it will take just as long. So I've learned NOT to do that.

I have to admit that we are now trying the CIO method. I keep telling DH that it is crazy to be rocking/soothing a baby to sleep for hours every day.

We have other factors affecting our ability to sleep train (she's sick; we currently live with the ILs). Anyway... I'm curious to see what others have to suggest. I am no longer the patient person I've always been and that makes me super sad.

Eliezrah

01-02-2007, 12:14 PM

Last night DD woke at 10:40pm and CIO til 11:50pm = 1 hour 10 minutes, and then woke at 2:40am and CIO til 3:40am = 1 hour. Lets hope tonight goes a little better!
I promise you, it does get better each night!

Ramona, maybe his last nap is too late. If he's waking up at 5 from a nap then he might not be tired enough by 8 for bed. When you tried eliminating 1 nap, how did you do it and how long did you try it for? Sometimes it takes then 1-2 weeks ot get used to the new schedule.

amygrrl

01-02-2007, 02:32 PM

dd is 9 months old and is going through some regression with her sleep (refuses to sleep, waking up at night after STTN) and she's not teething (though we gave her some tylenol just in case that was the reason and nothing changed.)

today, we are on day 2 of CIO. i hate this. i know there's no other option for us (we tried cosleeping this last week and she spent over 2 hours hitting and kicking us.) and if we do the ferber thing (going in and out of the room) she just gets more worked up. i even tried staying in the room with her while she cried. again, she just got more and more worked up. last night she cried for 45 minutes and then slept through the night. at her morning nap, she only cried for maybe 2 minutes. but now on her afternoon nap we are on about 15 minutes of crying right now. this is driving me crazy. any other suggestions?

her typical schedule is..

7am-7:30 am - wakes. plays for about 20 minutes by herself
10-10:30 am - goes down for first nap. usually sleeps for 1 - 1 1/2 hrs.
1:30 - 2 pm - goes down for second nap. usually sleeps for 30 min - 1 hr.
5:15 pm - eats dinner
5:45 pm - bath
6:00 pm - bottle. rocking for a few minutes.
6:15 pm - in crib for the bed.

newmommy

01-02-2007, 05:26 PM

Thanks ladies : )

Last night DS cried it out off and on for about one hour. He then slept throught the remainder of the night....I have my fingers crossed for tonight. DH and I decided CIO worked and we'll do it again.

Thanks again!

IzzyJune2006

01-03-2007, 08:26 AM

Sorry for the long post... hopefully this can help others.

Ok, so we took on the resolution to improve Annabelle's (now almost 7 months) sleep habits. It was becoming rediculous to be rocking her to sleep for hours each evening because she would resist falling back asleep.

After our pediatrician suggested the Dr. Weissbluth book (Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child), we implemented several changes. Moving the bedtime earlier and implementing a routine helped greatly. The problem was still her waking up and crying, refusing to go back to sleep in the evening. She would do fine if we were sleeping in bed with her. It's just not practical for us to go to bed at 8pm every night!

The final step is for her to learn to fall asleep on her own. So we started to let her cry it out (CIO) to ease our frustration. I had tried a couple of times before but not consistently.

Last night, after feeding, and bathing, I rocked her to sleep around 7:30pm. She hadn't napped much at daycare so she was very tired. She fell asleep easily as usual. I moved her to her crib.

I bought crib bumpers yesterday. Her crib is next to our bed. With bumpers she won't be able to see us in bed next to her and she can move all she wants during her fits and not hit the rails. I also removed the FP aquarium that she had started to play with very roughly during her tantrums (the noisy red spinning crab can become quite annoying).

She slept until ~8:50 pm (much longer than normal). She woke up and started to cry. We did not go into the room and waited. After brief periods of quiet and many of crying, at 9:30 I went in to check. She had rolled herself into a corner and didn't have a pacifier in reach. I moved her to the middle and gave her the pacifier. She cried again for about 10 min. After that she was quiet. I thought she was sleeping, so I went in to go to bed. She was not sleeping yet and saw me and cried. I went straight to bed and didn't make a noise or move thereafter. She was quiet and presumably asleep within 5 min, so was I.

She woke up after 1am. I didn't wait for her to start crying and just fed her. She's been on a single night feeding for a few weeks now. She ate like a champ and was falling asleep in my arms. I put her down in her crib. After two whimpers, she fell asleep. She woke up around 6am this morning as usual.

All in all, I think the first night was a success. I hope tonight gets better. DH and I have committed to this method for 3 nights. So we hope that by the weekend we will have an easy baby! (one can wish)

The hardest thing is not going in to check on her. So many thoughts run through your mind... is she ok, is she stuck, can she breath, what if her diaper is now dirty, etc. I can see where having a video monitor would be useful at this stage. We survived with the basic audio one. For the past few weeks, she's been consistently having her dirty diapers in the morning (7-9am), so that puts me to ease a little.

Keeping fingers crossed for more progress!

Kopper

01-03-2007, 08:35 AM

DS slept from 6:30pm to 6:00am last night. This is the first time ever that he has gone that long. Boy was I engorged but well rested. Before last night he had only gone 9 hours.

MMHinCA

01-03-2007, 08:57 AM

DD STTN last night! She did squawk for 15 minutes at 5am but besides that we did not hear a peep out of her from 7:30pm to 7:45am! Lets see how tonight goes, maybe she is learning!

Yeah for you, kopper!

Dan's*Girl

01-03-2007, 10:01 AM

It seems from the posts Ive been reading that the older DC is, the longer he sleeps?? DS is only 7 months, not crawling or doing anything super exhausting during the day. Maybe once that starts the sleeping will get longer?

Last night wasnt as awful as the night before. DS went down at 10:30 (during a bottle AND rocking), got up at 145 for 1/2 hour, then up again from 330-5am(UGH!) then back down until 715. The babysitter said he took a 3 hour nap this morning. :(
Something has to change or im going to fall asleep at work!

mia's mama

01-03-2007, 12:12 PM

So I'm joing this thread and wondering if any of you have childresn who share a room?
When my daughter was 8 months old we sleep trained her and it worked like a charm...took a full week, but she has pretty much slept through the night 7-7 since (She is now a little over 2 years).

DS is 5.5 months old and is a TERRIBLE sleeper...has a hard time napping and no joke has been waking up 7-8 times/night. It's not all his fault though...trying to get him on a schedule with a two year old running around the house, and taking her to playdates, classes etc. is hard.

The other huge thing is that our thrid bedroom is now an office because of a family room addition (you must walk though the 3rd bdrm to get to the family room)..this means our kids are sharing a room until we move in April or May. We have been keeping DS in our room, because we just can't have him wake up DD so many times each night.
He alternates between "sleeping" in the co-sleeper and in bed with us and I'm so freaking tired that I just let him nurse all night long to get back to sleep. As a result, I think he just doesn't know how to put himself to sleep.

I fianlly bought HSHC yesterday and I'm implementing the nap times after an hour and a 1/2 of awake time. This AM he awoke at 7am, and I read to him, fed him and put him in his crib (in DD's room) at 9am...he fussed momentarily and slept until 9:50 (so probably 45 min of sleep). I got him up, changed him, we played and sat outside until 11:25am, at which point I did the same routein and put him in the crib at 11:37am. He is still crying on/off and it's 12:17pm. I think I'm supposed to go in and get him at 12:37pm if he's still crying, right?

Of course we are going away for the weekend tomorrow, so this may all be in vain (until we return), but he's just exhausted and so am I!

mia's mama

01-03-2007, 12:23 PM

{sigh}...12:29pm and crying has escalated into screaming...going into get him (it's been 52 min. and I can't stand it anymore...poor guy).

IzzyJune2006

01-03-2007, 12:59 PM

Dan's*Girl, has he always been like this or is it a new thing? We went through something similar about 3 weeks ago. It did get back to normal after 1-2 weeks, though I wanted better than normal at that point. Coincidently, since then, DD has had her first tooth come out and a growth spurt. Perhaps you are going through something similar and it will pass.

Keep trying to implement good habits. Hang in there!

Mia's mama Hope things get better. I found that the HSHHC recommendations work well overall. But for daytime naps, I have to use her cues a little bit more. Going strictly by the clock doesn't always work. If he's used to going longer between naps, maybe you just have to cut down that time by 20 min increments until you find the sweet spot.
The morning 1.5 hour does seem to be magic though. We put DD down one hour after she wakes up. HTH.

mommy2allyandaveri

01-03-2007, 06:50 PM

I am hoping you ladies can recommend some suggestions or a book that might help us.

Some background info:

DD is 5 weeks old.
We do not co-sleep and I do not want to start.
DD will not lay down at all to nap during the day, she wakes up as soon as we lay her down, she will only sleep while being held.
At night sometimes it takes 2 or 3 tries to get her down and even then sometimes she just wants to nurse.
We try to keep her up in the evening in hopes that she will sleep better at night.

Please help, we are feeling very confused.

glensgirl

01-03-2007, 07:21 PM

mommy2allyandaveri-Sounds exactly like my DS. At 5 weeks you have to do whatever works. What about the swing or the carseat? Have you tried swaddling? DS hated it in the beginning but eventually it helped me get him out of sleeping in his car seat and into his crib at 5 months. He woke up EVERY time I tried to lay him on his back. He also wanted to nurse CONSTANTLY for the first four months. He was finally diagnosed with acid reflux and the meds did wonders for him. Not saying that is the case for your DD. She is also probably overtired and has a harder time falling asleep if you are keeping her up at night in the hopes of longer stretches of sleep.

mobox

01-03-2007, 07:29 PM

lilo no suggestions, only commiseration. Patrick is 7 weeks and he still has no sleep pattern and no single way that he really gets put to sleep. We are just going with the flow for now. I have to go back to work at 12 weeks, so hopefully by then we will have things sorted out. For now weare going with whatever works!!!

I'm in your boat with having to go back to work. Right now I'm reading 4 (count 'em!) books: HSHHC, Babywise (not sure I like it), No Cry Sleep Solution, and The Baby Whisperer in the hopes of finding good advice and techniques to get DS to form good habits. He's 4 weeks old.

I have to agree that you do what you can until at least 8 weeks old. Accourding to BW, a 7-9 week old baby should be able to sleep through the night at 5-6 hour stretches...but I think that holding that as a standard may set up some new moms and dads for failure because every baby is different.

My NICU doctor and my pede say that the baby until 8 weeks needs to eat every 3 hours so STTN is pretty much not going to happen prior to that. There may be flukes where he sleeps a little longer and sometimes shorter but on average needs about 8 feedings a day.

Go with your gut and read your cues...they will serve you well...your mommy instinct is the best thing!

mommy2allyandaveri

01-03-2007, 08:32 PM

Something else I should mention is that dd rarely sleeps quietly. She grunts and whines and moans a lot throughout the night. Does anyone know if there is anything I can do about this?

jdevaz

01-04-2007, 06:12 AM

Hello -
Some background - My DS is 13 months old and has never been a great sleeper. He has stretches of 2-3 weeks where he will STTN and then will have a week where he wakes 1-2 times a night. At times, he gets a bottle and goes back to sleep or I stay in his room and he falls back asleep.
I used to rock him to sleep when he was younger and then stopped when he was about 7 months old. I would then lie in our bed with him and give him a bottle and he would fall asleep on his own. When he was 9 months old, I transitioned to putting him to sleep in his crib. Some nights would take 15 minutes, but most nights would take 2 hours. It never got easier. After months of frustration, I decided I was putting him to sleep in our bed again. This has been happening for about 2-3 weeks. During some of those nights, I would bring him to his crib while he was sleepy and put him to sleep there.

My DH and I went away for 2 nights last week and since then, my DS has been extremely clingy. He has woken up every night since we have been back and stays awake for 2-3 hours. I go into his room because he is screaming (not normal crying) and sounds like he is scared. When he sees me, he is standing in his crib with his arms outstreched. He grabs onto me and won't let go. There is nothing I can do to soothe him back down in his crib. I really don't want to let him CIO because I feel he is experiencing seperation anxiety due to our mini-vacation. I think he's crying because he fears we're not there and I don't want to cause him more anxiety. I leave for work at 6:00am and don't get home until 7:00pm (my mom and MIL watch him while I work). I'm a walking zombie, only sleeping 3 hours a night. Can anyone offer any advice or similar experiences? I'm at my wit's end and needed to speak to moms that are going through sleep deprivation like me!
TIA!

cocoa_femme

01-04-2007, 09:34 AM

Okay, I know this may have already been posted in this thread, but it's so long, and I'm short on time.

After rocking DS to sleep, he wakes up as soon as we lay him down (after having been sleep for 10 minutes or so in our arms). Any suggestions?

yby1

01-04-2007, 10:24 AM

jadevaz - I'm going through the exact same thing with my 9 1/2 month old. We didn't go on vacation, but my Aunt babysat for us two days last week (which is out of the norm) and he's been clingy and night waking ever since - doing the exact same things that your DS does.

I'm still trying to find a solution myself. lately we've just been letting him sleep with us and I'll just let him nurse most of the night. :(

Last night DS woke up around 11:30 (which is an improvement because for the last three nights it was 9:30pm; He goes to bed at 7pm). I went in there and hugged him. He didn't want to let go (I have a nice scratch on my back to prove it), so I just decided to nurse him, which is probably the wrong thing to do :o . Nursing made him drowsy again, but he didn't fall asleep. So I decided to put him back in his crib and I rubbed his back. He seemed a bit more content and just layed there. After a few minutes I left the room. He was quiet for about 5 minutes and then he started to whine. That only lasted about 2-3 minutes and then he fell asleep. DS woke up again at 3am, so I brought him in bed with us, but he was being a wild man, so DH put him back in his crib - there was no fussing (which is how he normally is)! I didn't hear a peep from him until 6:15am, so I got him and brought him back to bed with us and nursed him. he fell asleep again and was still asleep with DH at 7:30 when I left for work. :)

So, he's still getting up every 3 hours or so, but it he doesn't seem as scared as he was a few days ago. I hope this improves and we don't have to CIO much.

Wrighty26

01-04-2007, 11:37 AM

mommy2allyandaveri - For during the day - have you tried putting your DD in a sling? It was really challenging to get my DS to sleep in his crib the first 6 weeks or so. He was really content being in his carseat (because he was nice and snug) and my hotsling - or in my arms! He also would fall asleep in the bouncer, as long as it was vibrating. At night he would either sleep on me, or swaddled in his Snuggle Nest on our bed. Around 5/6 weeks he started to take short naps in his crib - and I gradually transitioned him there at night as well. He HAD to be swaddled though. I know a lot of people have used Miracle Blankets to swaddle - but we really liked the Ultimate Receiving Blankets (http://www.swaddledesigns.com/) by Swaddle Designs. HTH!

cocoa femme - I'm not sure if this is the answer you want - but my DS did the same thing starting around 4 months. He never did it before then, so it was driving us nuts. In any case - we did a little CIO during naps. I made sure he was well fed, had a new diaper on, and a little bit drowsey before putting him the crib. The first time was hard (he cried for just under an hour, but finally took a nap), the second time it took 7 minutes, 3rd time 5 - and then from then all out he's good to go. Sometimes he'll whineor babble, but he is really good about self-soothing. I'll be honest, it was rough and probably not something everyone would do, but he is a champion napper now.

lilo

01-04-2007, 03:21 PM

Wrighty: Thanks for your post. It sounds like we have very similiar children. ;) DS is now 6 weeks old and like your DS, he sleep great in the car seat or my sling. I'd like to sart transitioning his naps at least now to his crib (which will be tough but that's fine). How long in the beginning were your DS's naps in the cribs? How did you get him down for the naps in the crib? How long did you wait to transition him at night to the crib? Some nights DS does sleep in his crib but mostly it's either in our bed or the pack 'n play. Can you post what a typical day was for you around that time? I'm wondering when his last 'nap' should be before attempting to put him down to sleep around 10pm. Any help would be great!

Wrighty26

01-04-2007, 05:11 PM

Lilo - If your son is like mine, then you are definitely in for a treat! It was tough to figure out everything in the beginning, but patience and consistency have been key. His naps in his crib were variable. Sometimes 30-45 minutes, sometimes 2 hours. There was no "typical" day when he was that little. He just started a napping schedule at 5.5 months. I would try to go by the 2 hour rule, although he usually was ready for a nap after being awake for about an hour.

Around 5 weeks we started putting him in his crib for one of his night sleeping "shifts" (as we called them). My DH would either sleep on the floor in his room or sleep in the guest room (which is close to his rooom). I think it made us feel better :D Around 6 weeks he was waking up every 2 hours to eat, but we noticed that when he was in his crib for the one shift he would sleep longer (when we moved him his sleep went from every 2 hours to every 4 hours almost immediately!). So one night we just decided to put him in his crib from the get go. I think it was tougher for me than for him! I do know that at 7.5 weeks (the night before I had to go back to work) he slept for 6 hours straight (10-4) for the first time. It completely freaked me out (of course, he didn't do again until about a week later because I went back to work, but that's a different story!). As for bedtime (we also did a 10pm bedtime around that age and he gradually pushed it back), I generally tried to keep him awake after 7pm (that's the only time I broke the 2-hour rule!). I'd let him "play" (stare at his toys under his gym mat) or do a marathon feeding session with breaks (cluster feeding seemed to help him sleep in longer stretches).

I think that the best things I've done are a) read Weissbluth so I understood stuff about cues and being awake for no more than 2 hours and b) just went with the flow and listened to my son's cues and my instincts. It has really paid off (so far!).

lilo

01-05-2007, 07:38 AM

Thanks Wrighty!! that info is extremely useful. funny enough DS slept for 8 hours straight last night!:eek: i'm sure it was a fluke but it freaked me out too.

cocoa_femme

01-05-2007, 07:40 AM

Thanks for your post, Wrighty. I may just have to suck it up and let him CIO.

Eliezrah

01-05-2007, 10:30 AM

Sorry this post is all about me, but we're heading out of town and I literally have 1 min before I ahve to leave...

DS is STTN officially now! We can even leave the room while he's awake at night! I'm working on that at nap time as well, but I'm just thrilled to be able to be downstairs with DH at 8 instead of 9 pm now!!!!

emmjay

01-05-2007, 11:25 AM

Thanks for all of the responses to my question about naps! I have been letting him just sleep when I think he needs to sleep and not worrying about a specific schedule.

mommy2allyandaveri

01-05-2007, 02:57 PM

Thanks for the info Wrighty. I appreciate any advice I can get. We have the Miracle Blanket but right now we are just using a plain old thermal receiving blanket, it seems to be working ok. DD has to be swaddled, she won't sleep at all unless she is. I just ordered a copy of Health Sleep Habits, Happy Baby so maybe I will learn a few things from that.

mobox

01-08-2007, 02:00 PM

Has anyone else read Babywise? It's pretty strict and I'm wondering if anyone used their techniques.

shortcake

01-08-2007, 02:17 PM

I read it and tried it (with a grain of salt) when DS was younger (under a couple months). It seemed fairly helpful then, the sleep-wake cycle thing was useful. However he never started sleeping through the night despite my best efforts and despite the assurance from the author that he would. This made me feel like I was doing something wrong when I really doubt I was. Annoying. Haven't tried looking at it now that he's older (it was borrowed). The friend I borrowed it from loved it, though.

mgrace

01-08-2007, 02:22 PM

mobox, I believe the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) issued a warning about Babywise a few years ago. There has been concern about such a strict schedule preventing infants from thriving and there has been some concern about dehydration. I can't seem to find the article, but you could Google it, I'm sure.

emschwar

01-08-2007, 02:36 PM

There are some threads on babywise. Let me see if I can find links.
http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9283&highlight=babywise

Bloomwood

01-08-2007, 04:45 PM

I just talked to a gf with a 1-month old that is using Babywise. Having read those threads here on CC, I was really unsettled talking with her. But, she is a smart woman and I'm confident she will do what is best for her baby. She is way different from me; she had a scheduled c/s (I did ncb) and basically that is her whole approach - she likes to be in control and running on schedule. Thankfully she has an easy newborn so far. I can't imagine how she would cope if he were colicky like my DD!

IUAlum

01-09-2007, 08:25 AM

My copy of HSHHC was borrowed and I no longer have it and wonder if any of you experts have advice for me (based on the book or not)

DS is now mobile, he has started crawling and pulling up. YAY from a development point of view, but it has affected his napping. For the past couple of months it has been extremely easy to read his cues for naptime. When he's ready, I know it. I either give him a bottle or pacifier (depending on the time) and put him in the crib. He may cry for a minute or less, but that was it. 1.5-2 hours naps, no problem. HOWEVER, the past week he has taken to crying instantly when I put him in the crib and then rolling over and sitting up. I try to pick him up and put him back down, but he will do it again. And again. And again. You get the picture. Sometimes after 4 or 5 tries he will go down. Often he won't. He CAN get from sitting to laying down and one time he was tired enough that he just flopped forward and instantly fell asleep. But I've taken to rocking him to sleep which I don't want to become a habit.

BTW, bedtime is no problem. He will lay there smiling at me, and then roll to his side and sleep. It's only for naps, or the few and far between night wakings he has.

The other issue is that he is at daycare during the week and after half an hour of trying to get him to go down, they gave up yesterday. So he didn't get an afternoon nap. He slept a little in the car on the way home, but that's it. His mood was fine, but I don't want that to be par for the course.

So, any ideas? Thanks so much in advance.

helen22

01-09-2007, 08:44 AM

jdevaz I was in a similar situation recently (DD also 13 months) - we did tons of travel in Nov and Dec and she got v clingy and her sleep totally deteriorated. I couldn't deal with CIO, so on recommendations from some other CC moms I bought "Good Night, Sleep Tight" by Kim West. I highly recommend it. I had read "HSHHC" and I think his science is sound, but CIO just wasn't a good fit for me. "GNST" is a gentler approach - you stay in the room with the baby and sit next to the crib, and over several days you move your chair further and further away. We have had really good success - the first night DD was up every ~2 hours (nightmare), but by the second she was sleeping 10-11 hours straight. I also like the book because I think she's especially good with toddler sleep - a lot of other sleep books seem more focused on newborns/infants.

Good luck!!

aprilshowers

01-09-2007, 11:18 AM

IUAlum - we went through that too. As far as what we did, we just went back to "visiting" every 5 minutes until she fell asleep. With each visit I would put her back down on her back, hand her her paci and walk out. It wasn't fun but we all got past it and she is back to napping well again. Good luck! There is something so heartbreaking about seeing them sit up crying in their cribs, isn't there!

jdevaz

01-10-2007, 09:09 AM

helen22 -
I'm reading "Sleeping through the Night: How Infants, Toddlers and Their Parents Can Get a Good Night's Sleep" by Jodi Mindell. She gave the same advice about slowly getting farther and farther away from the crib. It seems to be getting a little better. Thanks for the advice - I will check out that book.

MMHinCA

01-10-2007, 09:45 AM

strawberry4

01-10-2007, 10:10 AM

MMHinCA

This is our same problem. Ugghh..I wish I had an answer for you. We have been using Jodi Mindell's method of sleep training. He is going down fine at night and then wakes up either at 1:30 am for a feeding or 5:15 am for the day! To be honest, I would rather do the 1:30 am feeding as he will then sleep till 6:30 or 7:00 am. But, my 27 lb 12 month old does not need a middle of the night feeling! From what her book says, you need to do the CIO method for early morning wakings. But she says some babies are early risers and if that is the case, you will need to get up with them. But it sounds like it is a night waking for your child. Check out her book....it has been helpful.

A question for anyone out there...we have been putting DS down after a bottle (our next vice to get rid of!) he is very drowsy but awake. The last 2 nights, he cuddles up with his blankie and rolls over and falls asleep. Is that considered letting him soothe himself to sleep? SHould I move the bottle earlier. A bottle really calms him and makes him drowsy..otherwise he just squirms and fights it.

lilo

01-10-2007, 10:24 AM

HELP!! I am having so much trouble getting my 7 week old son to take naps during the day when we're at home. So far today, he's catnapped twice. This morning for about 30 minutes and then in the afternoon in his swing for 15 minutes. Right now it seems the only way to get him to take long naps (2-3 hours) is to either go for a car ride or walk although I can only do that so much since it's now winter.

I swaddle him for the naps, rock and sway him, give him his pacifer, and nothing. Well, that's not true. He'll catnap in my arms here and there but never really get into that deep sleep. I just don't know what else I can do to get him to go down during the day.

I'm about to go for a car ride with him so he can take a good long nap but I'd like to be able to get him down for naps while wer'e at home too!

TIA for any help, tips, and advice!

Kopper

01-10-2007, 10:31 AM

Anyone have any ideas on how to break a 5-6am waking? My 8 month old DD sleeps from 7:30pm to 7:30am but wakes around 5-6am. For the last week I have been trying to let her CIO. She will CIO for 15 minutes to an hour. Although, this morning she cried from 5:10am to 6:20am and was crying pretty hard so I went in and nursed her and she then slept from 6:30am to 8:20am. Is there a way to break this 5-6am waking?

I don't have any advice but we have the same problem. I don't really mind if it is 6am but he seems to do it from 4-5am. Last night he woke up at 3am but most of the time it is 4am. I nurse him and then put him back in his crib. Sometimes he cries for just a few minutes and other times I have to go get him. I'm looking for advice too. DS is 9 months.

angelgirl8

01-11-2007, 06:58 AM

kopper and MMHinCA...argh! i'm having the same problem with my 12 month olds. actually, i think it's just one of them, but that one wakes the other so they're both up in the 5am time. (in addition to one other time during the night. that time i nurse them and put them back down). but this early waking is killing us!

savannahgrl

01-11-2007, 08:37 AM

Eliezrah

01-12-2007, 06:41 AM

ARGH! 2 weeks after he weget him STTN and letting us leave the room while he's still awake, we had to go away and ruin it! When we got back, he got pink eye and is cutting 3 molars... YIKES!

lilo

01-12-2007, 07:03 AM

lilo- my 11 week old just emerged this past week from the cat nap stage. At 7 weeks, I believe that they are just trying to figure it out for themselves. Is he giving tired cues like yawning and rubbing his eyes or is he just wide awake?

yup, he gives cues such yawns but does not like it when I try to get him down for a nap. Right now the only way I can get him to take a good nap is by putting him in the car seat and going for a long car ride. Actually he also will nap in my sling. I'd like to get him down in his basinette or crib though. Maybe he's too young?

We're having the same problem at night in that he will only settle down in our bed AND with the pacifer. I am cursing myself that we ever gave him the pacifer now since he seems so dependent on it now although I know he's only 7 weeks.

Has anyone gone cold turkey with making the pacifer go away this early? I'm wondering if it's worth it or just to wait?

shortcake

01-12-2007, 07:15 AM

Lilo - we did get rid of the paci that young, but only because he would wake in the night looking for it so it was defeating the purpose of helping him sleep better. If he is sleeping nicely with it, I'd wait a few months, since the sucking is very comforting to them. And I'm not sure we did the right thing anyway - DS is still not sleeping through the night at 8 months!

Actually I must give my own update:
3 nights ago we finally decided no more night feedings and no going in at night. That night he was up every hour, crying, though most times not for long (the longest was 40 minutes)
The next night he slept from 6:45-7am (he was sooo tired)
Last night he woke up and cried briefly at 8, and then woke and cried from 12:20-1am, and then up for the day (happy and singing in his crib) at 6am.

Hopefully it will only get better from here!

mommy2allyandaveri

01-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Has anyone used the "Extinction" method by Weissbluth. It is listed in his Month one to four section. Sooth your baby to a drowsy state and lay her down kind of awake. Let her fuss and try to put herself to sleep, only pick her up when she cries. Get her back to the drowsy state and lay her down again, this time allow to cry for 5 minutes, repeat again for 10 minutes and so on. Has anyone had success with this?

We also started our bed time routine about an hour earlier than normal (6:30) because she was showing signs of drowsiness. This is something else he recommends.

We just fed her and laid her down. She popped off of my breast on her own, I laid her down when she was drowsy. She started crying a few minutes later so DH is soothing her again and will try to lay her down. How do I know she isn't still hungry???

I'm feeling a little confused. I wish I could talk to this Dr.

Wrighty26

01-12-2007, 08:12 PM

How do I know she isn't still hungry???

Does she take a pacifer?? I always knew that my son wasn't hungry if he took his pacifer. He loved to just suck when he was that little. He doesn't need it now at 6 months (in case you are worried about forming bad habits!).

I haven't done the extinction method, only because I think that in the long run it's harder to do. I let him CIO for naps at 4 months. He's a great napper now, and has no problems self soothing. He is having some night sleep issues now though -- which I think are developmental/teething/growth spurt related.

I do think that CIO like that (without extinction) though isn't really an option till at least 4 months, if not later. I do think that the night routine is great though -- it definitely worked for me!

mommy2allyandaveri

01-13-2007, 08:40 AM

I just don't know what to do. DD doesn't sleep for more than 2 hours at a time at night. Last night it was more than every 2 hours, she was up 7 times last night. She will only lay down a couple of times during the day, usually for about 30 minutes at a time. It seems like things are getting worse not better...

Part of me thinks this is just the way it is and is going to be and I need to deal with it but I just don't know how to do that.

mobox

01-13-2007, 11:51 PM

I'd wait a few months, since the sucking is very comforting to them. And I'm not sure we did the right thing anyway

ITA! I read "Happiest Baby on the Block" and watched Dr. Karp's video and I agree that a baby 3 months and under is very comforted with sucking, be that a pacifier, mom or dad's fingers, or their own fingers/hands. It's not a bad "habit" and I wouldn't worry about quitting the paci until they are at least 3 months old. They say it's pretty easy to do once they are past that age mark.

RE: BAbywise--thanks for all the advice. I have a very good friend who swears by BW and I read the book and wanted to CRY. I thought it sounded cruel and really, other than the "routine" of eat/wake/sleep, thought that it wasn't for me. But I wanted to get some perspective so I spoke to a few other moms who agreed that unless you are committed to a serious "schedule" and can program yourself to ignore your babies cries, than BW is not for you. It isn't for me. It advocates CIO for a baby as young as 8 weeks old and I really can't do that. I'd love to see the article on the AAP and BW...I'll have to see if I can find it.

mobox

01-13-2007, 11:59 PM

Hi, I found the article on Babywise and if anyone wants it, PM me and I'll send it to you.

ajlanden

01-16-2007, 11:55 AM

Anyone have any thoughts on getting naps to be longer? I packed away my Weissbluth book because we are trying to sell our house. If I remember right, it says that after about 40 minutes or so, it is hard to get them to fall back asleep. I don't remember if there are any tricks to lengthening naps. DS takes 30 minute naps, tops. By the end of the day he is so cranky and tired. I wish I could help him.

mommy2allyandaveri

01-16-2007, 01:25 PM

mkvh

01-16-2007, 01:36 PM

ajlanden and mommy2--IRRC, Weissbluth advocates leaving them in the crib for an hour regardless of when they wake up. He does say, though, that 45 minutes MAY be as long as you're going to get a some points during the day and to watch for tired cues earlier than the no-more-than-2-hour interval.

ajlanden

01-17-2007, 07:12 AM

mkvh-Thanks! That is kind of what a remembered!!!!

I don't think there is a real good answer, unfortunatey. I just have a cat napper. Just as a sidenote, the two hour rule in my house is about a one hour rule! He takes 6-7 naps a day. At 5.5 months, I wish he would be happier for longer but I guess that will come.

Parrothead

01-17-2007, 07:17 AM

DD is 8.5 months old. She has STTN twice since she was born, both times 7pm - 6:30am and they were last week. She cried for a little bit both nights around 12 or 1, but I didn't go to her.

The last few days, she's woken around 4 or 5. Do I let her CIO then? Or, do I go do a quick feed/change and then out her back down and let her CIO? I really want her going past 6am consistently!!

Thoughts?

THANK YOU!

shortcake

01-17-2007, 07:36 AM

Parrothead - I think you let her CIO at those times. From other posts you've written I think she is totally fine to do that. I have also heard the 4/5 waking is the hardest to break. Another rule of thumb - if they wake up crying, they are still tired and not ready to get up!

About 6 nights ago we really did CIO full on, and it was a bad night, but we only had one bad one! The second worst only involved one 40 minute crying stretch...all the others have been pretty darn good! Once he cried for 10 minutes, and most nights he does squawk for a minute or so around 4am, but that's it. It's wonderful! I have a cold now, though, and I think he may be getting it. What are you supposed to do when they are sick? I guess you go in, but then what - feed them? comfort them? I'm not sure what.

Naps are still pretty short, and he wakes up crying so I know he's still tired. But I haven't been able to get him back down again.

tray622

01-17-2007, 08:10 AM

kate's mom

01-17-2007, 05:44 PM

HI! At what age does the book say that you should control the wake up time? I am trying to start putting my 3 month old daughter on a "rough" schedule.
Thanks

Eliezrah

01-17-2007, 05:51 PM

Well ladies, I think I can offically say that I'm no longer in need of sleep help! Seth goes to sleep on his own in his crib fairly quickly. He was STTN perfectly until we went away to FL 1 1/2 weeks ago. WE figured it would take about a week to get him back and he ended up with pink eye a week ago and is on day 4 of over 102 fever with ear and throat infections.. yet he's still putting himself to sleep. His couhg is waking him up every so often but he's putting himself back to sleep!!!!!

Wrighty26

01-17-2007, 05:55 PM

HI! At what age does the book say that you should control the wake up time? I am trying to start putting my 3 month old daughter on a "rough" schedule.
Thanks

I'm not sure it ever says to control the wake up time -- but generally around 4-5 months there is a lot more consistency in their sleep. I think this is in the 5months - 1 year chapter. While I don't control the wake up time for my son (at 6 months), I like it when he gets up at 7 because his naps are more structured. Just the other day though, he woke up at 8:40. I go by the rule "never wake a sleeping baby" -- I think that if they are sleeping (and they went to bed at their normal time), there is a reason (For my son it's because he's teething and his tooth finally popped through!)...Of course, this doesn't fly if you are getting ready for work! If my DH wasn't home with my son, then I would probably get him up at 6:30 every day.

Don't know if that helps...

kate's mom

01-17-2007, 06:07 PM

Thanks Wrighty! That does help. Also what time should a 3 month old go to bed?

Wrighty26

01-17-2007, 06:16 PM

I think that around 3 months is when they typically start pushing their bedtime back. Even though it was only 3 months ago, I can barely remember! Every baby is different-- but I would aim for between 6-8 if that's possible. If she's going to bed later now, make the shift gradually and read her cues. A consistent routine (feeding, bathing, rocking...whatever works for you) helps too.

mommy2allyandaveri

01-17-2007, 07:36 PM

mommy2allyandaveri How old is your DD? I think about 8 weeks? It is amazing how much harder it is to deal with the lack of sleep as a RO, huh? The book says that sleep begins to get more organized beginning at 6 weeks. Also it may be time to start thinking of an earlier bedtime but not as early as an older infant. Around that age my youngest was going down at 800 or 830. Then stick to the 2 hour wakeness rule during the day. Also establish a clear and concise bedtime routine. This was hardest for me with #2 because it just couldnt be as long as it had been when #1 was a baby. I think the routine is what the difference was in getting #2 to be a great sleeper like #1. Hang in there a bit longer. She is still at the "anything goes" age. I know it is hard though.

Per Weissbluth we moved DD's bedtime up one hour. So we start the bedtime routine between 6:15 and 6:30. She sleeps at night, which is nice but is up every 2 hours, or less...

I try to stick with the 2 hour wakeness rule. I try to start putting her down for a nap within 2 hours of her getting up in the morning. But she doesn't go down. Today it took me 5 hours of trying to get her to take a whopping 30 minute nap... Very frustrating. I think I cried just as much as she did today.

I talked to her ped tonight, she says colic. So basically I am doing everything I can and I just have to wait this out. She says it usually gets better around 12 weeks. OMG that is still 5 weeks away:eek: I hope I can make it through with my sanity.

Thanks for listening ladies, sometimes it helps just to vent.

Hula1974

01-18-2007, 07:44 AM

This is a great thread! I've been reading along and (even though I did read part or Weisbluth...) and started putting DS down for the night earlier. He does pretty well, waking sometime between 4:30-6. He goes right back to sleep if it's closer to the 4:30 time, but not if it's closer to the 6:00 time. That's fine though.

At 4 months I'm still finding that he follows the 1-2 hours of wakefullness rule. We formula feed and he is basically on a daytime schedule for feeding.

So, my problem is that he eats at 4 and then at 6:45 (to get ready for bed). But, those 3 hours between are miserable for him. Should he be taking another nap in that time or go to bed even earlier?

I feel bad because it's DH's only time to see him - but I know that's no reason to keep him up.

Also (if I may ask 2 questions), I'm going back to work in about a month. What do you all do about waking baby up in the am in order to get everything done before going to daycare?

Franni

01-18-2007, 09:02 AM

I need help desperately, so I am crossposting from the November mommy thread...

++++++++++++

OK...I am desperate. I have been putting DD to sleep with nursing and rocking. That has worked fine for a long time. Actually for a while it was working too well. She slept all the time. She doesn't have a problem going to sleep, it's staying asleep. I can usually get her down in about 5 minutes but during the hours of 2-6 AM, she will not stay asleep unless she is held. She is fine any other time. We have a routine setup. She is down for the night at around 6-7 pm depending on when her last nap was. We have a sound machine. She is also swaddled. During night wakings, we don't talk or make eye contact with her. She is just rocked or nursed or fed and then put down. DH & I are so wiped out with exhaustion.. Any suggestions on what I should do? I am tempted to sleep train but at 11 weeks, I feel like she is just too young although some books said that training can start at 6-8 weeks.

With DD1, I have been successful with using Weissbluth's techniques but not until she was 5 months old. Before then, we used Dr. Karp's techniques which also worked wonders. With DD2, nothing really seems to work but nursing and rocking ENDLESSLY.

mommy2allyandaveri

01-18-2007, 09:45 AM

I need help desperately, so I am crossposting from the November mommy thread...

++++++++++++

OK...I am desperate. I have been putting DD to sleep with nursing and rocking. That has worked fine for a long time. Actually for a while it was working too well. She slept all the time. She doesn't have a problem ghttp://www.constantchatter.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1158928oing to sleep, it's staying asleep. I can usually get her down in about 5 minutes but during the hours of 2-6 AM, she will not stay asleep unless she is held. She is fine any other time. We have a routine setup. She is down for the night at around 6-7 pm depending on when her last nap was. We have a sound machine. She is also swaddled. During night wakings, we don't talk or make eye contact with her. She is just rocked or nursed or fed and then put down. DH & I are so wiped out with exhaustion.. Any suggestions on what I should do? I am tempted to sleep train but at 11 weeks, I feel like she is just too young although some books said that training can start at 6-8 weeks.

With DD1, I have been successful with using Weissbluth's techniques but not until she was 5 months old. Before then, we used Dr. Karp's techniques which also worked wonders. With DD2, nothing really seems to work but nursing and rocking ENDLESSLY.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, but we are doing Weissbluth's sleep training right now and DD is 7 weeks. I feel it is young also, but I had to do something. But his methods aren't really working well for us right now. We are going to try to stick with it though in hopes of it getting better.

Parrothead

01-18-2007, 10:11 AM

Just a followup to my post yesterday...

DD STTN again last night. 7:15pm - 6:40am. She squawked at 3:30am and DH said "are you going to let her cry it out" and I said "Yes, she's regressing! Tonight it's 3:30, last night was 4, and the night before was 5. I am over it!"

It was funny. She cried for 2-3 min and was out until 6:40am. We are almost there, which makes the little steps backwards even more frustrating!

I guess it's like golf -- just hope for forward progress!

Franni

01-18-2007, 11:50 AM

mommytoallyandaveri Thanks for the response. I have gone back a couple of pages and read some of your posts. I feel your pain.

tray622

01-18-2007, 01:42 PM

mommy2allyandaveri Hang in there! My youngest had some health issues but none-the-less was very colicky. When the colic ended (by 13 weeks), we still didnt have the best sleeper until 6 months. It just didnt happen no matter how hard I tried. I know it is hard and I feel for you! I sometimes wished I had her first since it is 10x as hard when you have a toddler too!

Dan's*Girl

01-19-2007, 07:13 AM

Question

DS sleeps pretty well now at night now that he isnt sick, he ALWAYS gets up around 4am for a hour then goes back down until about 630 or 7.

My question is that he is waking up wet. We always put a clean diaper on him right before we put him down, but he eats when he gets up at 3 or 4 am and then wakes up wet from too full of a diaper. We were always told not to change him in the middle of the night because it will wake him up, so we havent been, but its gross and cold for him to wake up and his pajamas and bed are wet from a overloaded diaper.

Should we just say screw it and change him in the middle of the night before his feeding?
Also HOW DO WE STOP THIS MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT MEAL?

Thanks

angelgirl8

01-19-2007, 10:48 AM

dan's girl...i don't have any sleep suggestions, but at some point ds starting leaking through his diaper at night and it would wake him up. we did 2 things: 1. we started double diapering, putting a bigger diaper on top of a smaller diaper; 2. then we just moved him up a diaper size. no more leaks!

jrsygirl

01-29-2007, 06:12 PM

I'm hoping to get some advice. I have almost 10 month old twins. They are not quite sleeping through the night. My daughter is a good sleeper. My son is not. My son wakes up a few times a night but we've been paying closer attention the past few nights and it seems that he's actually still sleeping but often cries out (sobbing not just whimpering) a few times a night progressively until he wakes himself up or wakes his sister up. According to our ped he is to young for night terrors..i'm baffled over what to do. They are also sporadically waking to eat around 3-4 am. Its a toss up because if we dont feed them then they are awake at 5- 5:30. If we do feed them they sleep well until 7-7:30 and wake up happy.
Any thoughts? advice?

mobox

01-30-2007, 04:37 PM

jrsygirl - my DS also wakes up whimpering a lot. Sometimes all it takes is a paci or me leaning over his crib and talking softly to him (stuff like "go to sleep sweetheart"), very softly. Other than that, I'm sorry I don't have any advice.

rosa727

01-30-2007, 04:53 PM

I am looking for any suggestions. My 9 week old baby is quite fussy all day long. We don't think it is colic, but rather reflux (which we are in the process of finding a solution for). Anyway, the only way he ever seems to want to sleep is either in a sling or Baby Bjorn or if I nurse him to sleep. He will NOT go down for naps or go down at night to sleep any other way. Seriously, we could sit there rocking him all night and he would not go to sleep. He will fight it and fight it. However, once I get him to sleep at night, he sleeps very well. He sleeps for 5-7 hour stretches and goes right back to sleep if it is still dark out. Should I even think about trying to do any sleep training? I am concerned he is too young and that with these health problems it would just be mean to let him cry it out or anything. I am pretty sure he is actually in pain. He also can't really sleep alone bcause he spits up in his sleep and chokes a lot, and I need to be there to make sure he is not aspirating (yeah, pretty scary). Since he sleeps with us anyway (and basically has to right now), I don't know what I can do. It's not like I can put him down in our bed without us at 8PM or something. Any suggestions or advice? Should I just wait until we solve the reflux issue? Am I just creating bad habits that are going to be very hard to break? Please HELP!

Bloomwood

01-30-2007, 05:08 PM

Hi Rosa,
Your DS sounds very much like my DD in terms of fussy during the day and decent sleeper at night, needing to be worn or nursed to sleep - at that age. I think you have to just go with it for right now, especially given the reflux.

My DD wasn't diagnosed with reflux and didn't have the spitting up issues but she definitely seemed to take a while for her digestive tract to figure itself out. We ST'd her at 10 weeks per my ped's direction because she wasn't having health issues but rather just needed to know how to put herself to sleep. We did STing for naps and bedtime at the same time. She was going for long stretches very quickly and down to one waking at 4 months until 6 months when we finally cut that one out. So...all that said, I'd still wait until you have his health issues resolved until you try any sort of STing.

I don't think that nursing to sleep is a bad thing at all. Even HSHHC endorses it. Whatever it takes to get him to sleep and get the rest he needs is what you need to do right now. As he gets older, his body matures and starts interacting with the world more, he'll calm down.

This is rambling! I hope some of it made sense.

lilo

02-05-2007, 04:47 AM

I need some feedback/advice from all experienced moms!

DS is almost 3 months and not really on a 'schedule' yet but I am trying to maintain some consistency most days and establish some routines. I mentioned to DH yesterday and most babies around 4 months have a 7-7 sleep schedule and he got a little upset about that since he doesn't get home from work until about 6:30 or close to 7pm so he wouldn't be able to see DS before he went to bed. Would it be okay to have DS go to bed closer to 8pm?

Also, does everyone keep the same sleep schedule on the weekends? In other words, if your DC usually gets up at 7am during the week, do you get up with him at 7am on the weekends or bring him into bed with you guys? Yesterday I brought DS into bed with us around 7ish which was nice but then he slept on and off until 9am, which sort of messed up his schedule and he only ended up taking one really good nap around 1pm. Thankfully he still went to sleep around 9pm or so and only woke up once at 2am to feed.

My other question: Right now I am a SAHM so I don't have to technically 'wake up' DS in the mornings but I always wonder if I should or not to again keep him on a routine of sorts. Right now it's close to 8am and he's still sleeping, which is great but I'm wondering if I should wake him soon to make sure his day doesn't get out of whack. Am I crazy to even think about waking him in the morning? Should I just let him sleep as long as he wants in the morning? He will be going to daycare in a few months so that's another reason I want to have a routine soon.

THANKS!

shortcake

02-05-2007, 07:32 AM

Lilo - I definitely know some people whose children do more of an 8-8 schedule. It may be harder to implement if it's not natural for the baby, but it has worked out for them. And yes, the kids pretty much keep the same schedule on weekends too.

mkvh

02-05-2007, 07:39 AM

lilo--according to HSHHC, your DS is going to dictate his own bedtime. And believe me, he will! HOWEVER, I have a very easy DD, and we can keep her up when we want to without screwing up her schedule, and that's always been the case. You just have to see how it works for your child. It is, though, COMPLETELY against Dr. Weissbluth's rules! ;)

As for "sleeping in", I work p/t, so I am at home 2 mornings/week plus weekend. She will nurse between 5 and 6 and go back to sleep on those days and often sleep till 8:30 or 9. That just pushes her morning nap back by an hour or so. Today, I worked, and she was up at 7, ate, played with DH, who is off, and went back to sleep around 9. When I'm home, she won't go down for her a.m. nap till about 10:30 or 11.

Wrighty26

02-05-2007, 09:27 AM

lilo - My experience has been that even if I try to push out bedtime for later than 7, it's not worth it because DS become a crabby monster. His schedule usually isn't interrupted, but if I do wait for DH to get home he usually doesn't want anything to DO with him!

As for waking up --My DH is home with him during the week - so we never had to wake him up to go to work/daycare. My son's schedule was completely erratic until about 5/5.5 months. Up until that point he would wake up some days @ 6 and other days at 8/8:30. Then suddenly he was waking up every day at 7, on his own. This helped him establish a nap schedule. So his typical day is wake up at 7/7:30, nap at 9/9:30 for 2 hours, nap again from 1/1:30 for 2 hours, and then go to bed at 7. Having this kind of schedule is AWESOME for me, because I can actually plan around it. I now make sure that if he is not awake by 7:30 that we wake him up (unless he's sick/had a rough night). Of course, some things don't go to plan, but for the most part he's pretty predictable.

I do hope that my long-winded explanation helps!

lawgirl4

02-05-2007, 10:55 AM

Advice wanted!

I've been reading HSHHC (we go to Weissbluth's practice, so I wanted to be "on board" with their approach) and it's worked wonders for our EBF 3.5 month old DD's daytime sleep. I stick to the 2hr rule, can easily see her sleepy cues, and she goes down for naps pretty much like clockwork.

HOWEVER.

Nighttime sleep is a whole other ballgame. It's MISERABLE. At 2 months she was going to sleep around 9pm after a long nursing session, up at midnight to nurse (a pretty long, thorough session), up around 3 to nurse again, up around 6, and then up around 8.

Lately she has been showing signs of earlier fatigue - 6-7pm - I breastfeed her while singing and rocking in the glider (trying to get a "routine" going), and she falls asleep. About 80% of the time, as soon as I transfer her into her PNP (we have her in the PNP in our room for now - since I still nurse her at night I don't want to have to go to her room to get her) she wakes up, as soon as her body touches the mattress. Then I have to cuddle/rock/nurse her for 10-15 more mins and try again. Sometimes we have to do this multiple times.

Her first stretch of sleep is usually for 1 hour (awake by 9:30-10pm). At that wakeup she is sometimes wide awake, sometimes sleepy. I nurse her again and she'll sleep a little longer, 2.5-3 hours. Up again. I either give her a pacifier or nurse her if she won't take the paci, around 12-1am. Up again in 2 hrs. Up again in 2 hrs. Up again in 2 hrs. Often I will nurse her and she's back to sleep in 5 mins - but the wakeups are so draining, and she's always upset at these wakeups.

While I read her sleepy cues VERY well during the day, I feel like I keep missing them at night. By the time she goes down she's fairly worked up and that makes it hard to nurse her, calm her down, etc... she will scream and cry for 5-10 mins, and it's just very dramatic and upsetting.

Last night I just brought her into the bed with us at 1:45am, nursed her, and let her sleep in the bed for the rest of the night. and voila, she slept for 5 hours straight (she whimpered on 2-3 separate occasions and I just popped the pacifier in her mouth, quieted her immediately)... I *really* don't want to go the co-sleeping route - I do NOT sleep well when she is in the bed (I stay in 1 position basically and my body just aches after 1-2 hrs) and I felt like we had been making such good progress with her daytime sleep... help!

ANY suggestions?!?! I am at such a loss and don't understand how/why her daytime sleep is great but nighttimes are just miserable.

mkvh

02-05-2007, 11:50 AM

lawgirl--I would wager that you need to be putting DD down earlier at night. Try nursing and putting her down BEFORE you think she should be tired or before you see sleepy cues. That should help her a) get a better nursing session in and b) let her relax rather than getting worked up.

Are you still swaddling? If not, that could help keep her asleep a bit more. Also, at about that age, I found out that I was better off with her in the crib with the monitor OFF. It's normal for babies to rouse and then put themselves back to sleep throughout the night (they sleep cycle similar to adults), and DD was NOISY, so hearing her would wake me even when she didn't need me.

Since she only had 1 night feeding last night, she most likely isn't hungry when she's waking, (At least not every time.) but she's having trouble self-soothing. Does she only get upset at the wakings when you go to her? Could you try having DH soothe her (mine rubs her belly and puts her paci back in) so that she doesn't think she needs to nurse? That could be a way to break the cycle.

Hula1974

02-11-2007, 05:10 AM

Does anyone have any good tricks for me?

DS (5 months) has always been a great nighttime sleeper. Getting up once to eat and going right back to sleep. Our schedule right now is this:

6:45pm bedtime
3:30 wake up to eat
6-7 wake up for the day
During the day we still follow the 1.5 -2 hours of wakefullness rule....except when it gets closer to the end of the day.

In the evening he is miserably tired and a nap would turn into bedtime if it's too late. On the other hand, I can't imagine keeping him up later...we watch the clock til 6:30 for that last bottle of the night.

So, in 2 weeks I go back to work. Forget the fact that I won't even be getting home until about 6:20 (DH will have to handle it) and not get to see him much. How do I break him of this 3:30 wake up?

I checked with Dr. W ;) and didn't find any helpful hints since it really sounded to me like he is saying that until 9 months, 1 wake up is fine.

Thoughts??

shortcake

02-11-2007, 07:44 AM

Hula - sorry, can't advise since DS is still not great at 9 months!

Popping in with my own question: he is finally, most of the time, sleeping through the night. A lot of times he wakes up at 5 or so and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to let him CIO then or go in to him? I've tried both, neither seems to work - so I need to stick with one longer but don't know which one!

Also last night he woke at 11 and cried really upset for a while. Since some of our friends have a stomach bug, I went in to check on him after about 15 minutes. He was fine, just wanted me. But typically what should I do at that time? I mean, he was LOUD and in the past when I have let him cry then he just keeps it up for over an hour! Since he's mostly sleeping through that point, should I suspect that something is bothering him and go to him? Or play it tough?

lilo

02-11-2007, 02:14 PM

Nap question: DS is about 3 months now and naps 95% of the time in his swing. Sometimes he'll take a good 2-3 hour nap and sometimes it will be short 45 minute to an hour naps throughout the day.

When should I really try to get him to nap in the crib? I think he's only napped once or twice so far in the crib with success. The other times that I've tried, he'll wake up as soon as his head hits the mattress. He sleeps 100% in his crib at night without any problems but naps are a different story.

TIA! :)

maplekitty

02-21-2007, 05:52 PM

Hi ladies,

well I just bought Weisbluth last night so I havnt read the whole thing yet. My major problem is not getting my 4 mnth old DD to fall asleep, but to sleep longer than 20-45 mins. at night! I'm exhuasted and I dont know how much longer I can handle waking up every hour at night. We're all so tired, because not DD, nor myself nor DH are getting any real sleep!
Sometimes all she needs is her swing music turned back on, and she has one varifiable hunger cry at night around 3-4am. But every other time she just wakes up. I've been letting her just fuss it out (I dont want to say cry it out, because if it gets to real crying then I do go to her), and sometimes she'll put hersef back to sleep.
What can I do to get her to sleep longer!???

BTW, we just started the 2 hours of wakefulness a few days ago, so now shes going down for regular naps every few hours in the day - I'm really hoping this will help....but when?

Bloomwood

02-21-2007, 07:03 PM

The way to the fastest result is CIO. Has she EVER slept for more than an hour? We figured out what DD's longest historical stretch was and used that for the barometer for when we'd go in. Who am I kidding - I'd go in, no "we." ;) For her it was 6 hours, so if she woke up before 6 hours I wouldn't go in, if it was after 6 hours, I'd go in and nurse.

It will be 3 painful nights and a week of adjustment but then you'll feel like a new person. We kept this up until 6.5 months and then cut out that last feeding - she was STTN mostly on her own anyway, so it was obvious she could STTN and didn't need to eat, but sometimes chose not to.

kate's mom

02-22-2007, 05:34 AM

Bloomwood I am in the same place as Maplekitty.
How old was your child when you CIO? How many times was she waking up?
Thanks.

mkvh

02-22-2007, 07:29 AM

Also, maplekitty, you will find that she sleeps better at night when she has better rest during the day. Her night sleep should "consolidate" a bit when you have been sticking to the 2 hour rule for a few days.

One other thing I would recommend is putting the monitor away (if you haven't already). Babies around your DD's age are learning to self-soothe, and they're starting to experience more adult-like sleep cycles where sometimes they rouse but aren't really awake and then cycle into deep sleep again. I had to turn off my monitor because DD was so noisy! Once I did that, I would only hear her when she GENUNIELY was upset/hungry.

Bloomwood

02-22-2007, 08:22 AM

Bloomwood I am in the same place as Maplekitty.
How old was your child when you CIO? How many times was she waking up?
Thanks.

My DD was having issues where she could only sleep in the swing and we needed to wean her as we were taking a plane trip with no swing at the destination. It's not that she was waking up that often, but wouldn't go back to sleep. She was colicky. We also had napping issues - again only the swing would work. Our DD was young, 10 weeks, and yes, I'm sure many CCers gave me the virtual evil eye, but hey, our ped endorsed it. And, I would do it again. Especially because I feel like waiting until they develop object permanence is even harder on them since they actually know you've left them. Not to mention, my quality of life is also worth something.
Gotta go, mobile baby is not happy contained in the exersaucer while I type this! Quelle surprise.

MSH

02-25-2007, 07:14 PM

Kopper

02-26-2007, 05:17 AM

We are having sleep issues. Up until last week DS would wake once during the night usually between 2-4:30am. I would go in an nurse him for 10-12 minutes and then put him back in his crib. Most of the time he was awake but he would never cry out when I put him in his crib. He would settle for a minute and go back to sleep. In the past week he has started crying the minute I put him back in his crib. Last night he cried for 5 minutes and then played in his crib for almost an hour. He was talking to himself and just making noises but not fussing. I didn't go in because he sounded happy, just not sleeping.

2nd issue, he is waking too early. About 3/4 of the time he will wake up at 5 or 5:30am. We start his betime routine at 6:30pm and he is in his crib by 7pm. He is usually asleep by 6:45pm but still nursing. I don't think I can get him to bed earlier since he doesn't wake up from his afternoon nap until 3pm. I think a possible reason he is waking so early is that he is pooping and that keeps him up. It's almost as if he is pooping on schedule everymorning at 5:30am.

Possible other causes are that he is teething and he was sick with rotavirus two weeks ago. Any suggestions as to why he is suddenly crying and not going back to sleep in the middle of the night and why he is waking too early?

mkvh

02-26-2007, 05:59 AM

When you are following the 2 hours of wakefulness 'rule' how long does your DC nap for? We had been doing this up until 2 weeks ago and DS (5mo) would nap for 2 hours at a time, sometimes more (in his swing). Our trouble is getting him down for the nigth. His last nap usually ends at 5-6 and he doesn't go down for the night till almost 10pm, this is with either DH or I doing everything we know how for about an hour to get him down. Mind you when he does go down he sleeps a solid 8 hours, wakes to nurse and then sleeps another 1-2 hours.

How long do you let your DC CIO? Do you stay with them?
MSH--At 5 mo, my DD was starting to have 3 distinct naps during the day. At this point, we started moving a bit away from the 2 hour "rule" and started watching for sleepy cues. Anyway, she would nap anywhere from an hour to 3 hours. Still does have that variability. Is the swing moving? If so, that could artificially be lengthening his naps and messing with his natural sleep rythyms.

Judging from how long it takes you to put him down at night and the duration of the evening routine, I would say that he's actually OVERLY tired (counterintuitive, I know) when you start. If I were you, here's what I'd do:

Wake him between 7 and 8 in the morning. This will allow his a.m. nap to develop a little better. (It sucks, I know--I LOVED the later waking!) He should then go down for his morning nap between 9 and 10. That sets up the early afternoon nap around 1 and leaves room for a little snooze around 5. The evening nap should be short if it happens at all. I would start his bedtime routine NO LATER than 7 at night with the goal of having him down by 8. If it's still a struggle, move that bedtime 30 minutes earlier. (This all is in HSHHC, but I forget exactly where.)

As for CIO, we've not really had to do that. She's been a good self-soother from the beginning. Though I did do it yesterday for a nap--and I got in the shower so I didn't have to hear her.

We are having sleep issues. Up until last week DS would wake once during the night usually between 2-4:30am. I would go in an nurse him for 10-12 minutes and then put him back in his crib. Most of the time he was awake but he would never cry out when I put him in his crib. He would settle for a minute and go back to sleep. In the past week he has started crying the minute I put him back in his crib. Last night he cried for 5 minutes and then played in his crib for almost an hour. He was talking to himself and just making noises but not fussing. I didn't go in because he sounded happy, just not sleeping.

2nd issue, he is waking too early. About 3/4 of the time he will wake up at 5 or 5:30am. We start his betime routine at 6:30pm and he is in his crib by 7pm. He is usually asleep by 6:45pm but still nursing. I don't think I can get him to bed earlier since he doesn't wake up from his afternoon nap until 3pm. I think a possible reason he is waking so early is that he is pooping and that keeps him up. It's almost as if he is pooping on schedule everymorning at 5:30am.

Possible other causes are that he is teething and he was sick with rotavirus two weeks ago. Any suggestions as to why he is suddenly crying and not going back to sleep in the middle of the night and why he is waking too early?
Ugh--we just dealt with an illness induced sleep regression. No fun at all!

Sounds like your DS has turned a necessary night waking (to nurse) into playtime. According to HSHHC, that means he's most likely not really needing to eat. (If they're hungry, they'll nurse and go right back to sleep.) So you COULD cut the nursing out altogether and let him CIO or go to him and soothe him but not nurse him. Weissbluth would say that he's now waking up for your company rather than nutrition!

As for the too early waking, from what I've read, leaving him in his crib until the desired waking time is the way to go. Pretty soon they get the message that they stay in bed till that time and adjust their schedules accordingly. By going to him, you're training him to wake at that time by rewarding him with your company (again, like above). I think that's what Bloom does with her DD. My DD often wakes at 5 (in bed by 7:30) to eat but goes right back to sleep, so it's more of a night waking for nuring for us.

Good luck getting back on track!

Wrighty26

02-26-2007, 07:02 AM

MSH - Ditto to everything mkvh said! (Very well said, btw :D). I was just going to post the exact same thing - except that at 5.5 months DS dropped down to 2 naps a day (9-11 and 1-3). Waking up between 7-8 sucks (especially on the weekend) - but the consolidated/regular nap schedule ROCKS. I can plan stuff during the day now and he knows that's it's naptime!Bedtime is also no later than 7 for us (on most nights), otherwise he's a crank monster. Sleep DOES beget sleep -- it becomes increasingly obvious this is true around 5-6 months.

mimieliza

02-26-2007, 01:28 PM

Bloomwood

02-26-2007, 01:41 PM

Bloomwood - You mentioned weaning your child from sleeping in the swing. We're working on this now (we have an air trip in June, not to mention car trips at this point are a PITA because we have to fit the Fisher Price monstrosity in the trunk) so I'm interested in how you did it.

I put DD down in her crib this morning for nap time. I often put her in her swing sleepy but awake, and she falls asleep. This did not work with the crib - she cried for 20 minute and got extremely agitated (and broke my heart) until I went and got her. I nursed her until she was sound asleep and put her back in the crib. She's been sleeping now for about 30 minutes. Her normal nap length is two hours.

To complicate matters, I normally take her to work with me, so she naps in a swing at work (yes, we have two Ocean Wonders swings). Will it confuse her to continue napping in the swing at work, but sleep in the crib for naps at home and nighttime? Or should I get her a pack and play or something resembling a crib for the office? I REALLY need the solid two-hour nap while I'm at work (or rather, I need her to take that nap).

We did it cold turkey with tears! Honestly, it was hard but I knew it would be short-lived and she'd be a happier baby in a very short time - not to mention my own sanity. My ped told me that if she was crying b/c she was in the crib then she was expressing an opinion and if she was old enough to have an opinion, she was old enough to sleep train. I would nurse her until very drowsy or just asleep and then put her in the crib. I don't think the swing at work is that big of a deal because she realizes she is somewhere different and can figure out the napping environment is different. However, if you are going to continue taking her to work and wanting her to nap there, then it might be worth switching to a pnp since she'll ultimately outgrow the swing anyway.

Just to say it again, we did the STing all at once - naps and bedtime - at 10 weeks. It took less than a week. We didn't do it to get her STTN, but to put herself to sleep and to sleep in the crib exclusively. After a week or so, I'd lay her in her crib at naptime/bedtime and she'd roll over and fall asleep. Sometimes she'd fall asleep nursing, other times she was "drowsy but awake," either way, she'd just go to sleep. And, sleep for hours. She'd typically do a 3 hour nap in the am and 2 hours in the afternoon. At night, she'd wake up between 6 and 8 hours, nurse and go right back down until her second waking for nursing. She slept until 7. Of course, we'd have our nights when she'd sleep straight through or when she'd have extra wakings or not sleep well, but then, so do I!

One piece of advice: I think the most important part of successful sleep training is routine. So figure out what you want your routine to be (nothing too complex or long) and stick to it from day one. Once you have established the routine - at least a month or so - then you can start cheating. Like, part of our routine is bath time, but now, we sometimes skip it and she sleeps just fine anyway.

Feel free to ask me anything else. Good luck!

Franni

02-26-2007, 02:34 PM

mimieliza DD1 used to sleep in a swing and we had to wean at around 3 months. That wasn't too hard though. For us the difficulty lay in putting herself to sleep without our help. Eventually we did CIO cold turkey.

If you want to continue using the swing at the office and you have trained her to sleep in a crib at home, I would put her in the swing and not activate it. So it'll be motionless sleep like she has in her crib.

Sleep training part deux The time has come for us to start planning to sleep train DD2. I am not opposed to CIO (obviously since I did that with DD1), but I am unsure if the crying will prevent DD1 from getting to sleep herself. Right not, DD1 sleeps in my bedroom and DD2 is sleeping in a separate room, but noise travels. Anyone with any experience in this?

shortcake

02-26-2007, 04:37 PM

Franni - Yep, it stinks. DD1 has had to suffer with being woken up by DS but there's just nothing I can do about it. The stinky thing is DS is proving a bear to ST and so there is a lot more crying overall than I had anticipated. He's 9 months (we started letting him cry a loooong time ago, and it seems to work off and on) and last night cried for 2.5 hours. Ugh.

MichelleRenee

02-26-2007, 06:10 PM

I just bought HSHHC tonight and plan to read it tomorrow. Tristan sleeps OK at night, but not great. He has gone 8 hours without waking before, but not for awhile. He goes down very easily around 8-9pm. (Usually a little drowsy, but sometimes he seems wide awake.) He falls asleep on his own within 10-15 minutes and usually sleeps 5 hours before waking.

The problems we are having are that he doesn't nap well during the day. Sometimes he does, but most of the time he takes 30 minute cat naps throughout the day. And at night after his first waking he is up every two hours. It's like he never gets back into that deep sleep he starts out in.

I'll be back after I've had a chance to read!

Tracy

02-27-2007, 05:04 PM

I don't post here very often, but I do keep up with this thread. I am hoping that someone might be able to ofter me some advice. My DS is 12 months old. He has been a fantastic sleeper for at least the last 6 months or so. We normally give him a bath at 6:00 and he is in bed 6:20 or so. At night, he usually falls asleep within 5-15 minutes, if not instantly. He has never cried or gotten upset at being put down in his crib. He'll wake up the next morning between 6:00-6:30. His naps have been a little inconsistent since January. He keeps going back and forth between 1 and 2 naps. If he doesn't nap well, we'll typically start our bedtime routine about 30 minutes early.

A couple of weeks ago, we had company and DS got a cold. These two things really seemed to throw his schedule off. He started waking up crying (not typical) between 4:30-5:00. I would let him cry for a bit, but he would get VERY angry. As a result of waking so early, he was ready for a nap by 7:30 or so and would sleep for 2.5 hours. He then would not take an afternoon nap. So, we would start our bedtime routine by 5:15 and would have him in bed and asleep by 5:45.

On Friday, we began having problems getting him to sleep at night. We would put him in bed and he would fall asleep right away. 20 minutes later though, he woke up screaming. We let him cry for awhile, but finally went in once it was evident that he wasn't going to go back to bed. I laid him down and put his mobile on. He fell asleep right away, only to wake up 20 minutes later. This happened again on Saturday, only it lasted longer. So, I get out HSHHC. It was evident that he was overtired. I took the advice to limit the morning nap to no longer than an hour and a half and to have him in bed by 5:30. Sunday night we have him in bed by 5:30. I think that it was almost 7 by the time he was asleep. It was clear that 5:30 was too late. We've been putting him to bed at 5:00 since then and his naps seem to be improving, but he is still having trouble getting (staying) asleep at night. He feel asleep immediately on Monday, 6:00 on Tuesday, and tonight he was up at 5:15, fell back asleep, and was up again at 6:15.

I'm sorry that this post has gotten to be so lengthy. Does anyone have any in site? Do I keep putting him to bed at 5? It seems so early to me. Also, in the last week or so, he goes absolutely crazy whenever I put him in his crib. He gets very angry, but settles down within 30 seconds-a minutes of me leaving his room. Is this normal?

shortcake

02-27-2007, 05:24 PM

Tracy- not much to say since we are in the throes of horrible sleep woes with my 9 month old. But one thing that struck me was that he settles down after you leave the room - I bet he is just voicing his anger at you leaving. Maybe a lot of it is him getting older and more opinionated?

Your post makes me wonder if we should put DS to bed earlier tonight - we'd been doing 6:30 but I think I will try 6:00 and see if that helps. I know he is so tired.

rosa727

02-27-2007, 05:50 PM

I am hoping for some advice on naps. My DS sleeps very well at night. He is only 3 months old (today!) and he sleeps from 7:30-8PM until 6-7AM each night (with no wakings). He has been doing this consistently for 2 weeks (let's hope it lasts!). But he has always been a good night sleeper. The problem is, he is horrible with naps! I try to put him down for the first one about 1-2 hours after waking. And I try to follow the 2 hour rule. He goes to sleep OK, but he wakes up after about 1/2 hour. By the end of the day he is very cranky. I'm not sure if anyone has advice on how to get him to nap longer. I guess MichelleRenee has the short napping problem too. Anyway, I have not read the whole book yet, but I am trying to follow the rules. Any suggestions?

MichelleRenee

02-27-2007, 06:04 PM

I am just wondering when a new mom is supposed to find time to read....

Wrighty26

02-27-2007, 06:57 PM

Rosa and MichelleRenee - If you have the book, I would just recommend reading Chapter 3 (months 0-4). Skip the testimonies (they are somewhat confusing anyways!) and fast forward to pages 224 to 239.

Also, are there any "environmental" things keeping your boys awake? I know that around 3 months things like loud noises and bright lights started to keep DS up. I bought a noise machine and covered the window in his room so it was really really dark.

HTH! Reading with an infant can be tough!!

Rancid13

02-27-2007, 07:06 PM

I am just wondering when a new mom is supposed to find time to read....

Read while you're nursing/feeding. ;) That's when I sneak it in. I let him nurse as long as he wants in the evening after I get home from work, while I read several pages.

mkvh

02-28-2007, 06:44 AM

I keep HSHHC in the bathroom :o Hey...it's a way to sneak in a couple paragraphs of the applicable chapter or troubleshoot!!

Tracy--That bedtime seems REALLLLLY early for a permanent bedtime. I really think the underlying issue is the timing of is naps. He's essentially awake all day, which make sense that he's tired by 5:30. Have you tried putting him down for an early afternoon nap and leaving him in the crib for an hour, whether he sleeps or not? I'm thinking he still needs 2 naps but doesn't want to take the 2nd. And ITA with the PP who said he's just getting more opinionated!

Rosa--I would try leaving him in his crib for an hour unless he gets really angry. He may get the message that naps should be an hour. If he doesn't go back to sleep, make the next awake interval shorter (1 hour) and nap again.

Michelle--Other than what I mentioned for Rosa, I think Tristan's bedtime is too late. We were at a 7:30 bedtime by the time C was 4 months old. Going to bed earlier may still result in a night waking (but usually doesn't), but it will help him start to consolidate his sleep. You should be seeing a solid morning nap starting pretty soon, and getting him well-rested at night is the first step towards this.

rosa727

02-28-2007, 06:57 AM

Tracy

02-28-2007, 09:43 AM

But one thing that struck me was that he settles down after you leave the room - I bet he is just voicing his anger at you leaving. Maybe a lot of it is him getting older and more opinionated?

Your post makes me wonder if we should put DS to bed earlier tonight - we'd been doing 6:30 but I think I will try 6:00 and see if that helps. I know he is so tired.

I'm sure that you are right, that he is just letting us know that he isn't happy about being left. If you could hear him though, it sends a chill down your spine. I am happy to say that he didn't make a sound as I put him down just now or this morning. Maybe he's over it? I hope that putting your DS to bed a little earlier worked for you.

mkvh Thanks for the response. I agree, 5:00-5:30 is entirely too early for a permanent bedtime. From what I understand, HSHHC was suggesting an extremely early bedtime when they are really overtired and need to catch up on sleep. When we put him to bed at 5:00, he is still getting up at the same time that he would if we put him down at 7:00, so it's allowing him to get a little more sleep. I too think that he still needs two naps. I'm not giving up on that yet. If he doesn't nap in the morning, I usually leave him for 20-30 minutes, but I always give him at least an hour in the afternoon.

His naps were really screwed up before starting the earlier bedtime. They are starting to get a little better. Yesterday, he took a short morning nap (8:40-9:00) and then slept from 12:30-3:15. We were going to keep him up a little later, but he got very tired around 4:45. Today he didn't take a morning nap. I just put him down at 12:25 and haven't heard a sound from him.

MSH

02-28-2007, 09:49 AM

Thank you for the advise everyone. We started really STing on Monday and so far so good. He seems to respond best to a 7pm bedtime, waking around 7am. Goes down for his first nap between 9 and 10 and his 2nd nap from 2-4. We've only had one truely horrible experience with getting him down, which was his Monday afternoon nap. He cried for 1½ hours before I gave in and let him nap in his swing. However, he went down without any trouble that night and yesterday he took his first two naps without trouble.

Plus he is so much happier when he wakes up, makes it all worth it.

maplekitty

02-28-2007, 11:56 AM

Hi everyone, I just wanted to come back and update on our ST'ing!
I'm happy to report that Robyn is STTN!!! :D
It took a good two weeks of her crying at bedtime, and I did a "modified" CIO, with standing at her bedside with a hand on her tummy while she cried (I think that's a Sleep Lady technique that I heard from a friend). The first few days I set a timer for 5mins, and if she was still crying I'd pick her up, snuggle her and then put her back down. After about 3 days, her crying turned into fussing...and now there is almost no fight at bedtime!
I think the "sleep begets sleep" rule is key, and the early bedtime!
But now my little one is sleeping from 7pm to 7am and I feel like a person again with a full nights sleep! YAY! :D

mkvh

02-28-2007, 01:32 PM

mkvh: Thanks for the suggestion. I guess it is too early to even be considering CIO, but you are saying to leave him in the crib as long as he is not crying? I'll definitely give it a try but Grady tends to get pretty mad quickly when left in the crib. It took him about 20 minutes to calm down yesterday once he started crying!
We STILL don't CIO completely (at 8m), and if you don't feel comfortable, then yes, leave him unless he gets upset. He may fall back asleep. Otherwise, just make the next nap sooner. I know what you mean--C can really work herself up, too!

mkvh Thanks for the response. I agree, 5:00-5:30 is entirely too early for a permanent bedtime. From what I understand, HSHHC was suggesting an extremely early bedtime when they are really overtired and need to catch up on sleep. When we put him to bed at 5:00, he is still getting up at the same time that he would if we put him down at 7:00, so it's allowing him to get a little more sleep. I too think that he still needs two naps. I'm not giving up on that yet. If he doesn't nap in the morning, I usually leave him for 20-30 minutes, but I always give him at least an hour in the afternoon.

His naps were really screwed up before starting the earlier bedtime. They are starting to get a little better. Yesterday, he took a short morning nap (8:40-9:00) and then slept from 12:30-3:15. We were going to keep him up a little later, but he got very tired around 4:45. Today he didn't take a morning nap. I just put him down at 12:25 and haven't heard a sound from him.
Yay Tracy for some success!!! You're right that the early bedtime is a catch-up mechanism.

HIP HIP HOOOOORAYYYYY for MSH and maplekitty!!!! Isn't the sleep begets sleep phenomenon CRAZY? (But wonderful?)

MichelleRenee

02-28-2007, 03:35 PM

At first we were just so happy that Tristan's bedtime *finally* moved up from 11 pm to 8-9 pm. Honestly, I hate the idea of putting him to bed before 8 pm because that only gives me a couple of hours with him before he goes to bed. But, if that's what he needs then I am willing to do it.

The only problem is his evening nap. He seems to fall asleep around 5:30-6:00 for a nap each evening and then wakes up around 7-7:30. (It is 6:30 now and he has been asleep for 45 minutes) So after he wakes up from that nap I don't know what to do. Do I feed him and put him right back to bed?

I finally read through the parts of HSHHC that I think apply to us and I get the major concept of it. As of tomorrow I am going to try to get DH and our babysitter to start him on a schedule of napping after 2 hours of being awake. I hope it helps. I think fixing his naps will do wonders for him!

maplekitty

02-28-2007, 03:58 PM

michelle - fixing the naps worked wonder for us!! what I thought were hungry cues, I now realize were tird cues and now she goes down to sleep for naps so well and I'm amazed at how much she sleeps during the day and *then* sleeps all night!!! :D

I think if Tristan wakes up after his 6:30 "nap", feed him and do bedtime routine and put him right back to sleep. Once his nap schedule is fixed, I dont think he'll be needing that late "nap".
It sucks that you dont get much time with him at night, and I feel that same way about DH. As soon as he walks in the door, I hand off DD because I know he has maybe only 2 hours of time with her before shes down for the night. I think just look at it this way...the earlier baby learns to sleep well now, the better time you'll have with him when he's older because you wont be fighting to put him to sleep whn he's a toddler (atleast...that's what I hope will happen!)

MichelleRenee

03-01-2007, 05:26 AM

Tristan woke up from his nap around 7. He wasn't hungry so I just held him and talked to him until 7:30. At 7:30 I put him in his crib with a pacifier and his Ocean Wonders Aquarium playing. He fussed a few times when he lost his pacifier, but was asleep within 20 minutes.

Unfortunately he kept waking up between then and midnight. He has his first cold and I think he just didn't feel good. After midnight he got a 5 hour stretch of sleep though.

Should I continue trying to get him on a schedule while he is sick, or wait until he is feeling better?

mkvh

03-01-2007, 05:40 AM

Michelle--maplekitty is right on that that late nap will move earlier or go away once he's well rested. As for ST when he's sick, sleep in our house goes down the drain. I would stick to the new schedule since he needs his rest more than ever. But don't worry about anything else in terms of ST. Hope he feels better soon!

MichelleRenee

03-01-2007, 07:12 PM

We are just getting started on all of this and I am a little confused. If I wait until 8-9pm and put Tristan to bed he will go in his crib, take a pacifier and fall asleep on his own with no problems. If I try moving his bedtime up to 7-7:30 he fusses, dozes off, wakes up, fusses.... tonight we did that for about 2 hours. Then at night he was hungry so I fed him a bottle and he went right to sleep. (I tried a bottle earlier but he wouldn't take it)

I think he needs that last bottle to fall asleep for the night but he won't take it before he is hungry, so I am not sure what to do. Part of me thinks that if he goes down so easily between 8-9 pm then that must be his natural bedtime. I don't feel comfortable moving his bedtime up if it means I am forcing him to go to sleep when he goes to sleep just fine a little bit later.

:confused:

maplekitty

03-01-2007, 09:28 PM

michelle - its not going to happen right away and its not going to happen without some protest. babies form habits very easily, and he's gotten into the habit of a later bedtime. this just means its going to take a little extra pressuring to get him to break that habit. just keep trying to put him to sleep at 7 and be strong, be persistant. robyn took a good 2 weeks before she finally accepted the earlier bedtime and stopped crying when i put her down. you can do it!!! ((hugs))

Wrighty26

03-02-2007, 02:24 AM

michelle - if you gradually move back his bedtime (in 15 min increments), he will adjust much easier. that way he is taking his bottle at bedtime.

rosa - yes, darkening B's room really helped! what we did was buy a cheapo room darkening shade from walmart -- and instead of hanging it we taped it to the window - behind the blinds. of course, his room is in the back of the house so we don't care how it looks on the outside. a urtain eould probably work too :p

rosa727

03-02-2007, 10:29 AM

MichelleRenee

03-02-2007, 10:52 AM

Thank you all. I am thinking Tristan's cold is interfering with everything right now so once that gets cleared up we will start working on his bedtime routine again. (last night he went down at 7:30, napped/fussed until 9, ate, fell asleep, woke up at 1, woke up at 3, woke up at 4.....)

For now the sitter and I have agreed to try to put him down for a nap after every 2 hours of being awake. I helped her create an environment at her house as much like his crib at home as possible. She will even be playing him the same music I play for him at bedtime. I am hoping it will work.

maplekitty

03-02-2007, 01:14 PM

Thanks Michelle! I may try doing the same thing - his bedroom is on the back of the house too!

I have another question about naps. If DS is getting about 11-12 hours of solid sleep each night, how much more does he need in the way of naps? He only naps about 3-4 hours between the hours of 7AM and 7PM (he usually sleeps about 7:30 PM-7AM). Is that enough? Maybe I am trying to force him to sleep TOO much during the day. If he gets good sleep at night, shouldn't he need less during the day? Does anyone know about how much sleep a 3 month old needs?

According to HSHHC, "sleep begets sleep" - the more they sleep during the day, the more they sleep at night. And "the earlier to bed, the longer they sleep".
I couldnt agree with these philosophies more! When DD has all her naps every 2 hours during the day, and gets to bed before 7pm, she definitely sleeps better at night.
Think of everything your little guys is expereincing and learning throughout the day. He's little brain is constantly taking in more and more info, learning new things, discovering the world...he's going to be pooped every few hours regardles of how much he sleeps at night!

rosa727

03-02-2007, 01:53 PM

IzzyJune2006

03-02-2007, 02:02 PM

maplekitty: Thanks. I do try to put him down every 2 hours or so, and he does go to sleep. But he usually only sleeps for 45 minutes to an hour. So it ends up being about 3-4 hours per day. He sleeps very well at night, so I am not sure whether I need to change anything. He does not seem cranky (except at first when I am trying to get him to go down for a nap). But I also want to be sure he is getting the sleep he needs. I just hear some people talk about 2 hour naps, and he almost NEVER does that.

DD was like that as well. It seems like we were always getting ready for a nap! She was on the nap every two hours until about 6 months old I think. Her naps used to be pretty short (35-55 min). They seem to have become longer on average, though the range can still be 30 - 120 min. She's now on 2-3 naps per day. She still does better with 3.

rosa727

03-02-2007, 02:05 PM

Izzy: Oh, good to hear I am not the only one with a "catnapper". It just does feel like that is his natural pattern. Although I do hope he consolidates sleep a bit more because I feel like we are always getting ready for a nap :p!

maplekitty

03-02-2007, 05:24 PM

robyn is a catnapper too! max 1 hour.....I'm so jealous of those babies who sleep for 2 hours!!! :p every baby is different and if your little guy is not cranky and is sleeping well at night then i dont think you have anything to worry about :)

Wrighty26

03-02-2007, 07:54 PM

catnappers - Naps should change for you guys around 5-6 months (though Weissbluth does say it can take longer). The morning nap will consolidate first, and then the afternoon nap. Braeden went from taking 4 45min - 1 hour naps a day to taking 2 2-hour naps a day (sometimes he takes a 3rd nap for an hour, but that's rare). It just clicked one day. The 4 catnaps drove me nuts because I tried to make sure he always slept in his crib. Just keep up with the consistency and it will pay off! :D

maybebaby

03-03-2007, 07:54 PM

I was so reluctant to sleep train but I have to admit it has made my life 100 times better, and I feel that DD is now finally getting the right amount of sleep.

DD is eight months old.

She goes to bed easily at 6:30 and takes two naps beautifully during the day (a short forty-five minute nap around 10 am and a 2 1/2 hour nap at 1:30 pm). She gets up for the day about 6 am. The problem is she is still often waking twice per night, usually around 9:30 pm and at 2 am. I often feed her a bottle at 9:30 and she goes right back to sleep. Is there any thing I can do about the 2 am waking? She often does not even seem hungry if I offer her milk. Should I let her CIO or will she eventually get rid of this waking on her own if I pick her up and rock her a bit?

I'm not at that 'desperate' I need to sleep point anymore though it would be nice if she slept through the night.

Also, has anyone read the Sleep Lady? Is that an entirely different method than Weissbluth?

rosa727

03-04-2007, 02:00 PM

MichelleRenee

03-04-2007, 05:46 PM

This weekend was my first chance to really monitor and work on Tristan's napping. Yesterday I put him down afterevery two hours of being awake and he actually took really good naps. (even a 2 hour one!) I wrote down all of his naptimes and all of his eating times which I am going to put on a chart. The chart is going to be 7 columns (one for every day of the week) and each column will have a cell for every 15 minute period of the day. That way I can color in the times he sleeps and times he eats to get a clear picture of his daily patterns.

Anyways, his napping also went well today, although it was slightly distubed by DH doing some noisy home repairs. I still think his cold is waking him up at night though. He wakes up when he starts coughing. Hopefully he will get better soon so he can get better sleep at night!

mkvh

03-05-2007, 10:50 AM

Well the napping is going well - Grady is taking about 3-4 45 minute-1.5 hour naps per day. And the night sleep is still great - STTN consistently from 7:30PM-6:30AM. My question is this - when I can tell he is getting sleepy (using the 2 hour rule and looking for sleep cues), I swaddle him and give him the pacifier, and rock him to sleep (he still doesn't really go to sleep on his own at this point, which doesn't concern me). I really don't mind rocking him at all, but he usually cries for 1-5 minutes when I first swaddle him before he calms down and drifts off. Is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? I just feel bad that he gets upset, but of course he needs his sleep. Is it just something he will probably get more and more used to?
Woo hooo! That's AWESOME, rosa! Grady could be protesting because he's fighting sleep--slightly overly tired. Try starting your pre-nap routine 5-15 minutes earlier and see if you still get that result. OR he may just not like being swaddled! They get opinions quickly!

This weekend was my first chance to really monitor and work on Tristan's napping. Yesterday I put him down afterevery two hours of being awake and he actually took really good naps. (even a 2 hour one!) I wrote down all of his naptimes and all of his eating times which I am going to put on a chart. The chart is going to be 7 columns (one for every day of the week) and each column will have a cell for every 15 minute period of the day. That way I can color in the times he sleeps and times he eats to get a clear picture of his daily patterns.

Anyways, his napping also went well today, although it was slightly distubed by DH doing some noisy home repairs. I still think his cold is waking him up at night though. He wakes up when he starts coughing. Hopefully he will get better soon so he can get better sleep at night!
Yippee Yipppeeee!!! Awesome! Have you elevated the head of his crib and used a humidifier? That helped with C's coughing. It sucks.

I was so reluctant to sleep train but I have to admit it has made my life 100 times better, and I feel that DD is now finally getting the right amount of sleep.

DD is eight months old.

She goes to bed easily at 6:30 and takes two naps beautifully during the day (a short forty-five minute nap around 10 am and a 2 1/2 hour nap at 1:30 pm). She gets up for the day about 6 am. The problem is she is still often waking twice per night, usually around 9:30 pm and at 2 am. I often feed her a bottle at 9:30 and she goes right back to sleep. Is there any thing I can do about the 2 am waking? She often does not even seem hungry if I offer her milk. Should I let her CIO or will she eventually get rid of this waking on her own if I pick her up and rock her a bit?

I'm not at that 'desperate' I need to sleep point anymore though it would be nice if she slept through the night.

Also, has anyone read the Sleep Lady? Is that an entirely different method than Weissbluth?
No Sleep Lady here...

If I were you, I would eliminate the 2a.m. wake up. She's waking up for the pleasure of your company, and that could become a long-term habit. If you're not comfortable CIO, you could go to her but not take her out of the crib. And then after she start soothing herself, then you could go in the room only, then outside the door...etc. Just a thought.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just have to share a little victory of ours... It's been over a week since I've had to go back upstairs for a pacifier replace, etc., when putting C down for the night!!! I put her in her crib, give her her lovey and her pacifier, wind the music box twice, and walk out. Woo!

Now to eliminate the 5a.m. wake up...

MichelleRenee

03-05-2007, 11:50 AM

Yep.The crib is elevated and the humidifier is running. Unfortunately after a weekend of great naps we had the worst night in a long time. 8pm-1am was OK. then he woke up to eat at 1. Woke up to eat at 3. Stayed up for a couple of hours and then finally went back to sleep. Then as soon as he got the sitter's he fell asleep and had been asleep for 2.5 hours when I talked to her.

The poor guy is just so congested and constipated and he is teething. I am actually impressed that it isn't much worse!

Parrothead

03-07-2007, 09:22 AM

I lent my HSSHC book out to a friend -- can anyone tell me what Weissbluth says about how to handle the time change?

Amaye

03-07-2007, 12:22 PM

Just have to share a little victory of ours... It's been over a week since I've had to go back upstairs for a pacifier replace, etc., when putting C down for the night!!! I put her in her crib, give her her lovey and her pacifier, wind the music box twice, and walk out. Woo!

Now to eliminate the 5a.m. wake up...

Please come back and let me know how the elimination of the 5am goes. DD goes down at 6.30ish and wakes up at 4-5am for a bottle. I should not be complaining as it is only once but I don't know if she really needs to get up. I'm not sure how to eliminate that wakeup.......

mkvh

03-07-2007, 12:59 PM

Will do, Amaye. We're hit or miss with it, so it should be interesting. Last night it was 4 a.m. AND 5:30. Fun. Just when I thought we were rounding a corner, we've been fighting sleep like it's our job.

Tracy

03-08-2007, 05:44 AM

Just thought that I would come in and give an update on our situation. DS is a new baby! It took for nights of going to bed at 5:00 for him to return to normal. On the fourth night, all of the crying and wakings stopped and he stopping getting up at 5:00 (even slept until 6:50 one morning). Over the course of the week, we gradually moved back to his normal bedtime.

Tracy

03-08-2007, 05:48 AM

I lent my HSSHC book out to a friend -- can anyone tell me what Weissbluth says about how to handle the time change?

I just looked. He says to go on with your normal routine, following the new time. So if your DC normally goes to bed at 6:30, still put them down at 6:30(new clock time).

aprilshowers

03-08-2007, 05:55 AM

We eliminated the 5 am wakeup about 2 months ago, when DD was just over 10 months old. Unfortunately, ever since, DD has woken for the day anywhere from 5:30-6 (she goes down at 7). I try not to nurse her until 6 but by then she is definitely up for the day. Good luck! It is definitely the most difficult waking to eliminate and some days I wonder if we'd be better off having kept it and just getting another hour or so of sleep after (though in our case DH is up for work at 6:15 so that was disturbing her - if your family can sleep in later you may have better luck!). Of course it is much nicer to stay and nurse in the cozy bed at 6 than to get up to go to DD's room at 5!

mkvh

03-08-2007, 06:01 AM

Amaye

03-08-2007, 07:53 AM

Wooo hooo Tracy!!

aprilshowers--thanks for the info! I know what you mean about nursing cozily in bed--that's what we do at 5 now, and she goes right back to sleep. There's part of me that just wants to deal with it. Although she's been getting up at 6:30-7 even WITH the 5 a.m. feeding...

That's exactly what is happening with us too!! She does go back to sleep after the 5am wakeup but still wakes up for the day by 6.30-7 which is driving me nuts!

Ade

03-08-2007, 12:19 PM

I have gone ahead and ordered the book b/c I am starting to get desperate with DS's terrible sleeping patterns. While I am waiting fo my copy to arrive I was wondering if you could address a few of my concerns:

- DS is 4 months and exclusively BF. He has never gone more than a 6 hour stretch without eating, and he's only done that twice. I am amazed to hear of so many babies doing 12 hour sleep stretches. It just doesn't seem like a possibilty for DS as when he wakes up to eat, he is genuinely hungry. He gulps the milk down and then goes back to bed. I wouldn't ever want to deprive him of food when he is truely hungry.

- I am not a fan of CIO and just can't do it. Will that make this book a complete waste for me?

- DS currently sleeps between a baby hammock in my room and my bed (I take him from the hammock when he wakes up to nurse and often am too tired to transfer him back). Does this sleeping arrangement pose a problem with this method?

- Based on the two points above, it seems like the sleep scheduling might be the only aspect of this method that I am able to employ, do you think this alone could help DS sleep better at night.

Currently, DS sleeps from 8-~12, then wakes up anywhere from every 2 hours to every hour after that. I can usually get him back to sleep pretty easily each time, but this morning I had to get up and go rock him back to sleep at 5:30 AM, then he only slept for another hour, ouch! I am working full time, so this schedule is killing me. I'd love for him to sleep longer and more solidly, but I'm not willing to let him CIO or not eat during the night. Am I just screwed?

MichelleRenee

03-08-2007, 12:29 PM

Ade: I don't have any advice... I am new to all of this myself! Good luck though. I also work full time so it is very hard when I have to wake up multiple times at night. Tristan is also very hungry when he wakes up. He will finish off 4-5 ounces, so I don't want to force him to stop eating if he is truly hungry!

Good luck to you!

Ade

03-08-2007, 12:58 PM

Thanks Michelle. From what I've read, your situation sounds very similar to mine. In fact, I stole your 15 minute schedule sheet and am using it for the first time today. I am hoping that by charting everything we can start to notice patterns and make improvements. Which reminds me of two other questions:

- What do you do when your schedule gets disrupted like when traveling or with evening plans. I'm trying to follow the schedule as much as possible during the day, but we went out to dinner last night and are going to a friend's house tonight. So, no way to do his evening routine and get him to bed before 8.

- What do you do when they are teething. DS is teething like crazy lately and I know it is hurting him. I'm trying to use Ambosol and give him a little bit of Tylenol when it gets really bad, but both are only temporary. I can't help but think that his latest bout of bad sleeping may be related to his teeth.

mobox

03-08-2007, 01:02 PM

Rosa - I think that crying before sleeping is pretty common. No matter if Sam is tired, overtired or not tired, he still does this little cry thing before napping. It usually lasts less than 2 minutes and then he's off in la la land.

IzzyJune2006

03-08-2007, 01:35 PM

Ade
DD is 9 months and still wakes up to eat (and is genuinely hungry) about every 5-6 hours. I doubt the majority of babies sleep 12 hours straight at 4 months.
The book has suggested approaches for CIO, non-CIO and somewhere in between. It takes into consideration co-sleeping and breastfeeding. It will not be a waste. If nothing else, you will learn to improve the daytime nap routine which presumably should improve night sleeping as well.
In my experience, I wish I had read the book when DD was 4 months. I think there was a sweet spot around 5 months where I could have easily trained her to sleep in the crib. I started to notice change in her sleeping behavior but I didn't act on it. I too was against CIO, but after too many nights of not sleeping (being a working mom), I gave in around 6 months. It worked for us.

This may not be any consolation... but you do get used to living with less sleep. Some nights are better and make up for the others.

Ade

03-08-2007, 02:15 PM

Ade
DD is 9 months and still wakes up to eat (and is genuinely hungry) about every 5-6 hours. I doubt the majority of babies sleep 12 hours straight at 4 months.
That's what I tell myself to make me feel better about how bad he sleeps. I just get so sick of people telling me that their baby was sleeping through the night by 4 months and I just need to CIO. And it is amazes me of how many people say their babies do or did sleep this much at this age.

The book has suggested approaches for CIO, non-CIO and somewhere in between. It takes into consideration co-sleeping and breastfeeding. It will not be a waste. If nothing else, you will learn to improve the daytime nap routine which presumably should improve night sleeping as well.
Good to know. I have the Sears sleep book and it also suggests sleep scheduling. Although it also says that baby will probably continue to wake to up until 2 years :eek: Hopefully this method will help speed that up.

[QUOTE]In my experience, I wish I had read the book when DD was 4 months. I think there was a sweet spot around 5 months where I could have easily trained her to sleep in the crib. I started to notice change in her sleeping behavior but I didn't act on it. I too was against CIO, but after too many nights of not sleeping (being a working mom), I gave in around 6 months. It worked for us.[\QUOTE]
There are time at night that I get tempted to try it! But, then my mom guilt kicks in and I can't leave him crying. Good to know I might not be too late in trying to change his habit, I was starting to feel like that might be the case! With CIO, how do you know to distinguish between a hunger cry and just fussing?

[QUOTE]This may not be any consolation... but you do get used to living with less sleep. Some nights are better and make up for the others[\QUOTE]
This definitely is our case. Sunday night he slept like a champ, only woke at 3 and 5 to eat. I felt WONDERFUL on Monday because that wasthe first 6 hour stretch I had gotten since Christmas. Then, Monday was one of his worst nights ever with him waking up every hour. Last night was a bit better, but he still woke almost evey hour from midnight on. I'm now trying to track everything (when and how long he is eating and sleeping, behavior during the day, sleep behavior the night before, poo color and what I'm eating (I'm suspecting that he is having some food allergies)). I'm hoping that some pattern will emerge that will give me some clue of what he'll respond best to. hopfully it will work. But, I have a sinking suspicion that even if it does work, I'm sure somthing will pop up that will throw it all to hell and we'll be back to our current situation again. :(

IzzyJune2006

03-08-2007, 04:00 PM

With CIO, how do you know to distinguish between a hunger cry and just fussing?

Some say that you can distinguish. It might depend on the baby. The way I did it was just to make sure she had eaten enough, was changed, and not sick. It's an all or nothing solution, so you either do it or you don't. Going halfway will get you back to square one in no time unless you do the alternative progressive method (Ferber).

For us, everything changes when she is sick. We have now regressed in the past few weeks because of that. I hope we can get back to the grove we had last month. :(

Good luck! HTH.

CityGirl

03-08-2007, 04:43 PM

Ade- We are at four months, and are having a very similar sleep pattern as you. We also use the Amby hammock right next to our bed. I just read the pertinent chapter in Weissbluth last night and it did make me feel better, but didn't offer much hope for STTN. He says that breastfed babies will wake up 2 times a night for food until 9 months and that you should feed them. I do this, and just jiggle the hammock to get Finn back to sleep at the other wake ups. So now I am just waiting for the daytime sleep to consolidate before doing any more work on sleep scheduling. I also found this blog by a very smart mom who talks about sleep regressions. It made me feel a LOT better about sleep and our family.

http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/sleep/index.html

MichelleRenee

03-08-2007, 04:59 PM

Ade, I'm glad you were able to utilize my chart. It seems to be working for us. I am really starting to see a pattern.

I can't answer your other questions. Tristan is also teething. Some nights he just cries and cries (a sad, in pain cry) until I give him some Tylenol and then he falls asleep. As for schedule disruptions... that is another one that I am also struggling with. Mike and I both work full time, and when we are home we are very busy. We have a lot of family nearby who we like to visit. While some people say that HIS sleeping schedule should come first and that we shuoldn't do anythign that disrupts it, I disagree. This will be his lifestyle throughout his childhood.... dinner a few nights a week at MIL's house, days spent out shopping or visitng with family. I am just doing my best to be sure that he still gets good naps and goes to bed at a reasonable hour.

Speaking of reasonable hours... Around 7:00 I gave Tristan some cereal and a bottle. By 7:30 he had put himself to sleep in his crib. It's my night with him tonight so I have my fingers crossed that he won't wake up to eat!

Wrighty26

03-08-2007, 06:10 PM

- What do you do when your schedule gets disrupted like when traveling or with evening plans. I'm trying to follow the schedule as much as possible during the day, but we went out to dinner last night and are going to a friend's house tonight. So, no way to do his evening routine and get him to bed before 8.

- What do you do when they are teething. DS is teething like crazy lately and I know it is hurting him. I'm trying to use Ambosol and give him a little bit of Tylenol when it gets really bad, but both are only temporary. I can't help but think that his latest bout of bad sleeping may be related to his teeth.

Question 1 - There are exceptions to every sleeping rule. Sometimes it's just not possible to adhere to the schedule and Weissbluth talks about this. There are a few strategies you can take to get your baby back on track. When he gets older, and he is on a schedule (at 4 months, that's doubtful!) and day sleep is interrupted the advice is to skip the nap and don't let the child sleep at an abnormal time. Instead move the bedtime up. If night sleep is interrupted, I believe the advice is to just get everything back on track the next day and if necessary put the child to bed early. Since he still little and adult sleep patterns haven't fully developed, I would just get him to sleep when he is showing sleepy cues. Do what you can to accomodate him. From my experience regular naps at his age were more important than what time my son went to bed!

Question 2 - Really, I have no advice on this one, but teething DID affect my son's sleep. One of the things I don't agree with in the book is that teething does not effect sleep. I read that and thought, "My ass is does!" He was STTN until the teething began -- which was around 6 months. Just last weekend, at 8 months he was STILL waking up 2-3 times a night (although, the teething coincided with developmental milestones too -- basically months 6-7 sucked for us when it came to sleep) and we had to let him CIO. Not something I wanted to do, but it seems to be working. We also just added 3 meals a day (along with lots of nursing) -- and it's really helped. Have you tried to increase the amount he nurses throughout the day? I know that Weissbluth says there isn't necessarily an association between food and sleep -- but I disagree!

With CIO, how do you know to distinguish between a hunger cry and just fussing?

I really couldn't make the distinction until recently. It's hard to explain, but it's a completely different cry. When he is hungry his cry is more rapid and frustrated sounding. When he is awake and wants to see he usually cries a little, then stops, then cries a little more, than stops, etc...

HTH -- I apologize for writing a book!

mkvh

03-08-2007, 07:48 PM

Ade--Wow...you have LOTS of questions! I do have to say that I have a few friends who coslept, and they it rough spots at about 4-5 months as well. At this point, baby is starting more adult-like sleep cycles with deep sleep and then partial arousals (which could account for the every-2-hour pattern you're seeing). If you're nursing him (or soothing him) back to sleep at each of these, he's not going to learn to self-soothe, which is a key skill for more consolidated sleep. CityGirl mentioned jiggling the hammock, which I think is a great plan.

Bouts of bad sleep--Like Wrighty said, teething can be a culprit. So can illness and developmental milestones. Unfortunately, it can take WEEKS to get back to "normal".

Disruptions to schedule--The impact really depends on your child. My DD is a VERRRRY easy kiddo, always has been. So she takes disruptions in stride. Bloomwood's DD, though, was difficult for a while, and she HAD to stick to the routine. You'll figure out how much a moved/skipped/in the stroller nap or a later bedtime impacts your child, and you'll act accordingly!

Bloomwood

03-08-2007, 10:56 PM

My ears must've been burning. :p

Ade - you've gotten some great advice and I doubt I have much to add. Months 4-5 were the worst for us (me) b/c DD learned to roll over and would wake up all.the.time. Does your husband/partner ever try to soothe DS back to sleep w/o the boob? I realize you said he gulps down milk when you go in there but really it is the act of nursing that is soothing to him. He isn't necessarily hungry every 1-2 hours throughout the night, but he may need help in going to back to sleep. Perhaps you can nurse for the first waking since that will be 4 hours since he ate and then have dad deal with the 2nd waking to soothe him in another way (and not bring him to bed)?

Is his sleeping in your room your long-term plan? If it isn't then maybe now is the time to move him to his own room. Maybe being in a quieter environment - or with controlled noise like a sound machine - will help him sleep. I imagine when you put him to bed at 8 you aren't also going to bed, so maybe hearing/feeling/smelling you after he's awakened and nursed is making it more difficult for him to go back to sleep since he isn't in bed with you?

As for the schedule disruption, we were super committed to the schedule for weeks, but early on, like day 10 of STing, I had a sitter cancel on me and had to take her to an event. She did great. got sleepy at the event and then crashed the minute we were home. But, I was so stubborn that I put an end to her falling asleep in the stroller, staying up late, etc. etc. I kind of wish I hadn't been as neurotic because now she will only sleep in her crib - that means I can't go on extended outings during the day because she just becomes a pill.

Speaking of sleep...

MichelleRenee

03-09-2007, 04:03 AM

We had a good night last night! I fed Tristan at 7:00 and by 7:30 he was fast asleep in his crib.

He fussed a couple times around 10:00 but didn't actually wake up.

He slept until 3:30 am! That is 7 hours! I was happy about that.

mkvh

03-09-2007, 05:26 AM

Yay Michelle!!! Go Tristan!

Franni

03-09-2007, 08:59 AM

Sad and desperate.

I had wanted to avoid CIO this time around. But it's looking like we are going to have to do it. I just want to know, is it too early to do CIO at 4 months? Syd has been having real issues staying asleep at night. 2 weeks ago, she slept for 8 hours one night and 5 hours at a time the nights after. Then the slide started. She goes to sleep fairly easily but she cannot seem to stay asleep. She wakes up every hour. I don't go to her when she just fusses, but I guess she has learned that only a full-on cry will get me in there. In exhaustion, I let her CIO on Tuesday. She fell asleep after 30 minutes. She was a little better on Wednesday, so she didn't end up needing to CIO.

Yesterday was HORRIBLE. I put her down at 7:00. She woke at 8, fell back to sleep at 8:05, woke again in 8:10, asleep in 2 minutes. This went on a few times till finally I decided to try a modified (gentler) CIO that someone on CC suggested. Basically instead of leaving her alone, I stayed in the room and try to verbally comfort her. I tried patting her also and laid down beside her. She cried even longer last night, probably not understanding why I didn't nurse her or pick her up. I felt so bad.

Wanted to add...that she naps well during the day. She has some off days but yesterday was a good nap day for her. She is not teething from what I can tell.

I did CIO with DD1 and would have to say that it worked really well for her. But I waited till she was at least 5 months old. I don't know if I could last with so little sleep for another month though.

Any suggestions out there....

IzzyJune2006

03-09-2007, 09:32 AM

Franni
I think the experts say it's ok to start at 4 months. My retrospective opinion based on DD is that the best time is when you see a change in her night time sleep behavior and patterns. For us it would have been at 4.5-5 months.

I don't think there is a science to it. My advice is to be reasonable (ie not give in at every whimper) but also trust your instinct. Sometimes they are just going through something (teething, sick, stomach ach, etc). I don't think it's necessarily bad to give them more TLC on those days. The tough thing is to recognize the difference between the normal days when they are just difficult about not wanting to sleep. For example, I've noticed with DD that she can be like that if she has to poop at night. When she's uncomfortable like that, i hold her and rock her until it passes.

When we started STing with CIO, our first objective was to get her to fall asleep on her own. If she woke up a few hours after that, we still tended to her. After a few weeks when she got used to falling asleep on her own after her night time routine, we worked on the other wakening times. I was more comfortable with a progressive approach. HTH.

Franni

03-09-2007, 09:36 AM

izzyjune thanks for the advice. I think I am going to proceed as planned with STing her. I really don't have a problem AT ALL with feeding her 2 even 3 during the night, but this waking up every 15 minutes to an hour is killing me.

rosa727

03-09-2007, 09:43 AM

Is it unusual for a baby to be a great sleeper at night but a terrible sleeper during the day? My DS has been STTN (11-12 hours) for 3 weeks now, but he HATES napping. I am following the "rules", but I am baffled. He fights sleep like crazy during the day and it makes him cranky by the end of the day. I try everything but he really resists. He usually works himself up because he does not want to nap. Then, he is so upset that he cannot fall asleep. I get him to nap with me a couple times per day, and he will sleep in the Baby Bjorn (but it is not quality sleep). It is hard to get him to nap in his crib. I have to make sure he is REALLY sleep (about 20 minutes of rocking) and then very carefully put him down. Then he often wakes up 30-40 minutes later. How can I use the fact that he is a great night sleeper to make him a better daytime sleeper? Any ideas?

He is only three months old but is very alert and engaged in everything around him. Could this be part of why he doesn't want to nap? Even when we were still in the hospital he had his eyes open for long stretches of time. The doctors were really surprised. So I guess that's just how he is.

Franni

03-09-2007, 09:46 AM

rosa just wanted to say that you and I have the opposite problem.

rosa727

03-09-2007, 09:48 AM

Franni: Isn't is weird how they can be so good at one "type" of sleep and terrible with another? Which is more typical? Does anyone know? Not that it matters, but I am just curious.

gmooter

03-09-2007, 10:12 AM

rosa, my DD was the exact same way! Poor daytime napping (30-45 minutes even though I followed the 2 hour rule), very alert from day 1, but always slept great at night.

My only advice is hang in there. Keep doing what you're doing. Grace finally started to nap better once she was crawling at 6.5 months. She's now 18 months and is a great sleeper and takes a good afternoon nap!

sake

03-09-2007, 01:35 PM

Not sure if this is the right thread, but...
We are going to start sleep training DS at night. Have already done it for naps and is working ok. DS was waking once at night, and is now back to 2 wake ups. I don't know how to get him back to sleep without feeding him. (He is exclusively formula fed). I spoke to his ped. about this yesterday, and she said that instead of just letting him CIO and stop feedings cold turkey, to gradually reduce the amount he's getting in a bottle each night. Usually he gets 6 oz, last night he got 5, tonight we'll do 4, etc.
Has anyone tried this? Is it effective?

ETA: He's 5 months old.

IzzyJune2006

03-09-2007, 01:50 PM

sake
I think it's worth trying the gradual decrease of formula. It didn't work for us. DD wakes up about every 4-6 hours. If I give her half the amount, she wakes up in half the time!

What seems to be working these past few days is that I have increased the variety and amount of her last meal of the day. We're not quite STTN yet, but I think we can make it soon. (fingers crossed!)

mobox

03-09-2007, 08:37 PM

Rosa - I truly believe that some babies just aren't good daytime sleepers. They don't need it. Does DS cry or get fussy/tired? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it so much. It's when they are visibly tired and cranky but won't sleep that you have to "try everything." I would make sure to check some things off my list such as: Darkened room (try dark curtains), perhaps white noise?

rosa727

03-10-2007, 05:22 AM

mobox: I agree that not all babies need the same amount of daytime sleep. As a baby I did well with about 2 hours of naps, so maybe he is like me. He does get cranky sometimes, so I can tell he needs to sleep. I do put a white noise CD on, but we do not have room darkening blinds, so I need to try that. I stupidly believed the theory that you should not get them so that the baby does not get confused between night and day. Well he doesn't want to sleep unless it's dark, so I guess we need them!

gmooter: Thanks! It's good to know I am not the only one whose baby hates naps. It sounds like my DS is a lot like your DD. Could I ask what ultimately worked to get your daughter to nap? I know you said you think the crawling helped, but did you darken the room? Use white noise? Just wondering if there are any tricks I am not trying.

Kopper

03-10-2007, 05:40 PM

rosa - I could have written your post except my DS is 11 months! :eek: I have been working on getting him to nap in his crib for the 1st nap but so far he only will stay asleep 20-30mins. If I hold him he will nap 1-2 hours. I know how frustrating it is because we have been dealing with this for so long. I have tried CIO when he wakes up early but it hasn't worked so far. It worked for nighttime but not daytime. He goes down really easy at night. Well except for tonight. :p He fought pretty hard to stay awake. No real advice here since I'm in the same boat but I can comiserate with you.

---
Is anyone scared about tomorrow night? Are you planning on waking your child up if they sleep late in the morning? DS's normal wake up time is around 6:30am. I'm wondering if I should wake him or let him sleep until 7:30am. If I do it kind of throws off his nap schedule and I have to wake him from his 2nd nap so he doesn't sleep too late and then not want to go to sleep at his normal time. That's what happened today. He was late on his 2nd nap and didn't want to go to bed. I am worred about it being too light out tomorrow. We don't have blackout shades. DH thinks we should get some for the summer. He goes to bed at 6:30pm and right now it is still somewhat light out. Tomorrow it will be really light out! :(

MichelleRenee

03-10-2007, 05:58 PM

Today went well, but I have a problem tonight. Tristan fell asleep around 6. Usually he naps from 6-7, then wakes up to eat and is in bed by 7:30-8:00. Well it is 9 and he has been asleep since 6. I think he might be out for the night. The problem.... he is still in a t-shirt and jeans! Is it OK to just leave him like that until he wakes up on his own? (That might not be for another 4-5 hours)

mkvh

03-10-2007, 07:36 PM

Kopper--Yesterday, I would have said nope, not worried at all! But we didnt' get to sleep till NINE tonight (don't ask), so yeah, I'm a little worried. But then again, our current 5:30am wakeup could stand to be a bit later ;) Fingers crossed it goes smoothly for all.

Michelle--There's been many a night C has slept in her clothes!

Bloomwood

03-10-2007, 10:10 PM

tomorrow - DD has been a crappy napper recently, so we are going to just skip her pm nap and put her to bed at 6 pm which will be 7 pm and then go with the flow. My fingers are crossed!

Kopper

03-11-2007, 06:53 AM

Well DH and were tired so we let him sleep until 7:30am (really 6:30am to him) I'm just going to adjust everything by 30 mins today and then 30 mins again tomorrow. Hopefully that will work. Hope everyone is adjusting well. It was so much easier last fall.

mobox

03-11-2007, 09:19 PM

Ds has been STTN (11-12 hours) for two weeks but last night he woke up three times around 3am and on the third one, we gave him a bottle and he went down to sleep. He's 13 weeks. What do you guys think? Growth spurt?

Kopper

03-12-2007, 06:45 AM

mobox - Could be. My DS didn't sleep 11-12 hours until 10 months so I'm no help.

--
DS ended up sleeping in until 7am this morning. He then nursed and cuddled until almost 8am. This time change has really thrown his schedule. I'm wondering since it is now light out longer and darker until later in the morning if we should just move his schedule back 30-60 mins to compensate. He is not acting ready for his 9am nap right now so I'm going to wait until 9:15-9:30ish and see how he does. I can't really blame him since he didn't want to get up and be active until around 8am and he is normally playing or eating breakfast by 7am.

mkvh

03-12-2007, 07:46 AM

Oh, yeah, mobox. Right on time for the 3 month spurt!!

Kopper--Sounds like a plan for today. If you want to get back on schedule, you could wake him up at the "usual" time tomorrow. Though I know how nice it is to snuggle in bed later than usual!! I would enjoy it, too!

Knock on wood, the time change doesn't seem to be a problem. We were up at 6:30 per normal today. Let's hope bedtime goes well tonight!

rosa727

03-12-2007, 08:53 AM

The time change didn't really mess us up. We put Grady down slightly later last night, and it was a bit tough to get him to sleep. But then he STTN and didn't wake up until 7:30 this morning (an hour after he usually does). I guess he still thought it was 6:30. But anyway, it was no big deal. I think by tonight he should be adjusted.

Rancid13

03-12-2007, 09:47 PM

Ugh, the time change messed us up. :mad: Remind me why we still need to have daylight savings!? Last night DS would NOT hear of going to bed at 7:30pm even after our usual nighttime routine. He screamed and screamed. Luckily DH had just gotten home from work so I jetted outta home to go run some solo errands, so he got to rock the little one to sleep. I guess he finally fell asleep at 8:30 (which would have been the normal time for his bedtime had we not had the time change). Tonight he was in bed with no problems at 8:20pm. I'm going to try to keep making his bedtime earlier by at least 10-15 min each night till we're back to the regular 7-7:30pm bedtime. We also need to invest in some room-darkening shades in anticipation of summer when it will be light out till well after 8pm...

Kopper

03-13-2007, 06:09 AM

Rancid - We are getting shades this weekend if not sooner.

DS went down ontime last night. He actually went a little early b/c he was so tired. He only had a 45min afternoon nap instead of the 1.5 hour one he normally takes. He was up around 4:30am but not crying. I don't know if he went back to sleep but I went in at 6:45 and nursed him. He fell back asleep until 7:45 when I woke him up. So we are off again today. I'm thinking about seeing if we can skip or take a really short morning nap to get us back on track. Ughh.... I hate the time change!

Bloomwood

03-13-2007, 07:48 AM

kopper - skipping the afternoon nap helped us. Good luck.

kemorr

03-13-2007, 08:08 AM

Rosa - I wanted to tell you that my DD (4.5 mo) is the same. She sleeps 10-12 hours at night and takes 3 x 45 min naps during the day. They are 45 mins on the nose. Occasionally I can get her to go back to sleep for another 15 minutes but rarely. I've just come to accept that this is who she is and that daytime sleep is always going to be short and sweet. I have just stopped rocking her for naps in the last 2 weeks and luckily is it usually reasonably easy to get her to sleep but nothing I do makes her sleep longer. I just think some babies are poor daytime sleepers!

Rancid13

03-13-2007, 11:32 AM

Rancid - We are getting shades this weekend if not sooner.

I haven't begun to look into them yet-who sells them/where can I find them? Luckily his room is dark enough with our current vertical blinds at 8-8:30pm (his current bedtime until I slowly but surely get him back to the regular 7-7:30 time) for him to fall asleep...but definitely not dark enough for naps.

Wrighty26

03-13-2007, 11:45 AM

I haven't begun to look into them yet-who sells them/where can I find them? Luckily his room is dark enough with our current vertical blinds at 8-8:30pm (his current bedtime until I slowly but surely get him back to the regular 7-7:30 time) for him to fall asleep...but definitely not dark enough for naps.

I got mine at walmart for like $4. Instead of hanging it - I just taped it to the window (behind the blinds). I'm sure it looks pretty ghetto from the outside, but my DS's room is in the back of the house, so I don't really care :) Before I bought the blinds I had a huge towel hanging over his window. I like seeing the actual window now instead!

rosa727

03-13-2007, 03:55 PM

kemorr: Yeah, my DS is definitely falls into the category of "poor daytime sleeper" too! Luckily, it is getting easier to get him to fall asleep, but he only stays asleep from 30-90 minutes. The 90 is only occasionally and only if he is napping with me. I hope we can get to the point where I can just put him down in the crib to fall asleep. I think we are getting there, as he fusses a lot less now.

mkvh

03-14-2007, 07:08 AM

UGH, UGH, UGH! It took us an hour and a half to fall asleep last night. Although I cannot attribute specifically to DST, as DD now is pulling up and sitting herself up in her crib. These developmental milestones are a bear!

lilo

03-18-2007, 11:47 AM

HELP!! I need some advice/help on getting DS to take naps. DS is 4 months old was getting into a pretty good nap routine but has recently started fighting his naps until the point that he is utterly exhausted and wailing. For instance, today he woke up at 7:30am. I tried putting him down for his first nap at around 8:45am and he just cried and cried. Since I'm going back to work soon, I'm weaning him off from nursing to sleep. However, since he didn't go down at 8:45am, I got him back up, we played a little and then I tried again at 10:30am. This time I gave him a bottle (it was time anyway) and he was getting drowsy and falling asleep but as soon as his head hit the crib, he was wide awake and crying again. Ugh. So I got him up again and then by noon he was so overtired that he was hysterical and I finally had to nurse him to sleep. He's been alseep for about 2 hours now, which is good but I don't know what to do.

He's been in a pretty fussy mood for the last few days so now I'm trying to figure out if he's maybe sick (no temperature but I'm worried about him getting another ear infection) or teething. He sticks his hand in his mouth a lot these days, even after he's just had a bottle. He drools a lot too but he's done that for a while. I'm just wondering if there's something else going on that he's not taking good naps anymore. I just don't know.

What else can I do to get him to take better naps that doesn't include nursing him to sleep? He'll be in daycare soon and I've been trying to wean him but it's been very hard. He doesn't like to be rocked to sleep and when I put him in his crib awake, he just cries and cries and cries.

TIA for any advice/support/help!

sake

03-18-2007, 04:25 PM

Lilo,
Are you willing to try CIO for naps? My doc gave me the go ahead for naps at 4 months, and it seems to have helped.

Wrighty26

03-18-2007, 04:40 PM

lilo - I did a modified CIO approach at 4 months because it was a bear to get my DS down for naps. That was THE most frustrating time for me. I was WAH at the time and I NEEDED him to take those naps! Instead of just letting him cry for an hour, I let him cry 10 minutes, then checken him, then let him cry 15 minutes, etc - the most it got to was like 20 minutes the first time, then rapidly decreased from there on out. It took a good 3 days, and a lot of consistency but it worked and he now has no problem going down for naps. Actually -- he still wants to be nursed when I put him down - and I probably play into that by letting him (he'll go to sleep if I don't - but he will cry and honestly I enjoy that time together b/c it's only on the weekends now), but will go to sleep no problem when someone else does. HTH!

lilo

03-19-2007, 04:52 AM

Thanks sake and wright. I have been letting him CIO a little for naps but after 10 minutes, I usually give up. :cool: I will have to try the modified CIO and see if that helps.

Wrighty: I never thought of still being able to nurse DS to sleep on the weekends on when he is home with me (DS will be in daycare only part-time). I thought it would actually make things worse for the daycare providers or anyone else if I continued to nurse DS to sleep when I'm with him. So, your DS goes down for naps when your DH or anyone puts him to bed? And you nurse him to sleep on the weekends and it doesn't mess anyting up during the week?

rosa727

03-19-2007, 07:47 AM

Well I finally figured out part of the reason DS was struggling with naps so much! He is definitely teething! He is drooling, has a low-grade fever (doctor checked him out and it is not due to anything else), some diarrhea, and wants to bite everything HARD. I can't feel it yet, but I know it is coming. Any suggestions on sleep while teething? He has been acting hungrier too, which I heard can also be due to teething (eating is soothing). He was STTN about 7PM-7AM but has been waking at about 4AM the past few nights and really wanting to eat. So I obviously feed him. Does it usually go back to "normal" after the tooth pops through? I hope so!

MSH

03-19-2007, 07:59 AM

Kopper

03-19-2007, 11:00 AM

So ever since the time change we have had massive nap problems. I don't know if it is because of the change or not but DS has been really hard to get down for a nap. He has been outright refusing morning naps on some days. I forget what Weisbluth says when they start to go to one nap. DS will be 1 in 2 weeks. It takes me 30-40 mins to get him down if he will go down for his morning nap. The afternoon one is not much better. We did end up getting blackout shades and that has helped for bedtime but naptime it doesn't seem to make a difference. (We bought the shades for $40 - 20% off coupon at BB&B btw). So is it just a coinsidence that his naps are terrible after the time change? Our nighttime sleep is the same and bedtime is the same. He is actually sleeping 15-30mins later in the morning though but going down at the same time. Maybe it is time for one nap?

Wrighty26

03-19-2007, 11:44 AM

Wrighty: I never thought of still being able to nurse DS to sleep on the weekends on when he is home with me (DS will be in daycare only part-time). I thought it would actually make things worse for the daycare providers or anyone else if I continued to nurse DS to sleep when I'm with him. So, your DS goes down for naps when your DH or anyone puts him to bed? And you nurse him to sleep on the weekends and it doesn't mess anyting up during the week?

Yep. He's a really easy going little guy though - and when I put him down in the crib after nursing him he is still awake and he puts himself to sleep. I think his ability to self-soothe is what has allowed me to do this.

Well I finally figured out part of the reason DS was struggling with naps so much! He is definitely teething! He is drooling, has a low-grade fever (doctor checked him out and it is not due to anything else), some diarrhea, and wants to bite everything HARD. I can't feel it yet, but I know it is coming. Any suggestions on sleep while teething? He has been acting hungrier too, which I heard can also be due to teething (eating is soothing). He was STTN about 7PM-7AM but has been waking at about 4AM the past few nights and really wanting to eat. So I obviously feed him. Does it usually go back to "normal" after the tooth pops through? I hope so!

It's hard for me to say yes because it didn't happen on its own -- but we are back to a normal 7-7 schedule. We did have to let him CIO at 7 months (his first tooth popped in at 6 months, and the 2nd tooth popped in at 7 months) because he got used to the night wakings/feedings. I think he's gearing up for some more teeth because he's been a drooling machine lately -- I'm not looking forward to the night wakings. I know it's inevitable.

Bloomwood

03-19-2007, 12:45 PM

kopper - DD is 10 mos. and was fighting both naps. She'd play in her crib for up to an hour before going to sleep. I was wasting so much of my day waiting for her to sleep. I ended up going to one nap last week. She has done really well. I also put her in her crib for 1/2 hour in the morning and afternoon to play quietly and "recharge". She is still going to bed and waking up at the same time.

karlatta

03-20-2007, 06:21 PM

Stopping by to ask a quick question.

My DS is 10 months old and sleeps all the time. Can someone tell me what Weissbluth says should be the nap schedule for a 10 month old, and if his amount of sleep seems reasonable? I'm a little worried, because he still seems to be doing the whole "only able to be awake for two hours at a time" thing that younger babies do. Right now this is his approximate schedule.

*Up at 7 to take DD to school, eats and goes on a walk
*Back in bed between 8 and 8:30, Sleeps until 10:30 or so
*Up for a couple of hours, eats again, we play, etc.
*Starts begging for a nap (rubs his eyes, covers his face with his hands) around 1:30. Sleeps for about an hour until I have to pick his sister up from school.
*Starts doing the nap signs again around 4:00. I put him down and he sleeps for about another hour.
*Goes to bed at 7:30 with no fighting.

I know that the biggest part of the problem is DD's school schedule - on weekends when we don't have to take DD to school (and so DS doesn't get woken up from naps and stuff), DS is actually able to be awake for longer periods of time.

Any suggestions for things I can do to improve his schedule? I've tried putting him to bed earlier, but he always seems to want to be asleep past 7:00 - even more so now with the time change.

mobox

03-21-2007, 06:57 AM

Speaking of the "two hour rule" when does that typically stop? I've lent my HSHHC to a friend and can't look it up. DS is not yet 4 months old and I know he is kept up for longer than 2 hour stretches at DC.

IzzyJune2006

03-21-2007, 08:25 AM

karlatta
DD is not quite 10 months and her schedule is almost identical to your DS. I think it's fairly normal if I remember the book. I've been thinking that somewhere between 9 and 12 months we'll move to 2 naps per day. Sometimes she only gets 2, but most days it's 3.
I'm not worried at all. I think the chart says something like ~14 hours/day at that age.

Suggested length of sleep by age kidshealth (http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/general/sleep/sleep.html)
Suggested length of sleep by age slumbersounds (http://www.slumbersounds.com/baby-sleep-patterns-info.htm)

mkvh

03-21-2007, 06:05 PM

karlatta--I just was reading HSHHC last night. Usually b/t 8-10m the 3rd nap disappears, but sounds like it's working for him! I say roll with it.

mobox--most babies will start to consolidate naps in the 4-6m range. They'll then have longer periods of wakefulness in between.

We still are in sleep hell. Pulling up is MUCH more fun... It takes us an hour to get her down at night and at least a half hour for a nap. And she was up twice during the night last night (DD started STTN at 5 weeks). I pored over HSHHC, and there's NOTHING glaring (other than CIO) that we can do. ARGH!!! I hope this phase ends soon. Oh--and I'm not opposed to CIO (I sorta did it tonight), but it doesn't work as she just works herself all up.

karlatta

03-21-2007, 06:08 PM

Thanks, IzzyJune2006 and mkvh. All my real-life friends keep looking at me like I'm crazy when I mention that DS takes 3 naps still, so it's nice to hear from you guys.

DS had a little mishap this morning and ended up getting stitches in his hand, so he's been pretty much out for the count today. He's been asleep 20 of the last 24 hours today. :eek:

MichelleRenee

03-23-2007, 06:22 AM

Tristan has been doing great. In spite of teething and some congestion he has been going down easily for naps and sleeping great at night. (we got a 10 hour stretch last night!)

We usually turn on his mobile or his Ocean Wonders Aquarium when we out him to bed. He loves both of them and will just lay there and smile until he falls asleep.

So should we be doing something to phase out the mobile/aquarium? Or is it OK to use them if theyhelp him fall asleep so easily? (our sitter uses a box fan as white noise simply because she has 2 other kids in the house who might wake him up)

maybebaby

03-23-2007, 11:27 AM

Is there anything I can do about sleep and teething? It's clear to me she's waking up in discomfort and really wants to sleeps...yelling with eyes closed. I give tylenol and cuddle her, but any other suggestions?

Ade

03-23-2007, 03:43 PM

Since I posted last I got the book and am now doing a modified verison. The every 2 hour rule didn't work so well for us. DS was tough to get to sleep and would only sleep 20-45 minutes. We instead just watch tired cues which may come after 2 hours, 3 or sometimes even 4. I've found that it's easier to get him to go to sleep and he sleeps longer if we do it this way rather than using 2 hours max as a mandate.

We do a bedtime routine every night (bath with camomile and lavender, massage with chamomile, lavender and vanilla creme, white noise machine on to heartbeat sound, lay down together, nurse and rock if necessary). DS usually falls asleep within 15 minutes of us laying down together.

We are not doing CIO. I tried it twice when he just wouldn't go to sleep, but felt awful the entire time and then felt even worse after he fell asleep and was gasping in his sleep from crying so hard.

We decided to ditch the baby hammock and crib altogether and even got him out of our bed. I was finding that I would get him asleep and then go to transfer him and he would wake up. Or, in our bed, he was so close to me that my every movement woke him up. There is a Queen sized bed in his room that we use for guests. I put bed rails on the side and lay him in the middle and am using that as his bed. This way, I can lay down next to him until he falls asleep and then just creep away when he does. And when he wakes to eat during the night, I can easy go to him, leave him in bed, feed him and then leave when he's back to sleep. So far, this is working well. He's sleeping for longer stretches because it is darker and quiter in the nursery than our room, he doesn't need to be moved and he's not right up against us so he's not getting woken up by our movements. And, I'm sleeping better, even though I have to go up and down 2 flights of stairs each time, because he's not waking as often now, allowing me to get longer stretches of sleep.

Hopefully, this continues to work!

Bloomwood

03-23-2007, 03:47 PM

Ade - GREAT news!!!

Hula1974

03-23-2007, 04:26 PM

I may get attacked for asking this....but here goes.
How do you know if a night waking is because baby is hungry? We've been giving DS a bottle when he wakes up. But he's sleeping from about 7-5, getting the bottle and going right back to sleep until about 7. Then he isn't really hungry for his 7am bottle (we usually feed every 3 hours when he's awake). So it got me thinking, I wonder if I can just get him back to sleep if he can hold off until 7am for eating.
Tried it last night by just giving him the paci when he woke up but not picking him up out of the crib. Had to do it a few times but we made it through til 6:30am.
Am I a bad mom?

Bloomwood

03-23-2007, 04:39 PM

No, of course you aren't a bad mom!! I don't know what is true and what is urban myth but I've heard that 5 am is a natural waking for babies because they are transitioning to a deeper sleep, they need to be trained to sleep through it. I've also heard that because of that deeper sleep, from 5-6 is imperative for cognitive growth. So...doing what you can do to get him to sleep that time period will be helpful for him. Per my urban myth.

I can tell you that at our 6 mo WBV the ped told us to cut out that last feeding. We did and it was no big deal. She picked it up in just a couple of nights. FWIW, she's on formula. I know that Weissbluth says BF'd babies may need to go to 9 mos before they don't need that last feeding.

shortcake

03-24-2007, 09:13 AM

The 5am wakeup is a bear. DS is 10 months old and we struggle with this all the time.

Last night he woke at 11:30, though, and needed help to get back to sleep. This is unusual for him these days, and I think he is teething. After letting him cry for 1/2 hour with no sign of settling, I went in and gave him tylenol, and then held him for a moment before putting him down. I was VERY proud for not feeding him, since when I go in he always wants that! Anyway he was really mad when I left but fell asleep after about 20 minutes, so that wasn't too bad. He slept till 6, too, which is great.

rosa727

03-24-2007, 09:52 AM

I'm dealing with the 5 AM waking too. He was STTN from 7-6:30, but lately he is waking up around 5 and seems VERY hungry. I always feed him and then he sleeps until about 7:30. Not sure why it changed though?

mobox

03-25-2007, 09:34 AM

HULA-Please don't think you are a bad mom, not at all!!! How will you know if they need that feeding? Well, we basically experimented to see if DS would be soothed back to sleep with a paci and a little gentle rubbing of the tummy and it worked. That was 4 weeks ago and he's now STTN from 7p-7a (approx of course).

Hula1974

03-25-2007, 12:31 PM

So great to hear! We've gone 3 nights now of giving a paci instead of a feeding and we can almost hit the 12 hour mark. We have had to give the paci about 3-4 times a night though. Hopefully he'll get better without needing it.

kate's mom

03-25-2007, 05:00 PM

Hula Glad to hear that the paci trick is working. That is what we also did with my DD. I am also glad to hear that I am not the only one playing the paci game. I can't remember when they can start finding the paci on their own. Hope your luck continues!

hub1176

03-25-2007, 06:08 PM

I'm having a difficult time getting DD down for the night. With my oldest she was STTN at 8 weeks. We didn't have to do anything, and at 21 months she sleeps from about 7:30p -7:30a. DD#2 is such a different story. We coslept for the first 6 months, and transistioned to her crib in February. She was getting too big for the cosleeper. Now we have the hardest time getting her to go to bed at night and STTN. I tried putting her up at 7:30 and she screamed for a 1/2 hour. I was never a fan a CIO as I think it uisually works babies up more than anything - but I don't know what else to do. She's fed (both b/f and formula) she's changed, I've rocked and swayed and shushed. I finally put her down at 8:30 and she cried for about 5 minutes then fell asleep. I'm exhausted, since I'm up all night with her, then up all day with DD #1. We tried having DH get up with her and give her a bottle, but it's the same thing. She'll fall asleep during the feeding, and the second she's placed in the crib she's wide awake and crying.
I've been slowly weaning from B/F'ing because I'm too tired - and I had wanted to do it the whole first year. Any suggestions? Anyone else have this problem?