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View Full Version : Vatican May Declare John Paul II a Martyr


lawyerlee
07-01-2005, 02:29 PM
Anyone have thoughts on this? Keeing in mind, of course, that none of us would want to insult another's intentionally religious beliefs. :)


Vatican May Declare John Paul II a Martyr (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/john_paul_sainthood&printer=1;_ylt=AgeVgC8ByNk2RWcR1PPcKXRbbBAF;_ylu=X 3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-)

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 41 minutes ago

Vatican officials no longer are dismissing outright the notion that Pope John Paul II could be declared a martyr, a step that could remove the need for a confirmed miracle to beatify the late pontiff and make it easier for him to become a saint.

Cardinal Jose Saraiva Martins, prefect of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, said Friday it was up to groups of theological experts to decide if the May 13, 1981, attempt on John Paul's life — as well as his long, public suffering before he died — warranted a declaration of martyrdom.

"In a technical, theological, juridical and canonical sense, the martyr gives his life for the faith," Saraiva Martins said in response to questions at a news conference, according to the Apcom news agency.

"We have to verify the motive for the attempt on the life of (Karol) Woytyla. And this will be the work of theologians."

Ever since Pope Benedict XVI announced May 13 that he was putting John Paul on the fast track to be beatified, questions have swirled about whether he could be declared a martyr. Doing so would remove the need for the Vatican to confirm that a miracle attributed to his intercession had occurred after his April 2 death — a necessary step for beatification.

The Vatican would still need to confirm that a miracle occurred after his beatification for John Paul to be declared a saint.

Church officials had initially rejected outright any suggestion that the 1981 assassination attempt could be the basis for a martyrdom declaration since John Paul lived for almost another 24 years.

They also noted that other candidates for beatification and sainthood had also suffered ordinary illnesses at the end of their lives but were not declared martyrs.

John Paul suffered from Parkinson's disease for many years. According to his death certificate, he died of blood poisoning and the collapse of his blood vessels after suffering from organ failure brought on by a urinary tract infection.

However, Cardinal Camillo Ruini appeared to have been setting the stage for a possible martyrdom declaration Tuesday when he formally opened the beatification cause for John Paul.

During his remarks at the end of the service, Ruini said there was a "decisive" link between John Paul and Jesus Christ based on blood.

"John Paul truly spilled his blood in St. Peter's Square on May 13, 1981, and then again, not just his blood but he offered his life during the long years of his illness," Ruini said.

"In the end, his suffering and his death, his silent blessing from his window at the end of Easter Mass, were for all of humanity an extraordinary and efficient testimony of Jesus Christ killed and resurrected, of the Christian significance of suffering, death and the force of salvation.

"The days of his funeral became for Rome and the world days of extraordinary unity, reconciliation and opening of the soul to God," Ruini said.

John Paul beatified and canonized hundreds of martyrs during his 26-year papacy. In fact, of the 1,338 people he beatified, 1,032 were martyrs. Of the 482 people he elevated to sainthood, 480 were martyrs.

One of the people he canonized was Maximilian Kolbe, a Polish priest who traded his life for that of a married man at Auschwitz in 1941. He was beatified under normal procedures in 1971. John Paul canonized him in 1982, announcing that he would be venerated as a martyr.

At the time some theologians questioned the move, since Kolbe didn't strictly die for the church. Experts have raised similar questions concerning the case of John Paul, since some say the 1981 assassination attempt was provoked by John Paul's support of the Solidarity labor movement battling the communist government in his native Poland. That would make the motive of the gunman political, rather than religious.

lawyerlee
07-01-2005, 02:31 PM
As for my opinion, I'm having a hard time understanding how this can be considered when it doesn't seem that his life or circumstances fit the characteristics for martyrdom. It wouldn't seem prudent to, for lack of a better phrase, "bend the rules" for someone who did many wonderful things just because you liked him a whole lot. It dosen't make sense to me. :confused: If you go changing the rules for something like this under these circumstances, doesn't that sort of cheapen it?

Elizabeth
07-01-2005, 03:34 PM
I liked Pope John Paul, but martyrdom? I think that's ridiculous. Isn't making him a saint enough? I know he was popular, but come on people! Martyrs are people that are murdered for their faith - not people that die in their 80s from old age.

citylove
07-01-2005, 04:24 PM
:confused:

God Bless the guy and all, but I was having a hard time swallowing even sainthood - now martyrdom? Tons of people suffered and died for their faith and "earned" the title martyr. Pope JPII - holy, saintly, whatever, but not a martyr IMO.

lawyerlee
07-01-2005, 05:45 PM
One of the people he canonized was Maximilian Kolbe, a Polish priest who traded his life for that of a married man at Auschwitz in 1941. He was beatified under normal procedures in 1971. John Paul canonized him in 1982, announcing that he would be venerated as a martyr.


ITA with you guys. To me, this kind of person truly is a martyr and to try to elevate a failed assassination to this kind of status is extremely disrespectful and cheapens the honor that status has been for all who have been given it.

gayle
07-02-2005, 09:56 AM
"God Bless the guy and all, but I was having a hard time swallowing even sainthood - now martyrdom? Tons of people suffered and died for their faith and "earned" the title martyr. Pope JPII - holy, saintly, whatever, but not a martyr IMO."

I agree, but I also think John Paul II was so adored by so many Catholics, that many of them would like to see this happen. And they might be comfortable fudging the rules to make it so. This will be interesting to follow.

oceaneast
07-10-2005, 09:53 PM
martyr? I think no. Good man - I suppose that depends on what side of John Paul II you choose to view. Regardless I had to go look up the definitions of martyr because I thought there might be more than one. I was right there are many: 1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle

He may qualify under the second definition but not the first. I do see that he made great sacrifices in his life. My fear is that it cheapens the word that most would define as someone who has died for their principals. My personal faith says that the Catholic church shouldn't cheapen its judgements based upon popular opinion, we may have many great religious leaders in the future who deserve these claims without dispute.

BTB
07-13-2005, 01:11 AM
none of us would want to insult another's intentionally religious beliefs.

Hmmm... a Freudian slip? ;)

I don't agree with 'fast-tracking' anybody to sainthood. These kinds of calls went up after Mother Teresa died, too, and who could have anything against her? But I like the patient route. The Church has been around 2,000 years, and doing things a certain way a lot of that time. The rules shouldn't bend now to suit a 21st century need for instant gratification.

chefker
07-13-2005, 07:15 AM
I just don't see it. As much as I respected JPII, when I think of the word 'martyr', I think of Joan of Arc, for example--who literally DIED for her faith, burned alive.

I always thought a martyr (the dictionary definition) was someone who died as a result of were defending their (unpopular) faith or beliefs. :confused:

PG-rated
07-15-2005, 11:56 AM
I'm Catholic, and this doesn't make any sense to me, either. FWIW, this is why it used to take so long to canonize someone (before JPII changed the rules) - the church wanted to have time to get some perspective on the person's life as a whole, and specifically avoid "popularity contests" like this.
Another take on the martyr angle - if they're doing it just so that JPII doesn't have to have miracles attributed to him, doesn't that imply that he's sort of a "second-class saint"? It's like saying that he's not capable of performing miracles like everyone else, but hey, we love him anyway.

chrisinluv
07-15-2005, 10:53 PM
Unbelievable. The man had a long, productive, fulfilling life, and he lived in the freaking VATICAN, with people to wait on him hand and foot. He suffered about as much as Paris Hilton (excepting, of course having been shot- that sucked).

The Church is probably just trying to do something to commemorate a good Pope, since we've had so few of them. And now we're back to having someone who is going to drag us back into the dark ages, the Church is going to lose any popularity that it had been retaining, and it's their own fault. Canonizing PJP2 isn't going to help, word to ya motha.