? about family vacations

[kiki61872]

Hi,

We are trying to plan a vacation that include DD - looking sometime in the spring when she will be about 9-10mos.

At first we were thinking Bahamas - but a friend of mine said that she thought babies couldnt travel out of the US due to not having enough shots? Does that sound right to anyone?

DH and i went to Aruba and there were tons of families - with small children too.

Here is another ? -- when travelling with an infant you have the option of not getting a seat on the plane.
what do you do at your destination? if you will be in a car - wouldnt you need the carseat????

[Mrs. M.]

I have never heard about babies not travelling outside the US due to not having enough shots. Babies have even been born and grown up in other countries :D I know that several babies from CC have been out of the country, including my DD. You will need a baby passport though.

If you are unsure about a destination, find out more about local medical conditions at the state department's website:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/ and
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1765.html

You can gate-check or even check-in the car seat. You can also get a rental car with a car seat.

Here is the travel master thread for you:

http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=6674

[jennylou]

As we have been researching vacation ideas for a big family trip within the next year, we came across a fine print in a cruise pamphlet that said babies had to be at least four months of age to travel.

I don't know if there are restrictions for other places, but did want to throw out that travel restriction for babies.

[tinkerbelljenny]

Our son never had his own seat on the plane before the age of two so we never brought the carseat. We would always rent one when we got to our destination or borrowed one from a friend or relative. We also live close to Canada so we go there often and we got him a passport early on.
That is really interesting about the cruise age limit. I had no idea.

[Pink_Converse]

If the baby does not get a seat do you just hold it? Is that safe? Just curious. DH and I were wondering this the other day.

[Mrs. M.]

That age limit must be for that particular cruise line. I know that some airlines will let babies as young as 8 days travel.

When you do not have a seat for your child, you must hold him on your lap. Some airlines in Europe will give you an infant (kangaroo) belt that loops into your seatbelt and an infant lifevest, but I have never received this equipment on a US-based airline.

To address the question of how safe it is to just hold a child on a plane:

The average takeoff speed (meaning how fast it goes while still on the ground) for a large passenger aircraft is 160 to 180 mph. It's humanly impossible to hold on to anything when braking from such a speed.

[nancy drew]

If the baby does not get a seat do you just hold it? Is that safe? Just curious. DH and I were wondering this the other day.
no, it isnt safe. your baby can be launched from your arms and fly across the plane. and if you have him or her belted in on your lap so they dont go flying, the weight + the force of your body slamming them into the seat in front of you would basically be something like getting smashed by 2000 pounds. i know im messing up the exact details of that, and im hoping lisa (littlelamb) will come along and clear it up because i have to explain to my mil why we need 4 plane tickets if we are going to visit her, but basically it isnt safe. im pretty sure the only reason they let people have their baby ride in their lap on planes is because the airline people know that if they didnt allow it, people wouldnt fly as much. no passengers = no $$$.

[carolc]

Well...safe is relative. It isn't particularly safe at all to even get into a car, but we all do it every day.

We have flown multiple times without a seat for DD. She is about to be two, so we won't be doing it anymore, but I am comforrtable with the small amount of risk.

Many, many people fly with "lap infants." I don't know what the statistics are on injuries, but I have never heard of any incidents personally.

We could never have afforded to fly to see my daughter's dying grandfather multiple times if we had had to pay for her seat every time.

[Mrs. M.]

and if you have him or her belted in on your lap so they dont go flying, the weight + the force of your body slamming them into the seat in front of you would basically be something like getting smashed by 2000 pounds.

Not really. You are supposed to hold the child with one hand and brace your head on the other arm against the seat in front of you. If both of you are buckled in tightly, using the additional infant belt, your child will not be squashed. I'll take the infant belt over just holding the baby anytime. (And I am trained in this stuff, with refresher courses every year.)

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/BracePositions/position9.jpg

Brace positions explained here:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0155_att.htm

Of course, the very best would always be to buy a seat and bring a car seat that's approved for use on aircraft.

[Mrs. M.]

nancy drew, I think I know now what you tried to say. Could it be that you mean the adult and the child using the same belt? That is indeed highly dangerous, just like you said. When I mentioned the infant being buckled in, I meant the use of an additional infant belt.

[njnewyearsbride]

Not really. You are supposed to hold the child with one hand and brace your head on the other arm against the seat in front of you. If both of you are buckled in tightly, using the additional infant belt, your child will not be squashed. I'll take the infant belt over just holding the baby anytime. (And I am trained in this stuff, with refresher courses every year.)



where does one get this infant belt??

[SiValleySteph]

I agree with carolc. Safe is relative. We choose to fly with DS as a lap child. He is 14mo and has been on about 6 round trips.

We have taken his carseat (Primmo Viaggio when a baby, Roundabout now) and stroller (Peg Perego Pliko) on every trip. We gate check the stroller and check the carseat at the front (in a carseat bag), generally. It really hasn't been much of a hassle.

Oh and DS went out of the country at 3-1/2 months old to China with no issues. The only difficulty was that we had to get his birth certificate before we could get his passport and that didn't come until he was 2 months old, so we had to do a rush on his passport and visa.

Have fun on your vacation! We just got back from Hawaii and had a very nice time with our toddler.

[BTB]

If the baby does not get a seat do you just hold it? Is that safe? Just curious. DH and I were wondering this the other day.

It is totally not safe if the plane crashes. (I don't mean that as "duh" as it sounds.) Nor is it safe if the plane meets significant turbulence.

However, it is a completely different animal than just holding baby in a car, as planes are statistically the MUCH safer means of transportation.

[alisong]

However, it is a completely different animal than just holding baby in a car, as planes are statistically the MUCH safer means of transportation.Not according to Freakanomics - they state that the per hour hazard is actually about the same for plane and car travel (overall, not broken down by age of passenger or by restraint used).

[Mrs. M.]

where does one get this infant belt??

From your friendly flight attendant, if your airline has them. Not all airlines do, I have no idea why.

[nancy drew]

lisa was kind enough to find her post on wc where she explained this to me when i was asking about it:

The short explanation from Corb on why having your child on
your lap strapped in with the seatbelt is dangerous and that now in
turbulance or an impact, said child has now become your airbag and can
be crushed to death depending on the force. i'll explain...

some info i just got from a conversation with DH:

most airplane crashes are survivable. and 75% of them happen during
take-off and landing. (which is why those toddler harnnesses, slings,
bjorns etc are not allowed to be used during takeoff and landing.)
most fatalities happen in the fire resulting from the crash (if there
is a fire). by not having your child properly restrained in a infant
seat or car seat, you are taking away their chance to survive the
impact of the crash because by being in your lap, they have now become
your own personal airbag if they are strapped to you. if they are not
strapped to you and you're just holding them, they will basically
become human torpedos. most crashes are anywhere between 10G and 26G.
(G being G Force.) 1G=the individual's weight. So, say you're involved
in an impact that's 20G and mom weighs 100 lbs, multiply by 20Gs, that
turns into 2000lbs crushing your lap child. if your child is not
strapped to you and you're just holding them and they weigh say, 20
lbs in a 20G impact, that becomes you trying to hold onto 400lbs in
the impact which would be virtually impossible to hold onto and
becomes 400 lbs of flying child through the cabin and crashing into
the bulkhead.

Turbulance is typically 1.5-2G. if your able to hold your 20 lbs
toddler down (which is now 40 lbs with 2Gs of force,), if mom is 140
lbs and pitches foward from the turbulance, that could be 280lbs
crushing the child.

~~~~~~~~~
here's another tidbit:
~~~~~~
but just becuase the FAA approves lap children under 2, doesn't mean
it is safe. on the contrary, according to my DH who has a masters
degree in aeronautical safety and accident investigation, the main
reason why lap children are allowed is that if it were not, the
mortality rate on the ROAD would rise significantly because more
people would choose to drive if a seat for a child under 2 was
mandatory

to me that is enough to steer me away from having my kids in my lap on planes.