Charting-to-Avoid Volume 2

[kemaji]

If you're just curious about charting, looking for answers about your chart, or if you are interested in joining our ranks or joining our discussion, we welcome you. (We welcome lurkers, too!) Feel free to browse through the wonderful information our resident charting "gurus" have prepared on this page and don't be afraid to ask questions!

What We Do
We are a group of women who are using charting, whether on paper and/or through a software program (Fertility Friend, Ovusoft, Babymed, etc.) to PREVENT pregnancy. Many of us have been on some form of hormonal birth control and for whatever reason, decided to stop in favor of charting our cycles. Some women here are just charting for a bit before moving to TTC in the next few months while others are using charting to avoid pregnancy longer term.

How We Learned
Aside from this thread, most of us have read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Wechsler to learn about our cycles and how to chart. Others of us have taken classes and read the book The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley. Many of us have also read Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon, to learn a little more how food and vitamins affect and can improve our cycles. We encourage you to read one or more of the books about charting to enhance your understanding of how you can use your body's signs for safe, effective, and relatively low cost birth control.

TTA Masters : Members, past members, and grads from WC who have successfully charted to avoid for one year or more:

Amy_Awesome ~ ADSigMel ~ Ani ~ bijouparvin ~ Camdynlyn ~ chinadoll ~ christie1979 ~ Clattercote ~ eagleswings ~ elizabeth&doug ~ flygirl ~ Heather 8> (five years) ~ Hammie ~ Ivansbabe ~ Jess12/09 ~ jobride ~ JulAmber ~ JulesHK ~ JulesWed1025 ~ kanga1622 (2 years) ~ kemaji ~ Leilynne ~ Lege ~ LIZNKEITH ~ Mamacita ~ meagle (2 years) ~ mistytsim ~ mmeblue ~ motray36 ~ MrsKinnison ~ myhoni ~ Mystikal ~ PalmBch2002 ~ quartercentury (2 years) ~ Rach_in_Oz (2 years)~ Sabriel748 ~ sensibility ~ Sevilla (2 years) ~ sfaugustbride ~ Sheartm7 ~ tippyanddennis ~ tlew12778 ~ TStanek

[kemaji]

Charting can seem overwhelming at first--so much information, confusing body signs, and worries about whether getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom will affect your temps.

We've all been there--it's normal to feel concerned that you're not going to be able to interpret your body. We all felt the same way the first cycle or two. But as you go you will gain confidence in your ability to interpret your fertility signs, and you'll find yourself knowing the answer to people's questions on this thread.

You may also be surprised at how excited you get about the project of charting because of how much you learn about your body. As I like to say, "It's so interesting isn't it? Like this science experiment you constantly have with you to monitor!"

These next few posts are full of important information about charting. If the explanations seem confusing or overwhelming at first, don't let that scare you away from the thread. They are here for those of us in the thread to refer back to when we have questions or are explaining something.

Just because there's a brief explanation of checking CM or how to find your cervix does not mean that you shouldn't post questions about it. Please feel free to ask us if you're trying to figure something out (like whether the CM you're having is considered 'fertile') and we'll be happy to help you. The ladies on this thread are super-friendly and love answering questions.

This thread can seem intimidating once it gets to a few hundred posts. But please don't let that stop you from joining! You don't have to catch up on the whole thread, just read the first page and then post to introduce yourself, whether it be page 5 or page 35.

Special thanks to Sevilla, Heather8^), meagle and myhoni for their assistance in developing these information posts.

[kemaji]

To start charting you will need a basal body thermometer (available at your local drugstore and Drugstore.com BBT for $12.79)

http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/40512/300.jpg

Internet Resources:

Printable charts
NFP and TCOYF charts are available online for on-demand printing. You need Adobe Reader to access them:
NFP chart (http://www.ccli.org/images/ccchrt1.pdf)
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/library/chartpdf.asp)

Family Planning Abbreviations and Acronyms (http://boards.weddingcha nnel.com/showthread.php?s=& ;threadid=364548&highlight =abbreviations)

Charting Software:
Discussion of various charting programs
DISCLAIMER: These programs should not be relied upon to interpret your chart for you. Very often they miscalculate the day of ovulation and the coverline. You need to learn the method well enough to calculate your coverline and ovulation days because ultimately YOU are responsible for taking charge of your fertility.
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.tcoyf.com
www.babymed.com

Message boards, chart galleries, and other resources:
TCOYF Message Boards (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/)
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.ccli.org NFP~Natural Family Planning. The Couple to Couple League website - includes links to charting classes in your area

Search for Charting-Friendly Healthcare Providers
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/protcoyf/search.asp)
NFP (http://www.omsoul.com/)

Explanations of Charting
Helping identify the Changes in CM (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps401.html)
Different CF/CM Types (http://www.webwomb.com/cervical_mucus_page.htm)
Charting 'cliff notes' site (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps25.html)
Garden of Fertility (http://www.gardenoffertility.com/)

[kemaji]

You will want to purchase one (or both) of these books to help you learn the method of charting. If possible, you may find that taking classes from the Couple to Couple League or other organizations that teach charting (listed in the appendixes of TCOYF) is very helpful. Taking classes can help you to learn to chart more effectively, plus you have expert instructors to advise you about your charts and answer your questions.

Reviews of NFP/TCOYF Books by Sevilla
Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0060937645&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5400000/5401941.gif

Pro's:
* Very comprehensive book that focuses not just on charting but on female health in general, including fertility problems, pregnancy, understanding the menstrual cycle, and overall gynecological health.
* Written in layman's terms for good reader comprehension
* The explanation of how to expel semen through Kegels was very helpful
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs
* How to adjust temps (+/-.1 degrees F per half hour) is very helpful
* Color photos of different types of CM help to interpret it

Cons:
* The rules for determining pre-o safe days are too limited-Not every woman can use the Dry Day Rule unless she gets at least 5 days of fertile mucus. If you're one of the people who only get 1-2 days of fertile mucus, then you could potentially have sex just a day or two before ovulation--and get pregnant.
* The explanation of the rules for determining post-o infertility is not specific enough and readers of the book could misunderstand it. I have had cycles in which I was at Peak Day +4/5 when I had a temp rise, and following her rules I could have gotten pregnant. It should more strongly emphasize that you need both the drying up and 3 days of temp rise to be safe (it does say this, but I thought it was a bit ambiguous).
* Not enough explanation of method effectiveness depending on which rule is used


The Art of Natural Family Planning by John & Sheila Kippley (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412132&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/1720000/1727057.gif

Pro's:
* This is the more technical manual about charting, it's is very specifically focused on teaching the method with scientific language
* It devotes 150 pages just to the basics of charting, not including the additional 200 pages on special situations, pregnancy, and cycle irregularity.
* Very specific rules and methods: 4 different rules to determine your last safe day for unprotected sex pre-o, and 4 different rules to determine your post-o infertility (this lets you choose which rules work best with your body)
* 24 "practice" charts (actual examples of women's charts) with complete explanations and interpretations that cover the whole range of situations encountered
* Detailed explanation of the Last Dry Day Rule (see below for the entire explanation)
* 20 page explanation of effectiveness rates for each individual rule (there's a higher pregnancy rate with using the Last Dry Day rule than using the 5 day rule)
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs

Cons:
* Doesn't address disorders like Endometriosis or PCOS.
* Very dogmatic in its discussion of the "immorality of contraception" and sexual morality from a Catholic perspective
* Information presented in a very technical manner-may be daunting to someone just learning the method

Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412094&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5020000/5021060.gif

This book examines the ways that nutrition and vitamins affect the fertility cycle. Many women on this thread have helped to regulate their hormones and cycles by following the suggestions in this book and it is very insightful into how our everyday decisions about what to eat affects our fertility and cycles.

[kemaji]

Figuring out your Cervical Mucus/Fluid

Dry:
1. Stick a finger in your mouth. Now look at it--this is what it means to be "dry." Your vagina always produces fluid that keeps it clean, this is different from the cervical mucus described below.
2. On dry days you will not have any CM in your undies.

Less-fertile mucus (can be part of BIP-Basic Infertile Pattern or can indicate that you are fertile):
1. Sticky/Tacky CM: Stretches 1/2" or less before breaking. The strands that stretch are very thin.
2. Globby CM (this is my special name for it ): White globs that form little peaks when i stretch my fingers apart. Varies in quantity from almost none to a good amount. Always visible dried in my undies in rectangular/lines like described in TCOYF.

Fertile Mucus: Once you have any type in this category consider yourself fertile until your after your temperature rises--even if your fertile CM dries up for a few days. Stretchiness is very important in determining fertile CM. If in doubt, ask us and we'll help you with your chart!
1. Stretchy Mucus: Stretches 1" or more.
2. EWCM Mucus: Stretches a LOT (up to several inches) and is also very wide when I separate my fingers. Very similar to egg white.
3. Watery: I only see this in my underwear when I’m fertile. It looks like I've "leaked" but I know it's CM. It makes wet circles just like TCOYF describes.
4. Creamy: Looks like runny hand lotion. I get this in my underwear and it forms white spots or patches in my undies and they are sometimes in the middle of watery CM in my undies.

Peak Day: Peak Day is what lets you use your mucus sign to figure out your infertile period after ovulating. Your peak day is your last day of more-fertile mucus before you start drying up. It is NOT necessarily the day with the greatest quantity or quality of mucus, just your last day before you start drying up (meaning you may still have mucus, it will just be tacky instead of EWCM). You only know your Peak Day in hindsight, for obvious reasons. The reason it's useful is that you crosscheck your thermal shift with your peak-day to make sure you're past your fertile stage so you can have unprotected sex.

Figuring out your cervix
Some women find it helpful to use their cervical position (CP) as a third sign in addition to CM and temperatures. If you do not find it helpful or your cervix does not seem to follow a pattern, don't worry about it. You don't have to use your CP and you will still be able to chart effectively.

For those who are interested in charting their CP...here's some advice for common questions:

1. I can't find my cervix!: Just like putting in a tampon for the first time, finding your cervix takes a few tries. Here are some tips:
* Your cervix is the only thing "up there" so if your fingers are touching something, congratulate yourself on finding your cervix.
* Angle is very important-Aim back at an angle for your tailbone instead of straight up and you will find it much more quickly. After charting for 7 months, I still sometimes I feel like I have to search around for it for a few seconds--but that's only when i put my fingers in at the wrong angle.
* Check it during the afternoon or evening (it may be difficult to find in the morning because lying flat while sleeping makes it higher until gravity brings it back down)
* During certain parts of your cycle it may be too high to reach so if you can't find it, try again in a few days.

2. So I've found it, now what? It will take a few cycles to learn your cervix pattern. There are three different changes a cervix undergoes (find which changes are most obvious in your cervix and disregard those that don't seem to correspond):
* Firm to Soft: A firm cervix feels like the tip of your nose, a soft cervix feels like your lips. When your cervix softens this may mean that you are fertile or soon to be fertile. Your cervix may also feel soft right after AF.
* Low to High: Around the time of ovulation the cervix gets higher and after ovulation it drops down to a lower position.
* Closed to Open: If you have not delivered a baby, then you might not be able to feel the difference between closed and open. The cervix opens slightly right around ovulation and closes very tight after ovulation.

[kemaji]

TCOYF Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation

Rule 1: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had a thermal shift 12-16 days before (this is so that you don't confuse menstruation with spotting or other non-menstrual bleeding)

Rule 2: Before Ovulation you are safe the evening of every dry day.

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day patch of fertile cervical mucus (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days-some super-swimmers for even longer. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

NFP Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation
1. 6 Day Rule: Almost all women can use this unless you have cycles 25 days or shorter (in which case you go to only CD5). It says that you can have unprotected sex the first 6 days of the cycle (CD1 starts with the 1st day of AF).
***You can use the 6-day rule right away. However, you should not go beyond it until you have a few charts to reference. Be especially careful not to take chances your first cycle off of BCP, as many women are extra-fertile in that cycle.***

2. 20 Day rule (requires at least 6-12 charts for accuracy): Take your shortest cycle and subtract 20, the answer is your last "safe day." Example: If my cycles range from 30-36 days. 30-20=10. Thus, CD10 is my last day to have unprotected sex.

3. The Doering Rule = earliest day of thermal shift -7. (Requires 6 regular(!) charts, ideally 12 charts) Using your chart history, locate the earliest day of thermal shift. Subtract 7 from the day and that is your last fertile day.
Example: If you have 32-36 day cycles and your thermal shift has been between cycle days 20-24, CD20 is your earliest day of thermal shift. 20-7 is 13. Thus, CD13 would be considered your last infertile day (Last day of Phase I in NFP book).

All the rules for determining "safe sex" times pre-O are subordinate to the Last Dry Day rule. You are still supposed to start checking CM by CD6 (according to the NFP book) while you rely on the other rules. If you get fertile CM super-early it takes precedence over everything else because sometimes our bodies do randomly ovulate earlier than normal.

4. Last Dry Day Rule (most popular rule b/c it makes the fertile window a lot shorter. BUT it also has a higher pregnancy rate than the other rules).

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day mucus patch (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

TCOYF Rules for Post-Ovulation

Rule 3: You are safe the evening of the third day your temperature is above the coverline.

Rule 4: You are safe the evening of the 4th consecutive day after your Peak day.

**Both rules have to be met to be considered 'safe,' if you're going to go by temps alone you should have 4-5 days of thermal shift (according to the NFP book)**

NFP rules for Post-Ovulation (Phase III)

Each rule involves a combination of temp rises and CM dry up. Also, these rules presuppose determining your coverline by NFP rules instead of TCOYF rules.

These rules (except the most conservative Rule C) are based on the principle that the stronger the thermal shift, the fewer days of drying up required. Conversely, the weaker the thermal shift, the more days of drying up required.

Because each woman has a different CM and temp pattern, these rules allow you to choose the one that fits YOUR pattern. (For me, I use Rule B because I dry up 2-4 days before my thermal shift and have a gradual rise)

Rule C (most conservative): The 3rd day or more of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 4 or more days of drying-up, whichever comes later.

Rule K (more emphasis on full thermal shift): The 3rd day of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 2-3 days of drying up past Peak Day.

Rule R: The 3rd day of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 consecutive days of strong thermal shift past Peak Day.

Rule B (more emphasis on the drying up): The 4th day (or more) of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 (or more) days of Overall (or Strong) Thermal Shift past Peak Day.

Definitions:
1. Full Thermal Shift: Three or more consecutive days of temps which are at least .4 degrees above your lower temp level (pre-O temps)
2. Strong Thermal Shift: Temperatures on three consecutive days are at least .2 degrees above your lower temp level and the last temp is at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level
3. Overall Thermal Shift (Gradual): Three or more temps are at least .1 degrees above the lower temp level, they are in a rising or elevated pattern, and at least one of them reaches at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level.

Temperature Only Rule ("Coming off the Pill" rule): You can safely have sex on the evening of the 5th day of thermal shift when the last three temperatures are on consecutive days and are at least .3 degrees above your pre-O temperature level.

Coverlines

How to draw a coverline according to NFP:

1. Look at the six temps that you had before your temp rise, take the highest of those temps and draw a line across your chart - this is your low temperature level (LTL). (For me, my low temp level is always 98.0. My pre-shift 6 could be 98.0, 97.7, 97.8, 98.0, 97.9, and 97.7 and then i would draw the line at 98.0). Your pre-o temps should mostly fall at or below this low temp level, though there are exceptions like high temps during AF and a pre-shift spike
2. To determine your high temp level (HTL), and thus your thermal shift, draw a line .4 degree above your low temp level (For me, my low temp level of 98.0 gives me a high temp level of 98.4)
**A gradual thermal rise is one that doesn't reach to the high temp level right away, but the temps are above your low temp level

This is how I calculate my coverline, though my NFP book refers only to low temp level and high temp level. I have no idea how FF calculates my coverline but it doesn't make sense to me because it's always really low, like this month it says its 97.7, although my low temp level is 98.0 using the method described above.

How to draw a coverline according to TCOYF

1. Identify the first day your temp rises at least two-tenths of a degree higher than it had been the previous six days.
2. Highlight the last six temps before the rise.
3. Locate the highest of those six highlighted temps.
4. Draw the coverline one-tenth of a degree above the highest of that cluster of six days preceding the rise.

[kemaji]

What to expect when charting after taking the pill

Your body may hold on to some of the hormones from the pill, so it is generally accepted that the first three cycles post-pill may be slightly wacky because of these remaining hormones. After the 3-month mark, it is assumed that these hormones are gone, and any chart wackiness that remains is au natural.

Seriously speaking, some of the things that you may see include inconsistent CM observations or observations that don't make much sense (e.g., continuous creamy CM, patches of EWCM at different parts of your cycle, mid-cycle spotting, etc.). Also, you may ovulate right on schedule; however, several women also experience short, long, or anovulatory cycles right off the pill.

If you see these things happen in your first few charts, pay them no attention. Don't think that the pill has permanently damaged you (in 99% of cases of anovulatory cycles post-pill, the pill is NOT to blame), and don't worry that you may be observing your signs incorrectly. You could be 100% correct, but your body may be giving you a pretty hard exam! If these symptoms continue after charting for a while, then you may want to talk to us, do your own research, and talk to your doctor if they concern you because they may be symptoms of other things such as PCOS, etc.

There are other things that you may notice once you're off the pill that are relatively common. Many women experience some random spotting, weight loss, heavier or longer-lasting periods; more painful cramps; increased severity of other PMS symptoms such as bloating, irritability, sore breasts; changed skin characteristics (more/less acne or natural oils), etc. However, you'll also learn more about your body and your fertility and have a much clearer idea of what is going on at every step than you ever knew before!

Also, realize that the pill really has not permanently changed your body, and the cycle characteristics that you had BEFORE the pill are most likely going to return. That's why many women experience the aforementioned symptoms (because the hormones in the pill lessened the symptoms you had before). Also, if you had irregular cycles before, they will probably come back; but this time, through charting, you will know what is going on!

If there's one thing you will learn in this thread, it is that everybody and every body is different. Try not to compare your charts too much to others, especially in the first months after the pill because those charts are not entirely reliable. Use this time as an opportunity to practice checking the fertility signs and to learn as much as you can, and then use charts 4-6 to get a strong handle on your individual signs, what they mean, and how to use them to avoid pregnancy.

[kemaji]

What to do with irregular sleeping schedules

Do you always get up at 4:00am to go to the bathroom? Does your DH wake up before you and interrupt your sleep? Is the dog full of energy and very LOUD for 1/2 hour before the alarm goes off?

Worry not! The general consensus around here is that these things are bound to happen. Yes, TCOYF recommends that you take your temperature at the exact same time every morning, before getting out of bed, after at least 3 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and under the same sleeping conditions every night. This helps you get the most accurate temperatures, and can make your chart much easier to read.

Here in the real world, we realize this isn't always possible. So, our advice is as follows:

Whatever you do, try your hardest to be consistent. Do make a big effort to temp at the same time every day, and mark your chart if you temp early or later than usual. If the goodbye kiss from your DH wakes you up 1/2 hour before your alarm does (and you temp after the alarm), just make sure he kisses you every day!

Also, do temp before getting out of bed. Most of us have noticed that our temps do NOT change that much by an emergency potty break, but it's best to get it done before you get out of bed to eliminate the risk of noise and of accidentally forgetting!

Do use a basal body thermometer, and use the same thermometer every time, even when traveling. This reduces any "noise" that you may get from thermometers with slightly different calibrations.

Mark your chart with anything out of the norm. If it was extra cold out and you used an additional blanket, note that on your chart. If your pajamas were in the wash and you slept nude, note that on your chart. Did you go out to party and went to bed super late last night? Write it down. Did you have any drinks yesterday at that party? Definitely write that down! Some of these things make a BIG difference on your chart, and you'll rest easier and we'll be better able to interpret that chart knowing what was going on.

Lastly, don't worry if you forget one temp or sleep in late once or twice. It happens, and it rarely makes your chart totally useless. But remember that the most and best info that you can get really helps avoid stress later. (And if we're talking about the different between a BFN and a BFP, the LAST thing we need is more stress!)

[kemaji]

Software analysis
based on meagle's use of each for several months

Fertility Friend
Pros
*Basic service is free and you can access it from any computer
*In recording the cervix sign, there are separate options for high/medium/low and soft/medium/firm (this can be more accurate and also help beginners who can only ascertain one of the two parts of the cervix sign)
*It is easy to override
*There are more options for other factors/symptoms – you can record alcohol use, exercise, headaches, cramps, etc.
*There is a choice for “watery” CM, which is a fertile type that is kind of creamy, kind of EW

Cons
*It is designed for women seeking pregnancy
*Only two charts can be posted at one time for those choosing the free service
*VIP service is more expensive than Ovusoft (but VIP is not necessary or recommended for TTAers)

Ovusoft
Pros
*It is for women who are avoiding or seeking pregnancy – you can set it to show when your fertile time starts (based on last dry day rule, first five day rule, your typical CM pattern, etc. – however, remember not to totally trust the software for post-O fertility/infertility!)
*You can show whether intercourse was protected or unprotected
*There are features to calculate future fertility (cycle forecasting) and best time to conceive based upon a preferred due date (delivery planner)
*The graphics are cool
*The rules the software follows are more closely linked to TCOYF, since the software was developed for this purpose
*There are reports you can print for your doctor, etc.
*All of your charts can be posted at once
*There is a pop-up box each day that details what is happening (hormonally) in your body depending upon where you are in your cycle
*There is a pop-up reminder to do a monthly breast self-exam
*You record your CM and your vaginal sensation (dry, moist, wet, lubricative)

Cons
*It costs about $40
*You have to find it on the internet on CD-ROM or download it
*The program runs from your hard drive and you “publish” your charts – if you are away from home and don’t have a laptop, there is no way to update your charts until you get back to YOUR computer with YOUR database
*The cervix sign combines both aspects, that is low=firm, medium=medium, high=soft
*It is not compatible with Macintosh/Apple
*It is more difficult to override calculations
*Your database could be wiped out (like any document on your HD) so you need to back it up frequently
*There are fewer choices for other factors affecting one’s chart – no choice for headache, cramps, etc.
*You must have Java scripts enabled to view others' web-based charts

Summary reviewWhat finally made me switch was the recent update in Ovusoft’s software which made it possible to publish protected intercourse versus unprotected intercourse, some pressure I got from ladies on the Ovusoft boards (they’re a different bunch than the WC crowd), and the fact that I’m in this charting thing for the long haul – I will be TTA for at least two more years and then I will use charting to TTC. It seemed like a worthwhile investment, especially since it was only a bit less than two months of BCP copays. Fertility Friend is a good service for sharing one’s charts with others on the thread, but it you’re enticed by cool graphics, reports, features, etc. – then you’ll get tired of it pretty quickly.
04.2004

[kemaji]

The manager for this thread is kemaji.

If you have stat changes or want to add to your stats, please use this format to the extent you wish to disclose your info:

screen name/chart link (if applicable/wanting link) Post both WC & LJ names if different
Real name: ___ (age)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: ___ (age)
Occupation: ___
Married (date of or date planned): ___
Started charting (date, if known): ___
TTC: _date_ if known

Please post updates in red so they are visible to the thread managers.

If you have previously been a member and you do not see your stats on this list just repost them in the current thread and you’ll be added again.

How to share your TTA chart with the rest of us

That is, if you don’t mind potential chart stalkers

How To Link Ovusoft Charts
From the software, go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> WebCharts Publishing Wizard

Follow instructions to set up online account (username and password), then when complete, you will see a screen that gives the location of your web charts (for if you want to put it in your signature, etc.).

Every time you update your chart (or once a day or once a week) from now on, just go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> Quickie! and it will update your web chart with the new information.

You may link your chart in your siggy, and/or ask to have it linked through your name on the roll call on page 1 of this thread.

How to upload Fertility Friend
Login to FF, you should be in "My Chart". Click on the "Sharing” button (4th button on the top). From there, click on the "Home Page/Ticker Setup" button. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, there will be a box on the right hand side that says "Available Charts". Double click on your current chart, then hit the button that says "Add Chart". Page should refresh automatically, and your chart should now be in a box on the left side (on the bottom of the page). At the top of the page, you'll see a red URL. That's the link to your home page, with your pretty chart on it. It's yours for the copying. Make sure that you click "Save Settings" if you make any changes to the settings.

Also in the home page, you can change any settings, like to publish DTD or not. If you want to let everyone see when you've made a note in your chart (where a circle becomes a square) click on the “My Settings" tab.

What do all those letters mean?

Most commonly used abbreviations in here:

Anti-grad: Is a person who was TTA and became pregnant. In the history of this group (started Fall 2002) we have never had someone become pregnant when following the rules. Every one of our antigrads can point to the rule(s) they broke when they conceived their bundles of joy and they're the first to say that charting does work!
AF: Aunt Flow, your period. Lovely monthly (or nearly monthly) visitor, at least if you are TTA.
BC: Birth Control
BD: Baby-Dancing (sex). You'll see this term in the older threads... now we use DTD since we don't wanna be making no babies in the TTA thread!!
CM: Cervical Mucus or fluid, also used for Creamy cervical mucus
CP: Cervical Position
DPO: Days Past Ovulation, or days into the luteal phase.
DTD: Doing The Deed! (sex for fun, not baby-making)
EWCM: Egg-White Cervical Mucus, the most fertile type
HPT: Home Pregnancy Test
FAM: Fertility Awareness Method, charting and using BC during the fertile period
FF: Fertility Friend (www.fertilityfriend.com), which is a free on-line charting service. You can also have VIP privileges for a fee.**
Graduate: A person who successfully TTAs and then moves on to TTC.
LP: luteal phase, or the time after ovulation. This is usually determined by the time between the beginning of your thermal shift through the arrival of your period.
NFP: Natural Family Planning, same as FAM but involves abstaining during the fertile period
O: Ovulation
pg: Pregnant
POAS: Pee On A Stick (that is, take an HPT)
TCOYF: Taking Charge of Your Fertility
TTA: Trying To Avoid (makin' babies or getting pregnant)
TTC: Trying To Conceive
UDD: Unprotected Deed-Doing. That is, sex with no other form of birth control other than FAM. A true sign of a confident TTAer! ONLY DURING THE INFERTILE TIME (unless you want to be an antigrad)

[kemaji]

Who We Are


abear (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/cde5c)
Real name: Alyssa (25)
DH's name: Paul (25)
Occupation: creative manager
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: Late 2007-2008

ADSigMel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fd5e) (melodymarie83 on WC)
Name: Melody (22)
FH's name: Ali (25)
Occupation: Law Student
Married : November 19, 2005!
Started charting March 2005
TTC: 2007

AHammer (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ahammer)
Real name: amy (23)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: michael (22)
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): july 30, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): october 4, 2005
TTC: summer of 2008

akacharlotte (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/dd10b)
Real name: Stacey(33)
BF's name: Jason (30)
Occupation: CSR
Married (date of or date planned): Not married but going ring shopping this weekend
Started charting (date, if known): 01/06
TTC: after we get married

Ani (AnilovesPeter on WC)
Name: Ani (22)
FH's name: Peter (22)
Occupation: Student
Married : Sept 2, 2006!
Started charting May 2004
TTC: unknown

Angelfish (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/ttc/index.php)
Me = 27
DH = 26
Occupation - Student
Married - November 2001
Started charting - February 2005
TTC date = Summer 2007 (?)

angelpalgt (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/105b00)
Real name: Kendra (25)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Josh (25)
Occupation: User Experience Developer/Project Liaison
Married (date of or date planned): 05/17/2003
Started charting (date, if known):12/12/2005
TTC: someday

angelraven (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/c822b)
Real name: Heather (22)
FH's name: Matt (22)
Occupation: Network Administrator (me) Programmer (him)
Married: July 31st, 2004
Started Charting: July 2005
TTC: End of 2006?

boilermaker (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/eb589)
Real name: Carrie (29)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: John (30)
Occupation: Marketing
Married (date of or date planned): 03.02.02
Started charting (date, if known): 10.02.05
TTC: next summer

candy corn (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/108b75)
Real name: Diane (26)
DH's name: TJ (25)
Occupation: cancer researcher
Married: October 22, 2005
Started charting: December 21, 2005
TTC: 2013

chinadoll (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7e2e1)
Ovusoft Chart (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=china%5Fdoll)
Name: Rachel (26)
DH: Graham (26)
occupation: part-time grad student, part-time librarian
married: October 16, 2004
started charted: December 2004
TTC: undecided

Clattercote (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/81249) (Clatter on WC)
Name: Jana (29)
DH: Andrew (30)
Occupation: Professor at a sm. liberal arts college
Married: 5/21/05
Started Charting: August 2004
TTC: Uhhh... sometime 2006

clzj (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/53585)
Real name: Lynn 31
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Charles 31
Occupation: desktop admin
Married (date of or date planned): Married 6/8/02
Started charting (date, if known): First time 4/04 Got a BFP 3/05, Second Time 12/05
TTC: Sometime 2006
Children: DS (Isaiah) 4/24/03, Angel Baby 10/26/05

daftgirraffe
Real name: Renae (18)
FH's name: Ben (30)
Occupation: whatever work is available
Wedding Date: 21st Apri 2006
Started charting (date, if known): haven't started yet
TTC: I say April 2007, FH says Jan 2008....we'll see.

dana92504 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/DanaFFChart)
Real name: Dana (24)
DH: Chad (25)
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
Married: 9.25.04
Started charting: August 2005
TTC: probably nevah!

dpangel33 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1177de)
Name: Danea - 22
DH's name: Patrick - 25
Occupation: Admin Asst / Student again in Fall '06
Married : Oct 16, 2005
Started charting: Jan 2006
TTC: 2010

EmilyBronte (also EmilyBronte on LJ)
Age: 29
DH: 37
DS: JFK, born 1/5/05
Occupation: SAHM for now
Married: June 12, 2004
Started charting: Feb 2004 with break for TTC and baby, began again March 2005
TTC: Sometime in 2006

eagleswings (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/44e46)
Name: Erin (21)
DH name: Luke (20)
Married on: June 5, 2005
Charting since: February, 2004
TTC: summer 2006 at the earliest, probably 2007 or later

EmilyZA
Real name: Emily (27)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Dan (27)
Occupation: Marketing Support Rep
Married (date of or date planned): Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Possibly ASAP
TTC: Possibly Fall of 2006, we're waiting to buy a house
Children: Just a furbaby-- Vinny, our chocolate lab

FEIrider (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a14d2) (horsinaround on WC)
real name: Erin (25)
DH (28)
Occupation: Engineer by day/ Horse Trainer by night
Married: 10/12/02
Started charting: 4/05
TTC: 2007ish

Fluffy Bunny (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/22ea0) (Begunda on WC)
Name: Linda (28)
DH: Dave (31)
Occupation: chemistry grad student
Married: December 28, 2002
Started charting: April 2003
TTC: someday

fsb2005 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41)

FSUSammy
Real name: Sam 26
DH's name: Gary 29
Occupation: Programmer
Married: Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Will start 12/05
TTC: ???

gantry_g (36)
DH: mr. g (37)
Married: 10/04
Occupation: Librarian
Started Charting : 7/05
TTC: summer 2006

granada (umwhee on WC) (29)
DH: DH (34)
Married: August 2004
Started charting: January 2005
TTC: ???

Harmony96 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/d1b58)
Name - Andrea (27)
DH name - Tim (24)
Occupation - waitressing
Married - April 17, 2004
Off pill and charting as of - August, 2005
TTC - January 2006

HisSpicy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/e2063)
Real name: Natalie (20)
FH's name: Rodney (22)
Occupation: Student
FH's Occupation: Student and Auto Detailer
Married: date not set
Started charting: 9/4/05
TTC: Long time from now!

honeygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424)
Ovusoft (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl)
Real name: Anne (late 20's)
DH: Honeyboy (jk, I don't post his name) (also late 20's)
Occupation:Social Worker
Married: Dec 03
Started charting: August 05
TTC:May 2006

jude29
Me: 28
DH: 30
Occupation: HR Generalist
Married: June 4, 2005
Started charting: February 2005
TTC: Late 2006/early 2007

Karner01 (Karner01/http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/cb1b8)
Me: Karen Age 27
Started charting July 05
TTC: ??

katiej (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=knadikj)
Real name: Katie (23)
DH: Pedro (20)
Occupation: teacher
Married: 22 December 2005
Started charting: 11 September 2005
TTC: hmm...whenever insurance covers it...!

kemaji (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=kemaji) (mutt189 on WC)
Name: M (28)
DH's name: B (31)
Occupation: Marketing
Married: July 3, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): September 2004
TTC: 2007?

Kinetic
Me: Kristina (26)
DH's name: Gary (28)
Occupation: Almost a licensed Architect
Married: May 14, 2005
Started charting: I'm starting this week!
TTC: late 2006?

kissmary (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/112767)
Real name: Mary (26)
DH's name: John (28)
Occupation: Librarian
Married : June 26, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: ??

KRL626
Real name: Kate (27)
DH's name: Ricardo (27)
Occupation: Teacher
Married 6/26/04
Started Charting: Nov. 04
TTC: Aug/Sept. 07

ktina0803
Real name: Kristina(25)
DH's name: Cory (25)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 08/09/03
Started charting: 11/17/05
TTC: not for a long time

ladybug1196 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=ladybug1196)
Real name: Lesley(23)
DH's name: Mike (24)
DD: Lily Janette, 5/9/05
Occupation: SAHM
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 11/28/05
TTC: not really sure...maybe late 2007, early 2008

Leilynne
Name: Leilynne (23)
DH: Jon
Occupation: Dietary Aide
Married: May 12 2001
Started charting : March 1, 2004
TTC Date: Never

LeslieandPaul (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/977c7)
me: Leslie, 22, receptionist
FH: Paul, 28, technologist
married: August 20, 2005
started charting: March 2005
TTC: unknown

LIZNKEITH (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/30d9c)
Name: Liz (26)
DH: Keith (34)
DD: Caroline, June 15, 2005
Occupation: Claims Assistant
Married: July 28, 2001
Started charting: April 2003
TTC #2: June 2007 or 2008

LondonMo
Real name: Monique (26)
DH's name: Murray (30)
Occupation: project planner
Married : 28 May 2005
Started charting (date, if known): haven't started yet
TTC: not for a long time - 5 years +

[kemaji]

Who we are, continued

mamacita (27)
DH: 25
Kids: 2 dds born August '01 and April '05
Started charting: March 2003
TTC: I think we're done.

mandersald (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/98b9d)
name: Mandy (25)
DH: Scott (25)
occupation: PhD grad student (acoustics)
married: 8-27-04
started charting: 4-05
TTC: who knows, 2007?

meagle (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=martese)
Me = 28
DH = 29
Occupation - Non-profit/manager
Married - May 2000
Started charting - July 2003
TTC date = Late 2006 or early 2007

mmeblue (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/3c7a1)
Real name: Amanda (24)
DH: Derek (26)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: 12/21/02
Started charting: January 2004
TTC: eventually (undecided)

Mom2Cole (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/cdbc9)
Real name: Moni (30)
DH's name: Randy (37)
Occupation: SAHM
Married: 9/21/2002
DS: Cole~2/20/2004
Started charting: July, 2005
TTC: August, 2006

motray36
Real name: Tracy (25)
Married: June, 2004
Started charting: Oct, 2004
TTC: July 2006

MrsHill (http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill) (32)
DH: B (41)
Occupation: SAHW
Married: 9/24/05
Started charting: 11/2005
TTC: June-ish 2006

nonewnames (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7cb4b)
Real name: Becca (26)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Sean (25)
Occupation: lowly grad student
Married (date of or date planned): 7/24/04
Started charting (date, if known): 12/2004, with a 5 month hiatus 4/05-9/05
TTC: 7/2006

orchidrose
Me: 31
DH: 28
My occupation: Teacher
Married: 2003
Started Charting: June 2005
TTC: Around July/August 2006

Pookie
Me: 27
DH: 27
Married: 5/25/02
Charting: 12/02 until 7/04
DS: Ryan 3/15/05
TTC: not sure if there will be a #2, but if there is probably when DS turns 2

raven077
Real name: Karen (28)
DH's name: Kyle (29)
Occupation: Graphic Designer
Married: October 29, 2005
Started charting: (mid) March 2006
TTC: end of 2006 or early 2007

Reenie (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1002c9) (autumnbride1113 on WC)
Real name: Reenie, 24
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Eric, 25
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): November 13, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): December 2005
TTC: Summer of 2007 or later...

RobynScott
Real name: Robyn (29)
DH's name: Scott (31)
Occupation: Attorney
Married: August 29, 2004
Started charting (date): January 2006
TTC: Spring 2006

ryansgirl
Me: 24
FH: 28
Occupation: theater/talent mgmt
Will Marry: October 6th, 2006
Off bcp since: never really on it
Started charting: Feb 2006
TTC: 2008

sdauer21 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6adf9) (spedtchr on LJ)
Real name: Sonya (32)
DH's: Will (31)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 31, 2002
DD's: Tallia (1/14/03), Abigail (7/26/05)
Started charting: November 2005 (charted from Aug - Nov. '04, too)
TTC: Earliest would be August '06, if I can talk DH into a third!

sheartm7
Real name: Emily (24)
BF's name: Jeff (24)
Occupation: Admin Assistant
Married (date of or date planned): NA
Started charting (date, if known): March 2004
TTC: not for a long time!

Smittenk (Smittnkitten on WC)
Real name:Alison 28
DH's/FH's/BF's name:Mike 36
Occupation: not working at the moment
Married: April 03 2004
Start charting: 14 October 2005
TTC: Don't know

southerner (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2)
Name: 30 (in January)
DH: 31
Married:August 2003
Started Charting: January 2006
TTC: Spring/Summer 2006

SQ2 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=bgum78)
Real name: Rachel (27)
DH's age: 27
Married: 8/15/04
Started charting: 11/23/05
TTC: September 2006

stephie61706 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11ed58)
Real name: Stephanie (24)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jason (25)
Occupation: Athletic Trainer
Married (date of or date planned): Planned June 17 2006
Started charting (date, if known): Feb. 2006
TTC: 2008 or 2009

stevesbabygirl (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.a...stevesbabygirl)
Real name: Heather, 26
DH's name: Steve, 28
Occupation: Surgical technologist
Married (date of or date planned): 8/31/03
Started charting (date, if known): Around 2/23/06
TTC: Maybe 2006

strwbrygirl (haskalah7 on LJ)
Age: 27
DH's age: 27
Occupation: Customer Support Mgr
Married: June 22, 2002
Started charting: May 2005
TTC: undecided

suzfuzsunflower (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/90828)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 9, 2003
Started Charting: April, 2004
TTC: When my body adjusts to being off bcp. Current cycle is day 85.

tashaw6
Real name: Natasha (27)
DH's name: Neil (26)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 25th September 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 20 February 2006
TTC: 2007

tippy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/48927) (tippyanddennis on WC)
Real Name: Tiffany (25)
DH: Dennis (24)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: June 26, 2004
Started Charting: March 30, 2004
TTC: 2010ish

tlew12778 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7381b)
Real name: Tiffany (27)
FH's name: Carlo (31)
Occupation: Financial Analyst (me), MD (him)
Married (date of or date planned): April 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): October 2004
TTC: 2007?

Wagsgirl
Me: Tonya (29)
DH: Ryan (29)
Occupation: SAHM
Wedding date: 11/10/01
Children: Briley 10/28/02 Greydon 2/18/05
Charting: charted to conceive DS 12/03-6/04, none since
TTC: Octoberish 2006

wonderpup262
Carrie: 30
DH: 30
Occupation: full time product manager, part time MBA student
Married: Oct. 03
Started charting: Jan. 06
TTC: We should wait til 2008... but can we hold out that long?

[kemaji]

When we're moving on to TTC by Year


2006
angelraven
boilermaker
Clattercote
clzj
EmilyBronte
EmilyZA
gantry_g
Harmony96
honeygirl
Kinetic
Mom2Cole
motray36
MrsHill
nonewnames
orchidrose
RobynScott
sdauer21
southerner
SQ2
stevesbabygirl
Wagsgirl

2006 - 2007
eagleswings
jude29
meagle
raven077

2007
ADSigMel
Angelfish
FEIrider
Graffy
kemaji
KRL626
mandersald
Pookie
Reenie
tashaw6
tlew12778

2007 - 2008
abear
daftgirraffe
ladybug1196
LIZNKEITH

2008
AHammer
ryansgirl
wonderpup262

2008 - 2009
stephie61706

2010
dpangel33
tippy

2013
candy corn

Someday/Undecided
Ani
Angelpalgt
chinadoll
Fluffy Bunny
FSUSammy
granada
HisSpicy
karner01
katiej
kissmary
ktina0803
Leigh0918
LeslieandPaul
LondonMo
mmeblue
sheartm7
Smittenk
strwbrygirl
suzfuzsunflower

No more for me/Don't want children
dana92504
Leilynne
mamacita

Moved on to TTC/SWH
Mystikal (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/RaeK622) ~ May 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due June 27, 2006
flygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/flygirl) ~ June 2005
polkadot (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/b9a0d) ~ July 2005
heather 8^) ~ July 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due July 2006
cat_loverpq (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/da20b) ~ August 2005
Leigh0918 ~ August 2005
Sabriel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4431c) ~ August 2005 ~Pregnant! Due August 2006
Sevilla (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/1b18e) (rae_anna46 on LJ) ~ Pregnant! Due April 2, 2006
pickle ~ August 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
ABirney (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrsabirney) ~ September 2005
ajlanden (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/2fdee) (ShyAnn on WC) ~ October 2005 - Pregnant! Due August 2006
Aletheia (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a0c60) ~ November 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due September 2006
quartercentury (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/3313f) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
lawgirl4 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a6770) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
M&M614 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/df46b) ~ December 2005
giry76 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/781ab) ~ December 2005
berry ~ December 2005
MrsKinnison (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/89c6c) ~ December 2005
BethIrish ~ December 2005
bijouparvin ~ January 2006
lege (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=lege) ~ January 2006
Kanga1622 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/28596) ~ February 2006

Anti-grads
Graffy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fab4) ~ Pregnant! Due June 2006

[kemaji]

Charting-to-Avoid Volume 2 is now open!

As a first order of business, please check in and check your stats so we can maintain a current roster. If there are any changes, please update them and post in red.

Thanks!

[lawgirl4]

yippee! thanks for creating the new thread.

my cycle is totally bizarre this month. later O than usual, and super-early spotting - like CD 7. On the flip side, I am definitely seeing a clear pre/post-O temp shift - yay for that, since TTC is now less than 2 months away (wow!).

[clzj]

clzj
Real name: Lynn 31
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Charles 31
Occupation: desktop admin
Married (date of or date planned): Married 6/8/02
Started charting (date, if known): First time 4/04 Got a BFP 3/05, Second Time 12/05
TTC: Sometime 2006
Children: DS (Isaiah) 4/24/03, Angel Baby 10/26/05


How do you start after a pg

[Clattercote]

clzj - If you've never charted before, I'd recommend taking a class on charting, because identifying fertile and infertile phases is doubly tough after pg. ETA: Oops, I just now noticed in your stats that you have charted before - sorry. But a refresher course might be helpful... Your hormones are trying to regulate out, and all sorts of things can throw off interp. If you're bfing exclusively and haven't had AF yet, and you are under 12 mo pp, you can generally assume that pg is very unlikely (between 1 and 6 percent chance of Oing before your first pp period, depending on which book you read). After first AF, begin temping and checking CM - though expect that your temps will not necessarily show a pattern for a while (they might, they might not), expect that your most fertile CM may have a different quality than it did before pg, and expect that your LPs will be shorter than normal for a couple of cycles. The biggest thing is to check CM - at first sign of CM assume you're in your fertile phase, and use protection or abstain; also begin temping at this point.

The Art of NFP is most helpful for sample pp charts - and it's got several chapters on charting pp.

PSA from a friend of mine who's been charting postpartum for 2 years - don't worry about not getting consecutive 3 hrs of sleep when you're temping pp - the point is that you have overall consistency in temping and that you can see a temp pattern. So, if your common practice is that you wake up 3 times per night, most nights, go ahead and temp - that is a consistent pattern of sleep. I say, go ahead and temp anyway, record the temps, and discard whatever is out of range.

[Harmony96]

Yay a new thread. :D I have a small change to my info. My occupation is now waitressing.
Thanks :)

Andrea

[Clattercote]

tlew - In all the hubbub of changing threads, I forgot to ask: what is this Fertility Friend that you're taking? I'm intrigued...

[angelraven]

I'm done with school and have a job so I can update my occupation. YIPPEE!!!

Occupation: Network Administrator (me) Programmer (him)


Thanks for getting the new thread up and running kemaji!

For those of you who have been following along with my wacked out business, I took a test and barely got ANY lines so I think I got a defective test. I'm going to wait a week or so and do it again. I do have some creamy CM today! That's an improvement!

[Janey]

Kemaji - thanks for the new thread! :)

AF came late last night so I am counting today as CD1 and I temped this morning. I've decided to enter the #'s into both FF and Ovusoft until my 2-week Ovusoft trial is up to see if I want to go ahead and spend the $40 on it. That Chinadoll uses it and it helps adjust her sleep patterns may make it pretty useful to me as well. I was up at 3, 4, and 5:30. B leaves the house at 7am so we decided to use that as a Temp Time. This morning he slept in, however... so I temped when he got up, which was at 7:17 AM.

Also ... I dreamed about charting last night. :o

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Welcome clzj!

[sdauer21]

clzj First, I wanted to say how very sorry I am for your loss! I see that you have an angel baby, and I thought you mentioned that you had gone full term? You are in my thoughts, as you must be going through a very difficult time right now!

As for charting after pregnancy...I'm certainally no expert, so take this with many grains of salt. I assume you are probably still experiencing some bleeding from your delivery. I think it probably makes the most sense to start temping anytime, and just indicate bleeding patterns, as you would in a normal cycle. Following both of my deliveries, as well as my m/c, it took a few weeks for my body to get back on track. I see that you have a little one with you, as well, so you have done the post partum stuff already. With my first daughter, my body jumped right back into normal cycles about 6 weeks after delivery, and that was even though I was breastfeeding. With my m/c, it took one full cycle before my body was back into a normal routine, and that was when I started charting. I counted the day of my m/c as the first day of my cycle. That is probably somewhat different, though, as I was only about 11 weeks, at that loss, and not full term.

Big {{hugs}} to you!! I am so sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry I can't be better help with your charting questions! :(

[MrsKinnison]

Wow, how time flies. I can't believe we are on a new thread already. Welcome to all the newbies!!! I am 9DPO on Cycle 11, and have been trying the green tea thing for CM but so far have only seen a difference in infertile CM....now I'm trying carrots too.

[motray36]

Thanks for the new thread! Welcome to all the new people :D

[granada]

Thanks kemaji for being threadmistress! :D I'm going to be a 1-year charter soon!

[tlew12778]

tlew - In all the hubbub of changing threads, I forgot to ask: what is this Fertility Friend that you're taking? I'm intrigued...
Did I write Fertility Friend? I meant Fertility BLEND (http://www.fertilityblend.com/).

[Tonysweetie]

Afternoon ladies> Sorry I haven't been in forever. I was in a car accident on Wednesday and just haven't felt like doing much so I'm sure my charting is wacked right now. Today is 6DPO and had some spotting and a temp. rise this morning but who knows what all that means. Just waiting for 14DPO and AF to arrive. Yippie, lol NOT! haha. I'm so glad it's Friday. Anyways on my car accident. I'm okay just bruised and sore. My car was a trash so DH and I are looking into new ones. Boy am I glad now I didn't end up pregnant this past cycle b/c I don't even want to imagine what would've happened being that early along. Anyways just glad everything is okay. I'm outta work til' Monday and DH stayed with me the past 2 days and tonight my MOm is taking me to the mall ot get me outta the house. Have a great Friday girls. God Bless!!!

[FSUSammy]

Hey everyone I'm new to the board. I found this site thanks to Sevilla's bio on thenest. I've decided to go off of BCPs because I'm tired of the way they make me feel. I went off of Yasmin in July of this year because of my low sex drive and now am on Estrostep but that has caused major migraines which I can't stand. Also, my sex drive hasn't gotten any better. So tonight after work I'm running out to go pick up TCOYF as well as a Basal Thermometer. I have two more weeks on the pill, the second week being the sugar pills. I'm looking foward to getting some great advice from you ladies.

-Sam

FSUSammy
Real name: Sam 26
DH's name: Gary 29
Occupation: Programmer
Married: Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Will start 12/05
TTC: ???

[clzj]

Clattercote-I have charted before. This time I am charting after a still birth. I am not breastfeeding because of the loss.

sdauer21-thanks for the tipes. I am still in the pp bleeding. 3 weeks since the still birth.

[kemaji]

clzj -- I'm so sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine how difficult it must be.

FSUSammy -- Welcome!

Updated to here.

As part of the housekeeping, I was going through our stats and noticed that Gia and giry76 both were planning on TTC starting in 2005. Since we are almost to the end of the year, does anyone know if that has changed?

[Tonysweetie]

clzj: So sorry for your loss. God Bless!!!


I tell you what ladies this just has not been my week, but it could be worse. First I'm in a car accident on Wednesday and now I think I have a UTI! UGh! I'm going to the doc. in the morning. I'm having trouble urinating b/c it burns, I feel like I have to go constantly, and I'm bleeding when I use the restroom and I'm just downright uncomfterbale. Mom took me to get some cranberry juice until I can get to the doc. in the morning. I have no car so DH has to cancel is flight lesson (he's takin flying lessons on sat mornings) to take me to the doctor to get some antibotics. Sheesh! I've never had a UTI before but from what I've read that is what it sounds like. Scary though! Yikes! :eek: The cranberry juice is helping but I'm going against my diet by drinking it. That stuff is loaded up with sugar and carbs! GoodNess. Anyways I'll try to update after I see a doc. tomorrow. Have a great night. God Bless!!!

[tlew12778]

Yup, sounds like a UTI to me. You can also drink lots of water instead of the cranberry juice. To get the full effect of cranberry juice you should find the natural stuff (no sugar added) in health food stores but it tastes GROSS. You can buy the pills though. But just drink tons of water. You need to flush out your system.

[kemaji]

I've gotten a UTI once or twice and I get the 100% juice (no sugar added) and mix 1 part juice, 2 parts water. That makes the sourness bearable.

[Tonysweetie]

Yea I've been drinking my juice in water like crazy and it's defintly helping the discomfort. I'm seeing a doctor later today. What will they do to me? I don't have to get a pap done do I? DH is taking me around 1.

[jesseybell]

I am so sorry for you :( I have had a bunch of them and they are just horrible!! You will just need to pee in a cup, but I've gotten to the point where I can call up my doctor and get the medication.
They will give you antibiotics. If they don't also give you another medication, you get get it at CVS or the such - it is called Uristat (there are some other brands too) It turns you pee bright orange but it helps with the discomfort until the antibiotics can kick in. I can't live without this medication when I've had UTIs.

[Clattercote]

clzj - I am sorry for your loss, too. I must have missed that in the original post and I apologise.

[Clattercote]

tonysweetie - It's been the week for UTIs, then - I had one on Sunday and was dealing with the loveliness of that earlier this week - my advice is to drink LOTS of water (like, just keep going for glass after glass) and straight (no sugar, no applejuice, no honey - that helps the little beasties) cranberry juice. I mix my cran juice with seltzer water to make it palatable. The doc will give you antibiotics... you should feel much better in 24 hours.

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks ladies I'm waiting for Mom to get here to take me. I've been drinking cran like it's going outta style, lol. I'll update when I get back. God Bless!!!

[tlew12778]

The other thing they might do is take a rectal and oral temp. I've only had that done here in Italy, but it's one of the indications aside from the PIAC test. Apparently when you have a UTI your rectal temp is higher than your oral one.

[Tonysweetie]

Well went to the doctor. and they found nothing wrong. They did a pregnancy test and a UTI test and both were negative. They gave me a precrition anyways though. They were concerned about the blood in my urine but didn't say much. They want a followup in a week if I don't feel better. I only got 3 tablets in my antibotic. I just hope this goes away. Ugh! I'll keep posted.

[meagle]

clzj - Muchos {{{{HUGS}}}}. I'm very sorry about your loss.

Tonysweetie - Hope that you get relief from your UTI symptoms soon. Sorry about your car accident, too.

[SQ2]

Hi, ladies! http://www.kenandkeli.com/images/smilies/hiya.gif

I figured a new thread would be a good time to join. I've been lurking for a little while. I'm going off the pill at the end of this cycle so I'll start charting when I get my period next week. :D Have read part of TCOYF (the important parts anyways) and am thoroughly enjoying the book. Can't wait to read more. Feeling a little nervous about starting this charting thing and am not sure I'll do it right at the beginning but practice makes perfect, right? Plus I know my cycles will probably be weird for awhile having been on the pill for 7 years. We are planning to TTC next fall and I really wanted to rid my body of the hormones for awhile before we try. I'm excited to see how my body reacts to being off the pill and just intrigued by everything I'm learning in TCOYF. I'm also hoping my sex drive returns, which is another reason for going off the pill now, but I know it doesn't happen for everyone so I'm not getting my hopes up too high. Here's my info:

SQ2
Real name: Rachel (27)
DH's age: 27
Married: 8/15/04
Started charting: 11/23/05
TTC: September 2006

Question: I'm still trying to decide which site to use for charting. (And I know I asked about this in the last thread but I'm still confused so please bear with me.) I don't plan to purchase any of the software and would like a charting system I can access from any computer. Now I *think* that means I need to use Fertility Friend, right? I'm remembering that Ovusoft you can't access from anywhere? The reason I'm confused is that some of you do have Ovusoft charts online so I would think you could access those from anywhere. I like the graphics on Ovusoft and the fact that it's the companion to TCOYF. Also, I'm still a little put off by the fact that Fertility Friend strongly emphasises that it is not a site for people TTA pregnancy. (And I know that you don't rely on the charts completely to determine when you are fertile.) But, on the other hand most of you seem to be using Fertility Friend so there must be some benefit to it over Ovusoft.

:confused:

Can anyone help me out? Which should I use? Do any of you just use online charts or does everyone get the software? Does anyone use old fashioned paper and pencil?

Thanks so much! I'm really excited to be joining this group and can't wait to learn more from everyone here.

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- Welcome! Fertility Friend is the free program that you can access from anywhere. Ovusoft is installed on one computer and you can upload your chart to the Internet so anyone can view it, but you can only make changes from the computer your software is installed upon.

I use Ovusoft because I liked how it was made to be a companion to TCOYF as well as I thought the graphics were better. I do find it an inconvenience sometimes that I can't update it from just anywhere, but usually that means I'm travelling and I don't usually temp across time zones (my family is on the west coast, I'm on the east coast).

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[motray36]

Hi everyone!

FSUSammy and SQ2- Welcome!

Tonysweety - Im very prone to UTI's, so I feel your pain! As some people have said...regular cranberry juice is worse for you than if you did nothing at all. The negative effects of the sugar completely outway the benefits of the cranberry. So, go completely health-store natural or use the tablets.

FSUSammy- I used paper charts for about 10 cycles, then switched to FF so I could share them online easily. FF is free, I like to be able to access it from anywhere, and the "for TTC only" thing doesnt seem to matter at all.

CD10 for me...nothing interesting!

[meagle]

SQ2 - Welcome to the thread! I use Ovusoft for the very reasons you cited. I like the graphics and I like that I can access it on my laptop. Even though I can't always 'publish' my chart to share with others when I'm traveling if I can't get internet access, I can still update it daily. Even though you can access Fertility Friend virtually anywhere, I'm paranoid and didn't always like to access it from other people's computers because it showed up in their web history. I had used paper charting along with software for about my first 15 or so charts but now only use Ovusoft - my temps are much lower than most charts go so it's just cleaner for me to use software than to have to white out the temps and put my 96's in. I think the primary benefit for most using Fertility Friend is that it is free and I think that's why so many ladies in this thread use it. On the other hand, the one-time Ovusoft fee is about the cost of a copay for a pack of BCP. Ovusoft used to offer a free trial - you may want to check that out and decide by using it whether it's worth the investment or not. HTH!

ETA: The straw that broke the camel's back for me was spending some time on the Ovusoft boards - one lady on the TTA boards made me (and others) feel kinda guilty and I just crumbled. :rolleyes:

[Tonysweetie]

Hey girls. Well I would hit the healthfood store but there not open today. So I've been drinking OceanSpray Cranberry. I'm feeling MUCH better today. I took my 2nd antibotic, 1 more tomorrow. But every now and then I see a tad bit of blood but not nearly as much as before. So things are looking up...hopefully! Thanks for all the advice! This sucks, lol

[SQ2]

kemaji Thanks for the info! :) I'm from the west coast too and live in the midwest. DH is from the east coast so we do lotsa traveling, especially around the holidays. So, you don't chart when you're traveling? How does that work with respect to TTA pregnancy? I imagine I could do paper charting when I'm traveling and then input the info into Ovusoft when I get home? I got a free trial disc with my TCOYF book so I'm going to give it a try I think.

meagle Yikes, I didn't even think about FF showing up in the internet history (i.e. at work! :eek: ) I don't bring my laptop with me all the time when traveling but I'd imagine I can just do paper charting in when away from home. Thanks for the info! :D

motray36 Thanks, I'm excited to be here. :D

[Quartercentury]

Yeah for the new thread!!! Although, sniff sniff, I won't be around very long... I am leaving for Asia and our TTC adventure in 17 days!!! Although, I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on this cycle. Hopefully I will be back to normal by next month!

SQ2 is that avatar from The Man in the Moon?

[tlew12778]

FWIW, I chart while I travel. I take my temp at the normal time (8AM in whatever time zone I am in) and I just make a note of it on my chart. It doesn't usually affect my temps unless I haven't slept in 24 hours (in which case I don't temp that day obviously).

My chart is driving me nuts this month. So much watery CM! And I even had a temp spike that I swore was O due to sore BBs and CM, but no, it dropped back down today. Grrrr. This is really sucky from the UDD standpoint... late O with early fertile CM. :mad:

[SQ2]

SQ2 is that avatar from The Man in the Moon? Yup! Probably my favorite Reese movie (and her first too).

[dana92504]

woohoo i can start from the beginning of a thread! :D ....my stats are still the same

clzj - i'm sooooo sorry for your loss (((HUGS))) :(

tonysweetie - glad to hear you're ok from your accident! AND a UTI?!?! man, sounds like you had a craptastic weekend :p . hope you're feeling better!

welcome SQ!

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- Now that I've been chartying for more than a year, my cycles are fairly predictible in as much as I know when my O will be within a couple days. As long as any travel is before or after O, it doesn't affect it much. If I'm travelling during O, we're just extra careful that particular month.

My temps seem to be affected when I travel over 3 time zones for some reason. Perhaps it is because I temp so early in the morning (5:30am) or perhaps it is something else. But I've found that it us just easier to not temp for short trips because the jet lag makes a difference. So, I'll temp for a 2 week trip because I get adjusted, but not for a 3 day trip.

[lawgirl4]

important question!

I am so unclear on when to mark the 1st day of AF. How do you all discern between "spotting" and "light AF"? The first day you have a heavier flow? The first day you have redder blood? I have had an extremely light AF for the past 3 days and I am just not convinced that I have reached my "start" day yet... Is there a set rule for this?

[Janey]

kemaji, I have a chart now, to link up with my stats:

http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill

I slept in until 8:30 today & Ovusoft 'fixed' my temperature because of it... so now I have 3 days at the same temp. (Forgive the newbie in awe of everything) I think I'm going to go ahead and buy the Ovusoft... it seems worth it. Also I had to email tech support on Saturday afternoon with an installation problem, and she wrote me back at 8:30 on a Saturday night!

[kemaji]

lawgirl - For myself, whenever I have to use anything heavier than a panty liner and it is red (not just brown), I count it as AF.

Updated to here.

[Clattercote]

lawgirl - I do what kemaji does - any time the flow is heavy enough for a pad, and is bright red.

quartercentury - We'll miss you! I'm so excited to hear about your trip though!

Charting while travelling - I do keep charting when I travel but I often throw up my hands in despair. :rolleyes: Travel over even one time zone throws my body off and makes my Os 4-5 days later. (I think it's trying to tell me it doesn't like airplanes!) My body also, when travelling, likes to manufacture waaaaay more fertile CM than is possible necessary. Travel over two time zones or more throws my temps way off so I can't use them because there's no pattern (even if I'm staying in one place for a week or so). If it's not right around O I don't worry too much - if it's around O I use CM only rules and, sometimes, OPKs, depending on how out of whack my CM is. I've got a really fussy body - and it's annoying because I actually LOVE to travel!

[kanga1622]

Just stopping by to subscribe to the new thread. I don't have time to catch up today, maybe tomorrow. AF is expected on Thanksgiving or on Friday for me so I'm pretty bummed. I hate traveling with AF. :(

[SQ2]

AF is expected on Thanksgiving or on Friday for me so I'm pretty bummed. I hate traveling with AF Right there with ya, Kanga. AF is coming on Wednesday for me, right when we leave for a looong drive. But, this is my last week of BCPs so I'm really curious to see what happens with AF (and my body in general) when I come off the pill. I'm expecting AF to get longer. Ya'll will probably hate me for this but my period only lasts 4 days with really only a day or 2 of "heavy" bleeding. I say "heavy" because I think (from what my sister has told me) it's not really that heavy at all. I know the pill can do that and I'm actually weirdly looking forward to getting my real period back.

[honeygirl]

Right there with ya, Kanga. AF is coming on Wednesday for me, right when we leave for a looong drive. But, this is my last week of BCPs so I'm really curious to see what happens with AF (and my body in general) when I come off the pill. I'm expecting AF to get longer. Ya'll will probably hate me for this but my period only lasts 4 days with really only a day or 2 of "heavy" bleeding. I say "heavy" because I think (from what my sister has told me) it's not really that heavy at all. I know the pill can do that and I'm actually weirdly looking forward to getting my real period back.

I had the same type of period while on the pill. Pretty light and quick. Now that I'm off the pill (4th month off) my periods have been even lighter (I only need liners, not big pads or tampons) but LONG. My last cycle had 6 days of spotting and 7 days of AF. Yuck. I'd rather have heavy and short.

[kemaji]

Right there with ya, Kanga. AF is coming on Wednesday for me, right when we leave for a looong drive. But, this is my last week of BCPs so I'm really curious to see what happens with AF (and my body in general) when I come off the pill. I'm expecting AF to get longer. Ya'll will probably hate me for this but my period only lasts 4 days with really only a day or 2 of "heavy" bleeding. I say "heavy" because I think (from what my sister has told me) it's not really that heavy at all. I know the pill can do that and I'm actually weirdly looking forward to getting my real period back.

Be prepared for anything, especially if you have been on BCP for a long time. I was only on it for about 2.5 years (off and on) and before I started, my periods were 5 - 6 days of heavy to medium flow. While on BCP, they were 4 days of light flow. Now that I have been off for over a year, they are still 4 days and until the last 2 - 3, hadn't really increased in quantity. These last couple, I still have 4 days, 3 of which are heavy. Basically, anything goes.

[Tonysweetie]

When I went off BCP back in July I had pretty normal periods. They came like they used too before starting them. 5-6 days of medium flow then light at the end. Same thing happened when I stoped them. They have just been a little irregular though.

[kissmary]

I just wanted to say that I like this thread! I haven't had any questions or problems, but I like checking in. It's cycle day 9 for me with nothing unusual to report. :)

[angelraven]

Just popping in here to give an update of sorts. It's CD37 today. My temps are still running high. I had some CM a couple days ago, now today I have some brownish spotting. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not perhaps in the midst of an annovulatory cycle.

[sdauer21]

So a random question to show my total niavety with charting :o Is it possible to have O'd really early this cycle, like CD 8 or 9? And is it possible to O without having EWCM? This is my first cycle off BCP, which I was only on for 2 months following the birth of my DD. I'm still BF almost exclusively, so I'm guessing things are just weird right now, and that AF may have gone away for a while. But there's that little tiny voice in the back of my head, giving me doubts. :)

[Aletheia]

Hi all! Kemaji reminded me to come by to officially graduate myself from the TTA thread. I'm moving on, so wish me luck!

Good luck with the charting, ladies! I sure hope my charting knowledge pays off in a quick and easy BFP.

[clzj]

Help. I have several questions for you all.

1) When do you start to chart after having a child/stillbirth? No breastfeeding here.
2) I have my thermeter from before but don't know how to start this time.


Any advice is helpful.

[lawgirl4]

honeygirl -
"Now that I'm off the pill (4th month off) my periods have been even lighter (I only need liners, not big pads or tampons) but LONG. My last cycle had 6 days of spotting and 7 days of AF. Yuck. I'd rather have heavy and short."

I've pretty much been like that too. though I do tend to have slightly shorter days of spotting and AF, and 1 or 2 days of a legitimately "heavy" AF.

[tlew12778]

Re: Post BCP AF - Mine went back to 5 days. It was down to 3 days on the BCP. I have about 1 day of heavy flow, 1 of medium and 3 of light (liner type light) or spotting.

angelraven - Do you have a chart link?

sdauer21 - Technically yes... I don't get EWCM every month. I am rather sure that with PP cycles, anything goes. This is FF's blurb on charting while breastfeeding (http://fertilityfriend.com/Faqs/Fertility_charting_while_breastfeeding.html). Basically it says that your temps may be erratic so to look for fertile CM.

Aletheia - CONGRATULATIONS! GL with that BFP!

clzj - I would say to either start now and just call your first day CD1 then when AF comes, discard the cycle when you are calculating your stats OR wait until AF comes to start. There is no disadvantage to starting now IMO. At least you would have an idea of what is going on with your body rather than being in the dark and getting a surprise visit from AF.

I am wondering if I have a staircase rise this month. I have never had that before... we're still playing it safe for a few days anyway since there is no clear O yet.

[Clattercote]

sdauer - Since the temps are staying low now, I'd say that O on CD 8-9 is quite unlikely. I suppose it is possible, but I think the high spikes you saw are your body's natural fluctuations, especially with bfing thrown in there as well. Keep an eye out for fertile quality CM, and keep in mind that your most fertile quality may look different pp than it did before.

clzj - I would go ahead and start charting now by looking mostly for CM. Charting after stillbirth and without bfing means you should be expecting your fertility to return sooner than later - and in a lot of these cases O happens VERY quickly. Be on the lookout for very fertile CM - and also know that your body is going to be regulating itself out, so you may see random spotting and short LPs in the months ahead. I would go ahead and temp, too, although your temps are *probably* going to be erratic for now, as they would in any pp situation. Your best bet is keeping an eye out for fertile CM, and as in sdauer's case, your fertile CM may look quite a bit different than it did before pg. But who knows, you may see a nice temp pattern right off the bat.

Aletheia! Congrats and good luck with TTC.

angelraven - IA with Tiffany - do you have a chart we could look at?

[FSUSammy]

Hey everyone, thanks for welcoming me. On Friday night I went out and bought TCOYF and on Saturday I got a basal thermometer that I hope won't cause me too much grief. I'm about half way through the book already. I've learned a lot that I didn't know but I'm anxiously awaiting starting this next week. I'm on my last week of active pills and I should technically be able to start charting next Wednesday. I'm very curious to see how my body reacts without BCPs in my system. I know it might take some time to get back to whatever normal is for my body.

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight?

Sam

[angelraven]

Here is my chart. As I said earlier, I have not been consistent this month at all. The first couple of weeks were really hectic, and I did not temp. Therein lies the problem because now I have no idea what my body did/is doing.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/c822b

Also, I did take a test last Thursday, but the test was defective, as the control line did not show. I should probably retest soon.

I've also been having pains in my left ovary fairly consistently the last couple of weeks, as well as nausea for about the last 10 days. I have started a new job, so it is possible that stress could be the culprit for a lot of my symptoms. Average cycle time has been around 43 days, so maybe I shouldn't even worry until then.

Thanks for your input on this ladies.

[tlew12778]

for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight? Nope.

[tlew12778]

angelraven - Those are some high temps... What is your avg CL like? I noticed that in your last chart your pre-O temps are in the 97 range.

[Janey]

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight? Sam
Every month with the nuvaring I would gain/lose the same 3 pounds. Unfortunately going off the pill was no magic weight-loss panacea.

[kemaji]

Congratulations Aletheia! Let us know when you get your BFP!

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight?

Me neither.

Angelraven ~ It is really difficult to say what is going on based on the information we have but to me it does look like you have had some sort of temperature shift, just because CD1 is so much lower than your current temps. I can't remember...did you end up taking a PG test?

clzj ~ Based on what I've read, I was going to recommend what Clatter and tlew have posted. I would temp just to get back in the habit and get an idea of what your body is doing, but know that because you are probably still regulating, they may be erratic. Since you're coming off a pregnancy and you don't have a formal CD1 for a cycle, I would just record from now until AF as a cycle and make a note of that in your chart. Then, when you get AF you can start a new cycle. I agree with paying close attention to your CM because that will be a better indicator of fertility.

[angelraven]

Tiffany: By CL do you mean Cycle Length? Sorry, I am abbreviation challenged. lol If you mean that, they're an average of 43 days long. Those are some high temps. Even in previous cycles, they're not quite that high.

kemaji: Yes, it does look like there was a shift somewhere, but since I didn't temp, we'll never know for sure when and that's what stinks. I took an HPT last Thursday, but the control line barely showed up, and there was only a very faint line in the results pane. Since the control line was almost non-existant, I figure I better test again soon just to make sure.

[Tonysweetie]

Question: I started spotting yesterday (brown light spotting) my period isn't due for another 4-5 days. What's the deal? I also had a major dip in my temps. like below the coverline then it rose back up to post O temps today. I'm confused???! TIA!

ps I'm CD28 and 10DPO today but I usually get AF at 14DPO w/spotting started on that day.

We had PDD 4 and 5 days before O and on the day of O but it was the withdrawl method if that helps any and then UDD 5DPO

[Clattercote]

angelraven - CL, in NFP speak ;) , means coverline. In other words, in what range do your low temps usually fall, and in what range do your high temps usually fall? To me it looks like you've got 18 high temps in a range that looks (based on previous charts) like your post O temp range, and so I would strongly suspect pg. Like you say, it could be stress, it could be illness, but as you already suggested, I'd take the HPT again. But let us know where your average coverline falls and that would tell us more.

[Clattercote]

Tonysweetie - First off, I'm highly suspicious of where FF put your O, because there's a temp dip on CD 20 and still some fertile CM on CD 19. I'd be more inclined/more comfortable to put O at CD 21, which means you'd be at 8 DPO. As for the spotting, I don't know - you had some on CD 24 and now you're having it again. When you spot post-temp shift, it can indicate several things, including low progesterone, and possible pg (implantation spotting). Post BCP, spotting can also simply indicate that your body is regulating out - you could be seeing the start of what will be AF, and that will mean your LP is short for this cycle. It wouldn't be cause for alarm about short LPs yet - you'd want to give your body a bit more time to regulate itself. On the other hand, if your O was more where I'm suspecting (CD 21), that just means you're having a longish cycle and again, your body's trying to regulate itself.

Basically, I don't think there's enough data here to make a call yet - it's a wait-n-see thing.

[tlew12778]

Tonysweetie - I don't agree with your O date. Or your CL for that matter. Especially so if your CP is accurate (although... I always take that with a grain of salt since CP moves throughout the day and it's usually pretty hard for a woman who has never been pregnant to distinguish what "open" is). I would say CD20 with a CL of 97.8... did you UDD on CD21 thinking that FF was correct with your O? If you had risky DTD, I would wonder if you have an implantation dip and implantation spotting... if you did not have risky DTD, then I wouldn't worry about it for a while (basically until you see a long LP).

[angelraven]

Clattercotte: OH! Coverline! DUH! lol My average CL is around 97.5, so all of these temps I've had are above the CL. Ok, so I think I'll test tomorrow. Yikes!

[honeygirl]

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight?
Sam

I lost about 2-3 lbs, which is a lot for me b/c I'm small (115-116 lbs now).

[motray36]

angelraven- It does look like you're at least 18 DPO, but its hard to say with the lack of information in the middle (which I am NOT harrassing you about because as everyone here can attest to, I have been bad over the past few cycles!)

Question in regard to something Tonysweetie mentioned....does withdrawal count as PDD? I always put it as UDD because of the unreliability.

CD12 here, waiting to O sometime between Nov. 30 and Dec. 21. I really wish I had "normal" cycles. Sometimes it is very discouraging to not be able to reap the benefits of charting (by benefits I mean knowing around when I will O or AF will come). I think that's what makes it so hard for me to stay on top of it - my brain says, "what's the point." Sorry for the rant, it must be the depression of the rainy day getting to me! :o

[kemaji]

Question in regard to something Tonysweetie mentioned....does withdrawal count as PDD? I always put it as UDD because of the unreliability.

I personally have never considered it UDD for exactly that reason.

[tlew12778]

I agree with Kemaji. I would never consider withdrawal conservative enough for TTA purposes. But then again, I guess it depends on how much you want to avoid.

[Tonysweetie]

THanks Clattercote and tlew for the advice. I guess I"ll just wait and see. The only UDD we had was a few days after O. The times before were PDD. Yes we consider withdrawl as Protected b/c like someone said it just depends how much you want to avoid. Withdrawl has been our protected method for al onnnnnggg time now. If it happened through withdrawl then well thats' wonderful! :) We rarely have UDD but if we do it's usually a week after O usually just days before AF arrives. The spotting has continued today up until about 2 hours ago and it disappeared. I'm not having any of my Post O symtpoms like sore bb's, bloating, cramps none of that. I usually by now have sore bb's and majorly bloated and cramps. I feel totally normal. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I'm not suspecting an accidental PG b/c we really didn't even have PDD or UDD around the time of O. It was about 6 or 7 days before. Thanks again for the advice :)

[dana92504]

tonysweetie - i've also had those symptoms post O: mild spotting and i usually get a dip below CL (which never fails to freak me out that it's implantation :eek: ). and if you're not worried about being pg b/c of when/how you DTD, i'd just wait and see....oh, and i agree that FF is a bit off on your O - i'd also say cd20 fwiw

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks Dana, I'm not too worried about a PG scare so I doubt it's implantation but trust me it ran across my mind a couple times but I'm just going to wait and see if AF shows like usual. I do not recall us having a mishap with DTD this month so I s hould've have a reason to be worried I guess. But I always hear that withdrawl isn't the best method but it has worked so far hehe so we shall see :)

[bijouparvin]

I'm frustrated with CM. I just can't seem to get the hang of it and it doesn't follow any reliable pattern that I can see. I have found that my charts are pretty standard, temp-wise, but when temps are wonky (like this cycle) I feel totally in the dark. Today, for instance, just to make sure, I checked CM just now and it's sort of an opaque lotion with some small, slightly stretchy globs. I always thought that if it stretches at all, it's potentially fertile CM but I'm pretty sure I'm way past O so now I don't know what's up. I surrender to the gurus of charting on this one. Help! My Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/7edaa)

[tlew12778]

bijouparvin- What's your post-O temp range normally (or your average CL)? The reason I ask is bc your last chart (whose CL I am not sure is correct bc there is not enough pre-O data) is at 97.5 which, IMO, is much too low to even consider for this chart (not that that means much). If you use the rule of thumb on CD16, I would be inclined to call O around CD22 actually (despite the lack of CM which you say you are not confident in interpreting). A couple more days of temps should confirm a shift or not.

When you say "slightly stretchy globs", how far is stretchy? Are you sure it's not just peaking? Creamy CM will peak.

********
Can someone take a look at my chart and tell me what they think is going on? I am rather confident I have O'ed bc I have dried up (no notable CM after CD21) and I am in my avg. post-O temp range now. My earliest/latest O is CD17/CD23 and my lowest CL has been 36.35 with highest at 36.5.

[boilermaker]

Well this explains why the other thread wasn't showing any action in my subscription list...

Welcome to the new members!

bijou, I'm not much help, but I can sympathize with you on the CM thing. I've been trying really hard this cycle to monitor it, but I have no idea if I'm actually calling it right. I'm hoping I can at least figure out the dry stages :)

I'm curious to see what you experts say about Tiffany's chart. My very very basic knowledge would agree that you O'ed.

I'm a little worried about the comments some of you have made about traveling. I just moved to a new position that is going to have at least one if not more trips a month. Now I'm scared this is going to screw everything up.

Somebody asked earlier about BC and weight. I didn't gain any weight when i went on the pill and I didn't lose any when I went off of it.

[MrsKinnison]

So, FF took away my crosshairs today???? Originally FF called my O on cd12, which I totally agree with, but took it away today. I just don't get it!!!

[Clattercote]

bijouparvin - It took me over 8 months to figure out what was fertile quality CM for me, and even now I sometimes throw up my hands in despair! So - you're not alone in CM frustration. It's definitely the most subjective of the signs and is very dependent on each individual body.

Compare what you described in your post to the most, most fertile quality you have in any given month. If you have clear and very stretchy fertile CM, then by comparison this is neither of those and is probably infertile. If you have watery CM at your most fertile point, same thing. If, however, your most fertile CM is lotiony with some peaks like you describe in your post, there could be a couple things going on and you might want to be cautious with UDD- one is that you're seeing the result of a post-O estrogen surge a couple days before AF; some people see fertile quality CM as a result, even though you're not fertile. In this situation, I UDD anyway, because that's my body's pattern. The other possibilities are that you haven't Od or this is a very random case of CM. Some people see fertile CM 4-5 or so days after a sure temp spikeIn this situation, don't UDD until you're sure (from dry up or temp sign) that the CM you saw was a fluke.

One piece of advice that I've been following (which will NOT work for everyone, btw) is only to observe what is on the tp, since I get a lot of CM, and it can change consistency when it's been sitting on undies for awhile. I do a tp check before and after I use the toilet and I chart the most fertile quality I see on the tp.

[Clattercote]

tlew - I think you're right - this is a stair-step pattern. I don't have my books with me to figure it out exactly, but I'd go with setting a CL at 36.5, or the LTL at 36.4 and the HTL at 36.8. I'd predict O around CD 20-21, coinciding with the CM, but would hold off on UDD till tomorrow evening, assuming that your temp rises again tomorrow.

ETA: Boilermaker - See what your body does - if your body doesn't show temp patterns, then you may want to try CM only rules - or perhaps try another method like Marquette (Marquette's rules make use of the clearblue fertility monitor in conjunction with CM - but is WAY expensive - is definitely not for everyone, but for people who travel often and don't see temp patterns, it might be a solution)

[lawgirl4]

mrskinnison - I'm not totally sure why your crosshairs were removed, but just by glancing at your chart, I think you really need more temp data for all of the post-CD12 days! i would be nervous relying on a chart with so many absent temps... just a suggestion!

[motray36]

mrskinnison - I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that FF took away your crosshairs because you've dipped below the HTL a few days in a row with no AF. I agree with lawgirl4 that you need to stay on top of temping! (Ive made this disclaimer before and will do so again...I'm not pointing fingers because Im terrible at being consistant!)

[Coccinelle]

Newbie here!

screen name:ladybug1196
Real name: Lesley(23)
DH's name: Mike (24)
DD: Lily Janette, 5/9/05
Occupation: SAHM
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 11/28/05
TTC: not really sure...maybe late 2007, early 2008

[tlew12778]

HAHAHA so FF gave me a free VIP trial again and when I logged on this morning before entering my temp, it predicted a 15 day period! Can you imagine?

Anyway so apparently my rise is called a saw-tooth rise (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps405.html#interpretingtemperaturereadingsslug). The crosshairs on FF are wrong, so I need to override... I am thinking CD20 with a CL of 36.5 (like you said Clatter). Technically according to celsius charting, I could put it at CD18 but I had watery CM after that, so it's a wait and see game with the length of the LP to determine when I really O'ed.

Has anyone ever read anything about what causes the different types of rises? I was under the impression that most ppl had the same type of rise each time, but while I have generally have classic rises, I have also had slow rises and now this saw-tooth one. I wonder if it has to do with the Fertility Blend... hmm...

[MrsKinnison]

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Missed TempsAccording to TCOYF, after 3 high temps confirms O it is not neccessary to temp until the next cycle. I still temp for most of my post O cycle, but like to skip some mornings only because I work so much and often get home very late at night. Some nights I don't get home until after 1am and then I still need 30-45mins at least before I can wind down enough to sleep. I do sometimes miss a temp pre O, but I try very hard not to. I have no doubt I O'd on CD 12 because all my normal signs were there. Unfortunatley I just haven't had much CM at all, but I do get very pronounce O pain. However, I still think it was very strange that I had so many low temps without AF (finally showed today)??? Maybe just chalk it up to another strange cycle since there seems to be so much of that going around??

In other news DH and I leave for a mini vacation to Montreal today!! We are driving up right after dinner to celebrate our 1st anniversary on Sunday and coming back on Monday. I can't believe it has already been a year!!! I've never been to Montreal so I am even extra excited!!!

I also just started my 12th chart. With any luck AF will behave and only stay her typically short visit!

I hope everyone has a happy and safe turkey day!!!

[Coccinelle]

Do any of you ladies have ovulatory pain? If so, can you describe it to me?

Last month, about a week before my period (but I didn't know my period was that close yet - I had just gone off BC the month before and it was a little early) I had pain in the lower left side of my abdomen..at one point that I had to walk stooped over. It did get better but I was pretty concerned about it and the morning I was going to call my OB/GYN to make an appointment, my period arrived. So a few days ago, I get this pain again, but in my right side instead. I am wondering if this is the ovulatory pain that I have read that some women get.

(I haven't been charting yet, DH and I have been using condoms and spermicide..I know once I am charting I will be able to determine this on my own, but it will be another month before I at this point in my cycle again and want answers now ;) )

[MrsKinnison]

ladybug The best way I can describe my O pains is like having a stitch in my side. It can be pretty uncomfortable and typically last for a few hours. As you start charting you will be able to tell for sure, but it sounds to me like that is probably what you are feeling.

[tlew12778]

Sounds like O pain to me. Especially bc it changed sides this month. Usually O flips back and forth. Although, only a week before your period would mean a very short luteal phase. Of course, that is rather common after BP, but it's something you will want to keep your eye on once you begin charting.

[angelraven]

Happy Thanksgiving ladies! Hope everyone had a wonderful day with lots of goodies to eat.

I've been having a lot of cramps, and they feel like AF cramps, so rather than going out and buying another HPT I just decided to wait it out a couple of days. I'm still pretty convinced that it's stress that's causing all of my wackiness. My husband reminded me that it has happened before.

Aside from that, I am getting a sore throat, so I'm going to bed.

Anyone brave enough to battle the crowds on Black Friday? :D

[Quartercentury]

I hope everyone had a great holiday! I'm not celebrating until tomorrow, but got a bit weepy and whatnot yesterday when I realized that we might have a baby next Thanksgiving. AF arrived after a weirdly stressful cycle, so, that's it, ladies. I am no longer an avoider. We'll be TTC as soon as I get my hands on FH again!

I'm graduated! :D

[chinadoll]

well, my cycle has been interesting this month. I'm on day 37, which makes it my longest cycle since charting began by more than 5 days! I've had very regular 28-30 day cycles until this one. I think it may be because of a new medication I started last month, or maybe my body is just trying to throw me a curve. This morning I had a significant temp drop so I'm pretty sure AF is on the way. [does anyone else still get REALLY freaked out by the possibility of pg? i do.]

a few pages back some of you were discussing Ovusoft vs. FF and I will put in my plug for Ovusoft again. I love it. I'm obsessive so I still use FF because I like to compare the two, but FF is a lot less reliable, in my experience. I like Ovusoft's graphics, the ability to adjust temperatures based on waking time), and it's just easier for me to read. You can't access it online--the downside--but when I am away I either paper-chart or enter in FF and then update Ovusoft when I get home.

[Tonysweetie]

CD31 13DPO no AF in sight. I'm not even having any PMS symptoms like always. I ALWAYS get sore BB's just after O but notta yet. Only thing I have is some fatigue. I'm wondering if I haven't even O'd yet. But had the CM and the temps. so I have no idea what is going on. I guess I'll just wait and see if she shows in the next few days. I realyl thought she was going to start earlier this week with the 2 days of light spotting I had but that went away. hmmmm :confused:

[kemaji]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

QC ~ yay, I'm so excited for you! We'll definitely miss you so come back to visit once in a while and updated us should you get PG while on your travels.

angelraven ~ This is my first and last Black Friday experience. We went to Best Buy and stood in line in the snow to wait for it to open. We had to get up at an ungodly hour and they were out of most of what we wanted before the doors opened.

ladybug ~ I'm sorry, I don't get O pains.... welcome though!

****

As for me, we went up to DH's parent's house and I was a moron and forgot my therm. I'm all but positive I O'd, however based on CM and this would make it one of the latest O's I've ha