Charting-to-Avoid Volume 2

[kemaji]

If you're just curious about charting, looking for answers about your chart, or if you are interested in joining our ranks or joining our discussion, we welcome you. (We welcome lurkers, too!) Feel free to browse through the wonderful information our resident charting "gurus" have prepared on this page and don't be afraid to ask questions!

What We Do
We are a group of women who are using charting, whether on paper and/or through a software program (Fertility Friend, Ovusoft, Babymed, etc.) to PREVENT pregnancy. Many of us have been on some form of hormonal birth control and for whatever reason, decided to stop in favor of charting our cycles. Some women here are just charting for a bit before moving to TTC in the next few months while others are using charting to avoid pregnancy longer term.

How We Learned
Aside from this thread, most of us have read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Wechsler to learn about our cycles and how to chart. Others of us have taken classes and read the book The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley. Many of us have also read Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon, to learn a little more how food and vitamins affect and can improve our cycles. We encourage you to read one or more of the books about charting to enhance your understanding of how you can use your body's signs for safe, effective, and relatively low cost birth control.

TTA Masters : Members, past members, and grads from WC who have successfully charted to avoid for one year or more:

Amy_Awesome ~ ADSigMel ~ Ani ~ bijouparvin ~ Camdynlyn ~ chinadoll ~ christie1979 ~ Clattercote ~ eagleswings ~ elizabeth&doug ~ flygirl ~ Heather 8> (five years) ~ Hammie ~ Ivansbabe ~ Jess12/09 ~ jobride ~ JulAmber ~ JulesHK ~ JulesWed1025 ~ kanga1622 (2 years) ~ kemaji ~ Leilynne ~ Lege ~ LIZNKEITH ~ Mamacita ~ meagle (2 years) ~ mistytsim ~ mmeblue ~ motray36 ~ MrsKinnison ~ myhoni ~ Mystikal ~ PalmBch2002 ~ quartercentury (2 years) ~ Rach_in_Oz (2 years)~ Sabriel748 ~ sensibility ~ Sevilla (2 years) ~ sfaugustbride ~ Sheartm7 ~ tippyanddennis ~ tlew12778 ~ TStanek

[kemaji]

Charting can seem overwhelming at first--so much information, confusing body signs, and worries about whether getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom will affect your temps.

We've all been there--it's normal to feel concerned that you're not going to be able to interpret your body. We all felt the same way the first cycle or two. But as you go you will gain confidence in your ability to interpret your fertility signs, and you'll find yourself knowing the answer to people's questions on this thread.

You may also be surprised at how excited you get about the project of charting because of how much you learn about your body. As I like to say, "It's so interesting isn't it? Like this science experiment you constantly have with you to monitor!"

These next few posts are full of important information about charting. If the explanations seem confusing or overwhelming at first, don't let that scare you away from the thread. They are here for those of us in the thread to refer back to when we have questions or are explaining something.

Just because there's a brief explanation of checking CM or how to find your cervix does not mean that you shouldn't post questions about it. Please feel free to ask us if you're trying to figure something out (like whether the CM you're having is considered 'fertile') and we'll be happy to help you. The ladies on this thread are super-friendly and love answering questions.

This thread can seem intimidating once it gets to a few hundred posts. But please don't let that stop you from joining! You don't have to catch up on the whole thread, just read the first page and then post to introduce yourself, whether it be page 5 or page 35.

Special thanks to Sevilla, Heather8^), meagle and myhoni for their assistance in developing these information posts.

[kemaji]

To start charting you will need a basal body thermometer (available at your local drugstore and Drugstore.com BBT for $12.79)

http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/40512/300.jpg

Internet Resources:

Printable charts
NFP and TCOYF charts are available online for on-demand printing. You need Adobe Reader to access them:
NFP chart (http://www.ccli.org/images/ccchrt1.pdf)
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/library/chartpdf.asp)

Family Planning Abbreviations and Acronyms (http://boards.weddingcha nnel.com/showthread.php?s=& ;threadid=364548&highlight =abbreviations)

Charting Software:
Discussion of various charting programs
DISCLAIMER: These programs should not be relied upon to interpret your chart for you. Very often they miscalculate the day of ovulation and the coverline. You need to learn the method well enough to calculate your coverline and ovulation days because ultimately YOU are responsible for taking charge of your fertility.
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.tcoyf.com
www.babymed.com

Message boards, chart galleries, and other resources:
TCOYF Message Boards (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/)
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.ccli.org NFP~Natural Family Planning. The Couple to Couple League website - includes links to charting classes in your area

Search for Charting-Friendly Healthcare Providers
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/protcoyf/search.asp)
NFP (http://www.omsoul.com/)

Explanations of Charting
Helping identify the Changes in CM (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps401.html)
Different CF/CM Types (http://www.webwomb.com/cervical_mucus_page.htm)
Charting 'cliff notes' site (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps25.html)
Garden of Fertility (http://www.gardenoffertility.com/)

[kemaji]

You will want to purchase one (or both) of these books to help you learn the method of charting. If possible, you may find that taking classes from the Couple to Couple League or other organizations that teach charting (listed in the appendixes of TCOYF) is very helpful. Taking classes can help you to learn to chart more effectively, plus you have expert instructors to advise you about your charts and answer your questions.

Reviews of NFP/TCOYF Books by Sevilla
Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0060937645&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5400000/5401941.gif

Pro's:
* Very comprehensive book that focuses not just on charting but on female health in general, including fertility problems, pregnancy, understanding the menstrual cycle, and overall gynecological health.
* Written in layman's terms for good reader comprehension
* The explanation of how to expel semen through Kegels was very helpful
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs
* How to adjust temps (+/-.1 degrees F per half hour) is very helpful
* Color photos of different types of CM help to interpret it

Cons:
* The rules for determining pre-o safe days are too limited-Not every woman can use the Dry Day Rule unless she gets at least 5 days of fertile mucus. If you're one of the people who only get 1-2 days of fertile mucus, then you could potentially have sex just a day or two before ovulation--and get pregnant.
* The explanation of the rules for determining post-o infertility is not specific enough and readers of the book could misunderstand it. I have had cycles in which I was at Peak Day +4/5 when I had a temp rise, and following her rules I could have gotten pregnant. It should more strongly emphasize that you need both the drying up and 3 days of temp rise to be safe (it does say this, but I thought it was a bit ambiguous).
* Not enough explanation of method effectiveness depending on which rule is used


The Art of Natural Family Planning by John & Sheila Kippley (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412132&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/1720000/1727057.gif

Pro's:
* This is the more technical manual about charting, it's is very specifically focused on teaching the method with scientific language
* It devotes 150 pages just to the basics of charting, not including the additional 200 pages on special situations, pregnancy, and cycle irregularity.
* Very specific rules and methods: 4 different rules to determine your last safe day for unprotected sex pre-o, and 4 different rules to determine your post-o infertility (this lets you choose which rules work best with your body)
* 24 "practice" charts (actual examples of women's charts) with complete explanations and interpretations that cover the whole range of situations encountered
* Detailed explanation of the Last Dry Day Rule (see below for the entire explanation)
* 20 page explanation of effectiveness rates for each individual rule (there's a higher pregnancy rate with using the Last Dry Day rule than using the 5 day rule)
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs

Cons:
* Doesn't address disorders like Endometriosis or PCOS.
* Very dogmatic in its discussion of the "immorality of contraception" and sexual morality from a Catholic perspective
* Information presented in a very technical manner-may be daunting to someone just learning the method

Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412094&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5020000/5021060.gif

This book examines the ways that nutrition and vitamins affect the fertility cycle. Many women on this thread have helped to regulate their hormones and cycles by following the suggestions in this book and it is very insightful into how our everyday decisions about what to eat affects our fertility and cycles.

[kemaji]

Figuring out your Cervical Mucus/Fluid

Dry:
1. Stick a finger in your mouth. Now look at it--this is what it means to be "dry." Your vagina always produces fluid that keeps it clean, this is different from the cervical mucus described below.
2. On dry days you will not have any CM in your undies.

Less-fertile mucus (can be part of BIP-Basic Infertile Pattern or can indicate that you are fertile):
1. Sticky/Tacky CM: Stretches 1/2" or less before breaking. The strands that stretch are very thin.
2. Globby CM (this is my special name for it ): White globs that form little peaks when i stretch my fingers apart. Varies in quantity from almost none to a good amount. Always visible dried in my undies in rectangular/lines like described in TCOYF.

Fertile Mucus: Once you have any type in this category consider yourself fertile until your after your temperature rises--even if your fertile CM dries up for a few days. Stretchiness is very important in determining fertile CM. If in doubt, ask us and we'll help you with your chart!
1. Stretchy Mucus: Stretches 1" or more.
2. EWCM Mucus: Stretches a LOT (up to several inches) and is also very wide when I separate my fingers. Very similar to egg white.
3. Watery: I only see this in my underwear when I’m fertile. It looks like I've "leaked" but I know it's CM. It makes wet circles just like TCOYF describes.
4. Creamy: Looks like runny hand lotion. I get this in my underwear and it forms white spots or patches in my undies and they are sometimes in the middle of watery CM in my undies.

Peak Day: Peak Day is what lets you use your mucus sign to figure out your infertile period after ovulating. Your peak day is your last day of more-fertile mucus before you start drying up. It is NOT necessarily the day with the greatest quantity or quality of mucus, just your last day before you start drying up (meaning you may still have mucus, it will just be tacky instead of EWCM). You only know your Peak Day in hindsight, for obvious reasons. The reason it's useful is that you crosscheck your thermal shift with your peak-day to make sure you're past your fertile stage so you can have unprotected sex.

Figuring out your cervix
Some women find it helpful to use their cervical position (CP) as a third sign in addition to CM and temperatures. If you do not find it helpful or your cervix does not seem to follow a pattern, don't worry about it. You don't have to use your CP and you will still be able to chart effectively.

For those who are interested in charting their CP...here's some advice for common questions:

1. I can't find my cervix!: Just like putting in a tampon for the first time, finding your cervix takes a few tries. Here are some tips:
* Your cervix is the only thing "up there" so if your fingers are touching something, congratulate yourself on finding your cervix.
* Angle is very important-Aim back at an angle for your tailbone instead of straight up and you will find it much more quickly. After charting for 7 months, I still sometimes I feel like I have to search around for it for a few seconds--but that's only when i put my fingers in at the wrong angle.
* Check it during the afternoon or evening (it may be difficult to find in the morning because lying flat while sleeping makes it higher until gravity brings it back down)
* During certain parts of your cycle it may be too high to reach so if you can't find it, try again in a few days.

2. So I've found it, now what? It will take a few cycles to learn your cervix pattern. There are three different changes a cervix undergoes (find which changes are most obvious in your cervix and disregard those that don't seem to correspond):
* Firm to Soft: A firm cervix feels like the tip of your nose, a soft cervix feels like your lips. When your cervix softens this may mean that you are fertile or soon to be fertile. Your cervix may also feel soft right after AF.
* Low to High: Around the time of ovulation the cervix gets higher and after ovulation it drops down to a lower position.
* Closed to Open: If you have not delivered a baby, then you might not be able to feel the difference between closed and open. The cervix opens slightly right around ovulation and closes very tight after ovulation.

[kemaji]

TCOYF Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation

Rule 1: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had a thermal shift 12-16 days before (this is so that you don't confuse menstruation with spotting or other non-menstrual bleeding)

Rule 2: Before Ovulation you are safe the evening of every dry day.

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day patch of fertile cervical mucus (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days-some super-swimmers for even longer. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

NFP Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation
1. 6 Day Rule: Almost all women can use this unless you have cycles 25 days or shorter (in which case you go to only CD5). It says that you can have unprotected sex the first 6 days of the cycle (CD1 starts with the 1st day of AF).
***You can use the 6-day rule right away. However, you should not go beyond it until you have a few charts to reference. Be especially careful not to take chances your first cycle off of BCP, as many women are extra-fertile in that cycle.***

2. 20 Day rule (requires at least 6-12 charts for accuracy): Take your shortest cycle and subtract 20, the answer is your last "safe day." Example: If my cycles range from 30-36 days. 30-20=10. Thus, CD10 is my last day to have unprotected sex.

3. The Doering Rule = earliest day of thermal shift -7. (Requires 6 regular(!) charts, ideally 12 charts) Using your chart history, locate the earliest day of thermal shift. Subtract 7 from the day and that is your last fertile day.
Example: If you have 32-36 day cycles and your thermal shift has been between cycle days 20-24, CD20 is your earliest day of thermal shift. 20-7 is 13. Thus, CD13 would be considered your last infertile day (Last day of Phase I in NFP book).

All the rules for determining "safe sex" times pre-O are subordinate to the Last Dry Day rule. You are still supposed to start checking CM by CD6 (according to the NFP book) while you rely on the other rules. If you get fertile CM super-early it takes precedence over everything else because sometimes our bodies do randomly ovulate earlier than normal.

4. Last Dry Day Rule (most popular rule b/c it makes the fertile window a lot shorter. BUT it also has a higher pregnancy rate than the other rules).

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day mucus patch (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

TCOYF Rules for Post-Ovulation

Rule 3: You are safe the evening of the third day your temperature is above the coverline.

Rule 4: You are safe the evening of the 4th consecutive day after your Peak day.

**Both rules have to be met to be considered 'safe,' if you're going to go by temps alone you should have 4-5 days of thermal shift (according to the NFP book)**

NFP rules for Post-Ovulation (Phase III)

Each rule involves a combination of temp rises and CM dry up. Also, these rules presuppose determining your coverline by NFP rules instead of TCOYF rules.

These rules (except the most conservative Rule C) are based on the principle that the stronger the thermal shift, the fewer days of drying up required. Conversely, the weaker the thermal shift, the more days of drying up required.

Because each woman has a different CM and temp pattern, these rules allow you to choose the one that fits YOUR pattern. (For me, I use Rule B because I dry up 2-4 days before my thermal shift and have a gradual rise)

Rule C (most conservative): The 3rd day or more of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 4 or more days of drying-up, whichever comes later.

Rule K (more emphasis on full thermal shift): The 3rd day of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 2-3 days of drying up past Peak Day.

Rule R: The 3rd day of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 consecutive days of strong thermal shift past Peak Day.

Rule B (more emphasis on the drying up): The 4th day (or more) of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 (or more) days of Overall (or Strong) Thermal Shift past Peak Day.

Definitions:
1. Full Thermal Shift: Three or more consecutive days of temps which are at least .4 degrees above your lower temp level (pre-O temps)
2. Strong Thermal Shift: Temperatures on three consecutive days are at least .2 degrees above your lower temp level and the last temp is at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level
3. Overall Thermal Shift (Gradual): Three or more temps are at least .1 degrees above the lower temp level, they are in a rising or elevated pattern, and at least one of them reaches at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level.

Temperature Only Rule ("Coming off the Pill" rule): You can safely have sex on the evening of the 5th day of thermal shift when the last three temperatures are on consecutive days and are at least .3 degrees above your pre-O temperature level.

Coverlines

How to draw a coverline according to NFP:

1. Look at the six temps that you had before your temp rise, take the highest of those temps and draw a line across your chart - this is your low temperature level (LTL). (For me, my low temp level is always 98.0. My pre-shift 6 could be 98.0, 97.7, 97.8, 98.0, 97.9, and 97.7 and then i would draw the line at 98.0). Your pre-o temps should mostly fall at or below this low temp level, though there are exceptions like high temps during AF and a pre-shift spike
2. To determine your high temp level (HTL), and thus your thermal shift, draw a line .4 degree above your low temp level (For me, my low temp level of 98.0 gives me a high temp level of 98.4)
**A gradual thermal rise is one that doesn't reach to the high temp level right away, but the temps are above your low temp level

This is how I calculate my coverline, though my NFP book refers only to low temp level and high temp level. I have no idea how FF calculates my coverline but it doesn't make sense to me because it's always really low, like this month it says its 97.7, although my low temp level is 98.0 using the method described above.

How to draw a coverline according to TCOYF

1. Identify the first day your temp rises at least two-tenths of a degree higher than it had been the previous six days.
2. Highlight the last six temps before the rise.
3. Locate the highest of those six highlighted temps.
4. Draw the coverline one-tenth of a degree above the highest of that cluster of six days preceding the rise.

[kemaji]

What to expect when charting after taking the pill

Your body may hold on to some of the hormones from the pill, so it is generally accepted that the first three cycles post-pill may be slightly wacky because of these remaining hormones. After the 3-month mark, it is assumed that these hormones are gone, and any chart wackiness that remains is au natural.

Seriously speaking, some of the things that you may see include inconsistent CM observations or observations that don't make much sense (e.g., continuous creamy CM, patches of EWCM at different parts of your cycle, mid-cycle spotting, etc.). Also, you may ovulate right on schedule; however, several women also experience short, long, or anovulatory cycles right off the pill.

If you see these things happen in your first few charts, pay them no attention. Don't think that the pill has permanently damaged you (in 99% of cases of anovulatory cycles post-pill, the pill is NOT to blame), and don't worry that you may be observing your signs incorrectly. You could be 100% correct, but your body may be giving you a pretty hard exam! If these symptoms continue after charting for a while, then you may want to talk to us, do your own research, and talk to your doctor if they concern you because they may be symptoms of other things such as PCOS, etc.

There are other things that you may notice once you're off the pill that are relatively common. Many women experience some random spotting, weight loss, heavier or longer-lasting periods; more painful cramps; increased severity of other PMS symptoms such as bloating, irritability, sore breasts; changed skin characteristics (more/less acne or natural oils), etc. However, you'll also learn more about your body and your fertility and have a much clearer idea of what is going on at every step than you ever knew before!

Also, realize that the pill really has not permanently changed your body, and the cycle characteristics that you had BEFORE the pill are most likely going to return. That's why many women experience the aforementioned symptoms (because the hormones in the pill lessened the symptoms you had before). Also, if you had irregular cycles before, they will probably come back; but this time, through charting, you will know what is going on!

If there's one thing you will learn in this thread, it is that everybody and every body is different. Try not to compare your charts too much to others, especially in the first months after the pill because those charts are not entirely reliable. Use this time as an opportunity to practice checking the fertility signs and to learn as much as you can, and then use charts 4-6 to get a strong handle on your individual signs, what they mean, and how to use them to avoid pregnancy.

[kemaji]

What to do with irregular sleeping schedules

Do you always get up at 4:00am to go to the bathroom? Does your DH wake up before you and interrupt your sleep? Is the dog full of energy and very LOUD for 1/2 hour before the alarm goes off?

Worry not! The general consensus around here is that these things are bound to happen. Yes, TCOYF recommends that you take your temperature at the exact same time every morning, before getting out of bed, after at least 3 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and under the same sleeping conditions every night. This helps you get the most accurate temperatures, and can make your chart much easier to read.

Here in the real world, we realize this isn't always possible. So, our advice is as follows:

Whatever you do, try your hardest to be consistent. Do make a big effort to temp at the same time every day, and mark your chart if you temp early or later than usual. If the goodbye kiss from your DH wakes you up 1/2 hour before your alarm does (and you temp after the alarm), just make sure he kisses you every day!

Also, do temp before getting out of bed. Most of us have noticed that our temps do NOT change that much by an emergency potty break, but it's best to get it done before you get out of bed to eliminate the risk of noise and of accidentally forgetting!

Do use a basal body thermometer, and use the same thermometer every time, even when traveling. This reduces any "noise" that you may get from thermometers with slightly different calibrations.

Mark your chart with anything out of the norm. If it was extra cold out and you used an additional blanket, note that on your chart. If your pajamas were in the wash and you slept nude, note that on your chart. Did you go out to party and went to bed super late last night? Write it down. Did you have any drinks yesterday at that party? Definitely write that down! Some of these things make a BIG difference on your chart, and you'll rest easier and we'll be better able to interpret that chart knowing what was going on.

Lastly, don't worry if you forget one temp or sleep in late once or twice. It happens, and it rarely makes your chart totally useless. But remember that the most and best info that you can get really helps avoid stress later. (And if we're talking about the different between a BFN and a BFP, the LAST thing we need is more stress!)

[kemaji]

Software analysis
based on meagle's use of each for several months

Fertility Friend
Pros
*Basic service is free and you can access it from any computer
*In recording the cervix sign, there are separate options for high/medium/low and soft/medium/firm (this can be more accurate and also help beginners who can only ascertain one of the two parts of the cervix sign)
*It is easy to override
*There are more options for other factors/symptoms – you can record alcohol use, exercise, headaches, cramps, etc.
*There is a choice for “watery” CM, which is a fertile type that is kind of creamy, kind of EW

Cons
*It is designed for women seeking pregnancy
*Only two charts can be posted at one time for those choosing the free service
*VIP service is more expensive than Ovusoft (but VIP is not necessary or recommended for TTAers)

Ovusoft
Pros
*It is for women who are avoiding or seeking pregnancy – you can set it to show when your fertile time starts (based on last dry day rule, first five day rule, your typical CM pattern, etc. – however, remember not to totally trust the software for post-O fertility/infertility!)
*You can show whether intercourse was protected or unprotected
*There are features to calculate future fertility (cycle forecasting) and best time to conceive based upon a preferred due date (delivery planner)
*The graphics are cool
*The rules the software follows are more closely linked to TCOYF, since the software was developed for this purpose
*There are reports you can print for your doctor, etc.
*All of your charts can be posted at once
*There is a pop-up box each day that details what is happening (hormonally) in your body depending upon where you are in your cycle
*There is a pop-up reminder to do a monthly breast self-exam
*You record your CM and your vaginal sensation (dry, moist, wet, lubricative)

Cons
*It costs about $40
*You have to find it on the internet on CD-ROM or download it
*The program runs from your hard drive and you “publish” your charts – if you are away from home and don’t have a laptop, there is no way to update your charts until you get back to YOUR computer with YOUR database
*The cervix sign combines both aspects, that is low=firm, medium=medium, high=soft
*It is not compatible with Macintosh/Apple
*It is more difficult to override calculations
*Your database could be wiped out (like any document on your HD) so you need to back it up frequently
*There are fewer choices for other factors affecting one’s chart – no choice for headache, cramps, etc.
*You must have Java scripts enabled to view others' web-based charts

Summary reviewWhat finally made me switch was the recent update in Ovusoft’s software which made it possible to publish protected intercourse versus unprotected intercourse, some pressure I got from ladies on the Ovusoft boards (they’re a different bunch than the WC crowd), and the fact that I’m in this charting thing for the long haul – I will be TTA for at least two more years and then I will use charting to TTC. It seemed like a worthwhile investment, especially since it was only a bit less than two months of BCP copays. Fertility Friend is a good service for sharing one’s charts with others on the thread, but it you’re enticed by cool graphics, reports, features, etc. – then you’ll get tired of it pretty quickly.
04.2004

[kemaji]

The manager for this thread is kemaji.

If you have stat changes or want to add to your stats, please use this format to the extent you wish to disclose your info:

screen name/chart link (if applicable/wanting link) Post both WC & LJ names if different
Real name: ___ (age)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: ___ (age)
Occupation: ___
Married (date of or date planned): ___
Started charting (date, if known): ___
TTC: _date_ if known

Please post updates in red so they are visible to the thread managers.

If you have previously been a member and you do not see your stats on this list just repost them in the current thread and you’ll be added again.

How to share your TTA chart with the rest of us

That is, if you don’t mind potential chart stalkers

How To Link Ovusoft Charts
From the software, go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> WebCharts Publishing Wizard

Follow instructions to set up online account (username and password), then when complete, you will see a screen that gives the location of your web charts (for if you want to put it in your signature, etc.).

Every time you update your chart (or once a day or once a week) from now on, just go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> Quickie! and it will update your web chart with the new information.

You may link your chart in your siggy, and/or ask to have it linked through your name on the roll call on page 1 of this thread.

How to upload Fertility Friend
Login to FF, you should be in "My Chart". Click on the "Sharing” button (4th button on the top). From there, click on the "Home Page/Ticker Setup" button. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, there will be a box on the right hand side that says "Available Charts". Double click on your current chart, then hit the button that says "Add Chart". Page should refresh automatically, and your chart should now be in a box on the left side (on the bottom of the page). At the top of the page, you'll see a red URL. That's the link to your home page, with your pretty chart on it. It's yours for the copying. Make sure that you click "Save Settings" if you make any changes to the settings.

Also in the home page, you can change any settings, like to publish DTD or not. If you want to let everyone see when you've made a note in your chart (where a circle becomes a square) click on the “My Settings" tab.

What do all those letters mean?

Most commonly used abbreviations in here:

Anti-grad: Is a person who was TTA and became pregnant. In the history of this group (started Fall 2002) we have never had someone become pregnant when following the rules. Every one of our antigrads can point to the rule(s) they broke when they conceived their bundles of joy and they're the first to say that charting does work!
AF: Aunt Flow, your period. Lovely monthly (or nearly monthly) visitor, at least if you are TTA.
BC: Birth Control
BD: Baby-Dancing (sex). You'll see this term in the older threads... now we use DTD since we don't wanna be making no babies in the TTA thread!!
CM: Cervical Mucus or fluid, also used for Creamy cervical mucus
CP: Cervical Position
DPO: Days Past Ovulation, or days into the luteal phase.
DTD: Doing The Deed! (sex for fun, not baby-making)
EWCM: Egg-White Cervical Mucus, the most fertile type
HPT: Home Pregnancy Test
FAM: Fertility Awareness Method, charting and using BC during the fertile period
FF: Fertility Friend (www.fertilityfriend.com), which is a free on-line charting service. You can also have VIP privileges for a fee.**
Graduate: A person who successfully TTAs and then moves on to TTC.
LP: luteal phase, or the time after ovulation. This is usually determined by the time between the beginning of your thermal shift through the arrival of your period.
NFP: Natural Family Planning, same as FAM but involves abstaining during the fertile period
O: Ovulation
pg: Pregnant
POAS: Pee On A Stick (that is, take an HPT)
TCOYF: Taking Charge of Your Fertility
TTA: Trying To Avoid (makin' babies or getting pregnant)
TTC: Trying To Conceive
UDD: Unprotected Deed-Doing. That is, sex with no other form of birth control other than FAM. A true sign of a confident TTAer! ONLY DURING THE INFERTILE TIME (unless you want to be an antigrad)

[kemaji]

Who We Are


abear (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/cde5c)
Real name: Alyssa (25)
DH's name: Paul (25)
Occupation: creative manager
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: Late 2007-2008

ADSigMel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fd5e) (melodymarie83 on WC)
Name: Melody (22)
FH's name: Ali (25)
Occupation: Law Student
Married : November 19, 2005!
Started charting March 2005
TTC: 2007

AHammer (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ahammer)
Real name: amy (23)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: michael (22)
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): july 30, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): october 4, 2005
TTC: summer of 2008

akacharlotte (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/dd10b)
Real name: Stacey(33)
BF's name: Jason (30)
Occupation: CSR
Married (date of or date planned): Not married but going ring shopping this weekend
Started charting (date, if known): 01/06
TTC: after we get married

Ani (AnilovesPeter on WC)
Name: Ani (22)
FH's name: Peter (22)
Occupation: Student
Married : Sept 2, 2006!
Started charting May 2004
TTC: unknown

Angelfish (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/ttc/index.php)
Me = 27
DH = 26
Occupation - Student
Married - November 2001
Started charting - February 2005
TTC date = Summer 2007 (?)

angelpalgt (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/105b00)
Real name: Kendra (25)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Josh (25)
Occupation: User Experience Developer/Project Liaison
Married (date of or date planned): 05/17/2003
Started charting (date, if known):12/12/2005
TTC: someday

angelraven (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/c822b)
Real name: Heather (22)
FH's name: Matt (22)
Occupation: Network Administrator (me) Programmer (him)
Married: July 31st, 2004
Started Charting: July 2005
TTC: End of 2006?

boilermaker (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/eb589)
Real name: Carrie (29)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: John (30)
Occupation: Marketing
Married (date of or date planned): 03.02.02
Started charting (date, if known): 10.02.05
TTC: next summer

candy corn (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/108b75)
Real name: Diane (26)
DH's name: TJ (25)
Occupation: cancer researcher
Married: October 22, 2005
Started charting: December 21, 2005
TTC: 2013

chinadoll (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7e2e1)
Ovusoft Chart (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=china%5Fdoll)
Name: Rachel (26)
DH: Graham (26)
occupation: part-time grad student, part-time librarian
married: October 16, 2004
started charted: December 2004
TTC: undecided

Clattercote (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/81249) (Clatter on WC)
Name: Jana (29)
DH: Andrew (30)
Occupation: Professor at a sm. liberal arts college
Married: 5/21/05
Started Charting: August 2004
TTC: Uhhh... sometime 2006

clzj (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/53585)
Real name: Lynn 31
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Charles 31
Occupation: desktop admin
Married (date of or date planned): Married 6/8/02
Started charting (date, if known): First time 4/04 Got a BFP 3/05, Second Time 12/05
TTC: Sometime 2006
Children: DS (Isaiah) 4/24/03, Angel Baby 10/26/05

daftgirraffe
Real name: Renae (18)
FH's name: Ben (30)
Occupation: whatever work is available
Wedding Date: 21st Apri 2006
Started charting (date, if known): haven't started yet
TTC: I say April 2007, FH says Jan 2008....we'll see.

dana92504 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/DanaFFChart)
Real name: Dana (24)
DH: Chad (25)
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
Married: 9.25.04
Started charting: August 2005
TTC: probably nevah!

dpangel33 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1177de)
Name: Danea - 22
DH's name: Patrick - 25
Occupation: Admin Asst / Student again in Fall '06
Married : Oct 16, 2005
Started charting: Jan 2006
TTC: 2010

EmilyBronte (also EmilyBronte on LJ)
Age: 29
DH: 37
DS: JFK, born 1/5/05
Occupation: SAHM for now
Married: June 12, 2004
Started charting: Feb 2004 with break for TTC and baby, began again March 2005
TTC: Sometime in 2006

eagleswings (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/44e46)
Name: Erin (21)
DH name: Luke (20)
Married on: June 5, 2005
Charting since: February, 2004
TTC: summer 2006 at the earliest, probably 2007 or later

EmilyZA
Real name: Emily (27)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Dan (27)
Occupation: Marketing Support Rep
Married (date of or date planned): Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Possibly ASAP
TTC: Possibly Fall of 2006, we're waiting to buy a house
Children: Just a furbaby-- Vinny, our chocolate lab

FEIrider (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a14d2) (horsinaround on WC)
real name: Erin (25)
DH (28)
Occupation: Engineer by day/ Horse Trainer by night
Married: 10/12/02
Started charting: 4/05
TTC: 2007ish

Fluffy Bunny (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/22ea0) (Begunda on WC)
Name: Linda (28)
DH: Dave (31)
Occupation: chemistry grad student
Married: December 28, 2002
Started charting: April 2003
TTC: someday

fsb2005 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41)

FSUSammy
Real name: Sam 26
DH's name: Gary 29
Occupation: Programmer
Married: Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Will start 12/05
TTC: ???

gantry_g (36)
DH: mr. g (37)
Married: 10/04
Occupation: Librarian
Started Charting : 7/05
TTC: summer 2006

granada (umwhee on WC) (29)
DH: DH (34)
Married: August 2004
Started charting: January 2005
TTC: ???

Harmony96 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/d1b58)
Name - Andrea (27)
DH name - Tim (24)
Occupation - waitressing
Married - April 17, 2004
Off pill and charting as of - August, 2005
TTC - January 2006

HisSpicy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/e2063)
Real name: Natalie (20)
FH's name: Rodney (22)
Occupation: Student
FH's Occupation: Student and Auto Detailer
Married: date not set
Started charting: 9/4/05
TTC: Long time from now!

honeygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424)
Ovusoft (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl)
Real name: Anne (late 20's)
DH: Honeyboy (jk, I don't post his name) (also late 20's)
Occupation:Social Worker
Married: Dec 03
Started charting: August 05
TTC:May 2006

jude29
Me: 28
DH: 30
Occupation: HR Generalist
Married: June 4, 2005
Started charting: February 2005
TTC: Late 2006/early 2007

Karner01 (Karner01/http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/cb1b8)
Me: Karen Age 27
Started charting July 05
TTC: ??

katiej (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=knadikj)
Real name: Katie (23)
DH: Pedro (20)
Occupation: teacher
Married: 22 December 2005
Started charting: 11 September 2005
TTC: hmm...whenever insurance covers it...!

kemaji (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=kemaji) (mutt189 on WC)
Name: M (28)
DH's name: B (31)
Occupation: Marketing
Married: July 3, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): September 2004
TTC: 2007?

Kinetic
Me: Kristina (26)
DH's name: Gary (28)
Occupation: Almost a licensed Architect
Married: May 14, 2005
Started charting: I'm starting this week!
TTC: late 2006?

kissmary (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/112767)
Real name: Mary (26)
DH's name: John (28)
Occupation: Librarian
Married : June 26, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: ??

KRL626
Real name: Kate (27)
DH's name: Ricardo (27)
Occupation: Teacher
Married 6/26/04
Started Charting: Nov. 04
TTC: Aug/Sept. 07

ktina0803
Real name: Kristina(25)
DH's name: Cory (25)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 08/09/03
Started charting: 11/17/05
TTC: not for a long time

ladybug1196 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=ladybug1196)
Real name: Lesley(23)
DH's name: Mike (24)
DD: Lily Janette, 5/9/05
Occupation: SAHM
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 11/28/05
TTC: not really sure...maybe late 2007, early 2008

Leilynne
Name: Leilynne (23)
DH: Jon
Occupation: Dietary Aide
Married: May 12 2001
Started charting : March 1, 2004
TTC Date: Never

LeslieandPaul (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/977c7)
me: Leslie, 22, receptionist
FH: Paul, 28, technologist
married: August 20, 2005
started charting: March 2005
TTC: unknown

LIZNKEITH (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/30d9c)
Name: Liz (26)
DH: Keith (34)
DD: Caroline, June 15, 2005
Occupation: Claims Assistant
Married: July 28, 2001
Started charting: April 2003
TTC #2: June 2007 or 2008

LondonMo
Real name: Monique (26)
DH's name: Murray (30)
Occupation: project planner
Married : 28 May 2005
Started charting (date, if known): haven't started yet
TTC: not for a long time - 5 years +

[kemaji]

Who we are, continued

mamacita (27)
DH: 25
Kids: 2 dds born August '01 and April '05
Started charting: March 2003
TTC: I think we're done.

mandersald (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/98b9d)
name: Mandy (25)
DH: Scott (25)
occupation: PhD grad student (acoustics)
married: 8-27-04
started charting: 4-05
TTC: who knows, 2007?

meagle (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=martese)
Me = 28
DH = 29
Occupation - Non-profit/manager
Married - May 2000
Started charting - July 2003
TTC date = Late 2006 or early 2007

mmeblue (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/3c7a1)
Real name: Amanda (24)
DH: Derek (26)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: 12/21/02
Started charting: January 2004
TTC: eventually (undecided)

Mom2Cole (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/cdbc9)
Real name: Moni (30)
DH's name: Randy (37)
Occupation: SAHM
Married: 9/21/2002
DS: Cole~2/20/2004
Started charting: July, 2005
TTC: August, 2006

motray36
Real name: Tracy (25)
Married: June, 2004
Started charting: Oct, 2004
TTC: July 2006

MrsHill (http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill) (32)
DH: B (41)
Occupation: SAHW
Married: 9/24/05
Started charting: 11/2005
TTC: June-ish 2006

nonewnames (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7cb4b)
Real name: Becca (26)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Sean (25)
Occupation: lowly grad student
Married (date of or date planned): 7/24/04
Started charting (date, if known): 12/2004, with a 5 month hiatus 4/05-9/05
TTC: 7/2006

orchidrose
Me: 31
DH: 28
My occupation: Teacher
Married: 2003
Started Charting: June 2005
TTC: Around July/August 2006

Pookie
Me: 27
DH: 27
Married: 5/25/02
Charting: 12/02 until 7/04
DS: Ryan 3/15/05
TTC: not sure if there will be a #2, but if there is probably when DS turns 2

raven077
Real name: Karen (28)
DH's name: Kyle (29)
Occupation: Graphic Designer
Married: October 29, 2005
Started charting: (mid) March 2006
TTC: end of 2006 or early 2007

Reenie (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1002c9) (autumnbride1113 on WC)
Real name: Reenie, 24
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Eric, 25
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): November 13, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): December 2005
TTC: Summer of 2007 or later...

RobynScott
Real name: Robyn (29)
DH's name: Scott (31)
Occupation: Attorney
Married: August 29, 2004
Started charting (date): January 2006
TTC: Spring 2006

ryansgirl
Me: 24
FH: 28
Occupation: theater/talent mgmt
Will Marry: October 6th, 2006
Off bcp since: never really on it
Started charting: Feb 2006
TTC: 2008

sdauer21 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6adf9) (spedtchr on LJ)
Real name: Sonya (32)
DH's: Will (31)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 31, 2002
DD's: Tallia (1/14/03), Abigail (7/26/05)
Started charting: November 2005 (charted from Aug - Nov. '04, too)
TTC: Earliest would be August '06, if I can talk DH into a third!

sheartm7
Real name: Emily (24)
BF's name: Jeff (24)
Occupation: Admin Assistant
Married (date of or date planned): NA
Started charting (date, if known): March 2004
TTC: not for a long time!

Smittenk (Smittnkitten on WC)
Real name:Alison 28
DH's/FH's/BF's name:Mike 36
Occupation: not working at the moment
Married: April 03 2004
Start charting: 14 October 2005
TTC: Don't know

southerner (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2)
Name: 30 (in January)
DH: 31
Married:August 2003
Started Charting: January 2006
TTC: Spring/Summer 2006

SQ2 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=bgum78)
Real name: Rachel (27)
DH's age: 27
Married: 8/15/04
Started charting: 11/23/05
TTC: September 2006

stephie61706 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11ed58)
Real name: Stephanie (24)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jason (25)
Occupation: Athletic Trainer
Married (date of or date planned): Planned June 17 2006
Started charting (date, if known): Feb. 2006
TTC: 2008 or 2009

stevesbabygirl (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.a...stevesbabygirl)
Real name: Heather, 26
DH's name: Steve, 28
Occupation: Surgical technologist
Married (date of or date planned): 8/31/03
Started charting (date, if known): Around 2/23/06
TTC: Maybe 2006

strwbrygirl (haskalah7 on LJ)
Age: 27
DH's age: 27
Occupation: Customer Support Mgr
Married: June 22, 2002
Started charting: May 2005
TTC: undecided

suzfuzsunflower (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/90828)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 9, 2003
Started Charting: April, 2004
TTC: When my body adjusts to being off bcp. Current cycle is day 85.

tashaw6
Real name: Natasha (27)
DH's name: Neil (26)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 25th September 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 20 February 2006
TTC: 2007

tippy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/48927) (tippyanddennis on WC)
Real Name: Tiffany (25)
DH: Dennis (24)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: June 26, 2004
Started Charting: March 30, 2004
TTC: 2010ish

tlew12778 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7381b)
Real name: Tiffany (27)
FH's name: Carlo (31)
Occupation: Financial Analyst (me), MD (him)
Married (date of or date planned): April 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): October 2004
TTC: 2007?

Wagsgirl
Me: Tonya (29)
DH: Ryan (29)
Occupation: SAHM
Wedding date: 11/10/01
Children: Briley 10/28/02 Greydon 2/18/05
Charting: charted to conceive DS 12/03-6/04, none since
TTC: Octoberish 2006

wonderpup262
Carrie: 30
DH: 30
Occupation: full time product manager, part time MBA student
Married: Oct. 03
Started charting: Jan. 06
TTC: We should wait til 2008... but can we hold out that long?

[kemaji]

When we're moving on to TTC by Year


2006
angelraven
boilermaker
Clattercote
clzj
EmilyBronte
EmilyZA
gantry_g
Harmony96
honeygirl
Kinetic
Mom2Cole
motray36
MrsHill
nonewnames
orchidrose
RobynScott
sdauer21
southerner
SQ2
stevesbabygirl
Wagsgirl

2006 - 2007
eagleswings
jude29
meagle
raven077

2007
ADSigMel
Angelfish
FEIrider
Graffy
kemaji
KRL626
mandersald
Pookie
Reenie
tashaw6
tlew12778

2007 - 2008
abear
daftgirraffe
ladybug1196
LIZNKEITH

2008
AHammer
ryansgirl
wonderpup262

2008 - 2009
stephie61706

2010
dpangel33
tippy

2013
candy corn

Someday/Undecided
Ani
Angelpalgt
chinadoll
Fluffy Bunny
FSUSammy
granada
HisSpicy
karner01
katiej
kissmary
ktina0803
Leigh0918
LeslieandPaul
LondonMo
mmeblue
sheartm7
Smittenk
strwbrygirl
suzfuzsunflower

No more for me/Don't want children
dana92504
Leilynne
mamacita

Moved on to TTC/SWH
Mystikal (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/RaeK622) ~ May 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due June 27, 2006
flygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/flygirl) ~ June 2005
polkadot (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/b9a0d) ~ July 2005
heather 8^) ~ July 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due July 2006
cat_loverpq (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/da20b) ~ August 2005
Leigh0918 ~ August 2005
Sabriel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4431c) ~ August 2005 ~Pregnant! Due August 2006
Sevilla (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/1b18e) (rae_anna46 on LJ) ~ Pregnant! Due April 2, 2006
pickle ~ August 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
ABirney (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrsabirney) ~ September 2005
ajlanden (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/2fdee) (ShyAnn on WC) ~ October 2005 - Pregnant! Due August 2006
Aletheia (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a0c60) ~ November 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due September 2006
quartercentury (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/3313f) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
lawgirl4 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a6770) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
M&M614 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/df46b) ~ December 2005
giry76 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/781ab) ~ December 2005
berry ~ December 2005
MrsKinnison (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/89c6c) ~ December 2005
BethIrish ~ December 2005
bijouparvin ~ January 2006
lege (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=lege) ~ January 2006
Kanga1622 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/28596) ~ February 2006

Anti-grads
Graffy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fab4) ~ Pregnant! Due June 2006

[kemaji]

Charting-to-Avoid Volume 2 is now open!

As a first order of business, please check in and check your stats so we can maintain a current roster. If there are any changes, please update them and post in red.

Thanks!

[lawgirl4]

yippee! thanks for creating the new thread.

my cycle is totally bizarre this month. later O than usual, and super-early spotting - like CD 7. On the flip side, I am definitely seeing a clear pre/post-O temp shift - yay for that, since TTC is now less than 2 months away (wow!).

[clzj]

clzj
Real name: Lynn 31
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Charles 31
Occupation: desktop admin
Married (date of or date planned): Married 6/8/02
Started charting (date, if known): First time 4/04 Got a BFP 3/05, Second Time 12/05
TTC: Sometime 2006
Children: DS (Isaiah) 4/24/03, Angel Baby 10/26/05


How do you start after a pg

[Clattercote]

clzj - If you've never charted before, I'd recommend taking a class on charting, because identifying fertile and infertile phases is doubly tough after pg. ETA: Oops, I just now noticed in your stats that you have charted before - sorry. But a refresher course might be helpful... Your hormones are trying to regulate out, and all sorts of things can throw off interp. If you're bfing exclusively and haven't had AF yet, and you are under 12 mo pp, you can generally assume that pg is very unlikely (between 1 and 6 percent chance of Oing before your first pp period, depending on which book you read). After first AF, begin temping and checking CM - though expect that your temps will not necessarily show a pattern for a while (they might, they might not), expect that your most fertile CM may have a different quality than it did before pg, and expect that your LPs will be shorter than normal for a couple of cycles. The biggest thing is to check CM - at first sign of CM assume you're in your fertile phase, and use protection or abstain; also begin temping at this point.

The Art of NFP is most helpful for sample pp charts - and it's got several chapters on charting pp.

PSA from a friend of mine who's been charting postpartum for 2 years - don't worry about not getting consecutive 3 hrs of sleep when you're temping pp - the point is that you have overall consistency in temping and that you can see a temp pattern. So, if your common practice is that you wake up 3 times per night, most nights, go ahead and temp - that is a consistent pattern of sleep. I say, go ahead and temp anyway, record the temps, and discard whatever is out of range.

[Harmony96]

Yay a new thread. :D I have a small change to my info. My occupation is now waitressing.
Thanks :)

Andrea

[Clattercote]

tlew - In all the hubbub of changing threads, I forgot to ask: what is this Fertility Friend that you're taking? I'm intrigued...

[angelraven]

I'm done with school and have a job so I can update my occupation. YIPPEE!!!

Occupation: Network Administrator (me) Programmer (him)


Thanks for getting the new thread up and running kemaji!

For those of you who have been following along with my wacked out business, I took a test and barely got ANY lines so I think I got a defective test. I'm going to wait a week or so and do it again. I do have some creamy CM today! That's an improvement!

[Janey]

Kemaji - thanks for the new thread! :)

AF came late last night so I am counting today as CD1 and I temped this morning. I've decided to enter the #'s into both FF and Ovusoft until my 2-week Ovusoft trial is up to see if I want to go ahead and spend the $40 on it. That Chinadoll uses it and it helps adjust her sleep patterns may make it pretty useful to me as well. I was up at 3, 4, and 5:30. B leaves the house at 7am so we decided to use that as a Temp Time. This morning he slept in, however... so I temped when he got up, which was at 7:17 AM.

Also ... I dreamed about charting last night. :o

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Welcome clzj!

[sdauer21]

clzj First, I wanted to say how very sorry I am for your loss! I see that you have an angel baby, and I thought you mentioned that you had gone full term? You are in my thoughts, as you must be going through a very difficult time right now!

As for charting after pregnancy...I'm certainally no expert, so take this with many grains of salt. I assume you are probably still experiencing some bleeding from your delivery. I think it probably makes the most sense to start temping anytime, and just indicate bleeding patterns, as you would in a normal cycle. Following both of my deliveries, as well as my m/c, it took a few weeks for my body to get back on track. I see that you have a little one with you, as well, so you have done the post partum stuff already. With my first daughter, my body jumped right back into normal cycles about 6 weeks after delivery, and that was even though I was breastfeeding. With my m/c, it took one full cycle before my body was back into a normal routine, and that was when I started charting. I counted the day of my m/c as the first day of my cycle. That is probably somewhat different, though, as I was only about 11 weeks, at that loss, and not full term.

Big {{hugs}} to you!! I am so sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry I can't be better help with your charting questions! :(

[MrsKinnison]

Wow, how time flies. I can't believe we are on a new thread already. Welcome to all the newbies!!! I am 9DPO on Cycle 11, and have been trying the green tea thing for CM but so far have only seen a difference in infertile CM....now I'm trying carrots too.

[motray36]

Thanks for the new thread! Welcome to all the new people :D

[granada]

Thanks kemaji for being threadmistress! :D I'm going to be a 1-year charter soon!

[tlew12778]

tlew - In all the hubbub of changing threads, I forgot to ask: what is this Fertility Friend that you're taking? I'm intrigued...
Did I write Fertility Friend? I meant Fertility BLEND (http://www.fertilityblend.com/).

[Tonysweetie]

Afternoon ladies> Sorry I haven't been in forever. I was in a car accident on Wednesday and just haven't felt like doing much so I'm sure my charting is wacked right now. Today is 6DPO and had some spotting and a temp. rise this morning but who knows what all that means. Just waiting for 14DPO and AF to arrive. Yippie, lol NOT! haha. I'm so glad it's Friday. Anyways on my car accident. I'm okay just bruised and sore. My car was a trash so DH and I are looking into new ones. Boy am I glad now I didn't end up pregnant this past cycle b/c I don't even want to imagine what would've happened being that early along. Anyways just glad everything is okay. I'm outta work til' Monday and DH stayed with me the past 2 days and tonight my MOm is taking me to the mall ot get me outta the house. Have a great Friday girls. God Bless!!!

[FSUSammy]

Hey everyone I'm new to the board. I found this site thanks to Sevilla's bio on thenest. I've decided to go off of BCPs because I'm tired of the way they make me feel. I went off of Yasmin in July of this year because of my low sex drive and now am on Estrostep but that has caused major migraines which I can't stand. Also, my sex drive hasn't gotten any better. So tonight after work I'm running out to go pick up TCOYF as well as a Basal Thermometer. I have two more weeks on the pill, the second week being the sugar pills. I'm looking foward to getting some great advice from you ladies.

-Sam

FSUSammy
Real name: Sam 26
DH's name: Gary 29
Occupation: Programmer
Married: Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Will start 12/05
TTC: ???

[clzj]

Clattercote-I have charted before. This time I am charting after a still birth. I am not breastfeeding because of the loss.

sdauer21-thanks for the tipes. I am still in the pp bleeding. 3 weeks since the still birth.

[kemaji]

clzj -- I'm so sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine how difficult it must be.

FSUSammy -- Welcome!

Updated to here.

As part of the housekeeping, I was going through our stats and noticed that Gia and giry76 both were planning on TTC starting in 2005. Since we are almost to the end of the year, does anyone know if that has changed?

[Tonysweetie]

clzj: So sorry for your loss. God Bless!!!


I tell you what ladies this just has not been my week, but it could be worse. First I'm in a car accident on Wednesday and now I think I have a UTI! UGh! I'm going to the doc. in the morning. I'm having trouble urinating b/c it burns, I feel like I have to go constantly, and I'm bleeding when I use the restroom and I'm just downright uncomfterbale. Mom took me to get some cranberry juice until I can get to the doc. in the morning. I have no car so DH has to cancel is flight lesson (he's takin flying lessons on sat mornings) to take me to the doctor to get some antibotics. Sheesh! I've never had a UTI before but from what I've read that is what it sounds like. Scary though! Yikes! :eek: The cranberry juice is helping but I'm going against my diet by drinking it. That stuff is loaded up with sugar and carbs! GoodNess. Anyways I'll try to update after I see a doc. tomorrow. Have a great night. God Bless!!!

[tlew12778]

Yup, sounds like a UTI to me. You can also drink lots of water instead of the cranberry juice. To get the full effect of cranberry juice you should find the natural stuff (no sugar added) in health food stores but it tastes GROSS. You can buy the pills though. But just drink tons of water. You need to flush out your system.

[kemaji]

I've gotten a UTI once or twice and I get the 100% juice (no sugar added) and mix 1 part juice, 2 parts water. That makes the sourness bearable.

[Tonysweetie]

Yea I've been drinking my juice in water like crazy and it's defintly helping the discomfort. I'm seeing a doctor later today. What will they do to me? I don't have to get a pap done do I? DH is taking me around 1.

[jesseybell]

I am so sorry for you :( I have had a bunch of them and they are just horrible!! You will just need to pee in a cup, but I've gotten to the point where I can call up my doctor and get the medication.
They will give you antibiotics. If they don't also give you another medication, you get get it at CVS or the such - it is called Uristat (there are some other brands too) It turns you pee bright orange but it helps with the discomfort until the antibiotics can kick in. I can't live without this medication when I've had UTIs.

[Clattercote]

clzj - I am sorry for your loss, too. I must have missed that in the original post and I apologise.

[Clattercote]

tonysweetie - It's been the week for UTIs, then - I had one on Sunday and was dealing with the loveliness of that earlier this week - my advice is to drink LOTS of water (like, just keep going for glass after glass) and straight (no sugar, no applejuice, no honey - that helps the little beasties) cranberry juice. I mix my cran juice with seltzer water to make it palatable. The doc will give you antibiotics... you should feel much better in 24 hours.

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks ladies I'm waiting for Mom to get here to take me. I've been drinking cran like it's going outta style, lol. I'll update when I get back. God Bless!!!

[tlew12778]

The other thing they might do is take a rectal and oral temp. I've only had that done here in Italy, but it's one of the indications aside from the PIAC test. Apparently when you have a UTI your rectal temp is higher than your oral one.

[Tonysweetie]

Well went to the doctor. and they found nothing wrong. They did a pregnancy test and a UTI test and both were negative. They gave me a precrition anyways though. They were concerned about the blood in my urine but didn't say much. They want a followup in a week if I don't feel better. I only got 3 tablets in my antibotic. I just hope this goes away. Ugh! I'll keep posted.

[meagle]

clzj - Muchos {{{{HUGS}}}}. I'm very sorry about your loss.

Tonysweetie - Hope that you get relief from your UTI symptoms soon. Sorry about your car accident, too.

[SQ2]

Hi, ladies! http://www.kenandkeli.com/images/smilies/hiya.gif

I figured a new thread would be a good time to join. I've been lurking for a little while. I'm going off the pill at the end of this cycle so I'll start charting when I get my period next week. :D Have read part of TCOYF (the important parts anyways) and am thoroughly enjoying the book. Can't wait to read more. Feeling a little nervous about starting this charting thing and am not sure I'll do it right at the beginning but practice makes perfect, right? Plus I know my cycles will probably be weird for awhile having been on the pill for 7 years. We are planning to TTC next fall and I really wanted to rid my body of the hormones for awhile before we try. I'm excited to see how my body reacts to being off the pill and just intrigued by everything I'm learning in TCOYF. I'm also hoping my sex drive returns, which is another reason for going off the pill now, but I know it doesn't happen for everyone so I'm not getting my hopes up too high. Here's my info:

SQ2
Real name: Rachel (27)
DH's age: 27
Married: 8/15/04
Started charting: 11/23/05
TTC: September 2006

Question: I'm still trying to decide which site to use for charting. (And I know I asked about this in the last thread but I'm still confused so please bear with me.) I don't plan to purchase any of the software and would like a charting system I can access from any computer. Now I *think* that means I need to use Fertility Friend, right? I'm remembering that Ovusoft you can't access from anywhere? The reason I'm confused is that some of you do have Ovusoft charts online so I would think you could access those from anywhere. I like the graphics on Ovusoft and the fact that it's the companion to TCOYF. Also, I'm still a little put off by the fact that Fertility Friend strongly emphasises that it is not a site for people TTA pregnancy. (And I know that you don't rely on the charts completely to determine when you are fertile.) But, on the other hand most of you seem to be using Fertility Friend so there must be some benefit to it over Ovusoft.

:confused:

Can anyone help me out? Which should I use? Do any of you just use online charts or does everyone get the software? Does anyone use old fashioned paper and pencil?

Thanks so much! I'm really excited to be joining this group and can't wait to learn more from everyone here.

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- Welcome! Fertility Friend is the free program that you can access from anywhere. Ovusoft is installed on one computer and you can upload your chart to the Internet so anyone can view it, but you can only make changes from the computer your software is installed upon.

I use Ovusoft because I liked how it was made to be a companion to TCOYF as well as I thought the graphics were better. I do find it an inconvenience sometimes that I can't update it from just anywhere, but usually that means I'm travelling and I don't usually temp across time zones (my family is on the west coast, I'm on the east coast).

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[motray36]

Hi everyone!

FSUSammy and SQ2- Welcome!

Tonysweety - Im very prone to UTI's, so I feel your pain! As some people have said...regular cranberry juice is worse for you than if you did nothing at all. The negative effects of the sugar completely outway the benefits of the cranberry. So, go completely health-store natural or use the tablets.

FSUSammy- I used paper charts for about 10 cycles, then switched to FF so I could share them online easily. FF is free, I like to be able to access it from anywhere, and the "for TTC only" thing doesnt seem to matter at all.

CD10 for me...nothing interesting!

[meagle]

SQ2 - Welcome to the thread! I use Ovusoft for the very reasons you cited. I like the graphics and I like that I can access it on my laptop. Even though I can't always 'publish' my chart to share with others when I'm traveling if I can't get internet access, I can still update it daily. Even though you can access Fertility Friend virtually anywhere, I'm paranoid and didn't always like to access it from other people's computers because it showed up in their web history. I had used paper charting along with software for about my first 15 or so charts but now only use Ovusoft - my temps are much lower than most charts go so it's just cleaner for me to use software than to have to white out the temps and put my 96's in. I think the primary benefit for most using Fertility Friend is that it is free and I think that's why so many ladies in this thread use it. On the other hand, the one-time Ovusoft fee is about the cost of a copay for a pack of BCP. Ovusoft used to offer a free trial - you may want to check that out and decide by using it whether it's worth the investment or not. HTH!

ETA: The straw that broke the camel's back for me was spending some time on the Ovusoft boards - one lady on the TTA boards made me (and others) feel kinda guilty and I just crumbled. :rolleyes:

[Tonysweetie]

Hey girls. Well I would hit the healthfood store but there not open today. So I've been drinking OceanSpray Cranberry. I'm feeling MUCH better today. I took my 2nd antibotic, 1 more tomorrow. But every now and then I see a tad bit of blood but not nearly as much as before. So things are looking up...hopefully! Thanks for all the advice! This sucks, lol

[SQ2]

kemaji Thanks for the info! :) I'm from the west coast too and live in the midwest. DH is from the east coast so we do lotsa traveling, especially around the holidays. So, you don't chart when you're traveling? How does that work with respect to TTA pregnancy? I imagine I could do paper charting when I'm traveling and then input the info into Ovusoft when I get home? I got a free trial disc with my TCOYF book so I'm going to give it a try I think.

meagle Yikes, I didn't even think about FF showing up in the internet history (i.e. at work! :eek: ) I don't bring my laptop with me all the time when traveling but I'd imagine I can just do paper charting in when away from home. Thanks for the info! :D

motray36 Thanks, I'm excited to be here. :D

[Quartercentury]

Yeah for the new thread!!! Although, sniff sniff, I won't be around very long... I am leaving for Asia and our TTC adventure in 17 days!!! Although, I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on this cycle. Hopefully I will be back to normal by next month!

SQ2 is that avatar from The Man in the Moon?

[tlew12778]

FWIW, I chart while I travel. I take my temp at the normal time (8AM in whatever time zone I am in) and I just make a note of it on my chart. It doesn't usually affect my temps unless I haven't slept in 24 hours (in which case I don't temp that day obviously).

My chart is driving me nuts this month. So much watery CM! And I even had a temp spike that I swore was O due to sore BBs and CM, but no, it dropped back down today. Grrrr. This is really sucky from the UDD standpoint... late O with early fertile CM. :mad:

[SQ2]

SQ2 is that avatar from The Man in the Moon? Yup! Probably my favorite Reese movie (and her first too).

[dana92504]

woohoo i can start from the beginning of a thread! :D ....my stats are still the same

clzj - i'm sooooo sorry for your loss (((HUGS))) :(

tonysweetie - glad to hear you're ok from your accident! AND a UTI?!?! man, sounds like you had a craptastic weekend :p . hope you're feeling better!

welcome SQ!

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- Now that I've been chartying for more than a year, my cycles are fairly predictible in as much as I know when my O will be within a couple days. As long as any travel is before or after O, it doesn't affect it much. If I'm travelling during O, we're just extra careful that particular month.

My temps seem to be affected when I travel over 3 time zones for some reason. Perhaps it is because I temp so early in the morning (5:30am) or perhaps it is something else. But I've found that it us just easier to not temp for short trips because the jet lag makes a difference. So, I'll temp for a 2 week trip because I get adjusted, but not for a 3 day trip.

[lawgirl4]

important question!

I am so unclear on when to mark the 1st day of AF. How do you all discern between "spotting" and "light AF"? The first day you have a heavier flow? The first day you have redder blood? I have had an extremely light AF for the past 3 days and I am just not convinced that I have reached my "start" day yet... Is there a set rule for this?

[Janey]

kemaji, I have a chart now, to link up with my stats:

http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill

I slept in until 8:30 today & Ovusoft 'fixed' my temperature because of it... so now I have 3 days at the same temp. (Forgive the newbie in awe of everything) I think I'm going to go ahead and buy the Ovusoft... it seems worth it. Also I had to email tech support on Saturday afternoon with an installation problem, and she wrote me back at 8:30 on a Saturday night!

[kemaji]

lawgirl - For myself, whenever I have to use anything heavier than a panty liner and it is red (not just brown), I count it as AF.

Updated to here.

[Clattercote]

lawgirl - I do what kemaji does - any time the flow is heavy enough for a pad, and is bright red.

quartercentury - We'll miss you! I'm so excited to hear about your trip though!

Charting while travelling - I do keep charting when I travel but I often throw up my hands in despair. :rolleyes: Travel over even one time zone throws my body off and makes my Os 4-5 days later. (I think it's trying to tell me it doesn't like airplanes!) My body also, when travelling, likes to manufacture waaaaay more fertile CM than is possible necessary. Travel over two time zones or more throws my temps way off so I can't use them because there's no pattern (even if I'm staying in one place for a week or so). If it's not right around O I don't worry too much - if it's around O I use CM only rules and, sometimes, OPKs, depending on how out of whack my CM is. I've got a really fussy body - and it's annoying because I actually LOVE to travel!

[kanga1622]

Just stopping by to subscribe to the new thread. I don't have time to catch up today, maybe tomorrow. AF is expected on Thanksgiving or on Friday for me so I'm pretty bummed. I hate traveling with AF. :(

[SQ2]

AF is expected on Thanksgiving or on Friday for me so I'm pretty bummed. I hate traveling with AF Right there with ya, Kanga. AF is coming on Wednesday for me, right when we leave for a looong drive. But, this is my last week of BCPs so I'm really curious to see what happens with AF (and my body in general) when I come off the pill. I'm expecting AF to get longer. Ya'll will probably hate me for this but my period only lasts 4 days with really only a day or 2 of "heavy" bleeding. I say "heavy" because I think (from what my sister has told me) it's not really that heavy at all. I know the pill can do that and I'm actually weirdly looking forward to getting my real period back.

[honeygirl]

Right there with ya, Kanga. AF is coming on Wednesday for me, right when we leave for a looong drive. But, this is my last week of BCPs so I'm really curious to see what happens with AF (and my body in general) when I come off the pill. I'm expecting AF to get longer. Ya'll will probably hate me for this but my period only lasts 4 days with really only a day or 2 of "heavy" bleeding. I say "heavy" because I think (from what my sister has told me) it's not really that heavy at all. I know the pill can do that and I'm actually weirdly looking forward to getting my real period back.

I had the same type of period while on the pill. Pretty light and quick. Now that I'm off the pill (4th month off) my periods have been even lighter (I only need liners, not big pads or tampons) but LONG. My last cycle had 6 days of spotting and 7 days of AF. Yuck. I'd rather have heavy and short.

[kemaji]

Right there with ya, Kanga. AF is coming on Wednesday for me, right when we leave for a looong drive. But, this is my last week of BCPs so I'm really curious to see what happens with AF (and my body in general) when I come off the pill. I'm expecting AF to get longer. Ya'll will probably hate me for this but my period only lasts 4 days with really only a day or 2 of "heavy" bleeding. I say "heavy" because I think (from what my sister has told me) it's not really that heavy at all. I know the pill can do that and I'm actually weirdly looking forward to getting my real period back.

Be prepared for anything, especially if you have been on BCP for a long time. I was only on it for about 2.5 years (off and on) and before I started, my periods were 5 - 6 days of heavy to medium flow. While on BCP, they were 4 days of light flow. Now that I have been off for over a year, they are still 4 days and until the last 2 - 3, hadn't really increased in quantity. These last couple, I still have 4 days, 3 of which are heavy. Basically, anything goes.

[Tonysweetie]

When I went off BCP back in July I had pretty normal periods. They came like they used too before starting them. 5-6 days of medium flow then light at the end. Same thing happened when I stoped them. They have just been a little irregular though.

[kissmary]

I just wanted to say that I like this thread! I haven't had any questions or problems, but I like checking in. It's cycle day 9 for me with nothing unusual to report. :)

[angelraven]

Just popping in here to give an update of sorts. It's CD37 today. My temps are still running high. I had some CM a couple days ago, now today I have some brownish spotting. I'm starting to wonder if I'm not perhaps in the midst of an annovulatory cycle.

[sdauer21]

So a random question to show my total niavety with charting :o Is it possible to have O'd really early this cycle, like CD 8 or 9? And is it possible to O without having EWCM? This is my first cycle off BCP, which I was only on for 2 months following the birth of my DD. I'm still BF almost exclusively, so I'm guessing things are just weird right now, and that AF may have gone away for a while. But there's that little tiny voice in the back of my head, giving me doubts. :)

[Aletheia]

Hi all! Kemaji reminded me to come by to officially graduate myself from the TTA thread. I'm moving on, so wish me luck!

Good luck with the charting, ladies! I sure hope my charting knowledge pays off in a quick and easy BFP.

[clzj]

Help. I have several questions for you all.

1) When do you start to chart after having a child/stillbirth? No breastfeeding here.
2) I have my thermeter from before but don't know how to start this time.


Any advice is helpful.

[lawgirl4]

honeygirl -
"Now that I'm off the pill (4th month off) my periods have been even lighter (I only need liners, not big pads or tampons) but LONG. My last cycle had 6 days of spotting and 7 days of AF. Yuck. I'd rather have heavy and short."

I've pretty much been like that too. though I do tend to have slightly shorter days of spotting and AF, and 1 or 2 days of a legitimately "heavy" AF.

[tlew12778]

Re: Post BCP AF - Mine went back to 5 days. It was down to 3 days on the BCP. I have about 1 day of heavy flow, 1 of medium and 3 of light (liner type light) or spotting.

angelraven - Do you have a chart link?

sdauer21 - Technically yes... I don't get EWCM every month. I am rather sure that with PP cycles, anything goes. This is FF's blurb on charting while breastfeeding (http://fertilityfriend.com/Faqs/Fertility_charting_while_breastfeeding.html). Basically it says that your temps may be erratic so to look for fertile CM.

Aletheia - CONGRATULATIONS! GL with that BFP!

clzj - I would say to either start now and just call your first day CD1 then when AF comes, discard the cycle when you are calculating your stats OR wait until AF comes to start. There is no disadvantage to starting now IMO. At least you would have an idea of what is going on with your body rather than being in the dark and getting a surprise visit from AF.

I am wondering if I have a staircase rise this month. I have never had that before... we're still playing it safe for a few days anyway since there is no clear O yet.

[Clattercote]

sdauer - Since the temps are staying low now, I'd say that O on CD 8-9 is quite unlikely. I suppose it is possible, but I think the high spikes you saw are your body's natural fluctuations, especially with bfing thrown in there as well. Keep an eye out for fertile quality CM, and keep in mind that your most fertile quality may look different pp than it did before.

clzj - I would go ahead and start charting now by looking mostly for CM. Charting after stillbirth and without bfing means you should be expecting your fertility to return sooner than later - and in a lot of these cases O happens VERY quickly. Be on the lookout for very fertile CM - and also know that your body is going to be regulating itself out, so you may see random spotting and short LPs in the months ahead. I would go ahead and temp, too, although your temps are *probably* going to be erratic for now, as they would in any pp situation. Your best bet is keeping an eye out for fertile CM, and as in sdauer's case, your fertile CM may look quite a bit different than it did before pg. But who knows, you may see a nice temp pattern right off the bat.

Aletheia! Congrats and good luck with TTC.

angelraven - IA with Tiffany - do you have a chart we could look at?

[FSUSammy]

Hey everyone, thanks for welcoming me. On Friday night I went out and bought TCOYF and on Saturday I got a basal thermometer that I hope won't cause me too much grief. I'm about half way through the book already. I've learned a lot that I didn't know but I'm anxiously awaiting starting this next week. I'm on my last week of active pills and I should technically be able to start charting next Wednesday. I'm very curious to see how my body reacts without BCPs in my system. I know it might take some time to get back to whatever normal is for my body.

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight?

Sam

[angelraven]

Here is my chart. As I said earlier, I have not been consistent this month at all. The first couple of weeks were really hectic, and I did not temp. Therein lies the problem because now I have no idea what my body did/is doing.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/c822b

Also, I did take a test last Thursday, but the test was defective, as the control line did not show. I should probably retest soon.

I've also been having pains in my left ovary fairly consistently the last couple of weeks, as well as nausea for about the last 10 days. I have started a new job, so it is possible that stress could be the culprit for a lot of my symptoms. Average cycle time has been around 43 days, so maybe I shouldn't even worry until then.

Thanks for your input on this ladies.

[tlew12778]

for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight? Nope.

[tlew12778]

angelraven - Those are some high temps... What is your avg CL like? I noticed that in your last chart your pre-O temps are in the 97 range.

[Janey]

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight? Sam
Every month with the nuvaring I would gain/lose the same 3 pounds. Unfortunately going off the pill was no magic weight-loss panacea.

[kemaji]

Congratulations Aletheia! Let us know when you get your BFP!

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight?

Me neither.

Angelraven ~ It is really difficult to say what is going on based on the information we have but to me it does look like you have had some sort of temperature shift, just because CD1 is so much lower than your current temps. I can't remember...did you end up taking a PG test?

clzj ~ Based on what I've read, I was going to recommend what Clatter and tlew have posted. I would temp just to get back in the habit and get an idea of what your body is doing, but know that because you are probably still regulating, they may be erratic. Since you're coming off a pregnancy and you don't have a formal CD1 for a cycle, I would just record from now until AF as a cycle and make a note of that in your chart. Then, when you get AF you can start a new cycle. I agree with paying close attention to your CM because that will be a better indicator of fertility.

[angelraven]

Tiffany: By CL do you mean Cycle Length? Sorry, I am abbreviation challenged. lol If you mean that, they're an average of 43 days long. Those are some high temps. Even in previous cycles, they're not quite that high.

kemaji: Yes, it does look like there was a shift somewhere, but since I didn't temp, we'll never know for sure when and that's what stinks. I took an HPT last Thursday, but the control line barely showed up, and there was only a very faint line in the results pane. Since the control line was almost non-existant, I figure I better test again soon just to make sure.

[Tonysweetie]

Question: I started spotting yesterday (brown light spotting) my period isn't due for another 4-5 days. What's the deal? I also had a major dip in my temps. like below the coverline then it rose back up to post O temps today. I'm confused???! TIA!

ps I'm CD28 and 10DPO today but I usually get AF at 14DPO w/spotting started on that day.

We had PDD 4 and 5 days before O and on the day of O but it was the withdrawl method if that helps any and then UDD 5DPO

[Clattercote]

angelraven - CL, in NFP speak ;) , means coverline. In other words, in what range do your low temps usually fall, and in what range do your high temps usually fall? To me it looks like you've got 18 high temps in a range that looks (based on previous charts) like your post O temp range, and so I would strongly suspect pg. Like you say, it could be stress, it could be illness, but as you already suggested, I'd take the HPT again. But let us know where your average coverline falls and that would tell us more.

[Clattercote]

Tonysweetie - First off, I'm highly suspicious of where FF put your O, because there's a temp dip on CD 20 and still some fertile CM on CD 19. I'd be more inclined/more comfortable to put O at CD 21, which means you'd be at 8 DPO. As for the spotting, I don't know - you had some on CD 24 and now you're having it again. When you spot post-temp shift, it can indicate several things, including low progesterone, and possible pg (implantation spotting). Post BCP, spotting can also simply indicate that your body is regulating out - you could be seeing the start of what will be AF, and that will mean your LP is short for this cycle. It wouldn't be cause for alarm about short LPs yet - you'd want to give your body a bit more time to regulate itself. On the other hand, if your O was more where I'm suspecting (CD 21), that just means you're having a longish cycle and again, your body's trying to regulate itself.

Basically, I don't think there's enough data here to make a call yet - it's a wait-n-see thing.

[tlew12778]

Tonysweetie - I don't agree with your O date. Or your CL for that matter. Especially so if your CP is accurate (although... I always take that with a grain of salt since CP moves throughout the day and it's usually pretty hard for a woman who has never been pregnant to distinguish what "open" is). I would say CD20 with a CL of 97.8... did you UDD on CD21 thinking that FF was correct with your O? If you had risky DTD, I would wonder if you have an implantation dip and implantation spotting... if you did not have risky DTD, then I wouldn't worry about it for a while (basically until you see a long LP).

[angelraven]

Clattercotte: OH! Coverline! DUH! lol My average CL is around 97.5, so all of these temps I've had are above the CL. Ok, so I think I'll test tomorrow. Yikes!

[honeygirl]

I did have a question for everyone, for those of you that were previously on BCPs when you got off of them did gain/lose weight?
Sam

I lost about 2-3 lbs, which is a lot for me b/c I'm small (115-116 lbs now).

[motray36]

angelraven- It does look like you're at least 18 DPO, but its hard to say with the lack of information in the middle (which I am NOT harrassing you about because as everyone here can attest to, I have been bad over the past few cycles!)

Question in regard to something Tonysweetie mentioned....does withdrawal count as PDD? I always put it as UDD because of the unreliability.

CD12 here, waiting to O sometime between Nov. 30 and Dec. 21. I really wish I had "normal" cycles. Sometimes it is very discouraging to not be able to reap the benefits of charting (by benefits I mean knowing around when I will O or AF will come). I think that's what makes it so hard for me to stay on top of it - my brain says, "what's the point." Sorry for the rant, it must be the depression of the rainy day getting to me! :o

[kemaji]

Question in regard to something Tonysweetie mentioned....does withdrawal count as PDD? I always put it as UDD because of the unreliability.

I personally have never considered it UDD for exactly that reason.

[tlew12778]

I agree with Kemaji. I would never consider withdrawal conservative enough for TTA purposes. But then again, I guess it depends on how much you want to avoid.

[Tonysweetie]

THanks Clattercote and tlew for the advice. I guess I"ll just wait and see. The only UDD we had was a few days after O. The times before were PDD. Yes we consider withdrawl as Protected b/c like someone said it just depends how much you want to avoid. Withdrawl has been our protected method for al onnnnnggg time now. If it happened through withdrawl then well thats' wonderful! :) We rarely have UDD but if we do it's usually a week after O usually just days before AF arrives. The spotting has continued today up until about 2 hours ago and it disappeared. I'm not having any of my Post O symtpoms like sore bb's, bloating, cramps none of that. I usually by now have sore bb's and majorly bloated and cramps. I feel totally normal. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I'm not suspecting an accidental PG b/c we really didn't even have PDD or UDD around the time of O. It was about 6 or 7 days before. Thanks again for the advice :)

[dana92504]

tonysweetie - i've also had those symptoms post O: mild spotting and i usually get a dip below CL (which never fails to freak me out that it's implantation :eek: ). and if you're not worried about being pg b/c of when/how you DTD, i'd just wait and see....oh, and i agree that FF is a bit off on your O - i'd also say cd20 fwiw

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks Dana, I'm not too worried about a PG scare so I doubt it's implantation but trust me it ran across my mind a couple times but I'm just going to wait and see if AF shows like usual. I do not recall us having a mishap with DTD this month so I s hould've have a reason to be worried I guess. But I always hear that withdrawl isn't the best method but it has worked so far hehe so we shall see :)

[bijouparvin]

I'm frustrated with CM. I just can't seem to get the hang of it and it doesn't follow any reliable pattern that I can see. I have found that my charts are pretty standard, temp-wise, but when temps are wonky (like this cycle) I feel totally in the dark. Today, for instance, just to make sure, I checked CM just now and it's sort of an opaque lotion with some small, slightly stretchy globs. I always thought that if it stretches at all, it's potentially fertile CM but I'm pretty sure I'm way past O so now I don't know what's up. I surrender to the gurus of charting on this one. Help! My Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/7edaa)

[tlew12778]

bijouparvin- What's your post-O temp range normally (or your average CL)? The reason I ask is bc your last chart (whose CL I am not sure is correct bc there is not enough pre-O data) is at 97.5 which, IMO, is much too low to even consider for this chart (not that that means much). If you use the rule of thumb on CD16, I would be inclined to call O around CD22 actually (despite the lack of CM which you say you are not confident in interpreting). A couple more days of temps should confirm a shift or not.

When you say "slightly stretchy globs", how far is stretchy? Are you sure it's not just peaking? Creamy CM will peak.

********
Can someone take a look at my chart and tell me what they think is going on? I am rather confident I have O'ed bc I have dried up (no notable CM after CD21) and I am in my avg. post-O temp range now. My earliest/latest O is CD17/CD23 and my lowest CL has been 36.35 with highest at 36.5.

[boilermaker]

Well this explains why the other thread wasn't showing any action in my subscription list...

Welcome to the new members!

bijou, I'm not much help, but I can sympathize with you on the CM thing. I've been trying really hard this cycle to monitor it, but I have no idea if I'm actually calling it right. I'm hoping I can at least figure out the dry stages :)

I'm curious to see what you experts say about Tiffany's chart. My very very basic knowledge would agree that you O'ed.

I'm a little worried about the comments some of you have made about traveling. I just moved to a new position that is going to have at least one if not more trips a month. Now I'm scared this is going to screw everything up.

Somebody asked earlier about BC and weight. I didn't gain any weight when i went on the pill and I didn't lose any when I went off of it.

[MrsKinnison]

So, FF took away my crosshairs today???? Originally FF called my O on cd12, which I totally agree with, but took it away today. I just don't get it!!!

[Clattercote]

bijouparvin - It took me over 8 months to figure out what was fertile quality CM for me, and even now I sometimes throw up my hands in despair! So - you're not alone in CM frustration. It's definitely the most subjective of the signs and is very dependent on each individual body.

Compare what you described in your post to the most, most fertile quality you have in any given month. If you have clear and very stretchy fertile CM, then by comparison this is neither of those and is probably infertile. If you have watery CM at your most fertile point, same thing. If, however, your most fertile CM is lotiony with some peaks like you describe in your post, there could be a couple things going on and you might want to be cautious with UDD- one is that you're seeing the result of a post-O estrogen surge a couple days before AF; some people see fertile quality CM as a result, even though you're not fertile. In this situation, I UDD anyway, because that's my body's pattern. The other possibilities are that you haven't Od or this is a very random case of CM. Some people see fertile CM 4-5 or so days after a sure temp spikeIn this situation, don't UDD until you're sure (from dry up or temp sign) that the CM you saw was a fluke.

One piece of advice that I've been following (which will NOT work for everyone, btw) is only to observe what is on the tp, since I get a lot of CM, and it can change consistency when it's been sitting on undies for awhile. I do a tp check before and after I use the toilet and I chart the most fertile quality I see on the tp.

[Clattercote]

tlew - I think you're right - this is a stair-step pattern. I don't have my books with me to figure it out exactly, but I'd go with setting a CL at 36.5, or the LTL at 36.4 and the HTL at 36.8. I'd predict O around CD 20-21, coinciding with the CM, but would hold off on UDD till tomorrow evening, assuming that your temp rises again tomorrow.

ETA: Boilermaker - See what your body does - if your body doesn't show temp patterns, then you may want to try CM only rules - or perhaps try another method like Marquette (Marquette's rules make use of the clearblue fertility monitor in conjunction with CM - but is WAY expensive - is definitely not for everyone, but for people who travel often and don't see temp patterns, it might be a solution)

[lawgirl4]

mrskinnison - I'm not totally sure why your crosshairs were removed, but just by glancing at your chart, I think you really need more temp data for all of the post-CD12 days! i would be nervous relying on a chart with so many absent temps... just a suggestion!

[motray36]

mrskinnison - I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that FF took away your crosshairs because you've dipped below the HTL a few days in a row with no AF. I agree with lawgirl4 that you need to stay on top of temping! (Ive made this disclaimer before and will do so again...I'm not pointing fingers because Im terrible at being consistant!)

[Coccinelle]

Newbie here!

screen name:ladybug1196
Real name: Lesley(23)
DH's name: Mike (24)
DD: Lily Janette, 5/9/05
Occupation: SAHM
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 11/28/05
TTC: not really sure...maybe late 2007, early 2008

[tlew12778]

HAHAHA so FF gave me a free VIP trial again and when I logged on this morning before entering my temp, it predicted a 15 day period! Can you imagine?

Anyway so apparently my rise is called a saw-tooth rise (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps405.html#interpretingtemperaturereadingsslug). The crosshairs on FF are wrong, so I need to override... I am thinking CD20 with a CL of 36.5 (like you said Clatter). Technically according to celsius charting, I could put it at CD18 but I had watery CM after that, so it's a wait and see game with the length of the LP to determine when I really O'ed.

Has anyone ever read anything about what causes the different types of rises? I was under the impression that most ppl had the same type of rise each time, but while I have generally have classic rises, I have also had slow rises and now this saw-tooth one. I wonder if it has to do with the Fertility Blend... hmm...

[MrsKinnison]

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Missed TempsAccording to TCOYF, after 3 high temps confirms O it is not neccessary to temp until the next cycle. I still temp for most of my post O cycle, but like to skip some mornings only because I work so much and often get home very late at night. Some nights I don't get home until after 1am and then I still need 30-45mins at least before I can wind down enough to sleep. I do sometimes miss a temp pre O, but I try very hard not to. I have no doubt I O'd on CD 12 because all my normal signs were there. Unfortunatley I just haven't had much CM at all, but I do get very pronounce O pain. However, I still think it was very strange that I had so many low temps without AF (finally showed today)??? Maybe just chalk it up to another strange cycle since there seems to be so much of that going around??

In other news DH and I leave for a mini vacation to Montreal today!! We are driving up right after dinner to celebrate our 1st anniversary on Sunday and coming back on Monday. I can't believe it has already been a year!!! I've never been to Montreal so I am even extra excited!!!

I also just started my 12th chart. With any luck AF will behave and only stay her typically short visit!

I hope everyone has a happy and safe turkey day!!!

[Coccinelle]

Do any of you ladies have ovulatory pain? If so, can you describe it to me?

Last month, about a week before my period (but I didn't know my period was that close yet - I had just gone off BC the month before and it was a little early) I had pain in the lower left side of my abdomen..at one point that I had to walk stooped over. It did get better but I was pretty concerned about it and the morning I was going to call my OB/GYN to make an appointment, my period arrived. So a few days ago, I get this pain again, but in my right side instead. I am wondering if this is the ovulatory pain that I have read that some women get.

(I haven't been charting yet, DH and I have been using condoms and spermicide..I know once I am charting I will be able to determine this on my own, but it will be another month before I at this point in my cycle again and want answers now ;) )

[MrsKinnison]

ladybug The best way I can describe my O pains is like having a stitch in my side. It can be pretty uncomfortable and typically last for a few hours. As you start charting you will be able to tell for sure, but it sounds to me like that is probably what you are feeling.

[tlew12778]

Sounds like O pain to me. Especially bc it changed sides this month. Usually O flips back and forth. Although, only a week before your period would mean a very short luteal phase. Of course, that is rather common after BP, but it's something you will want to keep your eye on once you begin charting.

[angelraven]

Happy Thanksgiving ladies! Hope everyone had a wonderful day with lots of goodies to eat.

I've been having a lot of cramps, and they feel like AF cramps, so rather than going out and buying another HPT I just decided to wait it out a couple of days. I'm still pretty convinced that it's stress that's causing all of my wackiness. My husband reminded me that it has happened before.

Aside from that, I am getting a sore throat, so I'm going to bed.

Anyone brave enough to battle the crowds on Black Friday? :D

[Quartercentury]

I hope everyone had a great holiday! I'm not celebrating until tomorrow, but got a bit weepy and whatnot yesterday when I realized that we might have a baby next Thanksgiving. AF arrived after a weirdly stressful cycle, so, that's it, ladies. I am no longer an avoider. We'll be TTC as soon as I get my hands on FH again!

I'm graduated! :D

[chinadoll]

well, my cycle has been interesting this month. I'm on day 37, which makes it my longest cycle since charting began by more than 5 days! I've had very regular 28-30 day cycles until this one. I think it may be because of a new medication I started last month, or maybe my body is just trying to throw me a curve. This morning I had a significant temp drop so I'm pretty sure AF is on the way. [does anyone else still get REALLY freaked out by the possibility of pg? i do.]

a few pages back some of you were discussing Ovusoft vs. FF and I will put in my plug for Ovusoft again. I love it. I'm obsessive so I still use FF because I like to compare the two, but FF is a lot less reliable, in my experience. I like Ovusoft's graphics, the ability to adjust temperatures based on waking time), and it's just easier for me to read. You can't access it online--the downside--but when I am away I either paper-chart or enter in FF and then update Ovusoft when I get home.

[Tonysweetie]

CD31 13DPO no AF in sight. I'm not even having any PMS symptoms like always. I ALWAYS get sore BB's just after O but notta yet. Only thing I have is some fatigue. I'm wondering if I haven't even O'd yet. But had the CM and the temps. so I have no idea what is going on. I guess I'll just wait and see if she shows in the next few days. I realyl thought she was going to start earlier this week with the 2 days of light spotting I had but that went away. hmmmm :confused:

[kemaji]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

QC ~ yay, I'm so excited for you! We'll definitely miss you so come back to visit once in a while and updated us should you get PG while on your travels.

angelraven ~ This is my first and last Black Friday experience. We went to Best Buy and stood in line in the snow to wait for it to open. We had to get up at an ungodly hour and they were out of most of what we wanted before the doors opened.

ladybug ~ I'm sorry, I don't get O pains.... welcome though!

****

As for me, we went up to DH's parent's house and I was a moron and forgot my therm. I'm all but positive I O'd, however based on CM and this would make it one of the latest O's I've had since starting to chart. I'm just waiting on the temps to confirm that and hopefully I'll get those starting tomorrow.

Updated to here.

[Coccinelle]

Hey ladies! Thanks for the answers and welcome :)

I was brave enough (or dumb enough - haha :rolleyes: ) to brave the crowds today. I think I got a lot accomplished and I even picked up my basal thermometer today :D

I have to agree with chinadoll. When I tried charting before, I used Ovusoft and I really loved it!

[honeygirl]

Hi ladies. We also braved the crowds and did some shopping. It was CRAZY!

I decided to pay for the Fertility Friend VIP after my free trial ended. I like having the fertility predictor, graphs, overylay charts, etc. I briefly looked at the ovusoft program, and I didn't like the charts as much. But that's just me.

CD23, just waiting on O. Don't expect it for another week or so.

[angelraven]

I'm sick with a sore throat today, so I didn't do much shopping. I went to Kohl's, Walmart, and Target, but I didn't get anything because I felt too bad to even care. Plus, I waited 'til 2:30 and went in my smaller town, so the crowds weren't too bad for me.

In other news, my temps are finally dropping! This morning was 97.9, which is still on the high side for me, but is about .4 degree from where it has been. Lots of AF-like cramps still, so maybe I'll start tomorrow. I'm glad this is a long weekend, so I can just stay in bed since I already have this cold!

[Tonysweetie]

So confused!!! CD32 and no PMS symptoms at all. I had a temp. jump today and I'm either 14DPO or 12DPO and no sign of AF for either of the days. I ALWAYS have sore bb's just a few days after O. Is it possiable I haven't O'd??? I had spotting earlier this week but never turned into AF. I'm so confused and a tad worried something is wrong. Thanks ladies!

[clzj]

This is a TMI question.

I have been having CM with pink ting to it. Is this normal after a pg?

[Tonysweetie]

Question on FF. I accidently merged my two cycles how can I un merge them???

[kemaji]

Tonysweetie -- I'm no help about un-merging your two charts, but to me, it definitely looks like you O'd. As for mid-cycle spotting, there are a number of reasons why that could happen and Clattercote went over those in a recent post:

When you spot post-temp shift, it can indicate several things, including low progesterone, and possible pg (implantation spotting). Post BCP, spotting can also simply indicate that your body is regulating out - you could be seeing the start of what will be AF, and that will mean your LP is short for this cycle. It wouldn't be cause for alarm about short LPs yet - you'd want to give your body a bit more time to regulate itself. On the other hand, if your O was more where I'm suspecting (CD 21), that just means you're having a longish cycle and again, your body's trying to regulate itself.

[tippy]

Hi Ladies!! I haven't checked in for a while...
I've been having pretty boring charts lately. AF is expected to arrive tomorrow :( Other than that, things have been pretty normal!!

Congrats to everyone expecting!!

Welcome to all the newbies!! :)

[Reenie]

Reenie (autumnbride1113 on WC)
Real name: Reenie, 24
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Eric, 25
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): November 13, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): December 2005
TTC: Summer of 2007 or later...

I haven't started charting yet and am totally new to actually charting, so I'll probably have tons of dumb questions. I bought TCOYF and a basal thermometer today, so I will be starting the book tonight.

Should I wait until the end of my next period to start taking my temperature, or does it matter?

[chinadoll]

This is a TMI question.

I have been having CM with pink ting to it. Is this normal after a pg?
I don't know about the pg aspect, but it is normal to have pink or brown CM. I had both during my last cycle for the first time ever (kinda freaked me out) in the middle of the cycle. According to TCOYF, it is normal to have it for a few days during your cycle. You only need to be concerned if it lasts for a long time (a week or more) or if it is red/blood--mixed with CM.

ETA: my pink CM was pre-O. Clattercote's response a few posts back mentions a few things about post temp-shift spotting.

[kemaji]

Updated to here. Welcome, Reenie!

[angelraven]

AF finally started this morning. Back to CD1 for me!

[Coccinelle]

I just set up my chart on Ovusoft. Please add it to my profile :) Thanks!!

http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=ladybug1196

[tlew12778]

Should I wait until the end of my next period to start taking my temperature, or does it matter? Welcome to the group! Actually you should start taking your temp by the first day of your period bc the first day of red flow is CD1.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. I will officially start charting on Wednesday. I started taking my temp this morning to get used to it and I was wondering something,

If my thermometer says my temp is 98.05 would I record that as 98.0 or 98.1?


Thanks!
Sam

[SQ2]

If my thermometer says my temp is 98.05 would I record that as 98.0 or 98.1? I was wondering the same thing. I've been rounding up so I'd have put 98.1 but I'm not sure what you're supposed to do.

I started temping last week. We've been traveling for Thanksgiving and I've been getting up at different times so probably not very accurate but I'm just getting used to this. Even though I just started, I'm concerned about the feasibility of taking my temp at the same time every day after 3 hours of sleep. This is actually the first morning I took it after a full night's sleep (no getting up to use the bathroom). All my other temps this past week were after having gotten up to use the bathroom an hour or two before temping. My temp this morning was a lot lower than the others and I'm thinking it's because I'd had the 3 hrs minimum of sleep. Here's what my temps have been like this past week (I'm using a paper chart because I haven't had a chance to set up Ovusoft yet since we've been traveling)

W - 98.1 (5:45am)
Th - 98.1 (5:30am)
F - 97.9 (7:10am)
Sa - 97.8 (6:40am)
Su - 97.8 (5:40am)
M - 97.4 (5:30am)

I usually always get up at least some point during the night to use the bathroom but it really varies night to night. Is this going to be a huge problem with charting? This is my first cycle off BCPs and DH and I are planning to use backup all the time so I'm not worried too much about getting pregnant, but I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Someone mentioned that Ovusoft can adjust temps based on waking time so I'll have to look into that.

[tlew12778]

Rounding - IMO, it makes no difference what you do so long as you are consistent about it. I would probably round up for .5 or above and down for .4 or below... just like math rules tell you to do.

Bathroom breaks - As a rule of thumb, they make no difference. I think it's actually written out on the beginning of this thread. You may notice differences if say, you get up 10 minutes before temping vs 2 hours before temping... just make a note of it. It's more important that you temp at the same time everyday, not necessarily at waking time, btw.

[Clattercote]

Hi - I'm back from Thanksgiving Break, during which I've been sick the whole time :( - sore throat and congestion. I'm also on CD 23 with no O in sight - I think the UTI a couple weeks ago, combined with the cold-thing this past week have delayed O.

FSUSammy - I'd round up - I find it easier to note the coverline with I'm dealing only with tenths of a degree and not hundredths.

SQ2 - I'd be less concerned about 3 hours of uninterrupted sleep (especially if you're just getting up to go to the bathroom) and more concerned about taking the temps at the same time every morning. It will depend on how your body reacts, of course, but I think that most people don't notice significant changes in their temps in the morning when they've gotten up once or twice (or even gotten up to bf). Consistency in time is far more important - so pick a time (5:45 or 7:30) and stick to it. I take my temp every morning at 6, even if I've had one of those horrible tossing and turning nights where I woke up at 1am and finally started snoozing again at 5:45 am - sometimes my temp is affected and sometimes it isn't - but I use the rule of thumb or shaving rules if something's out of line.

Tonysweetie - I'm just going to say again that I think FF was wrong in its interpretation of your O date and that you're today 13 DPO. Your body's still regulating out, so we don't know how long your LP "should be" so I don't think that there is cause for alarm yet.

However, if you don't see AF in the next couple days, I will strongly suspect pg and also suspect that the dip on 7 DPO (by my interp., not FF's) and the spotting indicate implantation. You said that you UDD 5-6 days after FF's O interpretation, which would put UDD only 2-3 days after my interpretation - not a long enough wait for TTA, unfortunately. But it's still a wait-and-see game - it's entirely possible you'll see AF today.

[SQ2]

Same time every day... got it. :) Do you all set your alarms for the same time every morning to temp or do you just wake up at that time? What about weekends when you want to sleep in? I guess just make a note of it, huh. I won't worry so much anymore about getting up for bathroom visits. That's going to happen no matter what, always does and usually at a different time every night. :rolleyes:

[tlew12778]

I wake up at 8AM everyday. On the weekends I set the alarm for 8 and when it goes off, I groggily reach for my therm, take my temp, then go back to sleep as soon as my therm starts beeping. I start taking my temp around CD6. Once I have o'ed, with a regular cycle (not like this one!) I stop taking my temp for the middle part of my LP and start taking it again just so I know when AF will show.

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- I set my alarm super early (5:30am) because that is when DH has to get up for work. On the weekends, I still temp at 5:30 and just fall straight back to sleep.

Updated to here.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Thought of a few more questions for you guys.

1) Since this will be my first cycle charting should I focus on doing it on paper first before considering tracking on something like Ovusoft?

2) Do all digital basal thermometers take about 5 minutes to finish reading your temp? I bought my therm. at Walgreens and it seemed like it took forever this morning. Is there a faster therm.? Anyone have one that has a lighted display, I really don't like having to put the light on to just see if the therm. is on or not.

Thanks again!
Sam

[SQ2]

FSUSammy ~ ITA! I got my thermometer at Walgreens too and it doesn't have a light either. I hate that. Mine seems to take awhile too but it's probably only 3 minutes or so. I think that's what it says on the package.

I have also just started with a paper chart but plan to try Ovusoft soon, when I have time (just got back from Thanksgiving traveling and have finals coming up!)

[honeygirl]

Same time every day... got it. :) Do you all set your alarms for the same time every morning to temp or do you just wake up at that time? What about weekends when you want to sleep in? I guess just make a note of it, huh. I won't worry so much anymore about getting up for bathroom visits. That's going to happen no matter what, always does and usually at a different time every night. :rolleyes:

I set an alarm for about 30min - 1 hour before I have to get up. On weekends I wake up to temp and then go back to sleep. I rarely have to get up earlier than my charting time.

Re: paper or online, I do both. I like the paper charts for traveling or to take to the doctor. But the online charting helps me figure out my coverline, when I o'ed, etc.

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks clattercote again. STill no AF today nor do I feel like she's going be showing today. I do not have any sore bb's, bloating, cramping, skin break out notta. I ALWAYS have sore bb's after O. I don't know. My first thought was PG too but I didn't want to get my hopes up again this month until after AF was officially due so I kinda let that thought slide out of my head. WE only had UDD after O not before but I know that is a no no especially when just started to chart for TTA, :rolleyes: but we all get caught up in those heat of the moments ya know? I only blame myslef an dDH lol. So we'll see thanks for all your help!!!

[Reenie]

Do all digital basal thermometers take about 5 minutes to finish reading your temp? I bought my therm. at Walgreens and it seemed like it took forever this morning. Is there a faster therm.? Anyone have one that has a lighted display, I really don't like having to put the light on to just see if the therm. is on or not.


BD makes a digital thermometer that temps in one minute and has a lighted display. Here's the link for it. (http://www.bd.com/thermometers/products/basal_basal.asp)

tlew Thanks for the response! I normally have a day or two of spotty or very light brown fluid before the red menstrual fluid, so I should really count those days as CD 28 and 29 or whatever, not days 1 and 2? I read this in TCOYF, too, but I want to make sure that I am understanding...

[kemaji]

I normally have a day or two of spotty or very light brown fluid before the red menstrual fluid, so I should really count those days as CD 28 and 29 or whatever, not days 1 and 2? I read this in TCOYF, too, but I want to make sure that I am understanding...

Yup, I count AF as first day of red flow that is heavy enough for more than a panti-liner. I would make a note of the spotting on your chart as well, but that wouldn't count as CD1 of a new cycle.

[Tonysweetie]

Ugh feeling so sluggish today! I have pre AF stuff. I'm incrediably bloated, and very gassy, yuck! Hopefully she shows tomorrow!!! Well goodnight everyone!!! :D

[Reenie]

Thanks kemaji.

Now another question: if I want to show my chart in this thread if I ever have questions, is there something more that I should do than a regular link? Because it seems that if I linked you directly to what I see, you'd have to log in? Sorry if that's an idiotic question. :rolleyes:

[tlew12778]

Now another question: if I want to show my chart in this thread if I ever have questions, is there something more that I should do than a regular link? Because it seems that if I linked you directly to what I see, you'd have to log in? Sorry if that's an idiotic question. :rolleyes: There are instructions on the first page on how to add a chart link to either your sig or your posts. On FF, you have to set up a homepage and it willg ive you a URL that you can use to link your chart. I don't know how OS works bc I only use FF.

[Reenie]

There are instructions on the first page on how to add a chart link to either your sig or your posts. On FF, you have to set up a homepage and it willg ive you a URL that you can use to link your chart. I don't know how OS works bc I only use FF.

Thanks. I was having trouble figuring out how to set up my home page on FF, but I got it now. :p

[Janey]

Reenie, FWIW on Ovusoft, should you decide to go that route, after you've uploaded your chart it tells you the URL where it's been uploaded to.

OK. So. I have my first CM question. Since Saturday, I've had a sensation that has been different than a 'nothing' sensation, but it is not sticky. It's more cold/wet... but not to the extent that it's eggwhite cold/wet. When I check CM there's little to check... it's more than nothing, but less than watery. I don't exactly know how to categorize this. Any suggestions? Is this just something that takes a few cycles to figure out what my body does?

I've also been sick with Strep Throat since Saturday, but I haven't had a fever. I've been taking "Tylenol Cold," and yesterday went to the Dr. and got some antibiotics. I'm not sure how much this sort of thing affects your chart? My temps seem to be in a pretty tight range.

Here's my Chart (http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill).

[Tonysweetie]

17DPO according to FF 14DPO according to me and others in here and no AF. I had another temp. jump today which is getting me worried! I know last month I had a scare but it was mainly b/c DH and I were not careful and I wasn't used to being off the pill well now I'm used to it and we were careful!!! I have a very nice looking implantation dip and spotting around 7DPO and my temops just are not dropping!!! AF usually comes at 13-14DPO. If she doesn't show by the weekend I guess I'll know. I'm scared and freaking out b/c we decided that we just are not ready until maybe next year. I guess it would be a blessing and of course we'd be estatic but scary none the less. Okay done venting now.....:eek: :confused:

[AHammer]

I need a second opinion on my chart. I'm confident that I've O'd, but I think it happened yesterday and FF is saying it might have happened 4 days ago.

I'm thinking it was just yesterday because I definitely had EWCM yesterday, and last night in bed I had what I believe to be some serious ovulation pain!!! it was right next to my hip bone, lasted about 2 minutes, and it hurt. Maybe it was ovulation, maybe not.

Second opinions, anyone? Also, looking at last month's chart, it seems today's temp fits more into the post-O temperature range. I still consider myself a newbie to this so any help is appreciated :-D

Amy

[clzj]

Tony-If you look at chart 12 of mine you will see my pg chart. The way your chart looks I would guess that you are pg. It has been awhile since I charted. Have you discussed the possibility of being pg with your husband? This is something that you need to discuss.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/53585

Charting the first few cycles is tricky. I know that we played it very safe when we first started charting and that was to for go 14 days every month. If we decided to dtd we would use protection.

[Clattercote]

AHammer - I don't see an uncontestable O yet, but I'd say O was likely last night/today. I think FF's crosshairs are wrong, since you clearly have fertile CM after the crosshairs, and moreover, your temp dropped back down on CD 23. I'd say CD 22 was more like a pre-shift spike. If your temps stay up tomorrow and the next day and your CM dries up, I think we could put the crosshairs on CD 23.

Tonysweetie - I think you've probably got a pg chart too, especially with the temp rising today - that would indicate the beginning of a triphasic temp - I'd say you're 15 DPO today, so by now you'd usually have seen the temp start to dip as the progesterone drops off. In your case it looks like it's only rising, as you say. I can see how it's scary and how you'd be freaking out- but can I just say too, I'm also excited for you :) , especially since you were so into pg last month. So we'll have to see what happens.

As for how pg could happen this month (if you're interested) - I'd guess one of two things: 1) Barrier/withdrawal method failure during one of the DTDs 2) I thought I remembered you saying that you UDD'd 5-6 days after FF's O interpretation, which by our interpretation on this board would be only 2-3 DPO, so pg would have been possible then as well. Strict TTA rules would advise waiting till the 3rd full day of temp shift and the fourth full day of CM dry up. My two cents.

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks ladies and thanks Honeygirl for coming into my journal too. I'm guessing PG also. I haven't told DH. I told him I was late but he doesn't quite understand how that works, lol. I wanna get a + before I tell DH> I want surprise him. Since I'm out of a car right now b/c of my accident I probably won't be able to get a test until DH takes me grocery shopping again which won't be until the weekend or after, Oh my! lol. Maybe I'll have my best friend take me to the store tomorrow. I can't wait that long now that you girls are fueling me up, lol. I'm getting very excited now!!!! lol. Gosh what a whirlwind this month has been, me getting into a car accdient 2 weeks ago, MIL might have breast cancer, THanksgiving, my washer flooded my kitchen last week, and now possiably a pregnancy. Wowzers! Anyways I'll keep posted! AHHHH excited!!! :D


ps yes Clattercote we used the withdrawl method before O but not after O so Ig uess it's very possiable but it's just funny how last month we used no type of protection and DH didn't pull out once but yet I didn't get PG and now we do and I might be PG. :rolleyes: lol I just don't feel PG though. No sore bb's, not sick, not sore, no headaches, nothing. I feel totally normal.

[Clattercote]

MrsHill - I like to categorize that kind of CM as "m" for "mediocre mucus". Seriously. I mean, it's clearly there, but it's not so clearly either fertile or infertile. I'd make a note of it and consider that because mucus is there, you're in your fertile phase in terms of strict TTA charting.

As for whether antibiotics etc. change things on your chart, it depends. I've noticed that I get more CM when I take certain decongestants but the temps don't change unless I'm running a fever.

Tonysweetie - It can take a while for pg symptoms to show up - and there's a still a chance you're not pg - as Toni Weschler says, though, if by CD 18 you're still seeing high temps and no sign of AF, you can be almost completely sure of pg.

[motray36]

The cycle before last I had a 17 day LP...and that was after a year of 6-10 day ones. I tend to always get that "oh, my gosh, my stomach hurts...maybe Im pg :eek: " feeling late in my cycle.

tony- I hope that either way, you get what you want! I know you've been not-so-secretly hoping;)

reeny welcome! and, there are no stupid questions!

Im at CD19, slight temp rise today, although 97.7 isn't post-o for me. EW for the past few days and seems to be drying up...we'll see :)

I had a gyn appt. yesterday, with a new doc (actually with a nurse practitioner), and on my "new patient" sheet, under birth control I put "sympto-thermal method," and under problems, I put "irregular luteal phase"....basically just to see if they had any clue what I was talking about.

As the np is looking over my chart, she's does an obvious double-take and then says, "well, I see that you aren't having any problems, so we'll just continue with the exam." Lovely, really lovely...if you dont know what a patient is talking about, just completely ignore and disregard her!

[FSUSammy]

So tomorrow is CD1 for me of charting. I'm actually excited about this because I'm venturing into something totally new for me. But instead of feeling uneasy about doing this I'm pretty confident. The book just made so much sense to me and I'm just looking foward to seeing what my "real" chart really looks like instead of this fake cycle I've had my body go through for the past 6 years. Plus you all have so much knowledge I can't go wrong unless I clearly break a rule. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions this first cycle.

motray36 - I hate docs/np's that do that! Did you bring it up verbally to the np? I would have. My DH tends to love going to the doctor's office and speaking doctor talk to them to "Test" them. He really should have gone to med school because he knows a lot of medicine related things, but alas he's an IT nerd just like me.

Sam

[HisSpicy]

My cycle is being a little funny. I know I've ovulated, but am not 100% sure when. I've had sticky, creamy, eggwhite and all that, but my last day of cervical fluid wasn't eggwhite, like it has been, it kinda tapered off. And since I've ovulated and stopped having cervical fluid, I've still been fairly damp off and on throughout the day- but it looks and feels exactly like arousal lube, not fertile like at all, but more still more dampness than I'm used to. Unfortunately, I left my thermometer at home when I came back to school for a couple days, so two rather important temps are missing. But I've had a clear temp shift (the last two days are high because I've been sleeping with extra blankets.) If anyone can offer any ideas, I'd greatly appreciate it!

[SQ2]

Well, so much for my first cycle of charting. I have the stomach flu (fever, chills, headache, throwing up) so my temps are going to be messed up. My period ended on Saturday but I had some bleeding/spotting today. Don't know if that's related to going off the pill or not. Maybe my body is just trying to rid itself of all the bad stuff. :rolleyes:

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks again Clattercote, I'm just not sure, I'm getting my hopes up though. After leaving my house today thinking I wasn't having any symptoms and I promise this isn't anyth8ing fake I have been sick to my stomach the past 2 days, but (TMI) more on the diahhera side not vomiting side. Idk if tha tis normal or maybe I Just have a virus b/c I've had it the past 2 days but didn't think anythign of it until I was out shopping today and had to make a pit stop which hardly ever happens to me. I'm still not having any AF symptoms besides bloating and I always get sore bb's so who knows. I'll keep posted! hehe thanks again!!!

[tlew12778]

motray36 OK well I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but it's been my experience that a lot of drs take self-diagnosis with a grain of salt. So it may not have necessarily been that she has no idea what you talking about, so much as she doesn't hold stock in your interpretation (although, it's also possible she had no clue). When I told my gyn I had a short-ish LP (pre-PCOS it was 11 days) she asked me exactly how I was determining it and grilled me a bit on how I came to that conclusion. I actually had my charts with me but I didn't break them out bc she seemed to cave and believe me once I explained to her how I was charting and that I was not using only the Billings Method which I guess is pretty popular here. Anyway, my point is that a lot of drs like to see lab results and until then, they won't really believe you (FH is like this actually :rolleyes: ).

HisSpicy I agree that you have a thermal shift there as well provided you have one more high temp.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Today is CD1 for me even though AF hasn't appeared just yet. She normally arrives around 10a.m.ish but I know she'll come today since my body is still technically on the pill plus I'm having major cramps.

I took my temp today and stupid therm. showed it in Celsius by accident so I had to write down the Celsius temp and run to my computer to get the conversion. It came out to 96.6 which of course is not on the chart. And I do remember that the last two days that I took my temp it was over 97 so it appears that (at least for this cycle) my low's are in the 96's and my highs will be in the 97's.

Has this happened to anyone else where their temps are lower than what the charts have? Just curious.

Sam

[tlew12778]

I chart online so that's not possible (at least on FF). FF will refuse the temp only if it's so low you'd be dead or suffering from hypothermia. That happened with me once when I mistakenly entered in 34.x instead of 36.x.

[dana92504]

17DPO according to FF 14DPO according to me and others in here and no AF. I had another temp. jump today which is getting me worried! I know last month I had a scare but it was mainly b/c DH and I were not careful and I wasn't used to being off the pill well now I'm used to it and we were careful!!! I have a very nice looking implantation dip and spotting around 7DPO and my temops just are not dropping!!! AF usually comes at 13-14DPO. If she doesn't show by the weekend I guess I'll know. I'm scared and freaking out b/c we decided that we just are not ready until maybe next year. I guess it would be a blessing and of course we'd be estatic but scary none the less. Okay done venting now.....:eek: :confused:


i would try not to freak out too much. i almost always have a dip below CL and spotting during LP. i don't know why - guess my body always wants to freak me out into thinking it's implantation ;p. i would wait until the weekend and take an HPT.

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - Yes - I often get temps in the 96 range and basically I just cross out the numbers on my paper charts and write in 96s and 97s.

[motray36]

HisSpicy-Were you on BCP before charting? When I while I was on them, my CM was almost non-existant, but now "dry" isn't even really dry...I almost always have some CM.

tlew - I wish she would have asked me how I figured it out! By my comment, "basically just to see if they had any clue what I was talking about" I meant more of what you were talking about...the reaction of, "this girl is doing the rythm method and thinks she knows when her luteal phase starts...dummy" It never ceases to crack me up :)

[HisSpicy]

motray36 No, I've never been on any sort of birth control before charting-just condoms.
tlew12778 Another high temp for me today-so themal shift confirmed
FSUSammy My temps are always 96s before ovulation, and 97s after. I've had lower temps since I was a child, now during the day I'm usually high 97s, when I was little I was usually 98.1.

Now I have another question!:D FF (which I don't like, I only use it so you guys can see the chart, I love my paper charts.) Anyway, FF put my O date cd 23, (today is cd 26 for me) just because I didn't put anything for ceverical fluid the past several days. I didn't because I wasn't dry, but it wasn't even sticky. Should I mark them as dry because I'm sure it wasn't fertile quality, or just let FF have the wrong date and override when I get AF and can be more sure of O? (Stupid technology, so complicated!)

[Tonysweetie]

18DPO according to FF 16DPO according to me and a high temp. again today. It did drop from 98.2 to 98.0 but still high for this time durning my LP. AF was expected 3 days ago. I'm still just going to wait a few more days b/c I do not want to keep taking a ton of tests. So I'm going to try and hold out until nxt week or at least until I'm still seeing High temps after 18DPO. Thanks again ladies I'll keep posted...still no sore bb's, no headaches, nothing far as AF symptoms go...

[Clattercote]

Hisspicy - FF did that because it noticed another potential temp shift on CD 23 - the temps jump up a level above 97.5 and so it thinks that perhaps there was an O there. If you put in the CM observations, I don't know what it would do - the program might still overcompensate for the perceived temp shift on CD 23.

[giry76]

giry76
Name: Colleen (29)
DH: Troy (30)
Occupation: Accounts Receivable Assistant
Married: September 25, 2004
Started Charting: November, 2004
TTC: Sometime in 2006

I wondered why you were all so quiet ;) I didn't see the new thread till today.

[Tonysweetie]

Okay, I'm sick of this waiting stuff, lol. I confinded in my friend Chrissy who has a 7 month old son and she told me that she thinks i'm pregnant which is waht I'm starting to believe. I'm 16DPO according to me and no sign of AF approaching anytime soon. I've super bloated, sick to my stomach, and having hot flashes, and majorly increased CM. This never happens to me before AF.(TMI) my bowl movements have been off the charts. I've been going at least 3-5 days a day if not more and there lose and it's getting so bad that I saw some blood today which did alarm me but I'm pretty sure it's just from going so much I'm sore! lol. Plus I do have a hemmoroid so I'm sure that's what that was. Okay sorry for the TMI! lol. I'm just venting again...anyways if my temp. it's still in the post O range tomorrow and Friday I'm going to buy a test. I just don't want to waste money on BFN, ya know? Then if I see a BFN and AF doesn't show over the weekend I'm going in for a blood test on Tuesday if I'm not working. I still haven't told DH b/c I don't want to get his hopes up plus it would be fun to surprise him ya know? I feel so funny talking about this in the TTA thread should I leave? Anyays I'm going to stop blabbing I'm just super nervous! Nite Nite girls! God Bless!!!

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[Janey]

MrsHill - I like to categorize that kind of CM as "m" for "mediocre mucus". Seriously. I mean, it's clearly there, but it's not so clearly either fertile or infertile. I'd make a note of it and consider that because mucus is there, you're in your fertile phase in terms of strict TTA charting.
Thanks, Clatter! I decided in between my post and reading yours that I should just consider it the most fertile kind it could be to be on the safe side. Since Ovusoft does not give me an option for "M" (how clever!), I called it dry cervical fluid but 'wet moist gooey cold' sensation. Which I think was as descriptive as I could get it.

After entering my data from the weekend yesterday, Ovusoft drew me a cover-line. Hooray for me - I have my first cover-line! (Again, pardon the newbie in awe of everything)

[Reenie]

Thanks for the welcomes and the kind responses!

I have come with yet more questions. :o
#1) I've been temping at 6:30 each day, but my cat loves to play from 5 until I get up, kind of forcing me to drift in and out of sleep (mostly in ;) ). Is this okay for temping? TCOYF was talking about 3 hours of sleep, and it's kind of interrupted.
#2) I had some CF today that was not EW but not C or S. It was like EW but not at all stretchy and not as much as I'd expect with EWCM. What should I classify this as? I looked at the pictures in TCOYF and it doesn't look like any of them.

I am so glad that I decided to start mid-cycle, because then I'll feel a little more comfortable looking at my chart after the next cycle to get a "real" feel for things; this is my trial run.

Okay, and I'm still not finished with TCOYF, so sorry if this was in there and I haven't gotten there yet, but
#3) What are "normal" pre-O temps and and post-O temps? Does it simply depend on the woman? I don't think that I O'd yet because I have been paying attention to CM for a long time now, and my temps these last three days have been 97.1, 97.5, 97.5, respectively.
#4) How long is recommended to chart before trying UDD? I think I might be too much of a scaredy-cat to do it, well, maybe ever. :eek: :o But at least several cycles.

(ETA: sorry I wrote a book here!)

[tlew12778]

Reenie - My cats always wake me up at night too. In fact, last night my fatty woke me up about 4 times bc ke kept purring every time he woke up. It was like having a car idling on my leg all night long :rolleyes:. Basically I would treat animal bahvior just like getting up to pee. If it's normal/consistent for you, then it's ok.

When in doubt, err on the side of caution and classify as the most fertile CM possible. Look at it this way, if you were TTC, you'd be BDing "just in case" right? So in this case, DTD protected "just in case" (seeing as how you have not confirmed O yet that is).

Pre-O/Post-O temps differ from woman to woman.

I think most of us here did 3 months of total protection (at MINIMUM 3 months of no-UDD pre-O). IIRC, TCOYF recommends 6 actually, but I don't know how many people actually do that. I know that I felt a lot more comfortable with UDD post-O in the beginning than I did pre-O (until I could establish an avg. day for O range).

[AHammer]

Well, FF did what I was hoping and changed my O day from 20 to 23, which I am much more likely to believe, given I had ovulation pain that day. And also it makes me happy to think both cycles I've charted I O'd on CD 23. It would be cool to have a super regular cycle (now I've probably jinxed myself).

[dana92504]

Thanks for the welcomes and the kind responses!

I have come with yet more questions. :o
#1) I've been temping at 6:30 each day, but my cat loves to play from 5 until I get up, kind of forcing me to drift in and out of sleep (mostly in ;) ). Is this okay for temping? TCOYF was talking about 3 hours of sleep, and it's kind of interrupted.
#2) I had some CF today that was not EW but not C or S. It was like EW but not at all stretchy and not as much as I'd expect with EWCM. What should I classify this as? I looked at the pictures in TCOYF and it doesn't look like any of them.

I am so glad that I decided to start mid-cycle, because then I'll feel a little more comfortable looking at my chart after the next cycle to get a "real" feel for things; this is my trial run.

Okay, and I'm still not finished with TCOYF, so sorry if this was in there and I haven't gotten there yet, but
#3) What are "normal" pre-O temps and and post-O temps? Does it simply depend on the woman? I don't think that I O'd yet because I have been paying attention to CM for a long time now, and my temps these last three days have been 97.1, 97.5, 97.5, respectively.
#4) How long is recommended to chart before trying UDD? I think I might be too much of a scaredy-cat to do it, well, maybe ever. :eek: :o But at least several cycles.

(ETA: sorry I wrote a book here!)

#1 - i temp at 5am everday and often wake up during the night - and almost always around 4/4:15 and drift in and out. i still take my temp at 5 and it doesn't affect me. if you find it is affecting your temps, maybe you could start temping at like 2am to make sure you had 3 hrs, and then just go back to sleep.

#2 - was it watery? that's what it sounds like. i'd classify it as the most fertile it could possibly be. so if it's not EW or C, i'd go with watery.

#3 - it varies from person to person. usually my CL is around 97.5 or 97.6. so for me, those temps would be pre-O. but for you it could be diff.

#4 - just follow the rules and stick to them. you don't sound comfortable yet, so i would use protection - at least until you've started from the beginning of a cycle.

[Clattercote]

Reenie -

I think everyone else has offered great answers to your questions, but let me just add: if your cats consistently wake you pretty much at 5 and you dose off and on till 6:30 because of the cats, maybe you could also temp at 5 am and still dose on and off till 6:30?

[Clattercote]

AHammer - I think because of the fertile CM, though, you'd be better off assuming O more around CD 24, even though your temp shift starts on that same day. But because there's no dry up on CD 24 and instead more fertile CM, I'd go with the later date.

[AHammer]

AHammer - I think because of the fertile CM, though, you'd be better off assuming O more around CD 24, even though your temp shift starts on that same day. But because there's no dry up on CD 24 and instead more fertile CM, I'd go with the later date.

I agree it might have been CD 24. I was just thinking CD 23 because of the O pain. Either way, it's better safe than sorry, so we'll wait another day or two before UDD. we're still super cautious since it's just my 2nd cycle charting!

[Tonysweetie]

Hey girls it dropped to 97.9 but its still high so keeping my hopes up!! Today is 17DPO and still no AF symptoms at all. I've even somehow managed to loose a few lbs.??? Ohwell I'll keep posted!!! God Bless!!!

[clzj]

Tony-With my first pg the only symptom I had to start with was tired. With both of my pg's I did not gain any weight until I was 5-6 months pg. I was not charting with the first one. With my second pg I was charting and I have given you access to look at that one.

[honeygirl]

FF says I'm 5DPO. If they're right then I o'ed a week earlier this cycle. That would be good news b/c I'd like shorter cycles (last cycles were 39 and 44 days).

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

[Coccinelle]

Hey girls it dropped to 97.9 but its still high so keeping my hopes up!! Today is 17DPO and still no AF symptoms at all. I've even somehow managed to loose a few lbs.??? Ohwell I'll keep posted!!! God Bless!!!


I hope you get the BFP you are looking for :)

[kemaji]

FF says I'm 5DPO. If they're right then I o'ed a week earlier this cycle. That would be good news b/c I'd like shorter cycles (last cycles were 39 and 44 days).

honeygirl, the only thing I'd keep an eye on is that your temps are still in your pre-O range. At least for myself, I wouldn't be convinced of an O yet.

Tonysweetie, I have a friend who on all of her pregnancies lost a bit of weight right as she found out she was PG. I'm not saying that is a common symptom as I'm sure you could find someone who had every FPS out there. That is actually how she figured she was pregnant on with her third. I hope you get your BFP, if that is what you want.

[tlew12778]

honeygirl - I would NOT UDD. I agree with Kemaji that you do not have a convincing O there.

[honeygirl]

honeygirl - I would NOT UDD. I agree with Kemaji that you do not have a convincing O there.

Damn. :) So how many days should I wait before UDD? I'd guess at least until my previous O date, is that right? I thought the rules were 3-5 days past O, but I understand that I may not have actually O'ed.

[tlew12778]

Wait until you have a confirmed temp shift... if you don't get one, then no UDD this cycle... If your temps stayed the way they are now (up and down like that), I would be more than likely to call it annov when AF came around. But that is obviously too premature to call now (so don't worry about that). Based on your last chart, I would say you are looking for temps in the 97s.

[kemaji]

honeygirl -- For this chart right now, I'd say 97.8 and above would be a good starting point, considering your current temp range is generally in the range of 97.1 - 97.7.

FWIW, I'm not convinced that you O'd the date that FF says you did on your last cycle. I'd be more inclined to put it on cd35 based on CM and temps.

[Reenie]

Thanks to tlew12778, dana92504, and Clattercote for answering my questions. Don't worry, there will be no UDD for at least several cycles. Clattercote, yeah, I was kind of thinking that about temping when he wakes me up, but that isn't really consistent, either. I guess time will dictate the answer here.

Tonysweetie My SIL lost weight at the beginning of each pregnancy, too (just a few pounds, nothing dangerous or to indicate illness).

[chinadoll]

W - 98.1 (5:45am)
Th - 98.1 (5:30am)
F - 97.9 (7:10am)
Sa - 97.8 (6:40am)
Su - 97.8 (5:40am)
M - 97.4 (5:30am)

I usually always get up at least some point during the night to use the bathroom but it really varies night to night. Is this going to be a huge problem with charting? This is my first cycle off BCPs and DH and I are planning to use backup all the time so I'm not worried too much about getting pregnant, but I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Someone mentioned that Ovusoft can adjust temps based on waking time so I'll have to look into that.
This is why I love Ovusoft. I don't set an alarm to temp at the same time every day, I just temp when I get up. Usually that is between 5:30 and 6:00 , but sometimes I wake up before 5. I've been charting for over a year now, and it does not change my charts much to do it this way. Ovusoft adjusts my charts for me (it makes a note when it does this so you can go back to the original temps if necessary). I think the default is that Ovusoft will assume your temps go up 0.1 degrees each half hour--this is consistent for me. I get up 2-3 times a night and it doesn't affect my temps.

It might take a few cycles to figure out if the 0.1/halfhour is accurate for you or not. Assuming it was, this is how Ovusoft would adjust your temps. I'll use an average 5:45am wakeup time:

W - 98.1 (5:45am)--98.1
Th - 98.1 (5:30am)--98.1
F - 97.9 (7:10am)--97.6
Sa - 97.8 (6:40am)--97.6
Su - 97.8 (5:40am)--97.8
M - 97.4 (5:30am)--97.4

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks girls, nothing new to report. I just got home from work. I'm honestly not having any FPS or RPS at all except this stomach diahheara thing. But it claared up today but when I went earlier (TMI) it was more of a constipated thing and it hurt and I bled a little again. So who knows? Yes I lost like 4 lbs. within in a week and I haven't been doing a thing to lose weight either like I ususally eat well and excercise this week has been the total opposite. Well tomorrow is 18DPO nd if I still have a high temp. I guess we'll know, lol. Now tonight it's in the 40's and the past few nights it's been warm so could that mess with my temp. in the morning????

[Harmony96]

Hi all...

my subscription stopped notifying me again. LOL. Nothing new here. CD 21 and no O yet. Looks like my cycles are settling into looooong ones.

Tonysweetie, i can't wait to see what tomorrow has in store for you. :)

Andrea

[Tonysweetie]

okay here's a pickle...Just to see what it would say I took a OPK and it was almost postive, the line was just slightly lighter than the test line. I'm really starting to think I haven't even ovulated yet. B/C after I ovulate I ALWAYS get sore bb's and I do'nt have any this month so who knows what's going on? What doy ou girls think???? I would think I could have a delayed O b/c of my car accident this month, a UTI, my MIL finding out she has breast cancer, trying to find a new car, the stress of getting ready to move and then of course the holidays. It has been a very stressful month. idk what to think???! If I already O'd would I still be getting almost + OPK right now? If I was PG wouldn't there only be 1 line and not 2???

[kemaji]

Tonysweetie -- I think you've ovulated because you definitely have two ranges of temps in this cycle. Your pre-O temps are 97.2 - 97.6 and your post-O temps are 97.7 - 98.2 and I'd place your O on CD20 based on your temp shift and CM dry up.

I don't know how OPKs work, but I thought that they were only considered positive when both lines were equally dark. If one line was lighter than the other than it was considered negative for ovulation. Can anyone else add to this?

ETA, I found this from the link in my following post:
an OPK is only positive if both lines are equally dark (or if the TEST line is darker than the CONTROL line.) An OPK may show a faint test line in the presence of very little LH or hCG.

[kemaji]

Tonysweetie -- Just for fun, I looked it up online and I found this website:

http://www.peeonastick.com/opkhpt.html

OPK's as HPT's:
using an ovulation test to confirm pregnancy

Overall-- yes, it can be done. Ovulation predictor tests (known as OPK's because they are normally sold in a set of tests known as a "kit," thus the K) will show a positive result when a woman is pregnant, as well as when she's ovulating.

Specifically-- while it works most of the time, there are good reasons to avoid using an OPK as an HPT for diagnostic purposes. If you want to pee on any stick that will stand still after you know you're pregnant, just for fun, have at it. But I would not recommend using an OPK in place of an HPT overall.

Reasoning-- OPK's detect LH (luteinizing hormone) which is the hormone associated with ovulation. Pregnancy tests detect hCG, the hormone associated with pregnancy. LH and hCG are, at a molecular level, nearly identical. hCG has a beta subunit, meaning it has an extra little "doodad." To use a stupid but easy to understand example, LH and hCG are identical twins, except that hCG wears a funny hat.

There is a lot more at that website, but basically, an OPK will turn positive at ovulation and if you are pregnant because the hormones that indicate both are basically identical.

FWIW, you can't do a reverse test and use an HPT to test for ovulation.

There is a lot more information at the link.

Personally, I think you need to get yourself to the drugstore so you can confirm one way or the other! :)

[Tonysweetie]

kemaji: Yea I just read that before u posted it, hehe. Okay so I guess I can still get 2 lines on an OPK with or w/o being pregnant, some help, haha. I will get a test probably over the weekend. I finally told DH and he is anxious so we'll see. Thanks for the info and the help much appriciated :)

[MrsKinnison]

Tonysweetie I'd say your chart is looking pretty good for PG too, so I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!!!

Can someone tell me what FPS or RPS stands for? I'm usually pretty good at figuring these things out, but I'm baffled about these. Thanks!!

[Tonysweetie]

MrsKinnison Thanks!!!! FPS= Fake Pregnancy Symptoms and RPS = Real Pregnancy Symptoms HTH!

[southerner]

Mrs.Hill sent me over from the rookie thread. Had to give props ;)

I haven't bought any books yet. But, I'm ready to and I want to chart now before we start TTC in the Spring/Summer, so I can learn about my cycles and my body. This thread seems like it will be very helpful. I need to find time to read it all though :eek:


southerner
Name: 30 (in January)
DH: 31
Married:August 2003
Started Charting: January 2006
TTC: Spring/Summer 2006

[kemaji]

southerner -- Welcome! Feel free to ask any question you might have, we like answering questions.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[Tonysweetie]

BFN! I don't get it??? I'm 18DPO and stil have high temps??? Whats going on???

[FSUSammy]

Tonysweetie That's strange! I don't get the BFN. Hmmmm maybe you haven't O'd yet since you said there has been a lot of stressers in your life recently. That would definitely affect it. By the way, where in Florida are you from?

Sam

[tlew12778]

BFN! I don't get it??? I'm 18DPO and stil have high temps??? Whats going on???
I would test again in 2 days. If you still get BFN, I would go for a blood tests. 18+ high temps can also imply a corpus luteum cyst (it usually goes away on its own).

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks ladies. I really dont' understand I was very much expecting a BFP but who knows??? I'll give it til maybe Monday to test again like I said it has been a stressful month for me so maybe AF is just being funny either way it's okay with me. Thanks girls!!!

[MrsKinnison]

BFN! I don't get it??? I'm 18DPO and stil have high temps??? Whats going on???

I can't believe it!!! I really don't think your chart is annov, so maybe give it a couple days and test again?

southerner Welcome!!

[Tonysweetie]

It has defintly been werid today. Now all of sudden I'm having major watery CM and it's just flowing to the point where I keep thinking I'm starting AF. I keep having these dull cramps too. Do yout hink I just haven't O'd yet?? Like maybe I'm going to O now or I also hear that PG can cause increased CM too b/c usually I'm eithe rhaving creamy or dry. Even my creamy CM is more on the dry side but the past few days I'm having really heavy creamy or watery. I'm so sorry I'm being a pest and confusing I'm just so darn confused and here I thought DH and I were covered this month, lol. Anyways off to work I go....

[tlew12778]

I think your chart is biphasic. It certainly looks that way. Like I said, if no AF and no BFP soon, I would get checked for a cyst. A CL cyst forms when you O and the corpus luteum doesn't break down in a timely manner and gets trapped so to speak. It will keep on releasing progesterone so it will keep your temps up.

[Clattercote]

Tonysweetie - Unfortunately, and I feel like a broken record ;), I think this is a wait-n-see game. Everything you've described could be pg symptoms... or not. Your chart could indicate pg or it could indicate the corpus luteal cyst that tlew is talking about. (I would say, given your chart, that you've very probably O'd so I think we're looking at either pg OR the cyst - the biphasic pattern is just pretty evident)

On the other hand, your body may simply have not reached the necessary threshold of hormone level for it to be detected, and you could STILL be pg. (Triphasic temps are not always present in a pg, so the fact that your temp went slightly down today, and that you haven't seen another temp jump doesn't mean much.) There are women I know who didn't test positive for pg till well into their 3rd month of pg - they had blood work and u/s done instead to find out.

I can understand why you're confused - it is confusing, especially since the test was neg. Time will tell, but I know it's hard to wait.

P.S. About the sore BB's after O and how that didn't show up this time - I really think all other signs indicate O; our bodies don't necessarily respond the same way every month (as I've discovered over and over again :p )

[Tonysweetie]

Thank you Tlew and Clattercote! I really appriciate it a ton! I talked it over with DH I'm going to give AF another week to show and if she doesn't I'm gonna go see athe doc for a blood test. Thank you again girls I REALLY appriciate it!!!!

[Tonysweetie]

another temp. jump today....

[honeygirl]

Hi ladies, looks like I had a weird cycle. I've been spotting the last few days and today I had more than spotting, so it looks like I started AF. Which means this cycle was only 32 days while the last was 44. Is that possible? And the luteal phase was 6 days this time while before it was 14.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

I guess I could be happy to have a "normal" 30'ish day cycle, but I'm suspicious given my last 3 cycles.

What do you think, is it an annov cycle? We UDD today (miracle given AF), I figured I was safe.

[tlew12778]

honeygirl - I actually am not sure you o'ed either cycle. Last cycle (9/20) is better than this cycle though... it's just not a super strong O. I think the CL is too low. With this past cycle, I think you have a temp shift on CD29 but in hindsight that would make an LP virtually non-existent so I don't think it's a real temp shift. Sorry that I don't have more to add.

[honeygirl]

Since last night I haven't bled anymore. I'm thinking of adjusting my chart and putting it as "spotting" for yesterday instead of "light". This is so frustrating! My temp is higher again today, maybe I was just having a weird mid-cycle bleeding thing. I'll give it a few more hours and see what happens. I'm hoping that I o'ed before like they said since we UDD last night.

[Janey]

I have another question: Is this a thermal shift (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrshill)? I was 5/10 over the coverline yesterday, which seems pretty shifty to me, but on the other hand... Ovusoft did not say that I ovulated, so maybe I didn't. What do you think?

[tlew12778]

I would say probably but if OS is like FF, it will wait until you have 3 high temps before it will give you crosshairs. So you need another day's temp to confirm basically.

[Tonysweetie]

another negative today so I'm going to the doc, I'll let you girls know how it goes :)

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - Hmmm, looking at your all your charts, I'm going to suggest that you O'd around CD 29, with the bleeding you noticed being breakthrough bleeding with an O immediately following. (Breakthrough bleeding happens during long cycles, but the temps stay low - and a temp shift and an O appear shortly after, which I think is exactly what has happened in your case...) My reason for that is that your temps have stayed high the past three days, which counts as a darned good sustained thermal shift. So I would say you're really on CD 32 rather than CD 2. In this case, your coverline is at 97.8, and you're still on your Nov. cycle, rather than a new cycle. Make sense? Anytime you haven't seen a good thermal shift, it's probably wisest to consider that any bleeding you see is NOT a true AF but one of the other categories we have - so here, it's breakthrough bleeding. And now we'll get to see what your true LP length is!

I agree with tlew that you did not O in the Sept 20th cycle - what you saw there was likely annov. bleeding.

[Tonysweetie]

BFP BFP BFP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I took another equate today and at first it apeared negative went back later and a faint BFP! WHOO HOO!!! I think my O date was wrong b/c there was a few days this week that I didn't temp. at the same usual time due to work. I'm just worried about the super faint line that came up. I'm worried it could be evap. line. b/c I didn't see it until after the 10 minutes were up b/c I didn't want to disappoint myself. It's the same color as the horiztonal line just lighter. I think this is it ladies! YAY!!!!! I haven't officailly told DH yet I'm gonna wait for a blood + or a darker line. God BLess keep me in your thoughts and also my MIL is having a cancerous lump removed in the morning so think of her!!!! YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!

[FSUSammy]

Tonysweetie - Congrats on the BFP!

Sam

[Tonysweetie]

Thank ya!!!


Well girls I guess I'm a undergrad and leaving this thread now. I will be back after this little one is born!!! Thanks for all the help with charting!!! God BLess!!! :D

[Clattercote]

Tonysweetie - Congrats! (I'm not surprised!) - and prayers for your MIL.

[kemaji]

Tonysweetie -- Congrats on your BFP! Good thoughts for your MIL and family.

Updated to here.

[Tonysweetie]

Thank you ladies!!! I'm so giddy excited! lol. Thank you for all the thougths and prayers for my MIL today!!!!

[AHammer]

congrats, tonysweetie! very happy for you, and thinking of you MIL.

[MrsKinnison]

CM Question I have yet another question about CM. The only time I ever see EWCM is after PDD w/a condom so I want to make sure that it really is CM and not just arousal fluid. It definately meets all the qualities of EWCM, and I only see it during my fertile time, but thats also the only time we use condoms. I don't see it everytime we use condoms, so I think it really is EWCM. I don't really have much CM at all usually, so this is still a tougher part of charting for me. This much has been even less CM, but I've had a cold so I think the cold meds are responsible for that. Thanks as always for your help!!!!

Tonysweetie Congratulations on your BFP!!!

[SQ2]

Congratulations, Tonysweetie! :D

[kanga1622]

Congratulations, Tonysweetie! :):D

Looks like I have a TTC update: DH and I are taking our belated Honeymoon at the beginning of March 2006 and DH has tentatively decided that we can "see what happens" while we are in Vegas! Hopefully that means we are at the right time in my cycle so it can be a fun trip. ;)

MrsKinnison It can be tough to see EWCM for some women. I have a question for you though - when you see EWCM, is that with internal checking or just on the TP? For my first few cycles I didn't get EWCM to show up on TP ever. I would put in your charting notes when you see EWCM after PDD and keep track if you ever have EWCM without PDD. Cold meds can definately dry you up so that could be why you are having trouble finding CM.

[angelraven]

Congrats Tonysweetie!

[dana92504]

CONGRATS tonysweetie!!:D

[kissmary]

Tonysweetie, Congratulations!! :)

MrsKinnison, if you have trouble seeing EWCM, the Art of Natural Family Planning says to check right after a bowel movement. They also say to drink more water and take a Vitamin A supplement if you're not getting enough.

[FSUSammy]

kanga1622--I read your post about you guys going to Vegas in March. We just bought our tickets to go in February for DH's 30th birthday. Have you guys decided which hotel you'll be staying at?


AF has officially left and last night I would have normally started my new pill pack but I didn't. I need to reread some of the chapters in TCOYF regarding the coverline because I can't quite remember when I draw that.

Sam

[ktina0803]

I want to join. I am currently on my first cycle off of BCB. I LOVE IT!!

screen name: ktina0803
Real name: Kristina(25)
DH's name: Cory (25)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 08/09/03
Started charting: 11/17/05
TTC: not for a long time

I am with every one that is having a hard time with the CV. Mine is all over the place. I am assuming that is because I just went off the BCB.

Tonyssweety: Congrats

[honeygirl]

I am learning more each cycle about this charting thing. :) So, it looks like the last two cycles FF o'ed me early, not enough of a temp shift. Should I over ride the date(s) or leave it alone? I will know in the future to look for higher temps before counting my DPO (for the rules). I'm still not sure about all the spotting I keep having, I'm keeping records and will let my DR know next appt. I'm just nervous about bleeding in general since I already had one surgery to remove fibroids (and bleeding was the symptom that lead us that way).

I'm not too worried about our UDD on saturday, since I was 2DPO (which is safe right b/c the egg would only survive 24hrs?) and probably not very sperm friendly with the spotting (sorry probably TMI).

I REALLY appreciate this thread. Honestly, I don't think I could chart w/out it. I wish there was some way I could thank you all. I'd like to send big hugs or cookies or something. :)

[M&M614]

Hi all! I was referred here by Dana. I just started charting and am having some trouble with my cycles. She said y'all are great.

screen name: M&M614
Real name: Melissa(24)
DH's name: Mark (27)
Occupation: Research Analyst
Married: 06/14/03
Started charting: sometime this year... can't remember
TTC: March

So... Last cycle was annov (113 days). It was the 2nd cycle off bcp. 1st cycle off was normal (29 days). It doesn't look like I've ovluated yet this cycle. What do you guys think?

Thanks
Melissa

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/df46b

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - Safest thing, of course, is the more conservative 3 days because we can only predict when O likely occurred, not exactly when (you can only know exactly via ultrasound). Here is where Art of NFP rules help you over TCOYF, though - because you have a full thermal shift, probably accompanied by dry up of CM (we can't know that absolutely for sure because of the spotting, but it's probable) - so you could use rule K in the Art of NFP which states that 2 days of full thermal shift accompanied by 2-3 days of dry up, means you're good to go. So I'd say that yeah, you're very likely fine with UDD 2 DPO. (CAUTION to other readers: if you don't get the difference between full, strong, and overall thermal shifts, then do NOT use this rule. Follow TCOYF, see the first page of this post, or read the Art of NFP.)

As for spotting - yes, I think you're right to be concerned - I'd probably get it checked out.

(Thanks for the virtual cookies :D!)

Welcome to all the newbies - A couple of you asked about temping when you're new to charting - My recommendation is when you first start charting, take and record your temp, but don't try to decipher whether you have had a temp shift every day. You'll just drive yourself crazy, because the point is a temperature pattern, not the individual temps. Instead, take note of your CM and make meticulous observations - you should be able to see your body go from less fertile to most fertile and then back to less fertile again. Once you've started seeing the less fertile stuff again, THEN go back to the temperature chart and see if you can find a pattern. And feel free to ask us for opinions as well. :)

Your temps will be all over the place, especially after BCP - and don't worry, it will begin to make sense, especially after you complete one full chart!


MrsKinnison - I'd note in your chart that it could be EWCM or arousal fluid/SR (sperm residue) - but if you don't see it in patches (like over 3-5 consecutive days), I'd lean more toward arousal fluid or SR than EW. There is an old test that suggests EWCM is not water soluble and sinks to the bottom of a glass of water, or in the toilet - while SR and arousal fluid becomes foamy when you try to examine it. Maybe that would help?

M&M614 - I think you're right - you haven't O'd yet. You had a nice patch of fertile CM, but I'd think you're gearing up for another patch of CM. The reason is because there's no discernible temp shift yet. I know your FF chart from last cycle isn't complete, but did you keep track of temps on your own at all? One thing to do is to look at how high the post-O temps were in that cycle and you'll get a vague idea of where they should likely be this cycle.

[kanga1622]

FSUSammy We have reservations at the Orleans for 5 nights at $70 a night. DH picked the hotel but they were given excellent reviews at www.lvol.com and the trip reports from people that have stayed there recently seemed great. They also have a movie theater, bowling alley, and arena attached to the hotel which we thought might be nice after walking down the strip all day.

[M&M614]

M&M614 - I think you're right - you haven't O'd yet. You had a nice patch of fertile CM, but I'd think you're gearing up for another patch of CM. The reason is because there's no discernible temp shift yet. I know your FF chart from last cycle isn't complete, but did you keep track of temps on your own at all? One thing to do is to look at how high the post-O temps were in that cycle and you'll get a vague idea of where they should likely be this cycle.[/QUOTE]

I didn't keep temps for all of the cycle. I got frustrated and then we evacuated from Hurricane Rita (which messed up my times) and so I quit. It was more than likely an annov cycle. I took Provera to make AF come (I should have mentioned that). I sure hope I O this cycle!

Thanks!
Melissa

[tippy]

Congrats, Tonysweetie!

[ADSigMel]

Well, I guess the move to the new thread would explain why I haven't been getting updates, huh?

I'm safely and thoroughly married, back from the honeymoon, and done taking my fate in my hands. If you check my chart, you'll see that I didn't so much as peek at a temperature for a full three weeks, but I'm sorta back on track now. I'm just hoping I didn't O during those three weeks (with the wedding stress, I doubt it). From the low temp level right now, I don't think I'm pg, but I'll take an HPT eventually, just to be sure.

Threadmistress, I noticed mistakes in my info. I'm 22 now, not 21. And I started charting in March 2005, not March 2004.

P.S. March 2004 was 9 months ago. I'm only on cycle 5. That's sooo messed up. :mad: Back to the fertility and nutrition book, I guess.

[lml41981]

Delurking...Tonysweetie...heard the news. Congrats. Are you sure you were charting to avoid, though? I know you had been hoping that you would get pregnant for awhile. Charting is really reliable if done correctly...I'd hate to see the stats messed up showing you as an anti-grad if you were really charting to conceive but just in the wrong thread. :)

***

eta: I wish I could get back to charting, but I don't trust LAM/NFP right now. I'm nursing exclusively, but DD sleeps through some nights and not through others. My hormones are nowhere near stable enough to be something I could trust. So, for now it is the mini-pill for me. :(

[Tonysweetie]

Thanks girls! I'm still causiously excited since I haven't had a blood test done yet. Yes to answer soem questions I was charting to avoid DH and I did not have UDD until after O so that means I got PG off withdrawl method. SO I'm a proven fact it doesn't work, hehe. MIL did well, she is at home and the cancer did not spread through her lymph nodes so she is home after surgery! YAY!

[lml41981]

If you are indeed pg (didn't you say you had a BFN today?), then clearly you did not UDD after O. The egg only lives 24 hours and you can't get pg without a viable egg. That means you broke at least one of the rules. Charting works if you follow the rules. You are not proof that it "just doesn't work." You're proof that breaking rules could get a person pg (if you are, indeed, pg).

I'd urge you to consider joining the seeing what happens thread if this is not it for you. To be honest, it seems that you have been way too excited about potential pregnancies to have been TTA. I know when I was TTA and broke rules, I was sweating bullets until AF arrived...not praying for a BFP and for sticky vibes.

eta: Did you mean you're proof that charting doesn't work or that withdrawal doesn't work? Cause it sounds like you meant you're proof that charting doesn't work. And that's just not true.

[Tonysweetie]

If you are indeed pg (didn't you say you had a BFN today?), then clearly you did not UDD after O. The egg only lives 24 hours and you can't get pg without a viable egg. That means you broke at least one of the rules. Charting works if you follow the rules. You are not proof that it "just doesn't work." You're proof that breaking rules could get a person pg (if you are, indeed, pg).

I'd urge you to consider joining the seeing what happens thread if this is not it for you. To be honest, it seems that you have been way too excited about potential pregnancies to have been TTA. I know when I was TTA and broke rules, I was sweating bullets until AF arrived...not praying for a BFP and for sticky vibes.

eta: Did you mean you're proof that charting doesn't work or that withdrawal doesn't work? Cause it sounds like you meant you're proof that charting doesn't work. And that's just not true.

That withdrawl doesn't work, that is what we used I promise! We didnt' have UDD until after O which wasn't til about 5 days after.

[lml41981]

Oops sorry, then. I thought you meant that you were proof that charting didn't work.

If you UDD 5 days after O, though, then you probably aren't pg. The egg only lives for 24 hours. The other possibility is that you relied on FF to tell you your O date and FF pegged it wrong. Did you discard any bad temps or did you do something that may have affected your temp and forget to discard it?

Give some thought to joining the seeing what happens thread if you aren't fully TTA, though. It sounds like pregnancy is something you are really wanting, so it isn't fair to mess up the stats if it is something you're wanting (or even something you'd just be ok with). I should have joined the seeing what happens thread on WC in January, but I hadn't gotten around to it by the time I got my BFP. Fortunately, they didn't list me as a grad or an anti-grad, they just removed me from the membership list... so I didn't mess up the stats.

[Tonysweetie]

FF could have pegged my O date wrong, wouldn't surprise me :rolleyes: but regardless if FF called my O date wrong AF is wayyyy late, and I don't feel her showing anytime soon. My temps are still up too. Yes, I plan joining seeing what happens, arleady been thinking about it. I joined TTA fully wanting to avoid but something changed with DH and I and are feelings towards TTA. Were in the seeing what happens stage. Anyways I guess regardless this is my last post gals. Thanks for all the help, I'll be moving on into August 2006 mommies or the seeing what happens. God Bless!!!

[lawgirl4]

okay. first of all, I seem to never get any CC notification emails anymore, even though I am subscribed to many threads! Annoying!

tonysweetie, I kind of get what lml41981 is trying to say. Without coming across as a mean person, I think what she's saying (and what I know I, personally, have been feeling) is that you seem to have been very interested/excited in "seeing what happens" rather than in learning how to chart to avoid. And since this is a thread for people who are actively looking to avoid pregnancy, it seems kind of odd (and dare I say annoying?) to have someone come on cycle after cycle with "I might be PG this time!!" posts. Again, I am not saying this to be mean or anything - but like lml41981, it seems to me that it probably makes more sense for you to join one of the TTC-related threads (even if you and your DH aren't actively TTC - since it seems quite apparent that you are looking to get PG on some level right now!) :)

********************************

and on that note, this will likely be my last cycle in this thread as we are moving on to TTC in January... we're going to India next week and I will probably ovulate next in mid-January - so we'll be trying to catch that egg!

thanks to this thread and so many of you (tlew and clattercote immediately come to mind - and kemaji, for moving this thread over here from WC) I am hoping we'll be able to get PG in the first few months of trying. (who am I kidding! first month of trying!!! ;) )

thanks again for everyone's help!!

[honeygirl]

Oops sorry, then. I thought you meant that you were proof that charting didn't work.

If you UDD 5 days after O, though, then you probably aren't pg. The egg only lives for 24 hours. The other possibility is that you relied on FF to tell you your O date and FF pegged it wrong. Did you discard any bad temps or did you do something that may have affected your temp and forget to discard it?

Give some thought to joining the seeing what happens thread if you aren't fully TTA, though. It sounds like pregnancy is something you are really wanting, so it isn't fair to mess up the stats if it is something you're wanting (or even something you'd just be ok with). I should have joined the seeing what happens thread on WC in January, but I hadn't gotten around to it by the time I got my BFP. Fortunately, they didn't list me as a grad or an anti-grad, they just removed me from the membership list... so I didn't mess up the stats.

LML -I think your last few posts have been kind of harsh. Tonysweetie has been here for a couple cycles and yes, she did follow the rules. She admits that doing the withdrawl method was their PDD, and that she knew the risks of that. I don't think the stats really matter that much, and she probably won't be listed as an anti-grad or whatever. We all know that she got pregnant (if she's pregnant) from risky PDD, not from charting.

IMO you haven't been around enough lately to be passing on such judgements. Give her a break.

-Anne

ETA - I crossposted with Lawgirl. She said it nicer than I did. I guess I was more blunt. I too am a new charter (like Tonysweetie) and I'd hate to be condemmed if I mess up the rules (which I accidentially did this cycle). That and she has a right to be here if she wants to, no one should dictate which thread she belongs in!

[Tonysweetie]

I'm sorry lawgirl if I annoyed you or anyone else in here. I really wanted to TTA when I joined but things changed last cycle (my first cycle charting and in here) and we thought we'd give it another shot but just didn't quite work out for us I guess. Again, very sorry if I offended, annoyed, or messed up stats in here. I feel horriable now :( God Bless! See you girls on the other side someday :)


~ Thanks Honeygirl :) I guess I didn't realize I was bothering anyone in here. It's just hard being a new charter and having a mess up I was just looking for support plus whether TTA, TTC, or seeing what happens and the possiability of a PG how could I not be excited! Yes, scary but still exciting none-the-less ya know? Ohwell it's okay I'm heading over to the other threads anyways but not because I feel I offended anyone but now I feel pretty bad about it that it's putting tears in my eyes.

Again VERY sorry!!!!!

[southerner]

Tonysweetie, no need for tears, really.

After the recent discussion(s) in this thread, I'm realizing I don't know "the rules" of this thread. Where/what are they?

Off to check the abbreviation thread (UDD, NFP, etc.) Gosh, this is overwhelming, I have so much to learn :confused:

[lml41981]

Yes, honegirl, I agree that I was harsh. I apologized for that...I misunderstood her comment about being proof that it didn't work. I thought she meant she was proof that charting didn't work and she clarified that she meant she was proof that withdrawal didn't work.

FWIW, the stats are important to some people. They are what got my DH to have an open mind about charting. And I'm not scolding anyone for breaking rules. Hell, I did it (just preferred to call it "being risky"). I am also not telling anyone what thread she may participate in...but do you not agree that if there's a thread that may be a better fit, there's no harm in mentioning it? That doesn't mean the person can't come here to ask questions. I know TTCers who charted and would ask CTAers questions because it was pretty well known that the CTAers at the time were very knowledgeable. Being a member of one thread doesn't mean you can't recognize the wisdom of another group. After all, who would know the material better than those using it to avoid pregnancy. I'd say they have a vested interest in knowing what they're doing. ;)

[lml41981]

Tonysweetie, no need for tears, really.

After the recent discussion(s) in this thread, I'm realizing I don't know "the rules" of this thread. Where/what are they?

Off to check the abbreviation thread (UDD, NFP, etc.) Gosh, this is overwhelming, I have so much to learn :confused:
Not rules of the thread. Rules of charting.

UDD = unprotected deed doing
NFP = Natural Family Planning
LAM = Lactation Awareness Method (I believe I used that one earlier)

[Janey]

Southerner, there is a post on 'The Rules' for charting to avoid pregnancy here (http://www.constantchatter.com/showpost.php?p=341744&postcount=6)... but frankly I think it's pretty hard to understand the rules just from reading that post without having any other background. The TCOYF book made them much easier to understand (and there are pictures which also helps :p). I don't think one needs to buy the book, however... picking it up at the library & reading through it should be enough.

ETA - Tonyssweetie, glad to hear that your MIL will be OK!

[honeygirl]

LML - Sorry about the drama, I got a little carried away there. I've been following Tonysweetie here, in waiting and in her journal. So I knew that she did go to "seeing what happens" but they decided to come back here to TTA. Then this cycle happened. So I knew she was already aware of the other FP groups, and figured she knew what was best for her.

As for the stats, I see what your saying (convincing DH), but really I don't know if a CC thread should be responsible for that. I think the books or outside literature would be more appropriate. Afterall, we aren't exactly a scientific experimental group. LOL. :)

Anyway, I am sorry I got so blunt. This is usually a controversy free-thread and I don't want to contribute to anything negative.

A round of cyber cookies (or a glass of wine) for all!

[lml41981]

As for the stats, I see what your saying (convincing DH), but really I don't know if a CC thread should be responsible for that. I think the books or outside literature would be more appropriate. Afterall, we aren't exactly a scientific experimental group. LOL. :)
Oh, I know, but I wasn't knowledgeable about it till I read the WC thread. I had heard of rhythm method, but not really this. DH was skeptical, but the non-scientific approach of, "Look...it has worked for all these people" was apparently enough. to get him to agree to at least buy the book. ;)

[granada]

Oh, I know, but I wasn't knowledgeable about it till I read the WC thread. I had heard of rhythm method, but not really this. DH was skeptical, but the non-scientific approach of, "Look...it has worked for all these people" was apparently enough. to get him to agree to at least buy the book. ;)

This was actually the case with my DH, too. He was very skeptical, but after reading the book and telling him about this thread, I could explain it in a more "scientific" way. Of course, now whenever I start a sentence with, "Well, I read on CC..." he never knows what I'm going to be suggesting. :D

[tlew12778]

http://www.ronaldreagan.com/ubb/graemlins/popcorn.gif

I've always wanted to use that smiley ;). Look at all the action that happens while I'm asleep!

OK well, as far as I'm concerned, I think the basic rule for being a member of this thread is when our first reaction to a BFP would be something along the lines of "sh!t!" or some other profanity. Then whether or not we are ok with it afterwards, makes no difference really. I think that ALL of us here have to be prepared on some level for an oops. I mean, fact of the matter is that there have been some anti-grads due to condom failure or missed O date. That doesn't mean that charting doesn't work... simply that it's not 100%.