Charting-to-Avoid Volume 2

[honeygirl]

This is my first cycle off of BCP, and I have NO sign of ovulation-- I'm on CD22. Here's my chart: Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/emilyza)

Is this typical?

Having a late O or anovulatory cycle is pretty normal when you first get off BCP. My first cycle of BCP was anovulatory (and 40 days).

However, looking at your chart if you took out CD8's temp then a shift can be seen between CD15 and CD19. It is possible you O'd around that time. Time will tell.

[stevesbabygirl]

Aw man, I'm so bummed! Yesterday, I had a temp spike, indicative of a potential O, but I had to take my temp 2 hours earlier today, so now my chart is all messed up! I did have stretchy EWCM today though, yay!

[Dizzy]

I've noticed that Ovusoft and FF call my "O" on different days. Does this happen to anyone else? Why would they be different if I'm plugging in the same info to both?

[southerner]

Emily, I'm not convinced you didn't O on one of the days you didn't temp.

[EmilyZA]

I did temp those days, but I temped 2 hours later than normal, so that's why I discarded them.

[southerner]

Emily, Disclaimer: I am very new to this as well. What happens to your chart if you put those temps. back in? I don't know much about when to discard temps., I haven't needed to do that yet.

ryan'sgirl, good question :confused:

[honeygirl]

I did temp those days, but I temped 2 hours later than normal, so that's why I discarded them.

What were the temps?

ETA: Crossposted with southerner (great minds think alike :) )

[EmilyZA]

I originally had those temps in, but I had no EWCM, so I discarded them.

My temp was 98.4 each day, and like I said, I took my temp two hours to two and a half hours late. I was travelling during that time too, but not to a different time zone.

[southerner]

Emily, I'm thinking you did O :confused:

[EmilyZA]

I could have sworn that in TCOYF, she said that temps rise about a half a degree for every hour you sleep in. Also, if that's the case, then I have an extremely short luteal phase-- correct?

[honeygirl]

I could have sworn that in TCOYF, she said that temps rise about a half a degree for every hour you sleep in. Also, if that's the case, then I have an extremely short luteal phase-- correct?

Luteal phase is the time from O to AF.

Temps rise 1/10 for every 1/2 hour. So your temps would be between 97.9 and 98 for those days (approx). I think you o'd.

[southerner]

Emily, It's still to early to tell the length of your LP. You'll know that when AF arrives.

eta: winking at honeygirl, we did it again :)

[EmilyZA]

Okay, I'm totally confused. My temps have gone back to normal (97s) so I thought that meant a short luteal phase. Wouldn't my temps stay elevated or anything?

I'm sorry to be such a pain in the butt.

[southerner]

Emily, Taking a wild stab at this here. Your temps have still stayed above the first half of your cycle (pre O) temps. I'm going to estimate that your coverline should be 97.1-97.3 and your temps. haven't dipped below that. Go put those temps from CD16-18 in and see what happens. You're not being a pain in the butt, but I feel that same way sometimes :o

[honeygirl]

Emily - I agree about putting in the temps, but put them at the adjusted amounts (1/10 off for each 1/2 hour).

[Dizzy]

I just had to share this:

A friend of mine just found out she is pregnant. She just had a baby who is now only 7 months old! Her and her husband are actually very excited, so this isn't a bad thing...I just had to share what she said. She told me that she was very confused about how she got pregnant because "she always ovulates on the 14th day of her cycle". I think this is funny because, obviously, she is not on birth control and she is also breastfeeding, which from what I understand can affect your chart.

If she had only charted, she may have been forwarned of when her O might happen and realized that it doesn't always happen on the Day 14!

[tlew12778]

Kemaji, here are my updated stats for the new thread:

Real name: Tiffany (28)
FH's name: Carlo (31)
Occupation: job-hunting (me), MD (him)
Married (date of or date planned): April 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): October 2004
TTC: 2007?

[kemaji]

ryansgirl -- Both FF and Ovusoft can frequently have different interpretations of the information you enter into them, which is why you never ever want to rely on them as to when to call O. My current chart is an excellent example. I know I O'd around CD 15 - 16, but I discarded one temp due to drinking the night before and didn't hear my alarm the next night, Ovusoft doesn't think I've O'd despite a temp shift and a CM dry up. Because I don't have the temp information for the crucial days, I'd put my coverline at either 97.5 or 97.6, which is right in line with my past history.

[kemaji]

Emily -- Based on the information you have provided, it sounds like you may have O'd, but I'd like to see today's temp to see if it has gone back up.

[kemaji]

Since we're over 1,000 posts, I'll try and get a new thread up and running today! There's nothing like a good excuse for some old fashioned procrastination on a Friday. :)

[EmilyZA]

I added the temps back into my chart, but I never adjusted them... I'll do that tonight.

[Clattercote]

ryansgirl - Plus, with pg and bfing, all bets are off. You cannot rely on the fact that just because pre-pg, you Od on CD 14, post pg, you still do. It just really changes your body - CM will possibly look different; pre-O and post-O temps may be in a different range than they were before pg. For pretty much all women, it's very difficult to determine the start of the fertile phase with the first cycle after pg (which may be several months after labor especially if you breastfeed completely). And then it takes a couple of cycles for the body to regulate itself to regular cycles.

[Dizzy]

Kemaji: Thanks for the explanation and your expertise! I guess things become clearer and clearer the longer I chart.

Clattercote: I'm so glad you responded with that info! I *thought* things were generally different after pregnancy and BFing, which is why I found it kind of funny that she was so confused. On the flip side, life seems so unfair sometimes...she's blissfully enjoying a new baby and then accidentally ends up with another one on the way, while I know there are those out there (my cousin being one of them) who have been desperately trying for years...

Can I post a general question to all? Is that what QOTD is?
Anyway, please don't feel pressured to answer, but I was just wondering...

Is anybody who will someday Chart to Conceive worried about infertility? Am I crazy to be concerned about IF without having any grounds for concern?

[FSUSammy]

ryansgirl - I'm only on cycle #3 so right now I think its too soon to worry about infertility. It does worry me when it seems to take so long to O thought. I'm hoping to have my cycles to a somewhat normal state by this fall (crossing fingers) and then hopefully we'll start TTC. But in the end my body will tell me what I can or cannot do AND when!

[tlew12778]

Is anybody who will someday Chart to Conceive worried about infertility? Am I crazy to be concerned about IF without having any grounds for concern?
Yup, but with just cause. BC of charting I found out I had PCOS. So one gyno said to try for 6 months and if we didn't conceive naturally, it'd be clomid for me. My regular gyno said that as soon as we want to TTC, she will put me on clomid (although that seems a bit drastic... I'd like to try for at least 3-6 months considering my cycles are pretty regular right now).

[stevesbabygirl]

Would anyone be willing to take a glance at my chart? My temps have kind of been all over the place the last few days, though I was on a fantastic path beforehand. I checked my CM this morning and found nothing, but it's still early, so anything could happen later on I guess. I just want to have an idea of what's going on.

[Janey]

Those look like pretty tight temps to me; not all over the place! Did you check multiple times during the day for CM yesterday? What was today's temp? You're right; it's still early -- this could be a "slow rise." Wait-n-see. :)

Is anybody who will someday Chart to Conceive worried about infertility? Am I crazy to be concerned about IF without having any grounds for concern?[/B]
I don't think you're crazy, but I'm not sure groundless worrying is doing you much good. :) I am worried, but like Tiffany, I have PCOS which gives me grounds for concern. With the way things have been going, however, I'm seeing fairly clear Ovulation, so I'm not nearly as worried as I would be without charting!

[Clattercote]

stevesbabygirl - I think your chart is actually looking pretty good. The 97.7 temp a few days ago may just be the odd temp out, and it will be easy to use the thumb rule if you have continued elevated temps. In my charts, I often have an elevated temp 3-4 days before O - it's known as a pre-shift spike. It's a fairly reliable indicator that O is on its way, but of course, I never know exactly how many days away - sometimes 3, sometimes 5. Once you've charted several charts, you'll be able to know if you, too, have pre-shift spikes. It's too early to tell, but your 97.8 temp today might be the start of a temp shift, especially if your suspected dry up today continues for a few days, and your temps stay in an elevated position. But at the moment, it's a wait-n-see game - If indeed the 97.8 temp is the start of a shift, you would only have just O'd sometime in the past 24 hours.

QOTD - I do worry about infertility, especially because I've had very short LPs (once I had a 4 day LP) - and I know that can be a cause of m/c. But I'm taking progesterone cream now, and I'm continuing to monitor that with my doc. She's already given me instructions on how to take the progesterone cream should I find myself pg. (Though I should say, I'm thinking of going off the progesterone cream at some point and seeing if changes in diet, etc. might have an effect) - so I have high hopes that infertility won't be an issue.

[dpangel33]

QOTD: Being young I used to never think about infertility but then I mc'd last Aug and it was then I began to doubt whether or not something was wrong with me. My Dr tried to reassure me that I was young and healthy, but now I feel like I have to wait forever until we're ready to TTC to see if there really are any problems. I do plan to chart at least a year before TTC just to make sure I O and have long enough LP's, but man it's so hard waiting for the answers I want now.

[stevesbabygirl]

Thank you ladies :D!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. I'm on CD 31 and I "think" I might have had a temp shift. I'll know for sure tomorrow because if its still high that would be 3 days of consecutive High temps. Haven't had any drying up of CM though.

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - I feel pretty wary about this chart - In a very technical sense, there's a temp shift there, but your supposed post-shift temps are still so low that I wouldn't want to call it a shift, plus, like you say, it isn't combined with a dry up of CM. My advice is to look for something more in the temp range of the post-O shift in the cycle before this one (that is, above at least 97.3, if not higher). For most people, the low temps and the higher temps tend to be in about the same range each cycle. The present very low temps, combined with the lack of dry up, suggests to me that you haven't O'd yet. With this kind of chart, I'd be inclined to use Art of NFP temp shift rules, rather than TCOYF, because Art of NFP requires at least 4/10ths degree difference between the highest of the low set of temps by the end of the third day of the higher range of temps. In this chart, then, if we were to assume that the last couple days do represent a temp shift, we'd say that the highest among your lower temps is 97.0, which means that you'd have to have at least one temp of 97.4 or higher. I really think that would be the safest thing in terms of TTA.

[raven077]

Good morning ladies,
Ok.. I am about to start my first chart and I have several questions. Please bear in mind that this I am coming off my last cycle of BCP.

1. Do you start the new chart on the first day of some red or all red period? I started spotting yesterday and was figuring today to be all red, however, when I took my temp this morning, it was 98.2 (or is that just b/c I'm still on "hormones?). When I went to the bathroom, I noticed a little red, but still mostly brownish. To me, that would indicate that I'm still in the last cycle?

2. My other problem is that I have pretty bad back problems and because of such, I am a pretty light sleeper. I toss and turn a lot and I'm never sure how "consecutive" my hours of sleep are. As I write this, it's 5 am. DH usually falls asleep in front of the tv and I usually wake up briefly when he comes to bed, usually around 4. Today it was 4:30 so I took my temp at that point since I knew that my alarm would go off at 7, thus being less than three hours of consecutive sleep. Would this be the right thing to do? Would it affect the charting since it's earlier, rather than later?

Ok, now that I've gotten these questions off my mind, hopefully the Tylenol wll kick in and I can get two more hours of sleep. Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide. :confused: and sleepy.

[chinadoll]

2. My other problem is that I have pretty bad back problems and because of such, I am a pretty light sleeper. I toss and turn a lot and I'm never sure how "consecutive" my hours of sleep are. As I write this, it's 5 am. DH usually falls asleep in front of the tv and I usually wake up briefly when he comes to bed, usually around 4. Today it was 4:30 so I took my temp at that point since I knew that my alarm would go off at 7, thus being less than three hours of consecutive sleep. Would this be the right thing to do? Would it affect the charting since it's earlier, rather than later?
I'm not a good sleeper either. I have narcolepsy, which makes me sleepy at the wrong times. My body loves to fall asleep but I rarely sleep more than a few hours without waking up, even when I'm taking my meds. I've discovered though, that even if I've been restless it doesn't affect my temperatures THAT much. I usually wake up for the last time and get up between 5:15 and 6:15 and take my temp then. But sometimes I get up earlier and just temp then, and it doesn't really seem to affect the overall pattern. But different bodies work differently, so you'll just have to watch how your chart develops. That's one reason I like Ovusoft a lot, because it will adjust your chart according to the time you temped, within a 90 minute span (i think). My temps go up pretty consistently 0.1 per half hour, but you can change the default setting once you're more familiar with how your body works.

I'd enter anything reddish-brown as spotting (which means still the previous cycle), and when it turns all red then I'd consider that CD1.

[FSUSammy]

Clattercote - Thanks for looking at my chart. Today's temp was 97.6. Do you think its safe to assume O?

[FSUSammy]

raven077 -

1) To me I consider it CD 1 when I see ANY red. Don't worry about your temps during AF because they can get kinda crazy.

2) My DH does that a lot on the weekend. I make note of a disturbance on my chart just in case I'm questioning a temp. I notice that if I don't get 3 consecutive hours of sleep my temp will be higher than normal. Just make note of it on your chart everytime this happens. If it happens regulary then it shouldn't affect your chart at all.

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - If it were my chart, I'd probably be either 1) starting the 3 day count today, with the 97.6 temp; or 2) waiting at least an extra day to make sure that the temps stay more in the 97.6 range. But the fact that you haven't seen dry up also concerns me - I'd want to wait for at least four days of dry up.... Sorry - I think this is still a wait-n-see.

Raven - ITA with Chinadoll and FSUSammy - what you end up needing to do in this case will depend on how your body is affected by restlessness. I tend to believe that an overall consistency is more important(taking your temp at the same time each day regardless of how much sleep or what quality of sleep), but some people really need three hours of sleep period. I'd start out charting at the most consistent time possible and see what happens - if you end up being able to discern a temp pattern that's the important thing. ETA: CD1 starts on the first day you see any red.

[kemaji]

I've started the third Charting-to-Avoid thread! Please come and join me HERE (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=17140)!

[FSUSammy]

Clattercote - thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely do that. I'm still not comfortable with UDD so I'm basically only judging the temp shift more for being able to draw my coverline than to UDD. Yesterday my CM was more sticky than it was creamy so I "think" my body is trying to dry up. We'll see. Thank again!!!

[southerner]

kemaji, you might want to PM a mod and have them lock this thread

[flygirl]

This thread is CLOSED.
Please join us in Charting to Avoid: Volume 3 (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=17140)