Charting-to-Avoid Volume 2

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy -

Actually, I would suggest that you hold off for a few days on counting today as CD1 until you know what kind of bleeding episode this is - the reason is because this could be breakthrough bleeding, and not the end of an annovulatory cycle. Breakthrough bleeding comes in the middle of a long cycle (which yours counts as...) and is immediately (2-3 days after end of supposed AF) followed with fertile CM and a sharp temp rise. Annov cycles go back to low and stay low for several days. So if this is a breakthrough bleeding cycle, you would continue charting on the same chart (just change the numbers on a second charting page to CD 41, 42, 43, etc.) If this is an annov cycle you would indeed start with a second chart.

FWIW, I do think that this is likely an annov cycle, but there's no way to be sure until after AF ends and you see fertile CM or you don't.

As Kemaji said, be sure to use protection through the next cycle, or at least till you see a sustained temp shift.

[FSUSammy]

Clattercote - thanks for the info. I definitlely won't count it as CD #1 just yet. Oh and not to worry we won't be doing UDD until I've had 3 cycles that I can tell exactly where I've O'd just because we don't want to get PG right now.

Sam

[AHammer]

DH and I have finally gotten into UDDing since I've been charting for almost three full cycles and my pattern is pretty consistent. All three cycles I've O'd on CD 23! We're still being extra cautious and only UDDing WAY before O is expected and more than enough days after confirmed O. Charting is so cool!!!

Amy

[honeygirl]

DH and I have finally gotten into UDDing since I've been charting for almost three full cycles and my pattern is pretty consistent. All three cycles I've O'd on CD 23! We're still being extra cautious and only UDDing WAY before O is expected and more than enough days after confirmed O. Charting is so cool!!!

Amy

Be careful with this, we did the same thing this cycle (after 3 cycles) and ended up O'ing MUCH earlier this time. So if you are UDD be very careful with the EWCM, not just the dates. KWIM?

[candy corn]

Hi everybody!

I know I've been quiet since I joined, but I'm now on CD 20 of my first chart - I've just started seeing EWCM, so obviously I'm very excited!! I am trying to learn how to add my FF chart on here, so hopefully this will work:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/108b75

if this doesn't work, can somebody help me?

thanks!!!

[AHammer]

Be careful with this, we did the same thing this cycle (after 3 cycles) and ended up O'ing MUCH earlier this time. So if you are UDD be very careful with the EWCM, not just the dates. KWIM?

Yeah, totally! I guess I didn't imply that, but I meant to :) We're in such a cautious phase we take EVERYTHING into account, and this past month if I was anything but dry or sticky, no UDD for us :)

[Clattercote]

candycorn - The chart link works! If you want to add it to your siggy, just click on User CP at the top of your webpage and there'll be a space to add the web address.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[dana92504]

Thanks! I expect AF to show up tonight or tomorrow morning. I'm going to try and buy a BD thermometer at lunch. I started going through TCOYF - and I signed up on FF (but haven't use it yet) - so, where do I start? I will count the first day of AF as CD 1. I guess then I start temping tomorrow morning before I get out of bed? I am one of those that has the alarm go off but keeps hitting snooze - do I need to try and avoid the snozze button?

I know these are all real newbie questions - but there's a lot of info and I am just trying to follow along - thanks~!

hey i just wanted to say (delayed) welcome!!!! :D

what i did that really helped when i first started charting was went through the first few pages of 'this thread' (well when it was on the old site) and used that as a basics to get started (but still used protection of course!). then once i kind of had the hang of just taking my temp, i sat down and read TCOYF and kept visiting this thread and asking questions. i feel like i'm just now getting the hang of things (i started about 5 months ago)....

as far as taking the temp thing goes: i always set my alarm for 5am (even on the weekends). when it goes off, i half asleep take my temp. i usually fall back asleep while the bbt is 'thinking', but the beep wakes me up. to me, this is kind of like hitting a mini snooze. on the weekends i just go back to sleep....

[Reenie]

Welcome to RobynScott! :)

Charting is making me question periods, something I thought I had down for the last, oh, 14 years or so. :rolleyes: :o

Two period questions:
1) Even if you have brown flow that is light (as in need for coverage, not color) for five days, it still doesn't count as CD 1 until there is red blood? Is this "normal" (knowing that "normal" is subjective)?
2) Is there such a thing as EWCM mixed in with menstrual fluid? Mine has seemed like that on the TP for a day or two in this period and I also noted it in the last one...

My FF VIP trial expired, so I'm using the free version, and I'm trying the Ovusoft trial, too, which I sort of prefer to the FF, so I might order that...

ETA: I have been a little sqeamish about checking my CP, but the I did try to check, and I'm pretty sure that's what I felt, and it seemed that my cavity was "shorter" than normal (but also felt firm). Is that "low" CP?

[kemaji]

Two period questions:
1) Even if you have brown flow that is light (as in need for coverage, not color) for five days, it still doesn't count as CD 1 until there is red blood? Is this "normal" (knowing that "normal" is subjective)?
2) Is there such a thing as EWCM mixed in with menstrual fluid? Mine has seemed like that on the TP for a day or two in this period and I also noted it in the last one...

My FF VIP trial expired, so I'm using the free version, and I'm trying the Ovusoft trial, too, which I sort of prefer to the FF, so I might order that...

ETA: I have been a little sqeamish about checking my CP, but the I did try to check, and I'm pretty sure that's what I felt, and it seemed that my cavity was "shorter" than normal (but also felt firm). Is that "low" CP?

I would count brown flow as spotting, as long as you're not using multiple tampons. If it is a significant amount, then I would consider that CD1. My AF generally starts off really really dark and not bright red, so I consider a heavy flow to be CD1, not the color of the blood.

You can have EWCM with blood if you're not ovulating during your cycles, I'm not sure about it if you are Oing, I would have to look that up.

About your CP, you were right and as you get more familiar with your range, you will be able to tell if it is really really low or really really high too.

[Janey]

I've started Chart #3 today. Sort of exciting. I gotta say though that I still think it's a little bit funny that I actually find getting my period exciting for the first time in my life.

As sort of a continuation of Reenie's question, today I'm having some brown spotting. I'm fairly convinced that by the end of the evening I will have some red blood and have therefore called this Menses/CD1 in my chart. But say the blood doesn't turn red (also say for argument's sake that I don't change it in Ovusoft... I plan to do that if I don't see the red blood). Say I call this CD1 and don't get red blood until tomorrow. Is this a big deal? It doesn't seem like it would be to me, but maybe I'm too new to know any better.

When you chart, how close is 'close enough'?

[chinadoll]

I've started Chart #3 today. Sort of exciting. I gotta say though that I still think it's a little bit funny that I actually find getting my period exciting for the first time in my life.

As sort of a continuation of Reenie's question, today I'm having some brown spotting. I'm fairly convinced that by the end of the evening I will have some red blood and have therefore called this Menses/CD1 in my chart. But say the blood doesn't turn red (also say for argument's sake that I don't change it in Ovusoft... I plan to do that if I don't see the red blood). Say I call this CD1 and don't get red blood until tomorrow. Is this a big deal? It doesn't seem like it would be to me, but maybe I'm too new to know any better.

When you chart, how close is 'close enough'?
For me, AF often starts with some brown spotting. Usually this is CD1 for me and sometimes if it shows up in the afternoon it isn't really red until the next morning. I'd wait to call it CD1 until you see when the red comes. You can always change it later! But both FF and Ovusoft will start a new chart when you enter it as menses, and if you end up with a few days of spotting you won't want a new chart yet.

I also find getting my period quite a relief! Then I know that charting is still working and we haven't had any "oops" moments.

[tlew12778]

Say I call this CD1 and don't get red blood until tomorrow. Is this a big deal? It doesn't seem like it would be to me, but maybe I'm too new to know any better.

When you chart, how close is 'close enough'? Basically, it would throw off your O date by one day. That, in and of itself, is not that big a deal but it can become a bigger deal if you start using rules like the 7 day rule (Doering) for UDD. For instance, your chart says you O'ed CD17 bc you counted the spotting day as CD1, but you actually O'ed on CD16 bc your first day of red flow was CD2. Using the 7 day rule, you could UDD until CD10 when counting the spotting, but when corrected, you should only UDD until CD9. So in that instance, not changing the CD1 date could increase your risk of pregnancy. All, this of course, is presuming that this particular chart is also your earliest O date chart since that is what you use for the Doering rule.

[Reenie]

Thanks for your thoughts and expertise, kemaji. :)

LOL MrsHill I just started chart #3, too (second complete chart), and it is funny to find periods exciting, but I now do, too. :p

[candy corn]

hi ladies... I have an O question... FF has marked my O date on CD20, but my temps on the following 2 days were only 97.3, which although higher than my previous temps, I had temps of 97.3 a few times earlier in my cycle... So is it safe to assume that FF was wrong, and that I actually O'd on CD22? (I realize I need one more day in this case to affirm a real thermal shift - but I'm dying to figure out when DH and I can UDD!!!!!)

Thanks!!!

[FSUSammy]

candy corn - I'm still a newbie at this but by looking at your chart it looks like it would be right. It doesn't matter if you had that temp earlier during your cycle. O is determined by a spike over .2 from your previous six (I believe) and then 3 consecutive highs.

[tlew12778]

Candy - The reason that FF pegged CD20 as your O date is bc of the EWCM. Had you entered EWCM on CD22 it would have changed it to CD22 I bet. That said, Sam is correct... you need .2 above your previous 6 according to TCOYF rules. So in this instance, FF is correct. However, if you want to play it really safe, you can UDD tomorrow night assuming one more high temp tomorrow morning.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Today would be CD5 or CD46. So far my temps have remained on the low end so I have a feeling its more like CD5 than CD46. For the last few days I've had AF but yesterday she was VERY light but she was there because at times there was bright red flow. But today nothing yet. I guess I'll see what my temps are like the next few days to see whether I'm still on Cycle one or if I've actually moved on to Cycle 2.

Just wanted to post on here so you all didn't think I disappeared. Oh yeah, one last thing, I've downloaded the trial of Ovusoft and so far it looks pretty cool.

Sam

[Janey]

Tiffany & Chinadoll - thanks for answering my question. :)

I didn't end up seeing the red blood until yesterday, so I did change it so that yesterday was CD1.

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - Yeah, I think you're right - it is CD 5. Unless you see a temp shift within a couple days indicating a much earlier than expected O, I think it's safe to call your last cycle annov, and that you're in a currently new cycle.

Candy corn - FSU and tlew are right - you don't need for your post-shift temps to be higher than ALL of your pre-shift temps, you just have to have 3 above 6.

In your case however, because of the fertile CM on CD 21, and because 97.3 is more typically a pre-O temp than a post-O temp, and because you have a more pointed temp shift starting on CD 23, I'd be more inclined to set your CL at 97.4 and to count those 97.3s as part of your pre-shift six. So if it were me, I'd wait until you have one more high temp above 97.4 before UDD (tonight, hopefully?). One thing that Sevilla taught me (on this board) back when I was asking questions about similar temp shifts as yours is that it does no good to skimp on temp shifts, especially when you have a fairly more obvious on on CD 23 rather than on CD 21. Much better, when trying to avoid, to be more conservative with the interpretation, and especially so when you still have fertile CM showing up after FF's supposed temp shift. So I'd say FF is wrong in its interp.

[southerner]

RobynScott,**waving** you snuck in :)

candy corn, You and I started charting around the same few days. I just noticed the CM everybody always talks about around here. For the first time in my life, I know that body is getting ready to O. It's different, to say the least, isn't it?

Reenie and Sammy, This thread (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=6229&highlight=Ovusoft) might be helpful to you, about Ovusoft vs. FF.


I'm getting ready to O (I think) on my first cycle of charting. I've had EWCM the past two days. Here's my chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/ttc/) if anyone is interested. CD1 was the first weekend when I didn't wake up to temp. in the morning (rookie mistake). I can now go back to sleep on the weekends. That's exciting ;)

I'm learning a lot in here, thanks :o

[motray36]

Hmmm, I havent been getting notifications...sometimes computers frusetrate me!

I'm CD 32, O'd on CD26, so I'm 6 DPO...we moved into our first house this weekend, which I thought my throw my O off (stress, physical work), but it doesn't seem to have been an issue!

[Clattercote]

motray - Aren't bodies weird like that, though? Sometimes I think for SURE my O will be thrown off by some stressful event and then it isn't. Surefire O delayers for my are illness exactly on the 2-3 days when I would have normally O'd, and travel across time zones. But moving, stressful weeks at work, deaths in the family, illnesses slightly before or after O seem to make no difference. Can't figure it out!

[candy corn]

Hi everybody!

Thanks for your input on my chart - I was more inclined to be conservative, like clattercote said... and then this morning when I updated my temps from the weekend, FF moved my O date to CD22... That would have made UDD on PO day 3.... that's ok, right???

My thermal shift seems so clear - I'm so excited!! I know alot of people end up annov. after coming off the pill, so I'm hoping that I won't have "beginner's luck" and get wacky next month!!!

thanks again!! :D

[Clattercote]

candycorn - Yup, it looks like FF moved its lines more to where I would also put them if I were FF. :) UDD on the evening of 3 DPO should be fine, especially since you saw CM dry up and a sustained shift.

[fsb2005]

The past few days, I felt really strongly that I was close to O-ing. Lots of CM, and really noticeable increase in sex drive.

But then yesterday it felt like I sort of dried up and the sex drive went away. Similar feeling today.

Yet, no temp shift. Here's my chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41

What does that mean? Was ovulation postponed? Is it normal for fertile signs to lessen right before you O?

Thanks for the help!

Edited to add: Ok, I guess I haven't really "dried up." Still some fairly wet CM. So I guess my question is why the sex drive surge that went away? I really don't feel like it was just an emotional thing - it felt like it was completely hormonal...

[Clattercote]

fsb2005 - I don't know - it's hard to say why that happens. It might be hormonal, but a lot of other things go into figuring one's sex drive, including stress level, exercise, and diet. Charting-wise, I'd say your body is still gearing up for O and just hasn't hit its threshold yet; that you're still seeing fertile CM is an indication of this. I will sometimes have charts where I start seeing fertile CM, and have all the feelings - but O doesn't happen for another week or so, because stress of some kind has intervened. HTH.

[fsb2005]

Thanks Clattercote! That does make sense.

I've read about stress delaying O, but I just can't imagine what that stress might have been.

I was mostly just wondering if there was some explanation along the lines of - evolutionarily it's best to BD 3-4 days before O, and therefore your body ups your sex drive then - or something like that. A lot of speculating for my second cycle, huh? :)

[SQ2]

What happens if you have two different kinds of CM on the same day? This morning I had one time when I used the bathroom and wiped up a whole bunch of what I think is EWCM. Except it was more opaque and beige colored but still stretchy. What confused me about this is that I thought it was usually more of a buildup to EW. Only yesterday I noticed sticky/gummy CM all the days before that were dry. Then this afternoon it was definitely just sticky CM. Do I record it as EW for the day or just sticky?

Here's another question, when you ladies check CM and record what it is for a certain day, is it that way the entire day? (As in every time you check.) Because for me, today, at least, it's been alternating between sticky and dry and then that EW I had this morning. I didn't know if CM had to be constant throughout the day or if you can record something you notice only some of the day. Sorry if this is confusing.

Anyways, here is my chart (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=bgum78). This is my second cycle off BCP and of charting but my first using the software and I'm having fun with it. I'm a dork but I get excited to input my data every day and see the program connect the dots. Hee hee. :)

[honeygirl]

SQ2 - I remember reading in TCOYF that you record your most fertile CM at the end of the day. So, if you were dry all day but then had some EWCM before bed you would mark it as EWCM. Any other ladies want to chime in here?

As for enjoying putting in data, I totally agree! Some parts of the cycle I look forward to going to bed so that I can get up to temp. LOL. How lame is that? :) Just wait till we TTC, then it will get even more exciting!

[Janey]

Yep, I agree... I'd enter the most fertile type of CM. That's the conservative way to do it. If you want to note the other types in your 'notes' section for future reference then that'd be a good way to do it... but I'd "officially" call it EWCM.

I too love seeing connect-the-dots. :D I'm such a datahead though. I say to B, "Look at my chart!" and I show him all the dips and climbs with my mouse and I make sound-effects.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, Hopefully someone can answer this:

I take weekly allergy shots and I'm almost to my maintenance phase and yesterday I had my shot for the week and I had a horrible reaction to it (still am). Well the reaction could be worse but one of my arms is very swollen around the shot area and the entire area is very warm, clearly a bad reaction.

Well I was wondering if this could possibly cause my temp to go up temporarily? I don't have access to FF at work so I can't post my temps until I get home. I'm definitely going to write on my chart that I had my shot yesterday just in case it happens again next week. And while I'm at it I'll go back to last month's chart and make note of when I had my shot to see if I had the same issue there.

-Sam

[kemaji]

Sam -- That could absolutely make you have a higher temperature. One common side effect from any type of shot is a low grade fever. I would definitely make a note in your chart that you got your shot yesterday.

SQ2 -- Everyone else is correct, you should record your most fertile CM of the day....

[SQ2]

Thanks, ladies! :D I changed my chart to include the EW and Ovusoft drew me a line! (Not the coverline, but whatever that other line is called.) So I guess I'm fertile now (or at least the program thinks I am). Hee hee...it is the simple things in life that make me happy. :)

On a different note, did anyone catch Scrubs last night! Carla wants to have a baby so she pages Turk whenever she's ovulating. They nade some jokes about temps and CM and stuff. Elliot called CM "icky sticky". Hehe. Anyways, just thought that was funny. Love that show.

[Janey]

OK, I need to pick some brains again. This is the first time in charting that I have raised an eyebrow at my body.

B and I UDD last night. I am CD8 and use the Dry Day rule. This afternoon, I went jogging with a friend of mine. I stopped at a restroom, and noticed what appeared to be EWCM. It was semi-cloudy, and it stretched about an inch. In my previous two cycles, I have had lots of warning before EWCM showed up. This seems to be out of the blue, and way earlier than it should be happening. Do you suppose this is 'semen obscured' CM, or do you think I should call it actual EWCM in my chart?

[honeygirl]

MrsHill - Sounds like sperm/BM (boy mucus :) ) to me.

[FSUSammy]

MrsHill - I agree with honeygirl

[Janey]

LOL - boy mucus. :p OK - it is recorded as such in my chart. Thank you both.

It just freaked me out a little because my first thought was, "Oh crap - EWCM and we UDD last night!" and my second thought was of PCOS... I used to have EWCM all the time (and thought that was normal, btw, because it was my only experience and who besides us is talking about this stuff??), and so my second thought was, "Oh crap - what if it's back!?"

So, okay. Lesson learned. Expel! Expel!

[southerner]

Weird! I had my temp shift (on the 15th) and FF said I Oed. But, today I have some watery CM, so I went to put that into my chart and it took my O line away :confused: I haven't been recording all my CM this month, now I wish I had :( I thought I was supposed to "dry out" after O? Maybe I haven't really Oed yet like FF is saying??? I know y'all say to not always depend on the computer program to determine it, but is it weird that my CM came back? Or have I really not Oed yet?

Here's my chart. (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/ttc/)

[FSUSammy]

southerner - Definitely don't trust FF. It said I O'd on my first cycle but I didn't have any temp shift at all. Rely on your temps and if you see 3 consecutive days of high temps over your last previous six then yes you've O'd.

P.S. The link to your chart appears to be wrong. It doesn't work for me.

Sam

[katiej]

Hi! I am currently on my fourth chart and definetly need some help. I will post them as soon as I can figure out how to get them on the ovusoft website.

screen name: katiej
Real name: Katie (23)
DH: Pedro (20)
Occupation: teacher
Married: 22 December 2005
Started charting: 11 September 2005
TTC: hmm...whenever insurance covers it...!

[katiej]

Please bear with me and my lack of abbreviations! I have a lot of time on another board, but for immigration, so a whole different set of abbreviations...
okay, I think the link to my charts is working now. If you look at my third cycle, you can see that it didn't change much, but I didn't think anything of it because I had my period as normal and there still was a shift. So, when ovusoft put my ovulation where it did (day 23) on the current cycle, I thought it was fine because my last cycle was like that. (I manually moved the O to where it is now) Well, it is now day fourty, no AF. As my chart shows, only one time of complete UDD and that was day 34. I have had sore breasts (is the BB??) for over a week, a day long migraine, zits, you name it...still no AF. I don't understand how we could possibly be pg since I thought we were fairly careful. Help is appreciated!

[Clattercote]

katiej - Welcome to the board, first of all! Don't worry about getting the abbreviations right off the bat - we're just glad to help each other out with interpretation.

As for interpreting your chart, I'll say a couple things. One is don't panic yet about pg - your LP (luteal phase) is only just at 13 days. Another is that I think you were absolutely correct to move your O date - Ovusoft's calculation of the 4th as an O date would be quite wrong, I think. I think the coverline would be at 36.4 in this chart and you have a nice sustained temp shift so I do think you interpreted correctly. CD 34 would be well past any O date or temp shift I could possibly make out - I mean, even if you wanted to take the 36.7 temps as being a stronger indicator of O, and so you made the O date on the 10th (CD - cycle day- 29), you'd still be past the 3 days of temp shift. The only concern I have with this chart is your CM (cervical mucous/fluid) notations past the O date. Would you say that the litle you noticed a week ago was definitely infertile quality? Or was it more fertile? If there's CM present, it's good to be careful about UDD if you see some - but of course that depends on what kind you saw - and you had noticed dry-up coinciding with a temp shift earlier, and you had noted that CD 34 was a dry day as well - so by TCOYF standards, I'd say you did really, really well.

You noted stress in your chart over the last week or so - I'd wonder if perhaps the sore bb's and zits might be due to that. For me, at least, stress really affects my body, sometimes in ways I don't anticipate, and that's what I'd wonder is going on here.

[Clattercote]

southerner - I agree with FSUSammy - don't rely on FF's interpretations about temp shifts. (The link didn't work for me, either, btw - there's a section at the top of the page, maybe under a tab called "analysis", in FF on sharing charts and that section will give you the correct web link.) If you see CM coming back, that's an indication that you haven't O'd yet and that your body is likely gearing up for O. The only exception is if you saw a sustained temp shift several days before you see fertile quality CM (and I'd like to see the chart myself to get a sense of whether you saw a shift or not), and you get that fertile quality CM a day or so before AF. THAT fertile quality doesn't indicate a return to fertility, but indicates an estrogen surge just before AF arrives. But if you're seeing more than one day of fertile quality CM, there's a good chance FF was wrong in it's interpretation and the dry up in CM you saw earlier was really what we call a double peak - that is, you peak once but don't O, and then you peak again and do O.

[katiej]

I have a hard time marking CM because there is a rarely a day when I don't have any. My CM is usually always creamy/lotiony or kinda booger-like I guess. I try to mark it, but it is kinda hard since I always have. I do, however, sometimes notice a change to more of the watery/eggwhite stuff. Thanks for the input Clatterclote!

[chinadoll]

katiej-- how did you get all of the "extra" stuff on your Ovusoft chart -- the areas fro zits, migraine, running, condoms, etc. I didn't know there was a way to add your own boxes, but I'd love to do it on my own chart.

[Reenie]

katiej-- how did you get all of the "extra" stuff on your Ovusoft chart -- the areas fro zits, migraine, running, condoms, etc. I didn't know there was a way to add your own boxes, but I'd love to do it on my own chart.

You click on "Other" section, and then click either "add recurring" if you want it to always be a choice or "add new" if you just want to add it once. I love that feature, too.

[chinadoll]

is this the Other tab on the Daily Fertility Signs box? Maybe I'm totally blind, but I don't see an option anywhere to add anything. There are the standard 8 boxes that can be checked, plus an area for notes. Help?:confused:

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Got a quick question, possible TMI.

Last night while in the bathroom I was checking my CM. I usually check outside first and then if I need to I'll check internally. Well while checking outside I came back with some goo that was somewhat stretchy but I wouldn't consider it egg-whiteish at all. But it did stretch about 1 in long. When I checked internally I didn't get anything at all.

Then about a few hours later when I checked again before bed and I had a more lotiony consistency. Not sure if I should consider yesterday creamy or EWCM. Should I be play it more conservative and call is EWCM?? I haven't updated my FF chart since last week (been lazy) but I am around CD15.

Thanks!
Sam

[Reenie]

is this the Other tab on the Daily Fertility Signs box? Maybe I'm totally blind, but I don't see an option anywhere to add anything. There are the standard 8 boxes that can be checked, plus an area for notes. Help?:confused:

Are you running Version 2.0? I am, so I wanted to be sure we're talking about the same thing.

If you are, when you are in the "daily fertility signs" box, click on the tab labeled "other." You will have lots of choices (breast tenderness, headache, etc) that are already built into the program. There is also a "daily notes" box in that tab. In between their standard choices and the notes box, there are two purple-colored, rectangular squares that you can click one, on that says "Add Recurring" and one that says "Add New."

FSUSammy I think I would call it EWCM just to be safe. I had a similar experience and called it EWCM because I thought you're supposed to record the most fertile fluid for the day.

I now find myself in an unexpected 2ww. I am pretty sure that I ovulated in the last couple of days- Friday or Saturday? (fertility friend chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1002c9)) and while we haven't even started UDD (still figuring everything out- this is my third cycle), we had a "condom malfunction" last night (Sunday). :rolleyes: I'm wondering if the egg might already have been gone by last night?

[SQ2]

Another newbie question. It would seem that I had a temp shift this cycle. Isn't Ovusoft supposed to mark the day of ovulation?

My Chart (http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=bgum78)

This is my second cycle off BCP but my first one using this software.

[motray36]

SQ2 I'm not too familiar with Ovusoft...wish I could help!

FSU Was the day before EW? I think it is unlikely that it was EW...1" stretch could indicate EW, but if the days before and after were creamy, I'd think it would be less likely. Is this your 2nd chart off BCP? You're body could still be regulating, and since you didnt O until CD29 last cycle, I'd be even more hesitant to call it EW. But, always better safe than sorry!

[Janey]

SQ2 - Yep, it is. Ovusoft is also supposed to draw you a coverline, which it did not do for you... so that confuses me as well. When your temperature stays up over your coverline for 3 days in a row, it will peg your Ovulation date with a little 'egg' graphic. I'm going to defer to the experts on this one, but my guess is that you O'ed on CD18??

[FSUSammy]

motray36 - Nope that was the only day that I saw anything close to EW. Yeah this is my 2nd cycle off, and actually 1st cycle was anovulation even though FF thinks I O'd.

[southerner]

does/did all this stuff stress you out also?

I'm on my first cycle of charting and I'm trying to figure my own stuff out (ie temps after supposed O date have been low and FF keeps moving my coverline) and trying to learn from your stuff. I didn't chart all of my CM this month and I'm reading about your CM questions/dilemmas and it's just not registering. I'm confused by my stuff and can't think about the other (larger picture stuff) yet. :mad:

I'm hoping whenever I get around to reading TCOYF, it will be easier to follow :( I never knew it was going to be this overwhelming. Add to that I don't know why the link I post to my chart isn't working. grrr!!

[SQ2]

I wonder why it didn't draw my coverline? :( Is there a setting that I need to change?

[Janey]

does/did all this stuff stress you out also?
Not in the least. It actually gives me huge peace of mind.

But I think that this:
I'm hoping whenever I get around to reading TCOYF,

Will make the rest of your angst go away pretty quickly. So find 30 minutes a day to read. You won't be sorry! :)


SQ2, your chart does not look like a very obvious "Yep you ovulated, here's when, and here's where your coverline should be" chart to me. (I noticed you had a lot of stress & travel this month -- that could be why??) I think Ovusoft is as confused by your chart as I am, which is why you're not seeing a coverline and an Egg. I think your settings are probably OK. I don't think I altered my settings -- I'm just using them "out of the box." We'll have to hope that some of the experts weigh in for ya.

[Clattercote]

SQ2 - Your temps show a definite move upwards - but i'm a bit concerned about the wet CM you noted. I think the reason Ovusoft wouldn't list an O is because the chart looks like what we call a "slow rise" - that is, there's not a nice sharp jump in temp so the program can't recognize it. But the slow rise shouldn't also be accompanied by fertile CM so soon after O, so I wonder if you have O'd yet. I'd be a bit cautious still. Do you think it was definitely wet CM? (I ask because even after 8 months of charting I still found myself confused about wet CM versus "normal" wetness.)

Southerner - It does seem like a LOT of info at first - but I agree with MrsHill, it'll make more sense once you read TCOYF. The one thing I'd say about CM is for the first couple months just include as many descriptive notes about any possible CM as you can. The more descriptive the better - once you've got 2-3 months of charting done, you'll be able to look back and see what is fertile for you and what isn't. But it does take some time. Hang in there!

[katiej]

Can a chart be annovulatory and you still get your period? Was my chart three annovulatory because there wasn't a huge change? I didn't think there was anything wrong with it because I got my period...but, I am still learning all the rules and such. Thanks

[chinadoll]

Are you running Version 2.0? I am, so I wanted to be sure we're talking about the same thing.
I figured out before you posted that there must be a newer version. Now I love Ovusoft even more! Thanks.

SQ2 -- It might be because of the slow rise, as someone already mentioned. You can double check your settings under preferences. It will calculate your ovulation based on either:
1. Temperature and cervical fluid (i think this is the default)
2. Temp only
3. CM only

The presence of wet CM after the beginning of the temp rise might be affecting the calculations too.

[FSUSammy]

katiej - My first chart was annovulatory and I still got my period. But in looking at your chart it appears that ovusoft pinpointed O based. Based on your temps it looks to me like you did have a temp shift on CD 28. Then again I'm a newbie and am also still just learning all the rules.

Sam

[SQ2]

chinadoll ~ I checked my preferences and it is set to factor in CM and temp.

Clattercote ~ I'm fairly sure it was EWCM. I only noticed it once when using the bathroom but it came out in a huge glop, was very stretchy and transluscent. Not really clear, more beige colored. Same type of EWCM that I had last month, except last month it lasted for 3 days instead of 1. I've had a lot of stress and travel this month so maybe this is affecting it? We are using protection all the time so I'm not worried about getting pg but it would still be nice to know if I'm ovulating! :) Again, I could be interpreting my CM incorrectly. I try to look at the photos in TCOYF and compare.

[Clattercote]

katiej - I think there's a noticeable temp shift and that this past cycle was not annov. An annov cycle would typically have temps bouncing all over the place.


SQ2 - It sounds like fertile quality CM then. I don't know what to say about the possible temp shift except that I *think* I remember from The Art of NFP that there are charts that show slow rises in temps in conjunction with fertile CM for a while after the slow rise starts. The temp shifts in this case are difficult to pinpoint but you'd have to have 4 days of dry up before you could start looking for a temp shift.

[ADSigMel]

I thought three weeks ago that I had ovulated. FF concurred. And I am now a week late. This morning, I finally put in some of the temps that I had randomly taken when I started wondering why AF hadn't showed up yet (she was due a week ago according to my usual LP). AND FF TOOK AWAY MY O! Now I'm really freaked out, because we've been assuming I was in Phase 3 and BD! I got a BFN on Thursday, but now I don't know WHAT'S going on! I guess I have to assume I'm still in Phase 2, go back to charting, and hope for the best, huh? This BITES!

[Clattercote]

ADSigMel - Yeah, it does look like you're still in Phase II... I'm looking at your past temps, though, in addition to looking at your current chart, and I wonder whether you have in fact been ovulating. The reason I'm wondering is because your temps are low and are basically staying low. Even with the supposed temp shift in this past cycle, you still have fall-back temps that go below the coverline that I'd set (97.3) - a clear indication that you haven't O'd yet. Add that to the fact that you got a series of longer and longer cycles since the first one you recorded, and I'd be calling around for a doctor's appointment. I think there's something going on - hormonal imbalance of some kind, that could be helped by a variety of things - including non-abc natural alternatives, if that's the direction you want to go.

Because of the difficulty of determining temp shifts in your cycles, this is a case where I'd use Art of NFP rules rather than TCOYF rules - because the rules for a temp shift with Art are more exacting. So - what I'd do in your present chart is set a possible LTL (low temp level) at 97.2, and an HTL (high temp level) 0.4 degrees above the LTL, at 97.6. In order to consider yourself in phase three, you have to have three temps in a rising pattern, that last one of which MUST be at or above the HTL. In your chart, there is NOT this pattern - your first temp is at 97.6, but none of the others are, and in fact, the temp goes back to LTL levels - a sure sign that you hadn't O'd then. It looks like your body wanted to O, given the CM, but didn't quite get there. Fwiw, I don't think that you've been very fertile in the last few weeks - partly because I think there's something hormonal going on, but partly because you haven't had CM and your temps are still low. So I wouldn't worry too much about pg - there's always a chance, of course, but I think not a very great one in your case.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, Got a quick question. I've noticed that several times this cycle when I wake up to temp when my digital therm. beeps it reads a temp of 95.8 which is LOW. I haven't questioned it until today. I woke up and I got that temp and decided to temp again immediately and my temp went up to 96.8 which is more in line with my current temps. When I temp I make sure to pay attention to what I'm doing and make sure to not get any air coming in through my mouth but I just don't know why my temp would intially be so low.

Any thoughts? Do I need a new thermometer?

Thanks!
Sam

[Janey]

Sammy, I've noticed some strangely low temps too for the past two cycles. Maybe it's just that time of year?? But the weird thing is - other than those two lows, my temps have been flat, flat, flat. I don't know if that's a good sign or a bad sign either. I am using the BD thermometer. Which one are you using?

[motray36]

FSUSammy - if its a bit colder in your room, the thermometer might need a few seconds in your mouth to "warm up" before you push the button to temp.

[honeygirl]

MrsHill - I'm no expert, but I think it's a good think to have more "flat" temperatures. I believe that mine fluctuate more b/c I am not a very good sleeper. Similar temps (as long as they go up for O and back down after AF) probably mean that you are a nice stable sleeper. That makes interpretation easier. :)

Lucky you!

[candy corn]

Hi all!!

I'm so excited!! AF came today - I have officially finished my first chart!!! woo hoo!!!

...is it sad that I'm that excited about AF?!?! :D

[Janey]

motray36, that's a good thought about the thermometer needing to wait in the mouth a bit. I bet it was colder in my room those nights that I hit those lows.

honeygirl, I'm usually up at least once in the night to go to the bathroom, and I certainly have had my share of sleepless nights, but lately -- especially since I started working out again! -- I've been sleeping like a log. It just makes me go 'hmm' a little bit when 6 out of the last 7 days have been the exact same temperature to the 1/10th of a degree. But, until I find out that there's a problem with the thermometer, I will just consider myself lucky to have flat temps.

[tlew12778]

Flat temps means either really stable hormones or broke therm. Check to make sure your therm gives other temp readings by taking your temp in the middle of the day. If it does, then it's ok.

[Clattercote]

candycorn - Yes, I still get excited about AF because charting is fun to me (though talk to me in 10 years and see how I feel :p ) There's just something thrilling about getting to the end of a chart and feeling like I had a sense of what my body was doing, when AF was going to come, and a feeling of success about avoiding pg via charting.

[fsb2005]

Hi all!

I have a question about CM.

What is "watery" CM like? Should there be lots of it? Should it be thicker than actual water, or is it really more like water?

I'm asking bc when I've been checking today, (sorry if TMI), my finger has definitely been wet (and not just slightly damp - as if I stuck my finger in water and shook off the drops), but there isn't a ton of it. When it's this thin though, I wonder if there can be a ton of it - how would it stay on your finger?

Anyway, I guess my main question is: when you record CM as "watery," is it referring only to the consistency, or does it also mean quantity, as in a lot of watery CM?

Thanks!

[Clattercote]

fsb2005 - I think watery CM is the hardest to detect because it often comes out with pee - and it's hard for me to figure out what's just normal wetness and what's additional wetness - and I don't often see it myself, so hopefully those who do will chime in - but what I'd say is to notice the way you feel when you're just sitting around and not looking for CM- if you're definitely wetter than at non-fertile times, then I'd count it as watery. Also - if you're right at the point where you should be seeing some kind of more fertile stuff (like, you've already seen a progression from sticky to wetter kinds) then you probably are seeing watery.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

I had another really short LP this past cycle. I was travelling, so that may have been part of it and I kind of slacked off on taking my suppliments.

fsb2005 -- I usually get watery CM the day or two before AF. That is usually the only point in my cycle that I get it, so it is a fairly regular sign that AF is right around the corner for me. I usually record it only on consistency and feeling because it can feel as if AF has arrived, but when I check, it hasn't.

[kissmary]

I've finally gone and joined FF, and here's my chart http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/112767.

[tlew12778]

My watery CM floods out of me. Literally. I usually have to run to the bathroom to "dry" myself. But, this has only been happening while I've been taking the Fertility Blend. Before that, watery CM on my finger was like slightly more dense than actual H2O so it would actually show up on my finger.

[fsb2005]

Thanks for all the help! This is only my second cycle of BCP and my first cycle recording CM (last cycle I only temped), so I'll just have to see. I think it's going to be interesting figuring out when I O'ed this month, so maybe that will shed some light on whether what I saw was watery CM or just general moisture.

---------------------------------
Question 2
---------------------------------
But, now I have another question. I get pretty noticeable cramps around when I O, close to how AF feels. There is usually one day where they are strong and very noticeable.

For others who get these or for those who understand more about what is happening, does a day of strong cramping usually happen the day before you O? The day of O? The day after?

My temps this month are a little strange - kind of a step up towards O instead of a big leap - so I was thinking if the day of strong temps usually happened right before or at O, that would help me figure out when I really O'ed.

Here is a link to my chart if anyone is interested. FF put in the crosshairs, not me. (Another Q - does anyone think I should discard the temp on CD 16?) I kind of think I O'ed more around CD 20 or 21, which is around when I got those cramps. Again though, I am not sure about the EWCM and W marks on CDs 20 and 21.
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41

Thanks!!

--------------------
ETA: I'm really thinking I should toss the temp from CD 16. Now that I went back and looked at what happened around there, I'd had alcohol the night before, I wrote "poor sleep," and I temped 1 hr 15 minutes later than normal. I'm thinking it's not accurate...

[Janey]

Re: Temperatures... I temped last night just for grins and got 98.4, and this morning was 97.0; both different than the 97.3 my body seems to like to hang out at. My thermometer seems to be working okay, so I'm going with the theory that my hormones are pretty steady. :)

[FSUSammy]

tlew12778 - Saw your response above and was wondering what Fertility Blend was?

Thanks!

[tlew12778]

tlew12778 - Saw your response above and was wondering what Fertility Blend was?

Thanks!
A womens' multivitamin basically that is supposed to help regulate your hormones and improve your fertility. You can read more about it here. (http://fertilityblend.com/)

Since I started taking it, I have o'ed every month (remember I have PCOS so that's a good sign) and my LP lengthened from 11 days to 13. The downside (for TTA purposes) is that as soon as I start taking it, I have watery CM. Always. Even after O if I continue taking it during my LP. That puts a HUGE drawback on UDD if you use the last dry day rule (you can't in this case) or the Doering rule (which is what we use(d)). They recommend you take 3 per day but it's super expensive and I found I can start taking it around CD10 then stop 2-3 days after O. If I start Oing later or missing O entirely, I will take them everyday again.

[southerner]

I need to start taking supplements :rolleyes:

I'm going try try posting my chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2) again. Do y'all mind taking a look at it? FF says I haven't Oed yet and I've had some of the same "watery" CM that fsb2005 reported about. But, my temps are all over the place :confused:

MrsHill, cool about steady hormones ;)

[fsb2005]

southerner I think you got the link wrong (at least it took me to my own chart). I think you need to go to Sharing -> Set up Homepage and then copy the link that shows up there.

[southerner]

southerner I think you got the link wrong (at least it took me to my own chart). I think you need to go to Sharing -> Set up Homepage and then copy the link that shows up there.

thanks for explaining that to me. I edited that post, so hopefully it's working now.

[fsb2005]

I need to start taking supplements :rolleyes:

I'm going try try posting my chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2) again. Do y'all mind taking a look at it? FF says I haven't Oed yet and I've had some of the same "watery" CM that fsb2005 reported about. But, my temps are all over the place :confused:

MrsHill, cool about steady hormones ;)

It doesn't look to me like you've O'ed yet either. Is this your first cycle off birth control? That can cause some wacky stuff like late ovulation I think.

It looked promising for an O around CD 15, but I think you need more sustained higher temps afterwards to really call it. If you cover up that one high temp on CD 16, it doesn't look like you've had a real temp shift yet.

I think also right off BC pills your CM can have a more random pattern, not necessarily gearing up right towards Oing.

Anyway, I am new to this too, but those are my thoughts...

ETA: I don't think your temps are really "all over the place," they just haven't shown a sustained shift yet. Variations of less than .5 seem pretty normal from what I've seen. Also, it's normal for your temps to be higher during you period and then come down. So I think your temps look pretty normal, just that you haven't O'ed yet.

[southerner]

thanks fsb2005! I thought maybe I haven't Oed yet, but it just seems so weird. I'm on CD 25 and my cycles are usually only 30-33 days long. So, I was thinking either it's an annovulatory cycle or I just O really late in my cycle. I'm not 100% confident about the CM data that I have entered, so that might make a difference, I think :confused:

I've been off BC for years now.

[FSUSammy]

southerner - It doesn't look like you O'd to me either. It can definitely be either annov. or a late O, just have to wait and see. Are you having any other kind of CM besides EW and Watery???

Sam

[southerner]

southerner Are you having any other kind of CM besides EW and Watery???

Sam

I haven't recorded it this month. Shame. Shame. I know. I wanted to get a hang of taking temps first.

[fsb2005]

Hi all,

Sorry for posting twice, but I was worried this got lost because I'm the last post two pages ago. So, I'm reposting my question in case anyone has any thoughts...

Thanks!

---------------------------------
Question re ovulation pain/cramping/achiness
---------------------------------
I get pretty noticeable cramps around when I O, close to how AF feels. Actually it's more like an achiness - not a sharp pain (my AF cramps are like that too). There is usually one day where they are strong and very noticeable.

For others who get these or for those who understand more about what is happening, does a day of strong cramping usually happen the day before you O? The day of O? The day after?

My temps this month are a little strange - kind of a step up towards O instead of a big leap - so I was thinking if the day of strong temps usually happened right before or at O, that would help me figure out when I really O'ed.

Here is a link to my chart if anyone is interested. FF put in the crosshairs, not me. (Another Q - does anyone think I should discard the temp on CD 16?) I kind of think I O'ed more around CD 20 or 21, which is around when I got those cramps. Again though, I am not sure about the EWCM and W marks on CDs 20 and 21.
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41

Thanks!!

--------------------
ETA: I'm really thinking I should toss the temp from CD 16. Now that I went back and looked at what happened around there, I'd had alcohol the night before, I wrote "poor sleep," and I temped 1 hr 15 minutes later than normal. I'm thinking it's not accurate...

[tlew12778]

fsb - I only had O pains once in my life so I am no expert on those. And when I had them I had such horrendous back cramps I was crying. So no general achiness for me.

As for your chart, I would actually be more tempted to call O at CD21 bc of your EWCM on CD20 and watery CM on CD21. While your temps could support your current O (if you discard CD16 which I think you should given the circumstances), your CM does not.

[fsb2005]

Thanks tlew12778. I think that's right, but I'm basing it more on the achiness I felt on CD 20. I am really unsure of the watery and EWCM markings on CD 20 and 21. There really wasn't much there, and the EWCM was a tiny bit once in the day (and waaaaayy TMI but I'm not positive it wasn't arousal fluid - can that stretch an inch?).

Though maybe if I think the achiness confirms the O date, that should also confirm the CM from those days...

When I discard CD 16, FF moves the cross hairs a day earlier...

Funny the FF is so different from FAM.

[kemaji]

fsb -- I don't really get noticable O pains either. Sometimes I'll notice a low very mild crampy/pricking feeling around O time, but it doesn't happen every cycle and only once in a while. My more noticable O symptom is tender, sensitive breasts.

[Clattercote]

fsb - I've never had O pains so I can't comment on that...

For your chart, though - I agree with tlew and go with CD 21 as the O date. It's best not to ignore even the tiniest (stretching an inch or even a quarter inch) possibility of EWCM and your temp shift is just really obvious and nice starting on CD 22. Quality, NOT quantity, is what to look for when determining whether you've got EWCM or not - sometimes I get just the tiniest possible strings that stretch only 1/4" - but it's clear and stretchy - might be arousal fluid, sure - but I count it as EWCM. The guy's little guys can live in even a little tiny bit of stuff - and remember, a second ovulation is also possible within 24 hours of the first ovulation, and that egg can live 24 hours too - so that's why it's best to be more conservative about these things rather than less. So the upshot is: you've got a really nice looking chart here, in which CM and temp shift pretty much exactly coincide for an O around CD 21-22. By TCOYF rules, UDD would be possible on Saturday evening - by Art of NFP rules, you could use Rule R and UDD starting tomorrow night - assuming continued dry up and continued nice high temps.

ETA: Note on ovulation pains - for anyone reading this - remember that O pains are a secondary sign of ovulation, not a primary sign - so don't use O pain to calculate the date of O, but rather use it as a way to confirm what your temps and CM show.

[fsb2005]

Thanks kemaji and Clattercote. I totally agree on the CD 21-ish O date.

I know O pains are only a secondary marker, but I just feel like these are SO obvious and noticeable to me, and correspond w/a higher sex drive, so I was thinking maybe for me they are a good marker. In this case, they happened right on CD 20, which also coincides pretty well with the temp shift and CM.

Also, we're using condoms, so I'm not really charting to avoid...I mostly only want to DD when I'm fertile, so I don't think charting to avoid would be good for us. ;)

I'm pretty much just charting to get ready for TTC in April...

[fsb2005]

Ok, another question from me.

I am wondering what the "Sticky" label for CM really means. FF defines it as:

Sticky: Record your cervical fluid as "sticky" if it is glue-like, gummy, stiff or crumbly and if it breaks easily and quickly and if it is not easily stretched. It will probably be yellowish or white, but could also be cloudy/clear. You may or may not see some sticky cervical fluid before and after ovulation.

My question is: does it actually come out of you gummy, stiff, or crumbly? Or is that how it dries on the underwear?

If it matters, I've been checking CM with a finger, not the toilet paper (doesn't seem like enough ever comes out to be visible on the TP).

Nothing has ever felt gummy or stiff as it comes out, in fact, it's pretty much always somewhat wet/slick.

On a related note, what do I record if what is coming out is sort of wet, with very small white creamy clumps in it (geez, I can't believe what I will write on these boards)? Is that sticky?

ETA: Thanks so much for all the help!!

[Janey]

On a related note, what do I record if what is coming out is sort of wet, with very small white creamy clumps in it (geez, I can't believe what I will write on these boards)? Is that sticky?

You and me both, sister. :p

I would say that is Sticky.

[FSUSammy]

fsb2005 - Hmmm me being a newbie and all this is how I've been interepreting it....when it is clearly sticky and more clear than opaque I consider my CM sticky. When it has more of lotiony consistency and is somewhat opaque I consider it Creamy. LOL never thought I'd be talking about this stuff.

Hey ladies. I think I had a breakthrough today. I went to the gym this evening and when I got hom getting ready to hop in the shower I decided to check my CM (like I always do) and I noticed what I really think is EWCM. There wasn't much at all but there was some. I didn't think I'd even see EWCM since I'm on anithistamines but hey I'll take the little that I have!!!!

On another note, I do have another newbie question. Does anyone just feel weird around O? All day I've felt almost irritable and anxious at the same time, but for no reason at all. I also noticed some very very slight cramps this evening. I'm gonna make note of it on my chart just to have it but I was wondering if the shift in hormones would make you feel just WEIRD!??

-Sam

[tlew12778]

fsb - I would record it as sticky probably but I would also rub my fingers together to see what the consistency of the white stuff was like. If it crumbles, then it's sticky, otherwise I might put creamy. Always err on the side of caution IMO.

That said, remember that it's more important when distinguishing btwn creamy and wet vs creamy and sticky as the latter is not considered fertile quality anyway.

[SQ2]

Here's another dork excited about the arrival of AF. Hooray! :D This is my first completed cycle using Ovusoft. (2nd cycle charting.) Remember how it didn't draw my coverline for me before? Well, once I entered today as the first day of AF, it drew a coverline AND put in an O date! It also highlighted some temps in red around O which I'm not sure what that means. Is it normal to draw a coverline at the end of the cycle? I thought they'd do it when my temp shifted. Maybe there wasn't enough info to draw one yet.

My Chart (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?cycle=1&id=bgum78&tc=0&p=)

Here's what I don't like: not knowing when AF is going to arrive. I was so used to it arriving at exactly the same time every month (to the hour) so I woke up to a lovely surprise at 3am. :rolleyes: We are house sitting this weekend so I was afraid I'd messed up our friend's sheets but luckily not. Whew. Last cycle it arrived CD37 and this time it was CD28. My LP has doubled in length which is good I think. (My first cycle off BCPs my temp shifted and then dropped again after a few days.)

I've had weird upper back pains since yesterday morning and they hurt pretty bad. Could this be related to going off the pill? I've never had serious PMS or cramps or anything and I'm wondering if my AF symptoms are going to become more pronounced.

[FSUSammy]

SQ2 - Congrats on AF! Actually you can tell when AF is about to arrive. If you look at your chart you will see 3 days of temps going down. I believe on my last cycle I had the same thing where on the 3rd day of consecutive dropping temps AF arrived. I'd look at your last chart too to see if that's a pattern for you.

Sam

[charliezangel]

I've had weird upper back pains since yesterday morning and they hurt pretty bad. Could this be related to going off the pill? I've never had serious PMS or cramps or anything and I'm wondering if my AF symptoms are going to become more pronounced.


SQ2, my first cycle off the pill AF was EXCRUTIATING. I could barely get out of bed. This last cycle was better, but still a lot more painful then being on the pill. when I was on BC, I really never experienced bad cramps, mostly no cramps at all. Just my back would flare up a bit the first day. I have definetly noticed a difference since going off BC. Aleve is my new best friend. It litteraly is a miracle pill. I spent 2 hours moaning and squirming from the pain my first cycle off, and I had taken 3 advil during that time. My mom gave me 2 aleve, within 20 minutes I was fine. SOOO, that's my only advice. Hope it gets better for you.

[chinadoll]

upper (or lower) back pain can definitely be a symptom of AF. I never get back pain but I get horrible cramps. I love Aleve, ibuprofen, and my heating pad. When I'm at home I just sit with the heating pad on my lower abdomen and it works wonders. Thermacare also makes these disposable heating pads that you can stick on the inside of your underwear and they "heat" for 8-12 hours. I LOVE them. They are great for me to wear to work. They aren't cheap -- like 5/$5 but I usually only use one a month and I find it is totally worth it. It keeps me from lying on the floor in a fetal position, which would probably get me strange looks at work.

[SQ2]

Well, I'm glad to know my back pain can be attributed to AF. I was worried the other day and I didn't even think about the fact that it could be AF. I feel like I'm a teenager again having to get used to these symptoms. It's kinda weird but kinda cool to know that my body is getting back to normal. I'm excited to see what this cycle brings.

[honeygirl]

Hello ladies, I'm on CD20 and pretty sure that my O date is very near, perhaps even today. I got some advice from a great CC'er (thanks Lawgirl) and will start taking baby aspirin daily until AF comes. This should help with the spotting hopefully (I spot after O till AF the last 3 cycles).

Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424)

DH and I have been VERY careful to TTA this cycle so that we don't "oops" like last month. We're only a few months away from TTC, so I don't mind the wait at this point.

Congrats to those ladies finishing their first charting cycles. It is exciting to see what our bodies can do. :) I'm glad that I went off BCP so many months before TTC (about 8-9 mo) b/c it gives my body a chance to get back to "normal" (whatever that is).

Happy charting!

[southerner]

I learned so much my first cycle charting. I don't think I'm going to O this cycle though. AF is due in the next few days. I'm hoping this is a one time or at least a rare thing (the non Oing part). I thought maybe CD 16 was it for me, but my temps. didn't stay elevated the rest of the cycle.

I'm going to pay better attention to my CM this coming cycle. I stated read TCOYF this weekend.

Here's my chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2) if anyone want to take a look again.

[honeygirl]

Southerner - Yes, it looks like you haven't O'd yet. This may be an anovulatory cycle, but I wouldn't count on it ending (ie AF coming) like your old cycles. Without the O, the body doesn't bring on AF in a regular fashion. My first cycle off BCP was longer than usual, something like 40 days I think. So don't be surprised if AF doesn't come when you think she will.

Hang in there, it will get more regular with time!

[FSUSammy]

southerner - I agree with honeygirl, do not be surprised if AF doesn't come when you expect. My first cycle (last cycle) was anovulatory and lasted 40 days. On day 41 when I was expecting to continue charting cycle #1 on a new chart AF arrived. With me I kinda knew AF was on the way when for 2 days in a row my temps dropped drastically. But everyone IS different.

[southerner]

honeygirl & FSUSammy, y'all are right. My temp went up dramatically this morning, so maybe I Oed? But, my CM was blatantly "creamy" this past few days, not EW :confused: I had that earlier in my cycle. I hope this will all start to make more sense once I have a few charts under my belt and I see patterns.

[candy corn]

Hi again!

I know I've seen a lot of questions about thermometers, and I'm afraid to say it - but I have one, too!! The last two mornings it just didn't seem like my thermometer was in my mouth very long before it beeped to tell me it was done... I didn't think much of it yesterday, because the temp it gave me is pretty typical for me - but when it did it again today (same temp - 97.3), I decided to take it again after my snooze button went off... It definately went the full minute this time, but the temp I got (97.5) is probably not accurate because I had been awake, right?? I just don't want to have pre-O temps be charted as lower than they should be since I don't want to have my CL drawn too low!!

What do you think - am I freaking out over nothing? If the therm is getting a steady temp, would it stop early? or does it ALWAYS go the full minute??

Thank you!!!!

candy corn

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. I "might" have experience a temp shift. Of course I won't know for sure for 2 more days but this morning my temp went up by .3 over the last 6 so I'm crossing my fingers that this was O.

southerner - Same thing happened to me this cycle. The last few days were more creamy than EW and I might have had my temp shift this morning, but like you I'll be more comfortable in a few more cycles "hopefully".

Sam

[fsb2005]

FSUSammy: Are you charts updated online? I don't see the temp shift...

candy corn: I've had the same experience a few times with the thermometer - sometimes it grabs a temp so fast. But 97.3 seems like a pretty normal pre-O temp to me -- at least, that's pretty much my average pre-O temp. I'm sure it varies from person to person though...

[FSUSammy]

fsb2005 - Nope my charts online aren't updated. For some reason work blocks me from going to the FF website (strange!). I'll update it tonight when I get home though.

Sam

[FSUSammy]

candy corn - I don't think you need to worry about your therm. Mine does the same thing to me sometimes. As long as you don't get out of bed and doing stuff your temp should be fine. Sometimes when its taking long I'll turn the light on to make sure that the numbers on the therm. are still moving, and they always are.

Sam

[Clattercote]

candy corn - The thermometer will not always go a full minute. What matters when temping is consistency - So if you always take your temp at 6 am, then you're going to get a good pattern for determining O. Likewise (and contrary to what TCOYF says), if you always temp at 6 am, but you night bf or your children pretty consistently cause you to get less than 3 hours of consecutive sleep - that is STILL a consistent pattern of sleep/temping and you should be able to detect O. I guess my point is, since you're looking for an overall pattern, you don't have to worry about whether using a 97.3 temp would make your coverline too low, because your overall coverline might be lower if all your temps are at 6 am than if all your temps are at 8 am - but the pattern will still be there. So at 6 am, my temps are in the 96.6-96.9 range preO, and 97.2-97.6 post O. But at 8 am, my temps are in the 96.9-97.2 range pre-O and 97.3-97.8 at 8 am, due to the fact that my temps are rising during the daytime, even with sleep. My CL in the first case is 97.0, and in the second case is 97.3, but either way - I'll still detect a temp shift if I've been consistent about taking my temp. Make sense?

[Janey]

Well, I officially have my first Weird Chart. :D

B and I traveled over two mountain passes to see his mother & sisters this weekend. I expected O on Saturday or Sunday. Sunday, we left Wenatchee at 2:30 in the afternoon, and drove 15 mph over first one very snowy pass and then we got 9 miles from the summit of the second when they told us they had closed the pass for avalanche danger. So we had to turn around and drive all the way back to MIL's house for the night. 9 hours later with jaw aching from clenched teeth, we arrived back at her house. We left again yesterday at 1pm and got home around 4pm.

That's not really the weird part. The weird part is, I had EWCM all the way up until yesterday. Also unusual is that I'm at CD22 without O, where the past two cycles I have O'ed on CD15 & 16. I wonder if the travel & related stress delayed my O? It didn't seem like it was that much stress... but who knows. I suppose I will see in a few days, but it is an interesting experiment until then.

I am also not sure if I agree with where Ovusoft drew my coverline. The software redrew the coverline since I entered a bunch of temps from the weekend... but it seems like it is drawn really high to me.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, I went ahead and updated my FF chart and I was wondering if FF waits to figure out your coverline till after you've had a few days of high temps or if they'll do it on the first high temp?

Sam

[honeygirl]

Hey ladies, I went ahead and updated my FF chart and I was wondering if FF waits to figure out your coverline till after you've had a few days of high temps or if they'll do it on the first high temp?

Sam

Yup, they usually wait for at least a couple temps to be high. Sometimes they will put the coverline, but then if your temps drop they'll take it away again. It may also depend on which method you have the FF set at (mine's at "advanced").

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies,

Just wanted to update, my temps are still up this morning. We'll see how they are tomorrow.

If they are up again tomorrow does that mean I can go ahead and draw a coverline?



Sam

[fsb2005]

FSUSammy - from my experience (a whopping 2 cycles), FF does wait for a few high temps (I think 3) before drawing your coverline. Maybe they do it earlier if you CM matches up perfectly, but I don't know.

Looking at your chart though, I'm not seeing a sustained thermal shift. There does seem to be some kind of trend upwards, but your temps aren't staying up. So I'm not positive you should draw a coverline.

There is a big difference between the temps on CD 22 and 23, so I can see why you'd want to draw a coverline, but the problem as I see it is that there isn't much of a difference between the temp on CD 24 and some of your "pre-O" temps (e.g. 18, 11, 10).

I guess if you threw out the temp on CD 18 and treated the temps on CD 10 and before as high temps during your period (though really your period was over), then the last two temps would be above the coverline.

Also (and again, guessing here because after 2 cycles I am not an expert), 97.3 doesn't seem like a very high post-O temp, though I know this varies from person to person. And, looking at your last cycle, I guess that was a post-O temp for you.

And actually, your last chart looks a lot like this one - very spiky up and down temps with a general trend upwards. Maybe that's just your temp pattern...

Anyway, those are just my very inexpert thoughts! Feel free to totally disregard, because I am just learning myself. :)

[FSUSammy]

fsb2005 - Thanks for your reply, I thought that the only pre-O temps that mattered were the 6 days right before O.

Sam

[kemaji]

Sam -- I'd wait to draw a coverline until you see tomorrow's temp. You're right, you can call O if you have 3 temps that are .1 degree higher than your six previous temps.

I think what fsb2005 was talking about was keeping your eye on the bigger picture when looking at your chart. Was last cycle your first charting? If so, then there isn't much past history to go on, but for many women, a coverline of 97.3 (which is what yours potentially would be) is low. Once you have a history of charts built up, you'll get a better idea of where your coverline normally is drawn and you may very well have a low coverline and that would be completely normal.

[FSUSammy]

kemaji - Thanks, I was definitely going to wait to see if tomorrow's temps were high before I draw my coverline. This is just my 2nd cycle off and I agree 97.3 is kinda low compared to most of the charts I've seen on here.

Not sure if temperature could be related to blood pressure because I have a condition that causes me to have low blood pressure.

Thanks again!!

[kemaji]

I don't know if low temps are related to blood pressure, but they can be related to low thyroid. I'd be interested to know if blood pressure affects them as well.

[Janey]

Not sure if temperature could be related to blood pressure because I have a condition that causes me to have low blood pressure.
FWIW, my temps seem to be fairly low and I have a tendancy toward high blood pressure.

[motray36]

FSU My temps are generally pretty low, too. When I first went of BCP, they were consistantly in the 68-69's

[southerner]

I haven't even seen my first coverline yet, but I think mine is going to be the same as yours. As long as I have another high temp. tomorrow, I Oed on CD 32, which is late, right? My average cycles for the past six months have been 30-40 days long.

Must read the chapter above coverlines tonight :o

[fsb2005]

FSUSammy - I think in terms of how to draw a coverline, the last 6 temps are what you look at. But I think that's just a tool - overall I think you are looking for a pattern of lower temps pre-O, and higher temps post-O.

If you look at my chart, you see a lower range of temps and then a higher range of temps. Not that everyone has the same pattern of course, but I'm just saying I'm more used to seeing charts with a clearer thermal shift.

It's entirely possible (and likely) that you just show a less obvious shift - and I think this would be normal. But your temps are so up and down that it is hard to see a pattern of lower pre-O temps and higher post-O temps, especially until the cycle is finished. Your temp on CD 23 definitely is one of your highest, but the next day's temp is not much different from what you were seeing before.

Also, it sounds like maybe you and kemaji are using a method other than TCOYF, which maybe calls an O with a less-obvious thermal shift. From what I remember from TCOYF, you look back over the last 6 temps and draw a coverline .2 above the highest temp, and then when you get a temp .1 higher than that for a few days, it's O. That's all from memory though, so I could be off. (ETA: disregard this whole paragraph - see below :-) )

Anyway, mostly I agree with what kemaji said much more concisely than I did - you can use the coverline method to draw a line, but mostly you are looking for a bigger picture of a temperature range showing pre- and post-O temp ranges.

Sorry this got so wordy. And again, I am not by any means experienced here - I'm mostly going from what I've learned in the last 2 months. :-)

ETA Sorry - I totally got the TCOYF coverline method wrong, sorry. I think you and kemaji are right. Now I'm displaying exactly why you should only give my opinion so much weight. ;-)

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Can't update my chart of FF from work but my temp this morning was 97.4 so I guess based on TCOYF rules I should be able to draw a coverline today. I'm kinda leary on doing this just in case this has been a fluke, ya know??? Especially with my last cycle being anovulatory. Should I go ahead and draw it or should I wait a few more days???

Thanks!!!

Sam

[kanga1622]

FSUSammy - I would not yet draw a coverline and not yet have UDD. The lowest that you could draw a coverline is 97.3 and with your temp yesterday at 97.3 I would wait to draw a coverline until you have 3 consecutive temps above 97.3. When TTA you should be at least that conservative in case you are just having a temp spike for some other reason.

[fsb2005]

FSUSammy - I agree with kanga1622 - I'd wait to draw a coverline for a few more days. Especially if you are relying on the chart to TTA.

With this latest temp, though, I think it is looking more promising that you did O. Any other secondary signs of O?

I was wondering whether your last cycle was annovulatory - I saw there was a coverline, but to me it didn't look much like an O (though of course, I'm sure it's possible to have a mild trend upwards instead of a spike)...

[FSUSammy]

Thanks guys. I wasn't going to even think of taking the chance of UDD anytime soon anyways since this is only my 2nd cycle off. I want to have a few more cycles under my belt before I even dared to try that. I'll definitely wait a few more days before drawing a coverline. I'd hate to mess up my chart and find out that it was wrong ya know!

fsb2005 - FF gave me a coverline for my last cycle but like you I don't agree with that. I think it was anov for sure since there really was no detectable spike in temps. Oh and I do have some secondary signs of O, well I think they are secondary signs. I have sore BBs and I think that is a secondary sign.

Sam

[honeygirl]

FSUSammy - My first cycle off BCP was annovulatory also, and FF gave me a coverline. So I went back and manually took off the o date for that month.

[southerner]

FSUSammy, Perhaps I'm missing something about coverlines, but why so anxious to draw one?

[FSUSammy]

southerner - From what I understand by reading TCOYF the coverline helps you figure out when AF is supposed to come because usually your temp will drop below the line. Granted I haven't had a coverline yet and being a newbie I wouldn't know. I'll be waiting a few days anyways to draw it JUST in case this is a false alarm.

Sam

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - It looks like you've now seen a couple days that are totally dry in terms of CM. So it is only at this point that I'd begin looking for a CL. It is looking like fertile CM, for you, is of the creamy variety, despite the fact that you saw one day of EWCM. But clearly a temp shift didn't happen after you saw that, and it did happen in the presence of creamy, so I would count creamy as a fertile CM for you.

As for the CL, I'd probably use the rule of thumb for CD 18 and drop it to the next lowest temp level at 97.0. (This elevated temp may be a pre-O temp spike - some women, including me, consistently get a day of a temp spike 3-5 days before O). So the CL could be set at 97.1 Counting four days of dry up and 3 days of temp shift means that you would have to see continued dry up and continued higher temps for the next two days before UDD.

Having said that, let me also say that if it were me, I'd probably be using Art of NFP's more tailored rules here - I would want to see at least two days of teh temperature being .4 degrees above the highest of the pre-shift six. In this case - low temp would be 97.0 and .4 degrees above would be 97.4

[southerner]

FSUSammy, I think I'm the same way. That creamy CM is what I see before Oing. I think it's safe to say I oed. And it was late in the cycle, I think.

[FSUSammy]

Clattercote - Thanks I definitely agree with you about trying Art of NFP's rules instead, since I rather play it more conservative. Definitely won't be UDD this cycle anyways. I don't trust myself enough yet to understand all of this completely.

[KRL626]

Can I join? I'm a couple of weeks away from my post partum appt. when I will begin charting again. I charted for five months to avoid before getting pg. We had knowingly broken some rules. That will NOT be happening again! So I'll be charting although we'll probably use back up all the time at least for a while. I can't wait to get back to charting my cycles!

CC name: KRL626
Real name: Kate (27)
DH's name: Ricardo (27)
Occupation: Teacher
Married 6/26/04
Started Charting: Nov. 04
TTC: Aug/Sept. 07

[fsb2005]

FSUSammy - it's smart to be conservative about UDD while you're first starting out. But, it is looking to me like you O'd, based on today's temp. :-)

[southerner]

My temp dropped again and FF didn't draw my O and coverline. I'm thinking this drop means AF is coming today or tomorrow :confused: And they'll draw it after she arrives??

You can see on my chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2) where I thought I Oed on CD 16, but my temp. dropped on CD 20. The same thing just happened on CD 32 and dropped again four days later. Today is CD 36.

This is in a way fun to guess what your body is doing :o

[Clattercote]

southerner - Looking at your chart, I don't really see a temp shift at all - the bumpy temps makes this look much more like an annovulatory cycle to me, though we can't know that till after the fact. So I think FF is right to drop out the CL. As for CM - it would seem that you could have Od earlier in the cycle when you experienced EWCM - but with no temp shift, it's not at all wise to assume that. So, it's no wonder that we can't figure out what your body's doing - it doesn't know either!

[Clattercote]

Welcome, KLR626! I hope you find the board helpful!

[honeygirl]

Southerner - I agree with Clattercote, unfortunately it looks like you have a classic annovulatory cycle. As a result, AF could come at any time now, or wait for a few more days/weeks, etc. It is hard to predict AF during an annovulatory cycle. Have you read what TCOYF says about such cycles or looked at the examples in the book? I can't remember if you have TCOYF, but if you do those chapters would be helpful.

Sorry and here's hoping that the next cycle gets closer to "normal".

[AHammer]

Hmm -- I think I might be having an annov cycle, too. I'm on CD 27 and no clear O yet. In my past charts I always O'd on CD 23. The FCM was just like normal, but it's starting to clear up just a little bit, and with no thermal shift.

What do y'all think? Too early to call an annov cycle?

[southerner]

AHammer, I'm taking a wild stab at your chart here. I'm very inexperienced at this point, but I will try. Maybe you Oed on CD 21 (with that temp shift) or haven't yet at all, not sure. But, the drop on CD 26 is still above CD 19 & 20, which is what makes me wonder if in fact you did O :confused: I'm probably way off with that guess though :rolleyes:

I wanted to try to answer a question, so I'm not just asking them all the time:o

honeygirl & clattercote, I did read TCOYF annov. info. It was helpful, but it still left my with lots of questions, thoughts, etc. I have reason to believe that maybe I don't O on a regular cycle, if at all. I've had "normalish" cycles, but I only have one ovary. I'm hoping this annov. cycle is not an every cycle/often occurence.

Welcome, KLR626!

[honeygirl]

Hi ladies, hope everyone had a fun weekend.

Just wanted to check in re: my chart. I'm on CD26, 7DPO, I think. I thought that my chart was looking more "pretty" this cycle (ie- more normal), what do you think? I'm THRILLED that I haven't had any major spotting yet past O, just the tiniest bit today. I've been taking baby aspirin each day after O, so maybe it's helping?

Anyway here's my chart: chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424)

I've also been trying hard to follow the TTA rules. So, would you agree that I o'ed on CD19?

Thanks and have a wonderful week.

-Anne

[southerner]

honeygirl, Looks like you did to me. Good news about the spotting.

[EmilyBronte]

I have had the oddest month and would like feedback. I always keep a paper chart and just added my info to FF so you all could see it. Specifically I'm looking for any thoughts on spotting on days 10-12 and day 17. I only had a slight amount of spotting in the pm on each of these days, and each incidence of spotting happened on the same day as either Eggwhite or Creamy CM. I don't usually spot unless it's a day before or after AF, so this is odd to me.

Also, I generally have a clear post O temp shift and this time I had one temp that dropped back below my coverline. Since I don't usually deal with this I'm not sure which day to count as an O. FF calls it on day 19, but I'm thinking maybe day 21? Either way my O date doesn't coincide at ALL with my CM. I almost always O either on day 15, 16, or 17.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Here is my chart. (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/f0577)

[wonderpup262]

Hi everybody, I'd like to join the group, if I may. I went off the pill last month after being on it for more than 11 years. So far so good! But I have a fair amount of anxiety about resuming normal periods again. When I was a teenager, my periods were long, heavy, painful and completely sucky. I'm hoping that it won't be so bad now, but I really have no idea what to expect.

DH and I haven't decided yet when we'll TTC. Emotionally and financially, we're ready... but professionally, not so much. I'm in an evening MBA program that I really ought to finish before we have a baby... but that's at least 2.5 years away, and I don't think I can wait that long! And DH is at a pretty pivotal point in his career and doesn't have a lot of flexibility at this point. He wants to be heavily involved in providing hands-on care for our kids, and we think that might be more achievable in a year or two.

So that's my story! Here's my info:

wonderpup262
Carrie: 30
DH: 30
Occupation: full time product manager, part time MBA student
Married: Oct. 03
Started charting: Jan. 06
TTC: We should wait til 2008... but can we hold out that long?

[tlew12778]

Anyway here's my chart: chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424)

I've also been trying hard to follow the TTA rules. So, would you agree that I o'ed on CD19?

Thanks and have a wonderful week.

-Anne
Temp wise I would say CD22. Regardless you are past your fertile phase now. The reason FF called CD19 is bc of the EWCM and the subsequent dry up.

[Clattercote]

AHammer - I wouldn't call it annov, yet. Your temps are staying in your general pre-O range - at this stage, I'd say O is just delayed. Time will tell, as usual :)


Honeygirl - I'd say CD 21 is your probable O date, with a fall-back temp on CD 22. CD 21 is when a shift and CM coincide. Cd 19 is just too early. I'd set the CL at 97.6

EmilyBronte - It does sound like it's been a weird cycle for you - but weird cycles happen every once in a while, either due to unknown stress or just because our bodies like to mess with us. (I usually O on CD 18-20), but had one cycle last year that was O on CD 8 - no known reason - it was a weird and short cycle. (NOTE to all newbies - this is why consistency in charting is important, because sometimes our bodies do odd things. You won't always O in the same way!) It sounds to me like the spotting is probably O related, since it happened on days when you had more fertile CM. I think you do have a temp shift with one fall back temp. That happens sometimes (see honeygirl's chart).... I think your temp shift does start on CD 20, though you do have to wait an extra day because of the fall back temp the next day. But CD 20 coincides with CM dry up as well.

Welcome, wonderpup!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, got a question. Since I'm pretty sure I O'd this cycle I would expect AF sometime between the end of this week and next week. Here's my question, DH and I are going to Vegas in 2 weeks (flying from Florida). What should I do with taking my temps? I currently take my temp daily at 5:15 (due to my work schedule) and if I were to chart at the same time in Vegas I'd have to chart around 2:15am while getting 3 hours of rest which I don't see happening easily.

Any suggestions???

Sam

[kemaji]

Updated to here. Welcome to KRL626 and wonderpup262!

Sam -- I think it depends on your comfort level. I temp at 5:30am, so when I travel over anything more than one time zone, I usually don't temp because the time difference does affect me. For some people it doesn't and they would just temp at 5:30, whatever time zone they happen to be in.

It sounds to me like you'll be fairly early in your cycle and your trip probable won't coincide with your fertile range, however if you need to, just use protection until you're sure you've O'd.

EmilyBronte -- I agree with Clatter. I get fall back temps every now and then, just because.

***

I'm just trucking along. My cycle is about as normal as it gets for me. (Famous last words, right?) I had a small temp shift today and I'm hoping that means I O'ed. Both DH and I woke up feeling kind of crappy yesterday morning, but I think that was due to something we ate the night before and not anything that would affect my temp.

[honeygirl]

Thanks to southerner, tlew12778 and Clattercote. Big bummer again this month if I O'd on CD22. I really thought I had O'd on CD19 b/c of the EWCM and temp drop. Dammit I need to stop trusting FF. Sadly if we O'd on CD22 I did not follow the rules then. :( This is 2 months in a row where I messed up. Maybe we'd better go back to only PDD. I just thought I was safe b/c of the dry up, etc.

Welcome to KRL626 and wonderpup262, my only advice is to follow the rules closely! :)

[Leilynne]

Hi everyone. Nice to see I am still on the roster even though I havn't posted in over a year. Things got really crazy around here and when the group switched over from WC I really didn't follow. I've gotten really lazy about the TTA rules however and since DH and I really don't want children I'm back to get some help from you ladies again. I don't recognize alot of names so I'm guessing alot of people that started charting a few years ago with me have moved on to TTC, Oh well I'm sure the newbies are very nice :p .

[Clattercote]

Leilynne - I hope we're nice, too! :) I remember you from the WC board - welcome back.


ETA Honeygirl - I was looking at your charts again because of your post above - and I'm wondering about the spotting you're noting. It makes me suspect possible progesterone deficiency - have you asked about that?

[honeygirl]

ETA Honeygirl - I was looking at your charts again because of your post above - and I'm wondering about the spotting you're noting. It makes me suspect possible progesterone deficiency - have you asked about that?

Since the last cycle I've been hearing more about progesterone from other posters, family, etc. I haven't asked my current doctor (who I don't trust at this point anyway b/c she's incompetent), but will ask my new one (after I move in April). Is progesterone only a perscription? I wonder if I can get it over-the-counter.

I've spotted again the last 2 days, so if my ovulation was on CD22 then it's not much more improved over the last month. :( Part of me just keeps hoping that my body will work this stuff out on its own. I was pretty sure that I couldn't get pregnant with all the spotting, but Lawgirl did. :) So now I have some new hope for when it's time to TTC (and a little fear again this cycle b/c of our mess up).

Thanks for asking Clattercote.

ETA - I decided to go ahead and call my doctor. I saw in another thread that doctors can do testing at 7DPO to look at progesterone levels, and that's tomorrow (if I o'd on CD22). I told the nurse everything and she said they'd get back to me later. I also told them I *could* be pregnant (bummer) b/c of my chart-mishap on CD22.

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - Yes - I took a test at 7DPO for progesterone levels - there is a cream that you can get prescribed from the Women's International Pharmacy, which is what I take. It's natural progesterone (ie the form found in your body) and not plant progesterone, which is what a lot of the creams are - from what my doc has said, the plant progesterones are less able to be absorbed by your body and so are less effective than the natural stuff - Here's a link in case you want to find out more from their perspective - It could help if you want to talk to your doc about it. http://www.womensinternational.com/

[HisSpicy]

Nothing much happening with me, I just realized I hadn't posted in a while, so I thought I'd say hi. :) Today is CD1 of my 6th cycle charting! Can't believe I'm on 6 already. For some reason the Fertility Friend keeps giving me "VIP trials" which I don't really care about, since I use paper mainly. But, it meant I could overlay all 5 previous cycles, and I was so excited because when you look at them like that, you can totally see a general pattern- even when they range from 27 to 37 days. It's all so pretty and wonderful, who ever thought birth control could make you so happy! :p

[motray36]

Hi Everyone - nothing new here, just posting because for some reason I'm not getting email notification.

Welcome to KRL626 and wonderpup262!

[EmilyBronte]

Thanks, Clatter and kemaji for helping out with my chart. The midcycle spotting and the temp drop really threw me for a loop. "Consistent" for me is, unfortunately, not getting up at the same time to temp everyday (I can thank my 13 month-old and my attempt to workout before he gets up 2 days a week for that!) but since it's normal for me I count it as consistent. Anyway, thanks!

[southerner]

Sometimes I wake up a little before time to take my temp. Like this morning, I woke up at 6:45, but don't normally temp. until 7:30. I was able to fall back to sleep and took my temp at the right time. I'm having AF right now and my temp jumped 1.5 degrees this morning. Is that b/c I woke up and went back to bed? When I wake up early like that, should I temp, then go back to sleep? Last period, my temp didn't jump like that, so I'm wondering if this had something to do with it. FTR, I wake up before time and go back to bed fairly often. Do you think I should just take my temp when I'm up that first time? What's the max for time I should do this, if so?

[FSUSammy]

southerner - Yes when you wake up like that take your temp right away. I'd take it again at your normal time and then record the one that fits more in line with the rest of your temps.

Sam

[southerner]

oh no :eek:

I've been doing it "wrong." Maybe I did O last month :confused: So, what's the earliest I should take it?

[SQ2]

I've always thought that as long as you don't get out of bed to go to the bathroom and go back to sleep it shouldn't affect your temp. I tend not to worry if the time is off by an hour or so since Ovusoft adjusts the temp for me anyways. But I'm a newbie so who knows? :confused:

[kemaji]

southerner -- If you frequently wake before your temping time and go back to sleep, your body is probably used to that, so it shouldn't* make much difference in your temperature.

If it makes you more comfortable, you could just start temping earlier, and fall back asleep afterwards. I do that because DH gets up between 5:30 and 5:45 every morning and I don't get up until 7. He is loud enough that he qualifies as a disturbance, lol. :)

If when you wake up the first time, you get up, go to the bathroom, get a glass of water, I'd suggest temping then and note the time difference in your chart because that would definitely qualify as a disturbance.

* Of course, everyone is different and until you have a better idea, I would note in your chart morning that you woke up prior to your normal temping time so you can get a better idea of how your chart is affected.

[EmilyBronte]

southerner If you look at my chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/f0577), you'll see that while my wakeup times are pretty much all over the place there is still an obvious shift. I temp anywhere from 6:15am-9am. But it's normal for me. I never adjust my temps I just go with whatever it says because of it being normal for me.

[honeygirl]

Quick FF question:

Do you ladies use the "advanced" or "FAM" methods of detection? I've been using advanced, but I noticed that if I use FAM then my O date moves to what I really think it should be.

Thoughts?

[southerner]

SQ2, I haven't even ventured into temp adjusting yet :rolleyes:

kemaji, Thank you, that's a great suggestion. The thought of having an earlier temp time make me shudder :( (well, mostly b/c of weekends).

EmilyBronte, Such a pretty chart. I hope I see a sustained temp jump like that this cycle. I'd say I do this (wake up and go back to sleep until my temp time) 2-3 week.

[flygirl]

honeygirl, I've actually used both depending on which one looks the most correct. If you know your body well enough by now, it's really just a matter of making your chart look pretty :). FAM detects based on the six-previous-temps rule: O is drawn when you have a clear temp-shift (.2 or .3) over the previous 6 temps, and the CL is drawn .1 deg. above the highest of those 6. Advanced uses CM & FF's "experience" with charts and is often a bit kooky. The "experience" is only as good as the charters, so I take that with a grain of salt.

Southerner, I just want to reiterate what kemaji said about finding out what affects you more: undisturbed sleep or temping at the same time. And that if you usually wake ahead of time, your body is probably used to the disturbance and it won't have that much of an effect day over day. Taking your temp twice is OK when you're trying to determine your pattern initially, but don't make it a habit. Once you decide whether to temp when you wake or temp at the same time, just temp once.

Also, temps are notoriously unstable during AF, which means you can't rely on a previous cycle to determine a pattern :).

[southerner]

flygirl, I didn't record the times I woke up and went back to sleep last month, but I will start to note them now. What should I look for to know whether the sleep disturbance make a difference? Or that I do it often enough that my body is "used to it" and temps aren't effected. I feel so annoying for asking all these questions, sorry!

[kemaji]

southerner -- you want to look for a consistent pre/post O pattern. That's why once you know what your body's pattern is, you'll know whether you have to temp when you first wake up or at your normal temping time. G